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#1
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Building a fence - Nailer?
SWMBO wants a fence.
Phase one is done - cutting down all of the pine trees that died over the winter. Phase two is done - SWMBO telling me I'm an idiot for not making the neighbor pay me for his trees I cut down and paid to have chipped. Phase three is done - found the property markers and roughed out where the fence will be. Phase four is done - Priced out the pressure treated lumber. I am going with a board-on-board or shadowbox fence with the 5/8x6" dog eared pickets. So my plan is to run three 8' 2x4s between each post laying flat so the rails are flush with the posts. Then use six nails per picket to put up the pickets. With 160' of fence I'll need about 400 pickets and 2,400 nails. I have a compressor with plenty of hose to get to the fence so... What kind/brand of gun do I need and what kind of nails/staples? |
#2
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Building a fence - Nailer?
Limp Arbor wrote:
SWMBO wants a fence. Phase one is done - cutting down all of the pine trees that died over the winter. Phase two is done - SWMBO telling me I'm an idiot for not making the neighbor pay me for his trees I cut down and paid to have chipped. Phase three is done - found the property markers and roughed out where the fence will be. Phase four is done - Priced out the pressure treated lumber. I am going with a board-on-board or shadowbox fence with the 5/8x6" dog eared pickets. So my plan is to run three 8' 2x4s between each post laying flat so the rails are flush with the posts. Then use six nails per picket to put up the pickets. With 160' of fence I'll need about 400 pickets and 2,400 nails. I have a compressor with plenty of hose to get to the fence so... What kind/brand of gun do I need and what kind of nails/staples? On my past fences I used screws. The last one I used 1/2" crown galvanized staples and It was much faster and has been just as stable. I would go with 1/8" spacing--just to have a little leeway to adjust for plumb when needed. The pickets will shrink and the gap will always get larger with time. I usually lay a 2 x 4 on the ground to rest the pickets on, then remove it. Soil seems to build up under a fence, and once it touches the fence rot starts. If you worry about dogs digging under the fence, dig a shallow trench between posts under the fence line and fill it with sackrete. This also helps keep weeds from popping up under the fence. If your sprinkler wets one side of the fence the boards will warp DAMHIKT. -- Gerald Ross Cochran, GA 24 hours in a day, 24 beers in a case. Coincidence? |
#3
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Building a fence - Nailer?
The crown staples I have used all rust after a few years in the wood.
Nothing looks worse than rust running down a board. I use them many other places but not on a rain exposed wood. I built an all cedar fence once and the nails wouldn't stay in that wood if my life depended on it. The fance board ended up screwed to hold them. Even the posts were so light they rose out of the ground about 2 inches every spring from the frost lift. So much for having posts over 4 feet deep below the frost line. They pounded back down each year easily enough, though. -------------- "Gerald Ross" wrote in message ... On my past fences I used screws. The last one I used 1/2" crown galvanized staples and It was much faster and has been just as stable. I would go with 1/8" spacing--just to have a little leeway to adjust for plumb when needed. The pickets will shrink and the gap will always get larger with time. I usually lay a 2 x 4 on the ground to rest the pickets on, then remove it. Soil seems to build up under a fence, and once it touches the fence rot starts. If you worry about dogs digging under the fence, dig a shallow trench between posts under the fence line and fill it with sackrete. This also helps keep weeds from popping up under the fence. If your sprinkler wets one side of the fence the boards will warp DAMHIKT. -- Gerald Ross Cochran, GA 24 hours in a day, 24 beers in a case. Coincidence? |
#4
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Building a fence - Nailer?
"Limp Arbor" wrote in message ... SWMBO wants a fence. Phase one is done - cutting down all of the pine trees that died over the winter. Phase two is done - SWMBO telling me I'm an idiot for not making the neighbor pay me for his trees I cut down and paid to have chipped. Phase three is done - found the property markers and roughed out where the fence will be. Phase four is done - Priced out the pressure treated lumber. I am going with a board-on-board or shadowbox fence with the 5/8x6" dog eared pickets. So my plan is to run three 8' 2x4s between each post laying flat so the rails are flush with the posts. Then use six nails per picket to put up the pickets. With 160' of fence I'll need about 400 pickets and 2,400 nails. I have a compressor with plenty of hose to get to the fence so... What kind/brand of gun do I need and what kind of nails/staples? LA: I haven't checked the wind loading on a shadowbox arrangement but I think it will be quite low, so there should be no problem there. Spacing in front will be a factor in the above and determine how much--or if-- someone can see into your yard on a diagonal perspective. I'd use screws Others have discussed options. Depending on how long you intend to grace the planet with your presence, own the property or the wetness in you climate, you may want to think on the heavier-duty, metal U post hangers to fix the posts in concrete. You balance the additonal outlay against your use. Whatever you do, taper the concret down and away from any installet elements for drainage. Certain HD stores also stock plastic-wood composite pickets in russet and faded green. No painting allowed and termites forbidden. They're about a dollar to half that again more than natural competition. If they weigh less and you check out the other specs, it might earn a pondering. As to nail guns, a great warranty and good reviews would be more significant to me than grand praise and a short guarantee. If you buy a gun from some independents, they will sometimes make you a good package deal when you buy a large nail order concurrently, hoping you'll be in every week for more nails. But, check around. Regards, Edward Hennessey |
#5
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Building a fence - Nailer?
On Wed, 11 May 2011 17:18:40 -0700, "Edward Hennessey"
wrote: "Limp Arbor" wrote in message ... SWMBO wants a fence. Phase one is done - cutting down all of the pine trees that died over the winter. Phase two is done - SWMBO telling me I'm an idiot for not making the neighbor pay me for his trees I cut down and paid to have chipped. Phase three is done - found the property markers and roughed out where the fence will be. Phase four is done - Priced out the pressure treated lumber. I am going with a board-on-board or shadowbox fence with the 5/8x6" dog eared pickets. So my plan is to run three 8' 2x4s between each post laying flat so the rails are flush with the posts. Then use six nails per picket to put up the pickets. With 160' of fence I'll need about 400 pickets and 2,400 nails. I have a compressor with plenty of hose to get to the fence so... What kind/brand of gun do I need and what kind of nails/staples? LA: I haven't checked the wind loading on a shadowbox arrangement but I think it will be quite low, so there should be no problem there. I'd think they'd have nearly the same loading as the solid fence, say 90% as a WAG. Spacing in front will be a factor in the above and determine how much--or if-- someone can see into your yard on a diagonal perspective. I'd use screws Others have discussed options. Cat/rat/coon/possum/ferret-friendly fences. Depending on how long you intend to grace the planet with your presence, own the property or the wetness in you climate, you may want to think on the heavier-duty, metal U post hangers to fix the posts in concrete. You balance the additonal outlay against your use. Whatever you do, taper the concret down and away from any installet elements for drainage. If I were building a fence for myself today, I's use steel set into concrete to hold the posts proud of the ground altogether. Today's PT lumber is pure ****. The treating only goes 1/8" into the wood, and any cut exposes untreated timber to the elements. Then they did away with the brown-dyed preservative and made it illegal to color or concoct your own brew for the same use. Goddamned EPA... Certain HD stores also stock plastic-wood composite pickets in russet and faded green. No painting allowed and termites forbidden. They're about a dollar to half that again more than natural competition. If they weigh less and you check out the other specs, it might earn a pondering. They're all 2 to 3 times the weight of kiln dried lumber, Ed. -- Woe be to him that reads but one book. -- George Herbert |
#6
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Building a fence - Nailer?
"Larry Jaques" wrote in message ... On Wed, 11 May 2011 17:18:40 -0700, "Edward Hennessey" wrote: "Limp Arbor" wrote in message ... SWMBO wants a fence. Phase one is done - cutting down all of the pine trees that died over the winter. Phase two is done - SWMBO telling me I'm an idiot for not making the neighbor pay me for his trees I cut down and paid to have chipped. Phase three is done - found the property markers and roughed out where the fence will be. Phase four is done - Priced out the pressure treated lumber. I am going with a board-on-board or shadowbox fence with the 5/8x6" dog eared pickets. So my plan is to run three 8' 2x4s between each post laying flat so the rails are flush with the posts. Then use six nails per picket to put up the pickets. With 160' of fence I'll need about 400 pickets and 2,400 nails. I have a compressor with plenty of hose to get to the fence so... What kind/brand of gun do I need and what kind of nails/staples? LA: LJ: I haven't checked the wind loading on a shadowbox arrangement but I think it will be quite low, so there should be no problem there. I'd think they'd have nearly the same loading as the solid fence, say 90% as a WAG. Though nothing is at hand to detail the point, one time I put up a fence where the goal was to minimize backside air turbulence on a space "roofed" by shade cloth. A treatment turned up that dicussed various design alternatives in terms of numbers and dispersion patterns that were comprehensive and surprisingly different, pivoting around things like seemingly minor changes in paling spacing. It was impressive. I obeyed. And it paid off like a charm. That experience implies the data for something more mainstream like wind load will be out there. Whether that is important to the OP's location... who knows? Spacing in front will be a factor in the above and determine how much--or if-- someone can see into your yard on a diagonal perspective. I'd use screws Others have discussed options. Cat/rat/coon/possum/ferret-friendly fences. Not to print the name of "rattlesnake" in that company. Depending on how long you intend to grace the planet with your presence, own the property or the wetness in you climate, you may want to think on the heavier-duty, metal U post hangers to fix the posts in concrete. You balance the additonal outlay against your use. Whatever you do, taper the concret down and away from any installet elements for drainage. If I were building a fence for myself today, I's use steel set into concrete to hold the posts proud of the ground altogether. Today's PT lumber is pure ****. The treating only goes 1/8" into the wood, and any cut exposes untreated timber to the elements. Then they did away with the brown-dyed preservative and made it illegal to color or concoct your own brew for the same use. Goddamned EPA... Ditto. Ditto. Before I went metal, I paid a visit to the local Parks and Recreation people after observing them using substantial brackets and heavy angle with bolts on posts. A kind man said their failure rate--if not allowed to rust--was a number you could count in percent with a few fingers. That's in an abusive, public environment. Sure, it's another 5-6 or so frogskins a post. The alternative method tolls a bit more for replacement. Another factor is to cure the concrete for as long as you can against shrinkage and cracking. Don't load it for awhile. Try to avoid hot weather when pouring. Cover it with an absorptive cloth. Put a gallon jug of water on it with some weeping pinholes and wet it periodically if that is called for. It's a drag. But that will be the end of it. Certain HD stores also stock plastic-wood composite pickets in russet and faded green. No painting allowed and termites forbidden. They're about a dollar to half that again more than natural competition. If they weigh less and you check out the other specs, it might earn a pondering. They're all 2 to 3 times the weight of kiln dried lumber, Ed. Good to know, Larry. Regards, Edward Hennessey |
#7
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Building a fence - Nailer?
On Wed, 11 May 2011 23:15:38 -0700, "Edward Hennessey"
wrote: "Larry Jaques" wrote in message .. . On Wed, 11 May 2011 17:18:40 -0700, "Edward Hennessey" wrote: "Limp Arbor" wrote in message ... SWMBO wants a fence. Phase one is done - cutting down all of the pine trees that died over the winter. Phase two is done - SWMBO telling me I'm an idiot for not making the neighbor pay me for his trees I cut down and paid to have chipped. Phase three is done - found the property markers and roughed out where the fence will be. Phase four is done - Priced out the pressure treated lumber. I am going with a board-on-board or shadowbox fence with the 5/8x6" dog eared pickets. So my plan is to run three 8' 2x4s between each post laying flat so the rails are flush with the posts. Then use six nails per picket to put up the pickets. With 160' of fence I'll need about 400 pickets and 2,400 nails. I have a compressor with plenty of hose to get to the fence so... What kind/brand of gun do I need and what kind of nails/staples? LA: LJ: I haven't checked the wind loading on a shadowbox arrangement but I think it will be quite low, so there should be no problem there. I'd think they'd have nearly the same loading as the solid fence, say 90% as a WAG. Though nothing is at hand to detail the point, one time I put up a fence where the goal was to minimize backside air turbulence on a space "roofed" by shade cloth. A treatment turned up that dicussed various design alternatives in terms of numbers and dispersion patterns that were comprehensive and surprisingly different, pivoting around things like seemingly minor changes in paling spacing. It was impressive. I obeyed. And it paid off like a charm. Cool. I'm happily living in an average 3mph wind area. Every time I go up to the mountains, I remember why I don't want a hilltop home. It's too bloody windy up there! That experience implies the data for something more mainstream like wind load will be out there. Whether that is important to the OP's location... who knows? We may be hearing that from him soon. Spacing in front will be a factor in the above and determine how much--or if-- someone can see into your yard on a diagonal perspective. I'd use screws Others have discussed options. Cat/rat/coon/possum/ferret-friendly fences. Not to print the name of "rattlesnake" in that company. Yeah, those fences are snake-friendly, too. Depending on how long you intend to grace the planet with your presence, own the property or the wetness in you climate, you may want to think on the heavier-duty, metal U post hangers to fix the posts in concrete. You balance the additonal outlay against your use. Whatever you do, taper the concret down and away from any installet elements for drainage. If I were building a fence for myself today, I's use steel set into concrete to hold the posts proud of the ground altogether. Today's PT lumber is pure ****. The treating only goes 1/8" into the wood, and any cut exposes untreated timber to the elements. Then they did away with the brown-dyed preservative and made it illegal to color or concoct your own brew for the same use. Goddamned EPA... Ditto. Ditto. Before I went metal, I paid a visit to the local Parks and Recreation people after observing them using substantial brackets and heavy angle with bolts on posts. A kind man said their failure rate--if not allowed to rust--was a number you could count in percent with a few fingers. That's in an abusive, public environment. Sure, it's another 5-6 or so frogskins a post. The alternative method tolls a bit more for replacement. Yeah, park fences take a helluva lot of abuse. Another factor is to cure the concrete for as long as you can against shrinkage and cracking. Don't load it for awhile. Try to avoid hot weather when pouring. Cover it with an absorptive cloth. Put a gallon jug of water on it with some weeping pinholes and wet it periodically if that is called for. It's a drag. But that will be the end of it. I always give fence posts at least a couple days to cure. Ideally, a week would be better, but try to tell that to the lady who wants a fence up around her kids. Certain HD stores also stock plastic-wood composite pickets in russet and faded green. No painting allowed and termites forbidden. They're about a dollar to half that again more than natural competition. If they weigh less and you check out the other specs, it might earn a pondering. They're all 2 to 3 times the weight of kiln dried lumber, Ed. Good to know, Larry. I'm glad my clients are too cheap to use that stuff. -- Woe be to him that reads but one book. -- George Herbert |
#8
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Building a fence - Nailer?
Nailer?
.. .. I hardly know her! |
#9
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Building a fence - Nailer?
Limp Arbor" wrote:
SWMBO wants a fence. Unless you want to be a slave to a wooden fence, build it out of reclaimed HDPE. Here is one source in Green Bay, WI. http://tinyurl.com/y976voo Lew |
#10
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Building a fence - Nailer?
On Wed, 11 May 2011 07:36:49 -0700 (PDT), Limp Arbor
wrote: SWMBO wants a fence. Phase one is done - cutting down all of the pine trees that died over the winter. Phase two is done - SWMBO telling me I'm an idiot for not making the neighbor pay me for his trees I cut down and paid to have chipped. Phase three is done - found the property markers and roughed out where the fence will be. Phase four is done - Priced out the pressure treated lumber. I am going with a board-on-board or shadowbox fence with the 5/8x6" dog eared pickets. So my plan is to run three 8' 2x4s between each post laying flat so the rails are flush with the posts. Then use six nails per picket to put up the pickets. With 160' of fence I'll need about 400 pickets and 2,400 nails. I have a compressor with plenty of hose to get to the fence so... What kind/brand of gun do I need and what kind of nails/staples? Ideally, you'll want an impact driver and coated or stainless screws, not nails. They allow for easy removal and replacement as (not if) they're destroyed. It's a bit more expensive and time consuming, but the advantages outweigh those, unless you're painting the fence, which is even more expensive. If you do go with nails, they'll rust and discolor the fence unless you buy stainless nails. If you go with a brad nailer and stainless brads, the first kid who tries to climb over it will accidentally pull off a board. From then on, more will come down for wholesale access. I'd be perfectly happy to use a HF 15ga gun with stainless brads (not available from HF) if I were to make the mistake of nailing up a fence. -- Woe be to him that reads but one book. -- George Herbert |
#11
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Building a fence - Nailer?
"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
... On Wed, 11 May 2011 07:36:49 -0700 (PDT), Limp Arbor wrote: SWMBO wants a fence. Phase one is done - cutting down all of the pine trees that died over the winter. Phase two is done - SWMBO telling me I'm an idiot for not making the neighbor pay me for his trees I cut down and paid to have chipped. Phase three is done - found the property markers and roughed out where the fence will be. Phase four is done - Priced out the pressure treated lumber. I am going with a board-on-board or shadowbox fence with the 5/8x6" dog eared pickets. So my plan is to run three 8' 2x4s between each post laying flat so the rails are flush with the posts. Then use six nails per picket to put up the pickets. With 160' of fence I'll need about 400 pickets and 2,400 nails. I have a compressor with plenty of hose to get to the fence so... What kind/brand of gun do I need and what kind of nails/staples? Ideally, you'll want an impact driver and coated or stainless screws, not nails. They allow for easy removal and replacement as (not if) they're destroyed. It's a bit more expensive and time consuming, but the advantages outweigh those, unless you're painting the fence, which is even more expensive. Cant say that I have ever seen a fence where the posts and rails did not need to be replaced when the picket did. Typically the post and rail may look OK but they are not going to out last the second round of pickets. Better to simply replace every thing and nail it all up cause you might as well not invest more time than necessary considering it will all have to be replaced. |
#12
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Building a fence - Nailer?
On May 11, 10:17*pm, "Leon" lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:
Cant say that I have ever seen a fence where the posts and rails did not need to be replaced when the picket did. *Typically the post and rail may look OK but they are not going to out last the second round of pickets. Better to simply replace every thing and nail it all up cause you might as well not invest more time than necessary considering it will all have to be replaced. Couldn't agree more. Gone are the days of wooden fences lasting 20 years or more. I put a standard three rail fence, and if I can get them to spring for the dough, I use the metal posts and brackets. However, sometimes the neighbors don't like the looks (not everyone lives in the country) so they want all wood. I get the best pickets I can from a cedar supplier here in town. They are a bit more expensive, but in the end cost about the same as the standard junk you buy as the waste goes down quite a bit. I shoot them on with galvanized ring shanked nails, with the gun set to slightly sink them. They don't pull out. When replacing a picket, the cedar picket will come off, but the nails remain. I tap them in, and put on a new one with a hand driven 6d cold galvanized ring shank. I don't have the time, the inclination, or see the benefit of the extra effort or cost screwing a fence together. But then again, that's just me. YMMV. Robert |
#13
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Building a fence - Nailer?
wrote in message
... On May 11, 10:17 pm, "Leon" lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote: Cant say that I have ever seen a fence where the posts and rails did not need to be replaced when the picket did. Typically the post and rail may look OK but they are not going to out last the second round of pickets. Better to simply replace every thing and nail it all up cause you might as well not invest more time than necessary considering it will all have to be replaced. Couldn't agree more. Gone are the days of wooden fences lasting 20 years or more. I put a standard three rail fence, and if I can get them to spring for the dough, I use the metal posts and brackets. However, sometimes the neighbors don't like the looks (not everyone lives in the country) so they want all wood. I get the best pickets I can from a cedar supplier here in town. They are a bit more expensive, but in the end cost about the same as the standard junk you buy as the waste goes down quite a bit. I shoot them on with galvanized ring shanked nails, with the gun set to slightly sink them. They don't pull out. When replacing a picket, the cedar picket will come off, but the nails remain. I tap them in, and put on a new one with a hand driven 6d cold galvanized ring shank. I don't have the time, the inclination, or see the benefit of the extra effort or cost screwing a fence together. But then again, that's just me. YMMV. Robert @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ Robert I think that once the typical "screw" person replaces a fence he build 20 years prior he sees the light. ;~) I have screwed a couple of 8' sections to close the gap between property lines and the house in the front but after learning that you very seldom get away with just replacing the pickets the screw idea is way over thought, or under thought. Ditto the galvanized ring shank nails on every thing. I assume you use the round metal posts, thinking chain link, what diameter posts are you using? The normal post or do you use the terminal sized posts. I'm thinking the terminal posts. |
#14
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Building a fence - Nailer?
"Leon" lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in
: Robert I think that once the typical "screw" person replaces a fence he build 20 years prior he sees the light. ;~) I have screwed a couple of 8' sections to close the gap between property lines and the house in the front but after learning that you very seldom get away with just replacing the pickets the screw idea is way over thought, or under thought. Ditto the galvanized ring shank nails on every thing. I assume you use the round metal posts, thinking chain link, what diameter posts are you using? The normal post or do you use the terminal sized posts. I'm thinking the terminal posts. I took some PT 2x6 decking up a few years ago that had been screwed down. Heads breaking off and spinning freely were a common happening. Some pieces would come off with a large prybar, but others had to be cut off. I'd expect the same thing to occur with a fence. Puckdropper |
#15
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Building a fence - Nailer?
On May 13, 7:00 am, "Leon" lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:
I assume you use the round metal posts, thinking chain link, what diameter posts are you using? The normal post or do you use the terminal sized posts. I'm thinking the terminal posts. Go to google, click on "Images" for your search. Type in " postmaster fence posts " and you will see the exact product I am talking about. Don't think these are flimsy. They are really heavy duty and almost 3/16" thick. They are galvanized, can be covered or painted. You screw on the rails with deck screws, and nail the pickets. It makes a very strong fence and the back side with the screws can be covered up with a picket or small trim piece over the rail itself, giving the appearance of being a wood post. My fence guy has been using this for his municipal work for years now, and everyone seems quite pleased. He still uses cedar posts or 4X4 recycled plastic posts (unless I want to spring for the metal) on either side of a gate. Like the old timers did around here for years, when using cedar 4X4s, I take roofing mastic (tar, plastic cement) and trowel on a thin layer about 3" from the bottom of the post before setting them in concrete to help their water resistance and resistance to bugs/water at the point of contact to air at the soil level. When using this system for the state/county/muninciple guys, they love this system as they can easily replace damage sections by simply pulling out the screws and letting whole sections drop. It also makes it easy to remove and replace if a section has to be removed for machine access like a skid steer loader. If you have a McCoy's in Houston, you should have them there. That's where the "Postmaster" fence post products are available here. Robert |
#16
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Building a fence - Nailer?
Mentioning that materials don't last these days, my dad has a gate in his
atrium that was built in 1974. I have had to replace the cedar posts on both sides but the gate only looks a couple of years old. 37 years ain't bad for a cedar picket gate, 8" wide pickets at that. |
#17
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Building a fence - Nailer?
On Fri, 13 May 2011 07:04:18 -0500, "Leon" lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote: Mentioning that materials don't last these days, my dad has a gate in his atrium that was built in 1974. I have had to replace the cedar posts on both sides but the gate only looks a couple of years old. 37 years ain't bad for a cedar picket gate, 8" wide pickets at that. You guys use the term "picket" too loosely for my tastes. They're usually 42" tall or less and 1x3 or 1x4". Like this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Cl...cket_Fence.JPG Are you guys talking about plain old straight (or dog-eared) fencing _boards_? -- If we attend continually and promptly to the little that we can do, we shall ere long be surprised to find how little remains that we cannot do. -- Samuel Butler |
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