SWMBO wants a fence.

Phase one is done - cutting down all of the pine trees that died over
the winter.

Phase two is done - SWMBO telling me I'm an idiot for not making the
neighbor pay me for his trees I cut down and paid to have chipped.

Phase three is done - found the property markers and roughed out where
the fence will be.

Phase four is done - Priced out the pressure treated lumber.


I am going with a board-on-board or shadowbox fence with the 5/8x6"
dog eared pickets. So my plan is to run three 8' 2x4s between each
post laying flat so the rails are flush with the posts. Then use six
nails per picket to put up the pickets. With 160' of fence I'll need
about 400 pickets and 2,400 nails.

I have a compressor with plenty of hose to get to the fence so...

What kind/brand of gun do I need and what kind of nails/staples?

Limp Arbor wrote:
SWMBO wants a fence.

Phase one is done - cutting down all of the pine trees that died over
the winter.

Phase two is done - SWMBO telling me I'm an idiot for not making the
neighbor pay me for his trees I cut down and paid to have chipped.

Phase three is done - found the property markers and roughed out where
the fence will be.

Phase four is done - Priced out the pressure treated lumber.


I am going with a board-on-board or shadowbox fence with the 5/8x6"
dog eared pickets. So my plan is to run three 8' 2x4s between each
post laying flat so the rails are flush with the posts. Then use six
nails per picket to put up the pickets. With 160' of fence I'll need
about 400 pickets and 2,400 nails.

I have a compressor with plenty of hose to get to the fence so...

What kind/brand of gun do I need and what kind of nails/staples?

On my past fences I used screws. The last one I used 1/2" crown
galvanized staples and It was much faster and has been just as stable.
I would go with 1/8" spacing--just to have a little leeway to adjust
for plumb when needed. The pickets will shrink and the gap will
always get larger with time. I usually lay a 2 x 4 on the ground to
rest the pickets on, then remove it. Soil seems to build up under a
fence, and once it touches the fence rot starts.

If you worry about dogs digging under the fence, dig a shallow trench
between posts under the fence line and fill it with sackrete. This
also helps keep weeds from popping up under the fence. If your
sprinkler wets one side of the fence the boards will warp DAMHIKT.

--
Gerald Ross
Cochran, GA

24 hours in a day, 24 beers in a case.
Coincidence?

"Limp Arbor" wrote in message
...
SWMBO wants a fence.

Phase one is done - cutting down all of the pine trees that died over
the winter.

Phase two is done - SWMBO telling me I'm an idiot for not making the
neighbor pay me for his trees I cut down and paid to have chipped.

Phase three is done - found the property markers and roughed out where
the fence will be.

Phase four is done - Priced out the pressure treated lumber.


I am going with a board-on-board or shadowbox fence with the 5/8x6"
dog eared pickets. So my plan is to run three 8' 2x4s between each
post laying flat so the rails are flush with the posts. Then use six
nails per picket to put up the pickets. With 160' of fence I'll need
about 400 pickets and 2,400 nails.

I have a compressor with plenty of hose to get to the fence so...

What kind/brand of gun do I need and what kind of nails/staples?

LA:

I haven't checked the wind loading on a shadowbox
arrangement but I think it will be quite low, so there
should be no problem there.

Spacing in front will be a factor in the above and
determine how much--or if-- someone can see into
your yard on a diagonal perspective. I'd use screws
Others have discussed options.

Depending on how long you intend to grace the
planet with your presence, own the property or the
wetness in you climate, you may want to think on
the heavier-duty, metal U post hangers to fix the
posts in concrete. You balance the additonal outlay
against your use. Whatever you do, taper the concret
down and away from any installet elements for
drainage.

Certain HD stores also stock plastic-wood composite
pickets in russet and faded green. No painting allowed
and termites forbidden. They're about a dollar to half that
again more than natural competition. If they weigh less
and you check out the other specs, it might earn a pondering.

As to nail guns, a great warranty and good reviews
would be more significant to me than grand praise
and a short guarantee. If you buy a gun from some
independents, they will sometimes make you a good
package deal when you buy a large nail order concurrently,
hoping you'll be in every week for more nails. But,
check around.

Regards,

Edward Hennessey

On Wed, 11 May 2011 07:36:49 -0700 (PDT), Limp Arbor
wrote:

SWMBO wants a fence.

Phase one is done - cutting down all of the pine trees that died over
the winter.

Phase two is done - SWMBO telling me I'm an idiot for not making the
neighbor pay me for his trees I cut down and paid to have chipped.

Phase three is done - found the property markers and roughed out where
the fence will be.

Phase four is done - Priced out the pressure treated lumber.


I am going with a board-on-board or shadowbox fence with the 5/8x6"
dog eared pickets. So my plan is to run three 8' 2x4s between each
post laying flat so the rails are flush with the posts. Then use six
nails per picket to put up the pickets. With 160' of fence I'll need
about 400 pickets and 2,400 nails.

I have a compressor with plenty of hose to get to the fence so...

What kind/brand of gun do I need and what kind of nails/staples?

Ideally, you'll want an impact driver and coated or stainless screws,
not nails. They allow for easy removal and replacement as (not if)
they're destroyed. It's a bit more expensive and time consuming, but
the advantages outweigh those, unless you're painting the fence, which
is even more expensive.

If you do go with nails, they'll rust and discolor the fence unless
you buy stainless nails. If you go with a brad nailer and stainless
brads, the first kid who tries to climb over it will accidentally pull
off a board. From then on, more will come down for wholesale access.

I'd be perfectly happy to use a HF 15ga gun with stainless brads (not
available from HF) if I were to make the mistake of nailing up a
fence.

--
Woe be to him that reads but one book.
-- George Herbert

On Wed, 11 May 2011 17:18:40 -0700, "Edward Hennessey"
wrote:


"Limp Arbor" wrote in message
...
SWMBO wants a fence.

Phase one is done - cutting down all of the pine trees that died over
the winter.

Phase two is done - SWMBO telling me I'm an idiot for not making the
neighbor pay me for his trees I cut down and paid to have chipped.

Phase three is done - found the property markers and roughed out where
the fence will be.

Phase four is done - Priced out the pressure treated lumber.


I am going with a board-on-board or shadowbox fence with the 5/8x6"
dog eared pickets. So my plan is to run three 8' 2x4s between each
post laying flat so the rails are flush with the posts. Then use six
nails per picket to put up the pickets. With 160' of fence I'll need
about 400 pickets and 2,400 nails.

I have a compressor with plenty of hose to get to the fence so...

What kind/brand of gun do I need and what kind of nails/staples?

LA:

I haven't checked the wind loading on a shadowbox
arrangement but I think it will be quite low, so there
should be no problem there.

I'd think they'd have nearly the same loading as the solid fence, say
90% as a WAG.


Spacing in front will be a factor in the above and
determine how much--or if-- someone can see into
your yard on a diagonal perspective. I'd use screws
Others have discussed options.

Cat/rat/coon/possum/ferret-friendly fences.


Depending on how long you intend to grace the
planet with your presence, own the property or the
wetness in you climate, you may want to think on
the heavier-duty, metal U post hangers to fix the
posts in concrete. You balance the additonal outlay
against your use. Whatever you do, taper the concret
down and away from any installet elements for
drainage.

If I were building a fence for myself today, I's use steel set into
concrete to hold the posts proud of the ground altogether. Today's PT
lumber is pure ****. The treating only goes 1/8" into the wood, and
any cut exposes untreated timber to the elements. Then they did away
with the brown-dyed preservative and made it illegal to color or
concoct your own brew for the same use. Goddamned EPA...


Certain HD stores also stock plastic-wood composite
pickets in russet and faded green. No painting allowed
and termites forbidden. They're about a dollar to half that
again more than natural competition. If they weigh less
and you check out the other specs, it might earn a pondering.

They're all 2 to 3 times the weight of kiln dried lumber, Ed.

--
Woe be to him that reads but one book.
-- George Herbert

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...

On Wed, 11 May 2011 07:36:49 -0700 (PDT), Limp Arbor
wrote:

SWMBO wants a fence.

Phase one is done - cutting down all of the pine trees that died over
the winter.

Phase two is done - SWMBO telling me I'm an idiot for not making the
neighbor pay me for his trees I cut down and paid to have chipped.

Phase three is done - found the property markers and roughed out where
the fence will be.

Phase four is done - Priced out the pressure treated lumber.


I am going with a board-on-board or shadowbox fence with the 5/8x6"
dog eared pickets. So my plan is to run three 8' 2x4s between each
post laying flat so the rails are flush with the posts. Then use six
nails per picket to put up the pickets. With 160' of fence I'll need
about 400 pickets and 2,400 nails.

I have a compressor with plenty of hose to get to the fence so...

What kind/brand of gun do I need and what kind of nails/staples?

Ideally, you'll want an impact driver and coated or stainless screws,
not nails. They allow for easy removal and replacement as (not if)
they're destroyed. It's a bit more expensive and time consuming, but
the advantages outweigh those, unless you're painting the fence, which
is even more expensive.

Cant say that I have ever seen a fence where the posts and rails did not
need to be replaced when the picket did. Typically the post and rail may
look OK but they are not going to out last the second round of pickets.
Better to simply replace every thing and nail it all up cause you might as
well not invest more time than necessary considering it will all have to be
replaced.

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 11 May 2011 17:18:40 -0700, "Edward Hennessey"
wrote:


"Limp Arbor" wrote in message
...
SWMBO wants a fence.

Phase one is done - cutting down all of the pine trees that died over
the winter.

Phase two is done - SWMBO telling me I'm an idiot for not making the
neighbor pay me for his trees I cut down and paid to have chipped.

Phase three is done - found the property markers and roughed out where
the fence will be.

Phase four is done - Priced out the pressure treated lumber.


I am going with a board-on-board or shadowbox fence with the 5/8x6"
dog eared pickets. So my plan is to run three 8' 2x4s between each
post laying flat so the rails are flush with the posts. Then use six
nails per picket to put up the pickets. With 160' of fence I'll need
about 400 pickets and 2,400 nails.

I have a compressor with plenty of hose to get to the fence so...

What kind/brand of gun do I need and what kind of nails/staples?

LA:


LJ:

I haven't checked the wind loading on a shadowbox
arrangement but I think it will be quite low, so there
should be no problem there.

I'd think they'd have nearly the same loading as the solid fence, say
90% as a WAG.

Though nothing is at hand to detail the point, one
time I put up a fence where the goal was to minimize
backside air turbulence on a space "roofed" by shade
cloth. A treatment turned up that dicussed various
design alternatives in terms of numbers and dispersion
patterns that were comprehensive and
surprisingly different, pivoting around
things like seemingly minor changes in paling spacing.
It was impressive. I obeyed. And it paid off like a charm.
That experience implies the data for something
more mainstream like wind load will be out
there. Whether that is important to the OP's location...
who knows?


Spacing in front will be a factor in the above and
determine how much--or if-- someone can see into
your yard on a diagonal perspective. I'd use screws
Others have discussed options.

Cat/rat/coon/possum/ferret-friendly fences.

Not to print the name of "rattlesnake" in that
company.


Depending on how long you intend to grace the
planet with your presence, own the property or the
wetness in you climate, you may want to think on
the heavier-duty, metal U post hangers to fix the
posts in concrete. You balance the additonal outlay
against your use. Whatever you do, taper the concret
down and away from any installet elements for
drainage.

If I were building a fence for myself today, I's use steel set into
concrete to hold the posts proud of the ground altogether. Today's PT
lumber is pure ****. The treating only goes 1/8" into the wood, and
any cut exposes untreated timber to the elements. Then they did away
with the brown-dyed preservative and made it illegal to color or
concoct your own brew for the same use. Goddamned EPA...

Ditto. Ditto. Before I went metal, I paid a visit to
the local Parks and Recreation people after observing
them using substantial brackets and heavy angle with bolts on
posts. A kind man said their failure rate--if not allowed
to rust--was a number you could count in percent with
a few fingers. That's in an abusive, public environment.
Sure, it's another 5-6 or so frogskins a post.
The alternative method tolls a bit more for replacement.

Another factor is to cure the concrete for as long as you can
against shrinkage and cracking. Don't load it for awhile. Try
to avoid hot weather when pouring. Cover it with an absorptive
cloth. Put a gallon jug of water on it with some weeping pinholes
and wet it periodically if that is called for. It's a drag. But that
will be the end of it.


Certain HD stores also stock plastic-wood composite
pickets in russet and faded green. No painting allowed
and termites forbidden. They're about a dollar to half that
again more than natural competition. If they weigh less
and you check out the other specs, it might earn a pondering.

They're all 2 to 3 times the weight of kiln dried lumber, Ed.

Good to know, Larry.

Regards,

Edward Hennessey

On Wed, 11 May 2011 23:15:38 -0700, "Edward Hennessey"
wrote:


"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 11 May 2011 17:18:40 -0700, "Edward Hennessey"
wrote:


"Limp Arbor" wrote in message
...
SWMBO wants a fence.

Phase one is done - cutting down all of the pine trees that died over
the winter.

Phase two is done - SWMBO telling me I'm an idiot for not making the
neighbor pay me for his trees I cut down and paid to have chipped.

Phase three is done - found the property markers and roughed out where
the fence will be.

Phase four is done - Priced out the pressure treated lumber.


I am going with a board-on-board or shadowbox fence with the 5/8x6"
dog eared pickets. So my plan is to run three 8' 2x4s between each
post laying flat so the rails are flush with the posts. Then use six
nails per picket to put up the pickets. With 160' of fence I'll need
about 400 pickets and 2,400 nails.

I have a compressor with plenty of hose to get to the fence so...

What kind/brand of gun do I need and what kind of nails/staples?

LA:


LJ:

I haven't checked the wind loading on a shadowbox
arrangement but I think it will be quite low, so there
should be no problem there.

I'd think they'd have nearly the same loading as the solid fence, say
90% as a WAG.

Though nothing is at hand to detail the point, one
time I put up a fence where the goal was to minimize
backside air turbulence on a space "roofed" by shade
cloth. A treatment turned up that dicussed various
design alternatives in terms of numbers and dispersion
patterns that were comprehensive and
surprisingly different, pivoting around
things like seemingly minor changes in paling spacing.
It was impressive. I obeyed. And it paid off like a charm.

Cool. I'm happily living in an average 3mph wind area. Every time I
go up to the mountains, I remember why I don't want a hilltop home.
It's too bloody windy up there!


That experience implies the data for something
more mainstream like wind load will be out
there. Whether that is important to the OP's location...
who knows?

We may be hearing that from him soon.


Spacing in front will be a factor in the above and
determine how much--or if-- someone can see into
your yard on a diagonal perspective. I'd use screws
Others have discussed options.

Cat/rat/coon/possum/ferret-friendly fences.

Not to print the name of "rattlesnake" in that
company.

Yeah, those fences are snake-friendly, too.


Depending on how long you intend to grace the
planet with your presence, own the property or the
wetness in you climate, you may want to think on
the heavier-duty, metal U post hangers to fix the
posts in concrete. You balance the additonal outlay
against your use. Whatever you do, taper the concret
down and away from any installet elements for
drainage.

If I were building a fence for myself today, I's use steel set into
concrete to hold the posts proud of the ground altogether. Today's PT
lumber is pure ****. The treating only goes 1/8" into the wood, and
any cut exposes untreated timber to the elements. Then they did away
with the brown-dyed preservative and made it illegal to color or
concoct your own brew for the same use. Goddamned EPA...

Ditto. Ditto. Before I went metal, I paid a visit to
the local Parks and Recreation people after observing
them using substantial brackets and heavy angle with bolts on
posts. A kind man said their failure rate--if not allowed
to rust--was a number you could count in percent with
a few fingers. That's in an abusive, public environment.
Sure, it's another 5-6 or so frogskins a post.
The alternative method tolls a bit more for replacement.

Yeah, park fences take a helluva lot of abuse.


Another factor is to cure the concrete for as long as you can
against shrinkage and cracking. Don't load it for awhile. Try
to avoid hot weather when pouring. Cover it with an absorptive
cloth. Put a gallon jug of water on it with some weeping pinholes
and wet it periodically if that is called for. It's a drag. But that
will be the end of it.

I always give fence posts at least a couple days to cure. Ideally, a
week would be better, but try to tell that to the lady who wants a
fence up around her kids.


Certain HD stores also stock plastic-wood composite
pickets in russet and faded green. No painting allowed
and termites forbidden. They're about a dollar to half that
again more than natural competition. If they weigh less
and you check out the other specs, it might earn a pondering.

They're all 2 to 3 times the weight of kiln dried lumber, Ed.

Good to know, Larry.

I'm glad my clients are too cheap to use that stuff.

--
Woe be to him that reads but one book.
-- George Herbert

Nailer?
..
..
I hardly know her!

On Thu, 12 May 2011 16:15:20 -0700 (PDT), Robatoy
wrote:

Nailer?
.
.
I hardly know her!

When has that ever stopped ya? Usually, it's better that way.
No gnawing off of the arm to get away when you sober up and wake in
the morning, eh? wink, wink, nudge, nudge, knowwhatImean?

--
If we attend continually and promptly to the little that
we can do, we shall ere long be surprised to find how
little remains that we cannot do. -- Samuel Butler

On May 12, 7:40*pm, Larry Jaques
wrote:
On Thu, 12 May 2011 16:15:20 -0700 (PDT), Robatoy

wrote:
Nailer?
.
.
I hardly know her!

When has that ever stopped ya? *Usually, it's better that way.
No gnawing off of the arm to get away when you sober up and wake in
the morning, eh? *wink, wink, nudge, nudge, knowwhatImean?

--
If we attend continually and promptly to the little that
we can do, we shall ere long be surprised to find how
little remains that we cannot do. * * * -- Samuel Butler

An acquaintance of mine stated: "I have never gone to bed with an ugly
woman, but sure have woken up with some..."

The crown staples I have used all rust after a few years in the wood.
Nothing looks worse than rust running down a board. I use them many other
places but not on a rain exposed wood.

I built an all cedar fence once and the nails wouldn't stay in that wood if
my life depended on it. The fance board ended up screwed to hold them.

Even the posts were so light they rose out of the ground about 2 inches
every spring from the frost lift. So much for having posts over 4 feet deep
below the frost line. They pounded back down each year easily enough,
though.

--------------
"Gerald Ross" wrote in message
...
On my past fences I used screws. The last one I used 1/2" crown
galvanized staples and It was much faster and has been just as stable.
I would go with 1/8" spacing--just to have a little leeway to adjust
for plumb when needed. The pickets will shrink and the gap will
always get larger with time. I usually lay a 2 x 4 on the ground to
rest the pickets on, then remove it. Soil seems to build up under a
fence, and once it touches the fence rot starts.

If you worry about dogs digging under the fence, dig a shallow trench
between posts under the fence line and fill it with sackrete. This
also helps keep weeds from popping up under the fence. If your
sprinkler wets one side of the fence the boards will warp DAMHIKT.

--
Gerald Ross
Cochran, GA

24 hours in a day, 24 beers in a case.
Coincidence?

Limp Arbor" wrote:

SWMBO wants a fence.

Unless you want to be a slave to a wooden fence, build it out of
reclaimed HDPE.

Here is one source in Green Bay, WI.

http://tinyurl.com/y976voo


Lew

Have to find a way to create a sliding mount for the horizontal supports for
the fence boards. Doesn't that stuff expand about 2 inches in 5 feet in the
sun?

LOL

------------

"Lew Hodgett" wrote in message
eb.com...
Unless you want to be a slave to a wooden fence, build it out of
reclaimed HDPE.

Here is one source in Green Bay, WI.

http://tinyurl.com/y976voo


Lew

-------------
Limp Arbor" wrote:

SWMBO wants a fence.

On May 11, 10:17*pm, "Leon" lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

Cant say that I have ever seen a fence where the posts and rails did not
need to be replaced when the picket did. *Typically the post and rail may
look OK but they are not going to out last the second round of pickets.
Better to simply replace every thing and nail it all up cause you might as
well not invest more time than necessary considering it will all have to be
replaced.

Couldn't agree more. Gone are the days of wooden fences lasting 20
years or more. I put a standard three rail fence, and if I can get
them to spring for the dough, I use the metal posts and brackets.
However, sometimes the neighbors don't like the looks (not everyone
lives in the country) so they want all wood.

I get the best pickets I can from a cedar supplier here in town. They
are a bit more expensive, but in the end cost about the same as the
standard junk you buy as the waste goes down quite a bit.

I shoot them on with galvanized ring shanked nails, with the gun set
to slightly sink them. They don't pull out. When replacing a picket,
the cedar picket will come off, but the nails remain. I tap them in,
and put on a new one with a hand driven 6d cold galvanized ring shank.

I don't have the time, the inclination, or see the benefit of the
extra effort or cost screwing a fence together.

But then again, that's just me. YMMV.

Robert

wrote in message
...

On May 11, 10:17 pm, "Leon" lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

Cant say that I have ever seen a fence where the posts and rails did not
need to be replaced when the picket did. Typically the post and rail may
look OK but they are not going to out last the second round of pickets.
Better to simply replace every thing and nail it all up cause you might as
well not invest more time than necessary considering it will all have to
be
replaced.

Couldn't agree more. Gone are the days of wooden fences lasting 20
years or more. I put a standard three rail fence, and if I can get
them to spring for the dough, I use the metal posts and brackets.
However, sometimes the neighbors don't like the looks (not everyone
lives in the country) so they want all wood.

I get the best pickets I can from a cedar supplier here in town. They
are a bit more expensive, but in the end cost about the same as the
standard junk you buy as the waste goes down quite a bit.

I shoot them on with galvanized ring shanked nails, with the gun set
to slightly sink them. They don't pull out. When replacing a picket,
the cedar picket will come off, but the nails remain. I tap them in,
and put on a new one with a hand driven 6d cold galvanized ring shank.

I don't have the time, the inclination, or see the benefit of the
extra effort or cost screwing a fence together.

But then again, that's just me. YMMV.

Robert


@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@


Robert I think that once the typical "screw" person replaces a fence he
build 20 years prior he sees the light. ;~) I have screwed a couple of 8'
sections to close the gap between property lines and the house in the front
but after learning that you very seldom get away with just replacing the
pickets the screw idea is way over thought, or under thought.

Ditto the galvanized ring shank nails on every thing.

I assume you use the round metal posts, thinking chain link, what diameter
posts are you using? The normal post or do you use the terminal sized
posts. I'm thinking the terminal posts.

Mentioning that materials don't last these days, my dad has a gate in his
atrium that was built in 1974. I have had to replace the cedar posts on
both sides but the gate only looks a couple of years old. 37 years ain't
bad for a cedar picket gate, 8" wide pickets at that.

"Leon" lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in
:


Robert I think that once the typical "screw" person replaces a fence
he build 20 years prior he sees the light. ;~) I have screwed a
couple of 8' sections to close the gap between property lines and the
house in the front but after learning that you very seldom get away
with just replacing the pickets the screw idea is way over thought, or
under thought.

Ditto the galvanized ring shank nails on every thing.

I assume you use the round metal posts, thinking chain link, what
diameter posts are you using? The normal post or do you use the
terminal sized posts. I'm thinking the terminal posts.


I took some PT 2x6 decking up a few years ago that had been screwed down.
Heads breaking off and spinning freely were a common happening. Some
pieces would come off with a large prybar, but others had to be cut off.

I'd expect the same thing to occur with a fence.

Puckdropper

I wouldn't.
Fencing is mostly vertical construction,water drains quite well and snow
sheds, unlike a deck. Look at frequency of staining required.


---
"Puckdropper" wrote in message
eb.com...
I took some PT 2x6 decking up a few years ago that had been screwed down.
Heads breaking off and spinning freely were a common happening. Some
pieces would come off with a large prybar, but others had to be cut off.

I'd expect the same thing to occur with a fence.

Puckdropper

"Puckdropper" wrote in message
eb.com...

"Leon" lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in
:


Robert I think that once the typical "screw" person replaces a fence
he build 20 years prior he sees the light. ;~) I have screwed a
couple of 8' sections to close the gap between property lines and the
house in the front but after learning that you very seldom get away
with just replacing the pickets the screw idea is way over thought, or
under thought.

Ditto the galvanized ring shank nails on every thing.

I assume you use the round metal posts, thinking chain link, what
diameter posts are you using? The normal post or do you use the
terminal sized posts. I'm thinking the terminal posts.


I took some PT 2x6 decking up a few years ago that had been screwed down.
Heads breaking off and spinning freely were a common happening. Some
pieces would come off with a large prybar, but others had to be cut off.

I'd expect the same thing to occur with a fence.
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

Probably right on that count unless you use those pretty stainless steel or
deck screws and then you probably add several hundreds of dollars to the
price of the fence.

On May 13, 7:00 am, "Leon" lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

I assume you use the round metal posts, thinking chain link, what diameter
posts are you using? The normal post or do you use the terminal sized
posts. I'm thinking the terminal posts.

Go to google, click on "Images" for your search.

Type in " postmaster fence posts " and you will see the exact product
I am talking about. Don't think these are flimsy. They are really
heavy duty and almost 3/16" thick. They are galvanized, can be
covered or painted.

You screw on the rails with deck screws, and nail the pickets. It
makes a very strong fence and the back side with the screws can be
covered up with a picket or small trim piece over the rail itself,
giving the appearance of being a wood post. My fence guy has been
using this for his municipal work for years now, and everyone seems
quite pleased.

He still uses cedar posts or 4X4 recycled plastic posts (unless I want
to spring for the metal) on either side of a gate. Like the old
timers did around here for years, when using cedar 4X4s, I take
roofing mastic (tar, plastic cement) and trowel on a thin layer about
3" from the bottom of the post before setting them in concrete to help
their water resistance and resistance to bugs/water at the point of
contact to air at the soil level.

When using this system for the state/county/muninciple guys, they love
this system as they can easily replace damage sections by simply
pulling out the screws and letting whole sections drop. It also makes
it easy to remove and replace if a section has to be removed for
machine access like a skid steer loader.

If you have a McCoy's in Houston, you should have them there. That's
where the "Postmaster" fence post products are available here.

Robert

On Fri, 13 May 2011 07:04:18 -0500, "Leon" lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

Mentioning that materials don't last these days, my dad has a gate in his
atrium that was built in 1974. I have had to replace the cedar posts on
both sides but the gate only looks a couple of years old. 37 years ain't
bad for a cedar picket gate, 8" wide pickets at that.

You guys use the term "picket" too loosely for my tastes. They're
usually 42" tall or less and 1x3 or 1x4". Like this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Cl...cket_Fence.JPG

Are you guys talking about plain old straight (or dog-eared) fencing
_boards_?

--
If we attend continually and promptly to the little that
we can do, we shall ere long be surprised to find how
little remains that we cannot do. -- Samuel Butler

wrote in message
...

On May 13, 7:00 am, "Leon" lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

I assume you use the round metal posts, thinking chain link, what diameter
posts are you using? The normal post or do you use the terminal sized
posts. I'm thinking the terminal posts.

Go to google, click on "Images" for your search.

Type in " postmaster fence posts " and you will see the exact product
I am talking about. Don't think these are flimsy. They are really
heavy duty and almost 3/16" thick. They are galvanized, can be
covered or painted.

@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

3/16" thick, how do you lift them? ;~)

You screw on the rails with deck screws, and nail the pickets. It
makes a very strong fence and the back side with the screws can be
covered up with a picket or small trim piece over the rail itself,
giving the appearance of being a wood post. My fence guy has been
using this for his municipal work for years now, and everyone seems
quite pleased.

He still uses cedar posts or 4X4 recycled plastic posts (unless I want
to spring for the metal) on either side of a gate. Like the old
timers did around here for years, when using cedar 4X4s, I take
roofing mastic (tar, plastic cement) and trowel on a thin layer about
3" from the bottom of the post before setting them in concrete to help
their water resistance and resistance to bugs/water at the point of
contact to air at the soil level.

When using this system for the state/county/muninciple guys, they love
this system as they can easily replace damage sections by simply
pulling out the screws and letting whole sections drop. It also makes
it easy to remove and replace if a section has to be removed for
machine access like a skid steer loader.

If you have a McCoy's in Houston, you should have them there. That's
where the "Postmaster" fence post products are available here.

Robert
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

Thank you Robert, we do have a McCoy's in the area, Rosenberg IIRC. I'll
look into that.

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...

On Fri, 13 May 2011 07:04:18 -0500, "Leon" lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

Mentioning that materials don't last these days, my dad has a gate in his
atrium that was built in 1974. I have had to replace the cedar posts on
both sides but the gate only looks a couple of years old. 37 years ain't
bad for a cedar picket gate, 8" wide pickets at that.

You guys use the term "picket" too loosely for my tastes. They're
usually 42" tall or less and 1x3 or 1x4". Like this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Cl...cket_Fence.JPG

Are you guys talking about plain old straight (or dog-eared) fencing
_boards_?

@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

Picket, the part that provides the privacy. Check out what your local
lumber yard or Borg calls them. A picket does not have size constraints.

http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/...atalogId=10053

scroll down.

http://www.lowes.com/SearchCatalogDi...ogId=10051&N=0

scroll down

In article , lcb11211
@swbelldotnet says...

"Puckdropper" wrote in message
eb.com...

"Leon" lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in
:


Robert I think that once the typical "screw" person replaces a fence
he build 20 years prior he sees the light. ;~) I have screwed a
couple of 8' sections to close the gap between property lines and the
house in the front but after learning that you very seldom get away
with just replacing the pickets the screw idea is way over thought, or
under thought.

Ditto the galvanized ring shank nails on every thing.

I assume you use the round metal posts, thinking chain link, what
diameter posts are you using? The normal post or do you use the
terminal sized posts. I'm thinking the terminal posts.


I took some PT 2x6 decking up a few years ago that had been screwed down.
Heads breaking off and spinning freely were a common happening. Some
pieces would come off with a large prybar, but others had to be cut off.

I'd expect the same thing to occur with a fence.
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

Probably right on that count unless you use those pretty stainless steel or
deck screws and then you probably add several hundreds of dollars to the
price of the fence.


A while back I put together some scaffolding from 2x lumber using
galvanized SPAX screws. Was up for about three months. Most of it came
apart all right, but some of the heads spun right off and when they did
it wasn't possible to get the pieces apart without damaging them--the
screws were too hard for a Multimaster to cut and had enough thread in
both pieces to hold like the head was still on.

There was no rust or corrosion evident on any of the screws, so it's
difficult to blame the heads spinning off on weathering.

Personally I tend to use screws mainly because I'm too lazy to swing a
hammer, but I don't really see removability as being a selling point in
exterior wood construction.

"J. Clarke" wrote in message
in.local...

In article , lcb11211
@swbelldotnet says...

"Puckdropper" wrote in message
eb.com...

"Leon" lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in
:


Robert I think that once the typical "screw" person replaces a fence
he build 20 years prior he sees the light. ;~) I have screwed a
couple of 8' sections to close the gap between property lines and the
house in the front but after learning that you very seldom get away
with just replacing the pickets the screw idea is way over thought, or
under thought.

Ditto the galvanized ring shank nails on every thing.

I assume you use the round metal posts, thinking chain link, what
diameter posts are you using? The normal post or do you use the
terminal sized posts. I'm thinking the terminal posts.


I took some PT 2x6 decking up a few years ago that had been screwed down.
Heads breaking off and spinning freely were a common happening. Some
pieces would come off with a large prybar, but others had to be cut off.

I'd expect the same thing to occur with a fence.
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

Probably right on that count unless you use those pretty stainless steel
or
deck screws and then you probably add several hundreds of dollars to the
price of the fence.


A while back I put together some scaffolding from 2x lumber using
galvanized SPAX screws. Was up for about three months. Most of it came
apart all right, but some of the heads spun right off and when they did
it wasn't possible to get the pieces apart without damaging them--the
screws were too hard for a Multimaster to cut and had enough thread in
both pieces to hold like the head was still on.

@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

If you did not use an impact driver to remove the screws you may want to
consider using one. While they are extremely strong compared to the typical
same voltage drill, the impact action is much easier on the fastener.
Because the torque is not constant it gives the fastener a chance relax a
bit.

In article , lcb11211
@swbelldotnet says...

"J. Clarke" wrote in message
in.local...

In article , lcb11211
@swbelldotnet says...

"Puckdropper" wrote in message
eb.com...

"Leon" lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in
:


Robert I think that once the typical "screw" person replaces a fence
he build 20 years prior he sees the light. ;~) I have screwed a
couple of 8' sections to close the gap between property lines and the
house in the front but after learning that you very seldom get away
with just replacing the pickets the screw idea is way over thought, or
under thought.

Ditto the galvanized ring shank nails on every thing.

I assume you use the round metal posts, thinking chain link, what
diameter posts are you using? The normal post or do you use the
terminal sized posts. I'm thinking the terminal posts.


I took some PT 2x6 decking up a few years ago that had been screwed down.
Heads breaking off and spinning freely were a common happening. Some
pieces would come off with a large prybar, but others had to be cut off.

I'd expect the same thing to occur with a fence.
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

Probably right on that count unless you use those pretty stainless steel
or
deck screws and then you probably add several hundreds of dollars to the
price of the fence.


A while back I put together some scaffolding from 2x lumber using
galvanized SPAX screws. Was up for about three months. Most of it came
apart all right, but some of the heads spun right off and when they did
it wasn't possible to get the pieces apart without damaging them--the
screws were too hard for a Multimaster to cut and had enough thread in
both pieces to hold like the head was still on.

@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

If you did not use an impact driver to remove the screws you may want to
consider using one. While they are extremely strong compared to the typical
same voltage drill, the impact action is much easier on the fastener.
Because the torque is not constant it gives the fastener a chance relax a
bit.

Used an impact driver going in and going out.

On Fri, 13 May 2011 11:52:59 -0500, "Leon" lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
.. .

On Fri, 13 May 2011 07:04:18 -0500, "Leon" lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

Mentioning that materials don't last these days, my dad has a gate in his
atrium that was built in 1974. I have had to replace the cedar posts on
both sides but the gate only looks a couple of years old. 37 years ain't
bad for a cedar picket gate, 8" wide pickets at that.

You guys use the term "picket" too loosely for my tastes. They're
usually 42" tall or less and 1x3 or 1x4". Like this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Cl...cket_Fence.JPG

Are you guys talking about plain old straight (or dog-eared) fencing
_boards_?

@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

Picket, the part that provides the privacy. Check out what your local
lumber yard or Borg calls them. A picket does not have size constraints.

http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/...atalogId=10053

scroll down.

Weird.


http://www.lowes.com/SearchCatalogDi...ogId=10051&N=0

scroll down

Ditto.


Even HD calls them "fence boards" on other pages. http://goo.gl/aT9pc

Every movie I've ever seen which mentioned a "white picket fence"
referred to the short, narrow, open-spaced style shown here.
http://goo.gl/LY8IM

--
If we attend continually and promptly to the little that
we can do, we shall ere long be surprised to find how
little remains that we cannot do. -- Samuel Butler

On Fri, 13 May 2011 17:53:33 -0500, "Leon" lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

If you did not use an impact driver to remove the screws you may want to
consider using one. While they are extremely strong compared to the typical
same voltage drill, the impact action is much easier on the fastener.
Because the torque is not constant it gives the fastener a chance relax a
bit.

Yeah, impacts practically -vibrate- the things loose. They are an
absolutely marvelous invention. I even spent Festool-like prices on my
Makita. (Nah, the prices were lower.)

--
If we attend continually and promptly to the little that
we can do, we shall ere long be surprised to find how
little remains that we cannot do. -- Samuel Butler

On 5/13/2011 8:04 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:

Every movie I've ever seen which mentioned a "white picket fence"
referred to the short, narrow, open-spaced style shown here.
http://goo.gl/LY8IM

That's in Pleasantville, where it is always 72, the basketballs go
swoosshh, and fences don't require fasteners of any type.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)

"J. Clarke" wrote in message
in.local...

In article , lcb11211
@swbelldotnet says...

"J. Clarke" wrote in message
in.local...

In article , lcb11211
@swbelldotnet says...

"Puckdropper" wrote in message
eb.com...

"Leon" lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in
:


Robert I think that once the typical "screw" person replaces a fence
he build 20 years prior he sees the light. ;~) I have screwed a
couple of 8' sections to close the gap between property lines and the
house in the front but after learning that you very seldom get away
with just replacing the pickets the screw idea is way over thought, or
under thought.

Ditto the galvanized ring shank nails on every thing.

I assume you use the round metal posts, thinking chain link, what
diameter posts are you using? The normal post or do you use the
terminal sized posts. I'm thinking the terminal posts.


I took some PT 2x6 decking up a few years ago that had been screwed
down.
Heads breaking off and spinning freely were a common happening. Some
pieces would come off with a large prybar, but others had to be cut off.

I'd expect the same thing to occur with a fence.
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

Probably right on that count unless you use those pretty stainless steel
or
deck screws and then you probably add several hundreds of dollars to
the
price of the fence.


A while back I put together some scaffolding from 2x lumber using
galvanized SPAX screws. Was up for about three months. Most of it came
apart all right, but some of the heads spun right off and when they did
it wasn't possible to get the pieces apart without damaging them--the
screws were too hard for a Multimaster to cut and had enough thread in
both pieces to hold like the head was still on.

@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

If you did not use an impact driver to remove the screws you may want to
consider using one. While they are extremely strong compared to the
typical
same voltage drill, the impact action is much easier on the fastener.
Because the torque is not constant it gives the fastener a chance relax a
bit.

Used an impact driver going in and going out.


@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@


Crappy Spax screws I guess. I know screws don't hold up well out doors
unless specifically suited but I have used regular square drive out doors
and several years later they are still OK.

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...

On Fri, 13 May 2011 17:53:33 -0500, "Leon" lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

If you did not use an impact driver to remove the screws you may want to
consider using one. While they are extremely strong compared to the
typical
same voltage drill, the impact action is much easier on the fastener.
Because the torque is not constant it gives the fastener a chance relax a
bit.

Yeah, impacts practically -vibrate- the things loose. They are an
absolutely marvelous invention. I even spent Festool-like prices on my
Makita. (Nah, the prices were lower.)
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

I did a kitchen remodel about 6 years ago, the customer had puttied in the
old cabinet mounting screws so that you could not see the Philips head. My
impact driver seemed to dislodge the putty with out hesitation and the
drywall screws came right out. My drill with the same bit had no effect.

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
news
On Fri, 13 May 2011 11:52:59 -0500, "Leon" lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
.. .

On Fri, 13 May 2011 07:04:18 -0500, "Leon" lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

Mentioning that materials don't last these days, my dad has a gate in his
atrium that was built in 1974. I have had to replace the cedar posts on
both sides but the gate only looks a couple of years old. 37 years ain't
bad for a cedar picket gate, 8" wide pickets at that.

You guys use the term "picket" too loosely for my tastes. They're
usually 42" tall or less and 1x3 or 1x4". Like this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Cl...cket_Fence.JPG

Are you guys talking about plain old straight (or dog-eared) fencing
_boards_?

@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

Picket, the part that provides the privacy. Check out what your local
lumber yard or Borg calls them. A picket does not have size constraints.

http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/...atalogId=10053

scroll down.

Weird.


http://www.lowes.com/SearchCatalogDi...ogId=10051&N=0

scroll down

Ditto.


Even HD calls them "fence boards" on other pages. http://goo.gl/aT9pc

Every movie I've ever seen which mentioned a "white picket fence"
referred to the short, narrow, open-spaced style shown here.
http://goo.gl/LY8IM

@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

Do you believe every thing you see in a movie? ;~)

The key words you mention above, "white picket fence" describes a
particular type fence and picket.

When I hear cedar picket or PT picket fence I think 1x6x72 dog eared
pickets.

On Sat, 14 May 2011 08:08:18 -0500, "Leon" lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
news

Even HD calls them "fence boards" on other pages. http://goo.gl/aT9pc

Every movie I've ever seen which mentioned a "white picket fence"
referred to the short, narrow, open-spaced style shown here.
http://goo.gl/LY8IM

@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

Do you believe every thing you see in a movie? ;~)

Of course, as well as believing everything I read on the Internet.
Don't you?


The key words you mention above, "white picket fence" describes a
particular type fence and picket.

When I hear cedar picket or PT picket fence I think 1x6x72 dog eared
pickets.

You also have odd tastes in tools, eschewing HF.

--
It could probably be shown by facts and figures that there is no
distinctively native American criminal class except Congress.
-- Mark Twain

In article , lcb11211
@swbelldotnet says...

"J. Clarke" wrote in message
in.local...

In article , lcb11211
@swbelldotnet says...

"J. Clarke" wrote in message
in.local...

In article , lcb11211
@swbelldotnet says...

"Puckdropper" wrote in message
eb.com...

"Leon" lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in
:


Robert I think that once the typical "screw" person replaces a fence
he build 20 years prior he sees the light. ;~) I have screwed a
couple of 8' sections to close the gap between property lines and the
house in the front but after learning that you very seldom get away
with just replacing the pickets the screw idea is way over thought, or
under thought.

Ditto the galvanized ring shank nails on every thing.

I assume you use the round metal posts, thinking chain link, what
diameter posts are you using? The normal post or do you use the
terminal sized posts. I'm thinking the terminal posts.


I took some PT 2x6 decking up a few years ago that had been screwed
down.
Heads breaking off and spinning freely were a common happening. Some
pieces would come off with a large prybar, but others had to be cut off.

I'd expect the same thing to occur with a fence.
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

Probably right on that count unless you use those pretty stainless steel
or
deck screws and then you probably add several hundreds of dollars to
the
price of the fence.


A while back I put together some scaffolding from 2x lumber using
galvanized SPAX screws. Was up for about three months. Most of it came
apart all right, but some of the heads spun right off and when they did
it wasn't possible to get the pieces apart without damaging them--the
screws were too hard for a Multimaster to cut and had enough thread in
both pieces to hold like the head was still on.

@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

If you did not use an impact driver to remove the screws you may want to
consider using one. While they are extremely strong compared to the
typical
same voltage drill, the impact action is much easier on the fastener.
Because the torque is not constant it gives the fastener a chance relax a
bit.

Used an impact driver going in and going out.


@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@


Crappy Spax screws I guess. I know screws don't hold up well out doors
unless specifically suited but I have used regular square drive out doors
and several years later they are still OK.

Have you tried taking those screws out? If not, give it a shot and see
what happens.

They were SPAX brand which I have never heard anybody call "crappy".
They were holding up just fine. It's just that taking them out the
heads came off of some (maybe 1 out of 100). Even with the heads off
they were doing their job.

My point is not that there was any defect in the screws. My point is
that using a good brand of screw that was not corroded in any manner,
some were still not readily removable, so one should not count on ease
of disassembly as being a benefit of screws.

If you really want to be able to get it apart later without mangling it,
use machine screws, carriage bolts, elevator bolts, timber bolts, or
other fasteners which take nuts and put anti-seize on them.

"J. Clarke" wrote in message
in.local...

In article , lcb11211
@swbelldotnet says...

"J. Clarke" wrote in message
in.local...

In article , lcb11211
@swbelldotnet says...

"J. Clarke" wrote in message
in.local...

In article , lcb11211
@swbelldotnet says...

"Puckdropper" wrote in message
eb.com...

"Leon" lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in
:


Robert I think that once the typical "screw" person replaces a fence
he build 20 years prior he sees the light. ;~) I have screwed a
couple of 8' sections to close the gap between property lines and
the
house in the front but after learning that you very seldom get away
with just replacing the pickets the screw idea is way over thought,
or
under thought.

Ditto the galvanized ring shank nails on every thing.

I assume you use the round metal posts, thinking chain link, what
diameter posts are you using? The normal post or do you use the
terminal sized posts. I'm thinking the terminal posts.


I took some PT 2x6 decking up a few years ago that had been screwed
down.
Heads breaking off and spinning freely were a common happening. Some
pieces would come off with a large prybar, but others had to be cut
off.

I'd expect the same thing to occur with a fence.
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

Probably right on that count unless you use those pretty stainless
steel
or
deck screws and then you probably add several hundreds of dollars to
the
price of the fence.


A while back I put together some scaffolding from 2x lumber using
galvanized SPAX screws. Was up for about three months. Most of it came
apart all right, but some of the heads spun right off and when they did
it wasn't possible to get the pieces apart without damaging them--the
screws were too hard for a Multimaster to cut and had enough thread in
both pieces to hold like the head was still on.

@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

If you did not use an impact driver to remove the screws you may want to
consider using one. While they are extremely strong compared to the
typical
same voltage drill, the impact action is much easier on the fastener.
Because the torque is not constant it gives the fastener a chance relax
a
bit.

Used an impact driver going in and going out.


@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@


Crappy Spax screws I guess. I know screws don't hold up well out doors
unless specifically suited but I have used regular square drive out doors
and several years later they are still OK.

Have you tried taking those screws out? If not, give it a shot and see
what happens.

@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
Yes, I've yet to have one break off. But I will say they were manufactured
20+ years ago.

They were SPAX brand which I have never heard anybody call "crappy".
They were holding up just fine. It's just that taking them out the
heads came off of some (maybe 1 out of 100). Even with the heads off
they were doing their job.

@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

I did not meant to declare SPAX crappy, you may have gotten a crappy batch,
it happens.


My point is not that there was any defect in the screws. My point is
that using a good brand of screw that was not corroded in any manner,
some were still not readily removable, so one should not count on ease
of disassembly as being a benefit of screws.

@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

Agreed.

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...

On Sat, 14 May 2011 08:08:18 -0500, "Leon" lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
news

Even HD calls them "fence boards" on other pages. http://goo.gl/aT9pc

Every movie I've ever seen which mentioned a "white picket fence"
referred to the short, narrow, open-spaced style shown here.
http://goo.gl/LY8IM

@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

Do you believe every thing you see in a movie? ;~)

Of course, as well as believing everything I read on the Internet.
Don't you?

@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

Well heck yeah! LOL

"Leon" lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in message
...
"J. Clarke" wrote in message
in.local...

In article , lcb11211
@swbelldotnet says...

"J. Clarke" wrote in message
in.local...

In article , lcb11211
@swbelldotnet says...

"J. Clarke" wrote in message
in.local...

In article , lcb11211
@swbelldotnet says...

"Puckdropper" wrote in message
eb.com...

"Leon" lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in
:


Robert I think that once the typical "screw" person replaces a
fence
he build 20 years prior he sees the light. ;~) I have screwed a
couple of 8' sections to close the gap between property lines and
the
house in the front but after learning that you very seldom get away
with just replacing the pickets the screw idea is way over thought,
or
under thought.

Ditto the galvanized ring shank nails on every thing.

I assume you use the round metal posts, thinking chain link, what
diameter posts are you using? The normal post or do you use the
terminal sized posts. I'm thinking the terminal posts.


I took some PT 2x6 decking up a few years ago that had been screwed
down.
Heads breaking off and spinning freely were a common happening. Some
pieces would come off with a large prybar, but others had to be cut
off.

I'd expect the same thing to occur with a fence.
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Probably right on that count unless you use those pretty stainless
steel
or
deck screws and then you probably add several hundreds of dollars to
the
price of the fence.


A while back I put together some scaffolding from 2x lumber using
galvanized SPAX screws. Was up for about three months. Most of it
came
apart all right, but some of the heads spun right off and when they did
it wasn't possible to get the pieces apart without damaging them--the
screws were too hard for a Multimaster to cut and had enough thread in
both pieces to hold like the head was still on.

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If you did not use an impact driver to remove the screws you may want
to
consider using one. While they are extremely strong compared to the
typical
same voltage drill, the impact action is much easier on the fastener.
Because the torque is not constant it gives the fastener a chance relax
a
bit.

Used an impact driver going in and going out.


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Crappy Spax screws I guess. I know screws don't hold up well out doors
unless specifically suited but I have used regular square drive out doors
and several years later they are still OK.

Have you tried taking those screws out? If not, give it a shot and see
what happens.

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Yes, I've yet to have one break off. But I will say they were
manufactured 20+ years ago.

They were SPAX brand which I have never heard anybody call "crappy".
They were holding up just fine. It's just that taking them out the
heads came off of some (maybe 1 out of 100). Even with the heads off
they were doing their job.

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I did not meant to declare SPAX crappy, you may have gotten a crappy
batch, it happens.


My point is not that there was any defect in the screws. My point is
that using a good brand of screw that was not corroded in any manner,
some were still not readily removable, so one should not count on ease
of disassembly as being a benefit of screws.

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Agreed.


And I agree with everybody that you count on
nothing more than the probabilities developed
from actual experience and testing, yours or that of
someone more informed.

Regards,

Edward Hennessey

"J. Clarke" wrote

Used an impact driver going in and going out.

Try ceramic coated square or torx drive. They will not twist off.

-- Jim in NC

In article ,
says...

"J. Clarke" wrote

Used an impact driver going in and going out.

Try ceramic coated square or torx drive. They will not twist off.

Except when they do.