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#1
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Shop wiring
Finishing up my 'woodshop' area within my larger shop. Size is about 12'x36'.
Will be moving in the following equipment: Table saw, Radial arm saw, 8" jointer, 5HP Planer moulder, chop saw with stand, 6' workbench, 12" bandsaw, vacuum dust collector & 14 used kitchen cabinets. Want to do some pre-wiring even though I don't know the final layout. All the walls are 7/16" oriented strandboard, painted white. Will hang 8 4-tube flourescents. Lights will all be on one switch, however like in my other shop areas, I install pull (string pull) switches on every fixture so I am only using light where needed. Will be doing all my wiring in surface mounted conduit. Got the knack of bending it and got loads of 12ga stranded wire on the cheap at garage sales. Anyway, I'm tempted to put 4plex outlets say about every 5 feet along all the walls. Outlets would be about 36" off the floor thereby being below any cabinets but above typical counter height. I also plan to pull some 10ga through some of the conduit, drop off some extra empty 4x4 boxes wired for 220v. The moulder runs better on 220 and I'll probably need 3-5000 watts of electrical heat. Obviously the table saw will sit somewhere in the middle of the floor and I will have an extra run couduit along the length of the ceiling ready for 220v. Short of doing a detailed layout of all the equipment I'm hoping the above will leave me with opportunity to change my mind many times. NOTE: I'm not an avid woodworker but merely trying to make a separation between my metal machining equipment and this messy 'wood' stuff. All comments and suggestions appreciated. Ivan Vegvary |
#2
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Shop wiring
Check your receptacle heights over your kitchen counters. I would imagine a
workbench or surface would want to be similar, in height. If you grab a counter top it may have a backsplash on it too and your receptacle height may be behind it. ------------- "Ivan Vegvary" wrote in message news:3535186.190.1322543088421.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prnh1... Finishing up my 'woodshop' area within my larger shop. Size is about 12'x36'. Will be moving in the following equipment: Table saw, Radial arm saw, 8" jointer, 5HP Planer moulder, chop saw with stand, 6' workbench, 12" bandsaw, vacuum dust collector & 14 used kitchen cabinets. Want to do some pre-wiring even though I don't know the final layout. All the walls are 7/16" oriented strandboard, painted white. Will hang 8 4-tube flourescents. Lights will all be on one switch, however like in my other shop areas, I install pull (string pull) switches on every fixture so I am only using light where needed. Will be doing all my wiring in surface mounted conduit. Got the knack of bending it and got loads of 12ga stranded wire on the cheap at garage sales. Anyway, I'm tempted to put 4plex outlets say about every 5 feet along all the walls. Outlets would be about 36" off the floor thereby being below any cabinets but above typical counter height. I also plan to pull some 10ga through some of the conduit, drop off some extra empty 4x4 boxes wired for 220v. The moulder runs better on 220 and I'll probably need 3-5000 watts of electrical heat. Obviously the table saw will sit somewhere in the middle of the floor and I will have an extra run couduit along the length of the ceiling ready for 220v. Short of doing a detailed layout of all the equipment I'm hoping the above will leave me with opportunity to change my mind many times. NOTE: I'm not an avid woodworker but merely trying to make a separation between my metal machining equipment and this messy 'wood' stuff. All comments and suggestions appreciated. Ivan Vegvary |
#3
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Shop wiring
On Mon, 28 Nov 2011 21:04:48 -0800 (PST), Ivan Vegvary
wrote: Anyway, I'm tempted to put 4plex outlets say about every 5 feet along all the walls. Outlets would be about 36" off the floor I'd put them at 48". My workbench is about 36" or so and I want them to be above it. If you plan to lean any sheet stock against the wall, make them 50" high. |
#4
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Shop wiring
Agreed. Put the outlets well above the workbench surface. You want
to minimize contact of any items/tools, on the surface, with any cords being plugged into the outlets. Installing upper cabinets above any workbenchs or other lower cabinets? Put the outlets just below the upper cabinets. You may want to, later, consider installing lights on the underside of upper cabinets. Do any wiring prep, now, if convenient. Sonny |
#5
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Shop wiring
On Tue, 29 Nov 2011 05:53:26 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Mon, 28 Nov 2011 21:04:48 -0800 (PST), Ivan Vegvary wrote: Anyway, I'm tempted to put 4plex outlets say about every 5 feet along all the walls. Outlets would be about 36" off the floor I'd put them at 48". My workbench is about 36" or so and I want them to be above it. If you plan to lean any sheet stock against the wall, make them 50" high. I'm with Ed. 4' spacing and 52" above the floor (bottom of outlet), so you have clearance for sheet goods. I ran 2 240v outlets, too. Two together on one long wall, one on the other long wall. 75' of 10/3 extension cording became three 25' pigtails on table saw, bandsaw, and DC. It can be run overhead or behind the scenes as needed. -- In an industrial society which confuses work and productivity, the necessity of producing has always been an enemy of the desire to create. -- Raoul Vaneigem |
#6
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Shop wiring
Larry Jaques wrote:
I'm with Ed. 4' spacing and 52" above the floor (bottom of outlet), so you have clearance for sheet goods. I ran 2 240v outlets, too. Two together on one long wall, one on the other long wall. 75' of 10/3 extension cording became three 25' pigtails on table saw, bandsaw, and DC. It can be run overhead or behind the scenes as needed. Yupper - Extension cord is the cheapest way to make power cords that size. It's common to see 10ga cords on sale at HD or HF, and it saves a lot over buying the SJ and ends. -- -Mike- |
#7
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Shop wiring
All comments and suggestions appreciated. Ivan Vegvary Sounds like a great setup. For my recent build-out I ran some cables overhead (I have a 30' high barn roof/celling) so I could run cords and drop in from overhead to machines out in the middle of the floor. I added a few extra loops of cord hanging at the machines so I can unfurl it and roll the machine around the shop when needed. |
#8
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Shop wiring
Ivan Vegvary writes:
Finishing up my 'woodshop' area within my larger shop. Size is about 12'x3= 6'. =20 Will be doing all my wiring in surface mounted conduit. Got the knack of b= ending it and got loads of 12ga stranded wire on the cheap at garage sales.= Hmm. Not many homeowners use #12 THHN, nor do they use stranded as a rule. Are you sure the wire wasn't *hot*? The most useful outlet in my shop is the 25' retractable cube-tap mounted to the ceiling in the center of the shop. You don't mention a subpanel. With the number of 240v loads you have, you'll probably need one. The heater should be on a separate circuit. You might be able to get away with the TS, Jointer and shaper on a single circuit so long as you don't use them all at the same time. (the shaper will require a 30A branch circuit (as will the heater if you go 5KVA). scott |
#9
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Shop wiring
Scott Lurndal wrote:
You don't mention a subpanel. With the number of 240v loads you have, you'll probably need one. Not sure why you assume that Scott. The number of 240v loads has nothing at all to do with the need for a sub-panel. The heater should be on a separate circuit. You might be able to get away with the TS, Jointer and shaper on a single circuit so long as you don't use them all at the same time. (the shaper will require a 30A branch circuit (as will the heater if you go 5KVA). Again - not sure he's suggesting putting everything on one circuit. -- -Mike- |
#10
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Shop wiring
On 11/29/2011 10:06 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
Scott Lurndal wrote: You don't mention a subpanel. With the number of 240v loads you have, you'll probably need one. Not sure why you assume that Scott. The number of 240v loads has nothing at all to do with the need for a sub-panel. I think that with a devoted shop and all of that equipment that while not completely necessary a subpanel located in the shop would be a very nice convenience. |
#11
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Shop wiring
On 11/30/2011 7:43 AM, knuttle wrote:
On 11/29/2011 10:06 PM, Mike Marlow wrote: Scott Lurndal wrote: You don't mention a subpanel. With the number of 240v loads you have, you'll probably need one. Not sure why you assume that Scott. The number of 240v loads has nothing at all to do with the need for a sub-panel. I think that with a devoted shop and all of that equipment that while not completely necessary a subpanel located in the shop would be a very nice convenience. Assumptions being made that perhaps are not warranted. He said this is basically a 12x36 partitioning off of his main shop. Could it be that the entire shop is serviced by its own service panel? In my case, a much smaller shop within my garage, I have a 100A service panel fed right from the meter can - no sub-panels and three 240v circuit in addition to everything else. |
#12
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Shop wiring
I think that with a devoted shop and all of that equipment that while not completely necessary a subpanel located in the shop would be a very nice convenience. Keith, I have an existing sub-panel right around the corner at the end of the 36' space. HOWEVER, you are right, it would be convenient and much easier to run a single feed to a more centrally located panel. Would also probably save on wire costs. Thanks! Ivan Vegvary |
#13
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Shop wiring
Dear confused,
The shop has its own service (3phase) and already has two sub-panels. However, in the interest of saving wire I will install an additional sub-panel within the area. I would rather penetrate the area once with, say, 1" or 1-1/2" conduit than penetrate four or five times with half inch conduit. Of course I could simply put in a 12" or so junction box, but gosh, panels are almost less expensive than boxes. About $30 at HD. I already have tons of compatible breakers. Thanks for your comments. Ivan Vegvary |
#14
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Shop wiring
"Mike Marlow" writes:
Scott Lurndal wrote: You don't mention a subpanel. With the number of 240v loads you have, you'll probably need one. Not sure why you assume that Scott. The number of 240v loads has nothing at all to do with the need for a sub-panel. If i recall the code correctly, each 240v appliance must be on a separate branch circuit. In a garage shop, one could probably get away with wiring two or three outlets on a 240v branch circuit, but it would not be code compliant. Given that the majority of residential service entrance panels are pretty close to full, a subpanel is usually required in these cases, if only to reduce the amount of AWG 10 needed for the shaper and heater. scott |
#15
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Shop wiring
In news:3535186.190.1322543088421.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prnh1,
Ivan Vegvary typed: Finishing up my 'woodshop' area within my larger shop. Size is about 12'x36'. Will be moving in the following equipment: Table saw, Radial arm saw, 8" jointer, 5HP Planer moulder, chop saw with stand, 6' workbench, 12" bandsaw, vacuum dust collector & 14 used kitchen cabinets. Want to do some pre-wiring even though I don't know the final layout. All the walls are 7/16" oriented strandboard, painted white. Will hang 8 4-tube flourescents. Lights will all be on one switch, however like in my other shop areas, I install pull (string pull) switches on every fixture so I am only using light where needed. Will be doing all my wiring in surface mounted conduit. Got the knack of bending it and got loads of 12ga stranded wire on the cheap at garage sales. Anyway, I'm tempted to put 4plex outlets say about every 5 feet along all the walls. Outlets would be about 36" off the floor thereby being below any cabinets but above typical counter height. I also plan to pull some 10ga through some of the conduit, drop off some extra empty 4x4 boxes wired for 220v. The moulder runs better on 220 and I'll probably need 3-5000 watts of electrical heat. Obviously the table saw will sit somewhere in the middle of the floor and I will have an extra run couduit along the length of the ceiling ready for 220v. Short of doing a detailed layout of all the equipment I'm hoping the above will leave me with opportunity to change my mind many times. NOTE: I'm not an avid woodworker but merely trying to make a separation between my metal machining equipment and this messy 'wood' stuff. All comments and suggestions appreciated. Ivan Vegvary If I might add a couple thoughts: -- Well labeled for serving breakers -- Each box with 220 in it can split off to single 110 so if you ever need to ad a 110, it should be easy to do if there are enough 220's. -- Single, Dedicated breaker or breaker pair for ALL equipment. Never allow a light to go out if a tool pops a breaker on either 110 or 220. -- Use no 14 ga; 12 or heavier throughout. -- Keep good track of your neutrals & how they pair with their hots; do not spread them out! -- You might be too far along for this once, but have a MAINS switch to the shop that will kill ALL power in the shop in case any get left on accidentally. I used a couple of 4-pole shop switches for this except for lights; they can be turned on/off independently. Same for garage door opener, which power runs thru the shop. -- Don't forget well placed GFCs. Thin wall conduit is an excellent choice and makes maintenance later on a breeze! Plus it's not very expensive. Do not rely on it for an earth ground though; still use a third green/bare wire for all equipment. A fish tape s worth its weight in gold. Good luck! Twayne` |
#16
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Shop wiring
Scott Lurndal wrote:
If i recall the code correctly, each 240v appliance must be on a separate branch circuit. In a garage shop, one could probably get away with wiring two or three outlets on a 240v branch circuit, but it would not be code compliant. Not true at all. Think about baseboard heaters - there can be many (depending upon total load) on one branch circuit.). Your recollection is incorrect. Happens to all of us. Just ask me... Given that the majority of residential service entrance panels are pretty close to full, a subpanel is usually required in these cases, if only to reduce the amount of AWG 10 needed for the shaper and heater. I'm not sure that the majority of residential services are pretty close to full - and I've done a lot of add-on and rewire work, I'll at least give you this point. The issue is that though, and not one of the number of 240v runs. That's all I was trying to say earlier. As to the amount of 10ga runs - that will not change regardless of whether there is a subpanel or not. As long as the primary panel has space, and it is convenient to do so, then a run from it is every bit as proper as a run to a sub-panel. Sub panels accomodate increased need for branches and nothing else. Purely a space for the breakers thing. -- -Mike- |
#17
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Shop wiring
Twayne wrote:
If I might add a couple thoughts: -- Well labeled for serving breakers Yup - the best, and the most overlooked thought... -- Each box with 220 in it can split off to single 110 so if you ever need to ad a 110, it should be easy to do if there are enough 220's Sorry, but that does not make any sense. The word "box" becomes debulous. Maybe you can expand on what you're really trying to say. . -- Single, Dedicated breaker or breaker pair for ALL equipment. For some equipment - but why for "all" equipment? It would be foolish to put a single breaker for everything to be used in a shop. Never allow a light to go out if a tool pops a breaker on either 110 or 220. Agreed - never allow a tool to create darkness. -- Use no 14 ga; 12 or heavier throughout. A man after my own heart! But - that's a preference, and not a requirement. -- Keep good track of your neutrals & how they pair with their hots; do not spread them out! That is simple electrical code. -- You might be too far along for this once, but have a MAINS switch to the shop that will kill ALL power in the shop in case any get left on accidentally. There is good reason for this (sometimes), but it's not that universal of a requirement. Why do this? I used a couple of 4-pole shop switches for this except for lights; they can be turned on/off independently. Same for garage door opener, which power runs thru the shop. -- Don't forget well placed GFCs. Well, that makes a convenience for you - though it does not constitute a mandate or even a code compliant, or a real safety requirement. If not well thought through, it may not even make a safe design. Not suggesting your idea is unsafe, just commenting on the fact that simple statements like this are often unfounded, do not comply with code, and do not really offer any safety benefit. There's an awful lot of needless stuff done by people who think it will add to wiring safety, which in fact do no such thing. Thin wall conduit is an excellent choice and makes maintenance later on a breeze! Plus it's not very expensive. Do not rely on it for an earth ground though; still use a third green/bare wire for all equipment. A fish tape s worth its weight in gold. Agreed! -- -Mike- |
#18
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Shop wiring
"Ivan Vegvary" wrote: Will be moving in the following equipment: Table saw, Radial arm saw, 8" jointer, 5HP Planer moulder, chop saw with stand, 6' workbench, 12" bandsaw, vacuum dust collector & 14 used kitchen cabinets. ------------------------------------ Is that 5 HP moulder a single phase or a three phase load? Lew |
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