Hey Guys:

Thought I'd share an experience I had this weekend while doing some work at
my mom's house. Had to install a grab bar in her bathtub - as well as some
other tasks and a *ton* of cleaning that only a few short years ago, no one
would ever have thought would be the case. The world's number one neat
freak, queen of clean - and we're scrubbing floors, washing down cupboards,
and all of the things you never thought would be necessary. But enough of
that...

I had to install this grab bar in my mom's bathroom, which is tiled from
floor to ceiling. I knew I'd have to use hollow wall fasteners, I just
picked up what Home Depot had. I was a bit concerned for drilling through
the tile without chipping it, and at a point I remembered that I had a cheap
set of Harbor Freight glass bits that I had purchased for something that my
wife wanted me to do - that of course, I have not got around to doing yet...

Anyway - I grabbed the as-yet-unused set of bits and headed down the road.
I've never used this kind of bit before, so I really did not know what to
expect. At all.

Well, not one to chicken my way into new adventures, I chucked a bit and
laid it into the tile - carefully. To my complete surprise, as the bit
started to turn, it immediately began to work its way in. No walk, no
problems. The thing simply began to drill its way in exactly where I placed
it. It ate its way into that tile as if it were a hot knife through butter.
Perfect holes every time. Can I say that I was impressed?

Maybe some of you have used this kind of bit before, but I had not and I
have to say (again...), I was impressed. Quick, simple work. Clean holes -
no chips.

Just thought this might be worth passing along.

--

-Mike-

In article ,
"Mike Marlow" wrote:

Hey Guys:

Thought I'd share an experience I had this weekend while doing some work at
my mom's house. Had to install a grab bar in her bathtub - as well as some
other tasks and a *ton* of cleaning that only a few short years ago, no one
would ever have thought would be the case. The world's number one neat
freak, queen of clean - and we're scrubbing floors, washing down cupboards,
and all of the things you never thought would be necessary. But enough of
that...

I had to install this grab bar in my mom's bathroom, which is tiled from
floor to ceiling. I knew I'd have to use hollow wall fasteners, I just
picked up what Home Depot had. I was a bit concerned for drilling through
the tile without chipping it, and at a point I remembered that I had a cheap
set of Harbor Freight glass bits that I had purchased for something that my
wife wanted me to do - that of course, I have not got around to doing yet...

Anyway - I grabbed the as-yet-unused set of bits and headed down the road.
I've never used this kind of bit before, so I really did not know what to
expect. At all.

Well, not one to chicken my way into new adventures, I chucked a bit and
laid it into the tile - carefully. To my complete surprise, as the bit
started to turn, it immediately began to work its way in. No walk, no
problems. The thing simply began to drill its way in exactly where I placed
it. It ate its way into that tile as if it were a hot knife through butter.
Perfect holes every time. Can I say that I was impressed?

Maybe some of you have used this kind of bit before, but I had not and I
have to say (again...), I was impressed. Quick, simple work. Clean holes -
no chips.

Just thought this might be worth passing along.

Yes! I had the same experience putting a grab bar in our bath room
through the tile.

Chuck P.

On Mon, 31 Oct 2011 17:14:25 -0700, Pilgrim
wrote:

In article ,
"Mike Marlow" wrote:

Hey Guys:

Thought I'd share an experience I had this weekend while doing some work at
my mom's house. Had to install a grab bar in her bathtub - as well as some
other tasks and a *ton* of cleaning that only a few short years ago, no one
would ever have thought would be the case. The world's number one neat
freak, queen of clean - and we're scrubbing floors, washing down cupboards,
and all of the things you never thought would be necessary. But enough of
that...

I had to install this grab bar in my mom's bathroom, which is tiled from
floor to ceiling. I knew I'd have to use hollow wall fasteners, I just
picked up what Home Depot had. I was a bit concerned for drilling through
the tile without chipping it, and at a point I remembered that I had a cheap
set of Harbor Freight glass bits that I had purchased for something that my
wife wanted me to do - that of course, I have not got around to doing yet...

Anyway - I grabbed the as-yet-unused set of bits and headed down the road.
I've never used this kind of bit before, so I really did not know what to
expect. At all.

Well, not one to chicken my way into new adventures, I chucked a bit and
laid it into the tile - carefully. To my complete surprise, as the bit
started to turn, it immediately began to work its way in. No walk, no
problems. The thing simply began to drill its way in exactly where I placed
it. It ate its way into that tile as if it were a hot knife through butter.
Perfect holes every time. Can I say that I was impressed?

Maybe some of you have used this kind of bit before, but I had not and I
have to say (again...), I was impressed. Quick, simple work. Clean holes -
no chips.

Yeah, the bits are amazingly aggressive while being gentle to the
vitrified surface of the tile. I was absolutely (and happily)
dumbfounded the first time I used one. Mine is the spearpoint, like
this http://goo.gl/JEOkn , not like the bits HF now sells.
http://www.harborfreight.com/catalog.../view/id/8180/
I think I'd prefer the smooth, rounded edge as it cut in. It looks
safer.


Just thought this might be worth passing along.

Yes! I had the same experience putting a grab bar in our bath room
through the tile.

Guys, use a stud finder and ALWAYS put at least one screw into it on
each end when you put up a grab bar. Having a grab-bar come off in
your hand is actually worse than just slipping in the shower, and it
can be deadly. If you can't get behind the tiled wall to shore it up
with backing tubafores/tubatwelves, drill into the studs. Using moly
bolts will end up pulling all the tile off the wall in a short time,
as soon as someone needs it.

Also, be sure to use half a tube of silicone gel behind each screw
plate so every screw is entirely gooped. It gets wet in there.

--
Inside every older person is a younger person wondering WTF happened.

On Oct 31, 11:58*pm, Larry Jaques
wrote:


Guys, use a stud finder and ALWAYS put at least one screw into it on
each end when you put up a grab bar. Having a grab-bar come off in
your hand is actually worse than just slipping in the shower, and it
can be deadly. *If you can't get behind the tiled wall to shore it up
with backing tubafores/tubatwelves, drill into the studs. *Using moly
bolts will end up pulling all the tile off the wall in a short time,
as soon as someone needs it.

Absolutely. Good advice, and I have installed hundreds over the years.

Also, be sure to use half a tube of silicone gel behind each screw
plate so every screw is entirely gooped. It gets wet in there.


Again good advice.

--
Inside every older person is a younger person wondering WTF happened.

Larry Jaques wrote:


Inside every older person is a younger person wondering WTF
happened.
---------------------------------------
Now that is funny.

Lew

Larry Jaques wrote:

If you can't get behind the tiled wall to shore it up
with backing tubafores/tubatwelves, drill into the studs. Using moly
bolts will end up pulling all the tile off the wall in a short time,
as soon as someone needs it.
----------------------------------
My preference is to use coarse thread, self tapping stainless screws
with
3M_4200 as a caulk.

Silicone is the bottom of the bucket as a caulk IMHO.
---------------------------------------

"Robatoy" wrote:

Absolutely. Good advice, and I have installed hundreds over the years.

Also, be sure to use half a tube of silicone gel behind each screw
plate so every screw is entirely gooped. It gets wet in there.


Again good advice.


Lew

On Nov 1, 2:20*am, "Lew Hodgett" wrote:
Larry Jaques wrote:
If you can't get behind the tiled wall to shore it up
with backing tubafores/tubatwelves, drill into the studs. Using moly
bolts will end up pulling all the tile off the wall in a short time,
as soon as someone needs it.

----------------------------------
My preference is to use coarse thread, self tapping stainless screws
with
3M_4200 as a caulk.

Silicone is the bottom of the bucket as a caulk IMHO.
---------------------------------------

"Robatoy" wrote:

Absolutely. Good advice, and I have installed hundreds over the years.



Also, be sure to use half a tube of silicone gel behind each screw
plate so every screw is entirely gooped. It gets wet in there.

Again good advice.

Lew

In many tests that I have done over the years, mounting stainless
sinks UNDER countertops made of different materials, it have become
obvious that there is a HUGE difference in qualities of silicon. HUGE.

On Mon, 31 Oct 2011 17:14:25 -0700, Pilgrim
wrote:
Thought I'd share an experience I had this weekend while doing some work at
my mom's house. Had to install a grab bar in her bathtub

Several things you should consider ~ all from personal experience.
Placement of grab bars is a critical factor. Please don't just place
them only relying on some government or commercial regulations.

The angle and height of grab bars are dependent on the person that
will be using them (provided it is just one person who really needs
them). Walk the person who will be using them through the process and
see where they feel they'd need the most support. When standing up, I
like my grab bar(s) to be the highest I can use that will get me
started standing up and then also be usable when I finally get fully
standing.

The angle of grab bars is also an important factor. The angle of grab
bars which one might see in a pubic washroom, my not, are likely not
to be usable by everybody. Every situation is different - in the home,
especially.

All I ask is that you carefully consider the placement and you should
be fine from that standpoint. You *may* want to talk to an
occupational therapist.

Larry Jaques wrote:


Yeah, the bits are amazingly aggressive while being gentle to the
vitrified surface of the tile. I was absolutely (and happily)
dumbfounded the first time I used one. Mine is the spearpoint, like
this http://goo.gl/JEOkn , not like the bits HF now sells.
http://www.harborfreight.com/catalog.../view/id/8180/
I think I'd prefer the smooth, rounded edge as it cut in. It looks
safer.


My Harbor Freight set is the spearpoint set, like yours. Must be they
changed the product at some point after I bought mine.

--

-Mike-

Dave wrote:
On Mon, 31 Oct 2011 17:14:25 -0700, Pilgrim
wrote:
Thought I'd share an experience I had this weekend while doing some
work at my mom's house. Had to install a grab bar in her bathtub

Several things you should consider ~ all from personal experience.
Placement of grab bars is a critical factor. Please don't just place
them only relying on some government or commercial regulations.


I agree. Being new to this grab bar thing, I didn't really have any
preconceived notions about height, angle, etc. I went the route of having
my mom "fit" the bar. Where it ended up was purely a function of what
worked for her.

--

-Mike-

On 10/31/2011 7:05 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
Hey Guys:

Thought I'd share an experience I had this weekend while doing some work at
my mom's house. Had to install a grab bar in her bathtub - as well as some
other tasks and a *ton* of cleaning that only a few short years ago, no one
would ever have thought would be the case. The world's number one neat
freak, queen of clean - and we're scrubbing floors, washing down cupboards,
and all of the things you never thought would be necessary. But enough of
that...

I had to install this grab bar in my mom's bathroom, which is tiled from
floor to ceiling. I knew I'd have to use hollow wall fasteners, I just
picked up what Home Depot had. I was a bit concerned for drilling through
the tile without chipping it, and at a point I remembered that I had a cheap
set of Harbor Freight glass bits that I had purchased for something that my
wife wanted me to do - that of course, I have not got around to doing yet...

Anyway - I grabbed the as-yet-unused set of bits and headed down the road.
I've never used this kind of bit before, so I really did not know what to
expect. At all.

Well, not one to chicken my way into new adventures, I chucked a bit and
laid it into the tile - carefully. To my complete surprise, as the bit
started to turn, it immediately began to work its way in. No walk, no
problems. The thing simply began to drill its way in exactly where I placed
it. It ate its way into that tile as if it were a hot knife through butter.
Perfect holes every time. Can I say that I was impressed?

Maybe some of you have used this kind of bit before, but I had not and I
have to say (again...), I was impressed. Quick, simple work. Clean holes -
no chips.

Just thought this might be worth passing along.


Something else I found that works quite well when drilling into ceramic
tiles. A 1/8" carbide bit in a Dremel to make the initial penetration
and then standard masonry bits to finish the hole to the correct size.

As you probably know now the trick is to get through the surface, once
you accomplish that the tiles drill pretty easily.

On Nov 1, 6:27*am, "Mike Marlow" wrote:
Dave wrote:

Several things you should consider ~ all from personal experience.
Placement of grab bars is a critical factor. Please don't just place
them only relying on some government or commercial regulations.

I agree. *Being new to this grab bar thing, I didn't really have any
preconceived notions about height, angle, etc. *I went the route of having
my mom "fit" the bar. *Where it ended up was purely a function of what
worked for her.

At the time I put bars on everything that my folks touched, I was able
to talk to their occupational therapist about placement. Oddly, he
told me to put all the bars at an angle. Didn't make sense at first,
but sure did in practice.

For example. the bar in the bath/shower where his shower chair was had
the bar high on the entry side (IIRC 34" or so) and about 4" lower on
the other end by the chair. Since it was lower, it enabled him to
easily grab the bar while sitting to help hoist himself up. He worked
to the higher end and got out. I used the same slanted bar on the
toilet as well, and both folks loved it.

This slant also let me find a stud in the wall to connect the bar
flange to the wall with 3" screws.

Just my thoughts, but put bars on EVERYTHING. In and out of the house
(my Dad was knocked over when a gust of wind hit his front door and
slapped him in the back) and in some cases, double up. My Dad had a
strong side (right) so I made sure we had ingress and egress bars on
the right side of everything. Toilet area - two bars. Shower - two
bars. 1955 style sunken den - two bars.

Don't buy short bars as they will indeed be "grabbed" on occasion.
They will need every advantage they can get as they get older. Also,
no untextured bars. I wound up with a mix of knurled and mottled sand
blast in their house, but they didn't care because they were never
slick. As the folks lost tactile sensation, that became important to
them.

Good luck, Mike. Hang on...

Robert

On Tue, 1 Nov 2011 07:56:10 -0700 (PDT), "
to talk to their occupational therapist about placement. Oddly, he
told me to put all the bars at an angle. Didn't make sense at first,
but sure did in practice.

That's where the individual user comes into play. For people who can
walk if need be, (scooters, walkers, etc.) an angled bar is usually
fine. As they stand, they can slide their hands up an angled bar. They
have enough leg strength to assist with the standing up. For people
who are paraplegic or more disabled, angled bars are essentially
useless. The angles of the bars in *every* public facility as laid out
by government regulations (Canada in this case) is much too great to
stop your hand from sliding when supporting your weight. They're
useless to people like me who use wheelchairs and my arm strength is
pretty good.

On Tue, 1 Nov 2011 02:10:24 -0700 (PDT), Robatoy
wrote:

On Nov 1, 2:20*am, "Lew Hodgett" wrote:
Larry Jaques wrote:
If you can't get behind the tiled wall to shore it up
with backing tubafores/tubatwelves, drill into the studs. Using moly
bolts will end up pulling all the tile off the wall in a short time,
as soon as someone needs it.

----------------------------------
My preference is to use coarse thread, self tapping stainless screws
with
3M_4200 as a caulk.

Silicone is the bottom of the bucket as a caulk IMHO.
---------------------------------------

"Robatoy" wrote:

Absolutely. Good advice, and I have installed hundreds over the years.



Also, be sure to use half a tube of silicone gel behind each screw
plate so every screw is entirely gooped. It gets wet in there.

Again good advice.

Lew

In many tests that I have done over the years, mounting stainless
sinks UNDER countertops made of different materials, it have become
obvious that there is a HUGE difference in qualities of silicon. HUGE.

I think that undermounting concept was devised by a retailer who
wanted to sell more countertops, more silicone, and more cabinetry.
They're just -begging- to leak by design.

Some of the new green designs for homes have the roof inverted, with
the bottom of the vee at the middle of the house. I'm waiting to hear
the screams in a couple years, after maintenance has been ignored.
It's gonna be ugly...

http://goo.gl/52fJA
http://goo.gl/DfWTU
http://goo.gl/Kd9na
http://goo.gl/Tfquq (The toilet seat home is there, too. WWTT?)

All in all, it's ****ty architecture.

--
When you are kind to someone in trouble, you hope they'll remember
and be kind to someone else. And it'll become like a wildfire.
-- Whoopi Goldberg

On Nov 1, 11:12*am, Dave wrote:

That's where the individual user comes into play. For people who can
walk if need be, (scooters, walkers, etc.) an angled bar is usually
fine. As they stand, they can slide their hands up an angled bar. They
have enough leg strength to assist with the standing up. For people
who are paraplegic or more disabled, angled bars are essentially
useless. The angles of the bars in *every* public facility as laid out
by government regulations (Canada in this case) is much too great to
stop your hand from sliding when supporting your weight. They're
useless to people like me who use wheelchairs and my arm strength is
pretty good.

All true. In the case of my Dad, it was exactly as you described.
Pretty good upper body strength, but when he was on the shower chair
or the pot, the standard height was too high for him to use easily.
He found that he could grab the angled bar by locking his elbow at the
low end and grabbing the bar midway to get himself in motion.

However, for his "standing" or maneuvering bar, I put that at the
same height on both ends. I established the height the same way I
determined the height of the cane I made for him. In his regular
shoes and standing in the posture he normally used, I measured to the
middle of the heel of his hand and added about 3/4". He loved it.
Later, before he was using the bars to assist transfers, I made the
bars the same height at the top of his walker.

After that, I moved them to the best place we could by having him sit
in the shower and sit on the pot. I found that it was amazing how
much difference even and inch or so in height made for comfort of use.

Didn't mean to derail anything Mike, but this has turned out to be a
good discussion.

Robert

Thanx Mike!

I have to venture into this territory some day and your reports are
reassuring!

------------
"Mike Marlow" wrote in message
...

Hey Guys:

Thought I'd share an experience I had this weekend while doing some
work at
my mom's house. Had to install a grab bar in her bathtub - as well as
some
other tasks and a *ton* of cleaning that only a few short years ago, no
one
would ever have thought would be the case. The world's number one neat
freak, queen of clean - and we're scrubbing floors, washing down
cupboards,
and all of the things you never thought would be necessary. But enough
of
that...

I had to install this grab bar in my mom's bathroom, which is tiled
from
floor to ceiling. I knew I'd have to use hollow wall fasteners, I just
picked up what Home Depot had. I was a bit concerned for drilling
through
the tile without chipping it, and at a point I remembered that I had a
cheap
set of Harbor Freight glass bits that I had purchased for something
that my
wife wanted me to do - that of course, I have not got around to doing
yet...

Anyway - I grabbed the as-yet-unused set of bits and headed down the
road.
I've never used this kind of bit before, so I really did not know what
to
expect. At all.

Well, not one to chicken my way into new adventures, I chucked a bit
and
laid it into the tile - carefully. To my complete surprise, as the bit
started to turn, it immediately began to work its way in. No walk, no
problems. The thing simply began to drill its way in exactly where I
placed
it. It ate its way into that tile as if it were a hot knife through
butter.
Perfect holes every time. Can I say that I was impressed?

Maybe some of you have used this kind of bit before, but I had not and
I
have to say (again...), I was impressed. Quick, simple work. Clean
holes -
no chips.

Just thought this might be worth passing along.

--

-Mike-

Doesn't a pilot hole make the follow-up bit grab and chip or crack the
tile in a glass, porcelain or ceramic tile?

Perhaps keeping the pilot hole small enough works well. I wouldn't want
to have to slightly enlarge a hole in these materials.


------------
"Leon" wrote in message
...
Something else I found that works quite well when drilling into ceramic
tiles. A 1/8" carbide bit in a Dremel to make the initial penetration
and then standard masonry bits to finish the hole to the correct size.

As you probably know now the trick is to get through the surface, once
you accomplish that the tiles drill pretty easily.

m II wrote:

Thanx Mike!

I have to venture into this territory some day and your reports are
reassuring!


You bet. Unfortunately, it is a path that a lot of us have to walk down,
and it's one of the sadder paths we will traverse. This past weekend my
mother did not even know who I was, thought my wife was her best childhood
friend, and did not even realize she was in her own home. She did enjoy the
company, so it was good in that respect, but it was sad at the same time.
Hope you don't have to walk down this path - it's a good one to miss out on.

--

-Mike-

Not quite where I was at. My parent have been dead for years. My
comments were based on the drilling experiences.

I went down a difficult but quite different concern with one of my
parents. I understand some of your dilemma.

-------------

"Mike Marlow" wrote in message
...

m II wrote:

Thanx Mike!

I have to venture into this territory some day and your reports are
reassuring!


You bet. Unfortunately, it is a path that a lot of us have to walk
down,
and it's one of the sadder paths we will traverse. This past weekend
my
mother did not even know who I was, thought my wife was her best
childhood
friend, and did not even realize she was in her own home. She did
enjoy the
company, so it was good in that respect, but it was sad at the same
time.
Hope you don't have to walk down this path - it's a good one to miss
out on.

--

-Mike-

On Oct 31, 8:05*pm, "Mike Marlow"
wrote:

" a cheap set of Harbor Freight glass bits ... Just thought this
might be worth passing along. "

I have a set as well. I used mine to drill a hole in a glass vase
(Crystal??) and it worked fine first time out.

Some of the stuff I get from them works pretty well. But the Heat Guns
burn out too fast (on the flip side, they replaced the last one - no
questions - but it seems to be burning out after first long use). I've
had one of their 4" grinders for years w/o any problems. But getting
Woodruff key for one was a bear (had to make one) and the little
plastic bit that serves as the brush retainer went and I doubt I'll
find a replacement. Also, the trickle chargers are worth the $4.99
price but DO NOT leave them on 24/7! Use a timer switch to limit
their "on time" to (guesing here) thirty minutes/rest thirty minutes.
The transformers in the Walwarts burn up! (Not a fire, they just melt
themselves into oblivion.

"Mike Marlow" , wrote:

m II wrote:

Thanx Mike!

I have to venture into this territory some day and your reports are
reassuring!


You bet. Unfortunately, it is a path that a lot of us have to walk down,
and it's one of the sadder paths we will traverse. This past weekend my
mother did not even know who I was, thought my wife was her best childhood
friend, and did not even realize she was in her own home. She did enjoy the
company, so it was good in that respect, but it was sad at the same time.
Hope you don't have to walk down this path - it's a good one to miss out on.

You had the marks in wood on Josepi trolling now you have at your hand
evidence of the truly crewl twisted **** the individual is at that computer.
Sucked you in bigtime!

Message-ID:
Not quite where I was at. My parent have been dead for years. My
comments were based on the drilling experiences.

Sasquatch ****ed a dyslectic bear to birth the idiot posting Rec Woodworking
to gather in the suckers.

BB

PS: I used the diamond bits:

4 Piece Diamond Coated Rotary Drill Bits
ITEM # 32375 MANUFACTURER: DIAMOND LIFE

On Oct 31, 7:05*pm, "Mike Marlow"
wrote:
Hey Guys:

Thought I'd share an experience I had this weekend while doing some work at
my mom's house. *Had to install a grab bar in her bathtub - as well as some
other tasks and a *ton* of cleaning that only a few short years ago, no one
would ever have thought would be the case. *The world's number one neat
freak, queen of clean - and we're scrubbing floors, washing down cupboards,
and all of the things you never thought would be necessary. *But enough of
that...

I had to install this grab bar in my mom's bathroom, which is tiled from
floor to ceiling. *I knew I'd have to use hollow wall fasteners, I just
picked up what Home Depot had. *I was a bit concerned for drilling through
the tile without chipping it, and at a point I remembered that I had a cheap
set of Harbor Freight glass bits that I had purchased for something that my
wife wanted me to do - that of course, I have not got around to doing yet....

Anyway - I grabbed the as-yet-unused set of bits and headed down the road..
I've never used this kind of bit before, so I really did not know what to
expect. *At all.

Well, not one to chicken my way into new adventures, I chucked a bit and
laid it into the tile - carefully. *To my complete surprise, as the bit
started to turn, it immediately began to work its way in. *No walk, no
problems. *The thing simply began to drill its way in exactly where I placed
it. *It ate its way into that tile as if it were a hot knife through butter.
Perfect holes every time. *Can I say that I was impressed?

Maybe some of you have used this kind of bit before, but I had not and I
have to say (again...), I was impressed. *Quick, simple work. *Clean holes -
no chips.

Just thought this might be worth passing along.

--

-Mike-


I think the underlying message here is --- HF ain't all bad! )

I have probably done some HF bashing over the years myself; and I
still think most of their large wood and metal working machines are
well below standard - even junk. However, they do have some bargain
items that are pretty fair equipment.

- I bought one of their mortiser's 8-10 years ago because it was on
sale for $99 and I just had to try it. The hold down hardware is
poor, but the chisels were quite good and it CUTS SQUARE HOLES! Dang.

- I bought one of their 18ga nailers as a backup to my Porter Cable.
It is starting to look like a beat up stock car but it continues to
work well with few misfires - $ 20 on sale

- Few will deny that HF hit a home run with their new line of multi-
tools. The $79 dollar version that often sells for around $50 is a
good, solid performer.

- Their power winches are well priced and of pretty good quality.
Also some of their pneumatic tools are OK for the bucks

- Latex gloves and other shop expendables are well priced and just as
disposable as other higher priced items.

I think it will be a long time, if ever, before they start outclassing
higher quality equipment but I find myself bashing them a lot less
than 10 years ago.

RonB

"RonB" wrote

I have probably done some HF bashing over the years myself; and I
still think most of their large wood and metal working machines are
well below standard - even junk. However, they do have some bargain
items that are pretty fair equipment.

Yep, the absolute best use for Harbor Freight is for your tool ignorant
relatives, neighbors, etc. Ya know, those free loaders who are always
trying to "borrow" your tools with no intention of giving them back. I have
taken several people to Harbor Freight and gave them a quick tour while
gushing about how CHEAP their tools are. Since these folks rarely need or
use tools, they are perfect for them. They don't care all that much for
quality anyway. And they will buy cheap tools. And they stop trying to
"borrow" your tools.

I bought a bunch of clamps from them on sale. They were much cheaper than
elsewhere. I had a coupe big grinding jobs where I had to take an angle
grinder to some steel. And the clamps would get damaged. No problem, the
clamps were cheap enough. It worked.

Like you, I don't trust any of their big machinery. And their battery
chargers suck. I just picked up a bunch of gloves the other day for a roof
repair. I use them up in a day and I am out a buck fifty. Since they only
need to last one day, they are perfect.

We thought, for a moment you were going to expose your sliding false
wall with the real tools behind it!

----------

"Lee Michaels" wrote in message
eb.com...
Yep, the absolute best use for Harbor Freight is for your tool ignorant
relatives, neighbors, etc. Ya know, those free loaders who are always
trying to "borrow" your tools with no intention of giving them back. I
have
taken several people to Harbor Freight and gave them a quick tour while
gushing about how CHEAP their tools are. Since these folks rarely need
or
use tools, they are perfect for them. They don't care all that much
for
quality anyway. And they will buy cheap tools. And they stop trying
to
"borrow" your tools.

I bought a bunch of clamps from them on sale. They were much cheaper
than
elsewhere. I had a coupe big grinding jobs where I had to take an
angle
grinder to some steel. And the clamps would get damaged. No problem,
the
clamps were cheap enough. It worked.

Like you, I don't trust any of their big machinery. And their battery
chargers suck. I just picked up a bunch of gloves the other day for a
roof
repair. I use them up in a day and I am out a buck fifty. Since they
only
need to last one day, they are perfect.

In article 3982c2a6-3e0c-41be-92b4-
, says...

On Oct 31, 7:05*pm, "Mike Marlow"
wrote:
Hey Guys:

Thought I'd share an experience I had this weekend while doing some work at
my mom's house. *Had to install a grab bar in her bathtub - as well as some
other tasks and a *ton* of cleaning that only a few short years ago, no one
would ever have thought would be the case. *The world's number one neat
freak, queen of clean - and we're scrubbing floors, washing down cupboards,
and all of the things you never thought would be necessary. *But enough of
that...

I had to install this grab bar in my mom's bathroom, which is tiled from
floor to ceiling. *I knew I'd have to use hollow wall fasteners, I just
picked up what Home Depot had. *I was a bit concerned for drilling through
the tile without chipping it, and at a point I remembered that I had a cheap
set of Harbor Freight glass bits that I had purchased for something that my
wife wanted me to do - that of course, I have not got around to doing yet...

Anyway - I grabbed the as-yet-unused set of bits and headed down the road.
I've never used this kind of bit before, so I really did not know what to
expect. *At all.

Well, not one to chicken my way into new adventures, I chucked a bit and
laid it into the tile - carefully. *To my complete surprise, as the bit
started to turn, it immediately began to work its way in. *No walk, no
problems. *The thing simply began to drill its way in exactly where I placed
it. *It ate its way into that tile as if it were a hot knife through butter.
Perfect holes every time. *Can I say that I was impressed?

Maybe some of you have used this kind of bit before, but I had not and I
have to say (again...), I was impressed. *Quick, simple work. *Clean holes -
no chips.

Just thought this might be worth passing along.

--

-Mike-


I think the underlying message here is --- HF ain't all bad! )

I have probably done some HF bashing over the years myself; and I
still think most of their large wood and metal working machines are
well below standard - even junk. However, they do have some bargain
items that are pretty fair equipment.

- I bought one of their mortiser's 8-10 years ago because it was on
sale for $99 and I just had to try it. The hold down hardware is
poor, but the chisels were quite good and it CUTS SQUARE HOLES! Dang.

- I bought one of their 18ga nailers as a backup to my Porter Cable.
It is starting to look like a beat up stock car but it continues to
work well with few misfires - $ 20 on sale

- Few will deny that HF hit a home run with their new line of multi-
tools. The $79 dollar version that often sells for around $50 is a
good, solid performer.

- Their power winches are well priced and of pretty good quality.
Also some of their pneumatic tools are OK for the bucks

- Latex gloves and other shop expendables are well priced and just as
disposable as other higher priced items.

I think it will be a long time, if ever, before they start outclassing
higher quality equipment but I find myself bashing them a lot less
than 10 years ago.

The Chinese are learning the Japanese lesson--if you don't want people
to think your products are crap, then don't export crap.