I want to have a go at using a solid surface counter top on cabinets
I'm building. Can anybody tell me if I can buy this stuff by the
sheet?
Mike

IIRC, most companies only sell to authorized installers and
distributors. Maybe that has changed, now that so many different types
are being sold. They don't want amateurs trying to work with the stuff.
But a few years back, I found a place that sold sheets. The max size
was 18x48. Maybe you could try looking in the back of home improvement
mags, that how I found my place. I'm not sure if they are still
around.... Mark L.

wrote:
I want to have a go at using a solid surface counter top on cabinets
I'm building. Can anybody tell me if I can buy this stuff by the
sheet?
Mike

Several years ago, I had thoughts of several craft and scroll saw projects
using Corian. I was unable to buy Corian, so those projects fell of the
project list.

We are having our kitchen re-modeled and last Thursday when the Corian man
was here to make templates for our countertops, he said his company does
sell the Corian now. However, he said they will not/can not sell the glue
that allows seamless countertops to be fabricated. This seems like a change
from what I had been told several years ago. II have not stopped by his
company to buy any Corian to verify his story. Maybe later this year I
resurrect those old projects.....

Jack


"Mark L." wrote in message
m...
IIRC, most companies only sell to authorized installers and
distributors. Maybe that has changed, now that so many different types
are being sold. They don't want amateurs trying to work with the stuff.
But a few years back, I found a place that sold sheets. The max size
was 18x48. Maybe you could try looking in the back of home improvement
mags, that how I found my place. I'm not sure if they are still
around.... Mark L.

wrote:
I want to have a go at using a solid surface counter top on cabinets
I'm building. Can anybody tell me if I can buy this stuff by the
sheet?
Mike

That's good to know. I did use Corian to top off a radiator cover a few
years back and it worked well. Didn't want tiles, cuz plants are on top
and it does see water, plus the Corian looks very close to granite.
Luckily, the sheet I bought was large enough to cover without having to
join pieces together.
Mark L.

John Flatley wrote:
Several years ago, I had thoughts of several craft and scroll saw projects
using Corian. I was unable to buy Corian, so those projects fell of the
project list.

We are having our kitchen re-modeled and last Thursday when the Corian man
was here to make templates for our countertops, he said his company does
sell the Corian now. However, he said they will not/can not sell the glue
that allows seamless countertops to be fabricated. This seems like a change
from what I had been told several years ago. II have not stopped by his
company to buy any Corian to verify his story. Maybe later this year I
resurrect those old projects.....

Jack


"Mark L." wrote in message
m...

IIRC, most companies only sell to authorized installers and
distributors. Maybe that has changed, now that so many different types
are being sold. They don't want amateurs trying to work with the stuff.
But a few years back, I found a place that sold sheets. The max size
was 18x48. Maybe you could try looking in the back of home improvement
mags, that how I found my place. I'm not sure if they are still
around.... Mark L.

wrote:

I want to have a go at using a solid surface counter top on cabinets
I'm building. Can anybody tell me if I can buy this stuff by the
sheet?
Mike

John Flatley wrote:

Several years ago, I had thoughts of several craft and scroll saw projects
using Corian. I was unable to buy Corian, so those projects fell of the
project list.

We are having our kitchen re-modeled and last Thursday when the Corian man
was here to make templates for our countertops, he said his company does
sell the Corian now. However, he said they will not/can not sell the glue
that allows seamless countertops to be fabricated. This seems like a
change
from what I had been told several years ago. II have not stopped by his
company to buy any Corian to verify his story. Maybe later this year I
resurrect those old projects.....

I find myself wondering what's so important about the glue.
Solvent-cementing of acrylic is hardly any deep dark secret, and I
understand that working the stuff makes plenty of dust for filler--if it
doesn't, one can always take a belt sander to a scrap.

Jack


"Mark L." wrote in message
m...
IIRC, most companies only sell to authorized installers and
distributors. Maybe that has changed, now that so many different types
are being sold. They don't want amateurs trying to work with the stuff.
But a few years back, I found a place that sold sheets. The max size
was 18x48. Maybe you could try looking in the back of home improvement
mags, that how I found my place. I'm not sure if they are still
around.... Mark L.

wrote:
I want to have a go at using a solid surface counter top on cabinets
I'm building. Can anybody tell me if I can buy this stuff by the
sheet?
Mike


--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

J. Clarke wrote:
I find myself wondering what's so important about the glue.
Solvent-cementing of acrylic is hardly any deep dark secret, and I
understand that working the stuff makes plenty of dust for filler--if it
doesn't, one can always take a belt sander to a scrap.



It's not the seam kits that are some great dark secret but
what people will do with them if they could get them and
that's pretty much make and install Corian improperly thus
causing DuPont more headaches than they really care to
deal with. As it's set up they can control quality by
making sure everyone who uses it has been properly
trained.

Also, by limiting the number of fabricators in an area
DuPont is able to keep it's core of customers more healthy.

Might sound un-American (limiting distribution) but it's
their product and their's to do with what they think best
and so far I've yet to see DuPont losing money on Corian
or hear any of their fabricators ****ing and moaning about
the arrangement.

UA100

Unisaw A100 wrote:

J. Clarke wrote:
I find myself wondering what's so important about the glue.
Solvent-cementing of acrylic is hardly any deep dark secret, and I
understand that working the stuff makes plenty of dust for filler--if it
doesn't, one can always take a belt sander to a scrap.



It's not the seam kits that are some great dark secret but
what people will do with them if they could get them and
that's pretty much make and install Corian improperly thus
causing DuPont more headaches than they really care to
deal with. As it's set up they can control quality by
making sure everyone who uses it has been properly
trained.

Also, by limiting the number of fabricators in an area
DuPont is able to keep it's core of customers more healthy.

Might sound un-American (limiting distribution) but it's
their product and their's to do with what they think best
and so far I've yet to see DuPont losing money on Corian
or hear any of their fabricators ****ing and moaning about
the arrangement.

The point is that unless there's something I'm missing anybody with a can of
methylene chloride and a power sander don't NEED no steenkeeng SEAM KIT.

UA100

--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

J. Clarke wrote:
The point is that unless there's something I'm missing anybody with a can of
methylene chloride and a power sander don't NEED no steenkeeng SEAM KIT.


Okee dokee, if you say so.

UA100

On Sun, 30 May 2004 11:54:49 GMT, Unisaw A100
wrote:

J. Clarke wrote:
The point is that unless there's something I'm missing anybody with a can of
methylene chloride and a power sander don't NEED no steenkeeng SEAM KIT.


Okee dokee, if you say so.


UA100


This is exactly why Dupont licenses installers and fabricators. So
that people don't screw things up and ruin the brand name in the
process.

watson-licensed since shortly after earl flynn died.




Regards,
Tom.

Thomas J.Watson - Cabinetmaker (ret.)
tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (real email)
http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1

Tom Watson wrote:
This is exactly why Dupont licenses installers and fabricators. So
that people don't screw things up and ruin the brand name in the
process.

That's kinda/sorta the point i was trying to make. Thanks
for confirming it didn't go over everyone's heads.

watson-licensed since shortly after earl flynn died.

UA100, not licensed and Earl Flynn is still dead...

On Sun, 30 May 2004 09:15:27 -0400, Tom Watson wrote:


This is exactly why Dupont licenses installers and fabricators. So that
people don't screw things up and ruin the brand name in the process.

watson-licensed since shortly after earl flynn died.

Was he related to Errol Flynn?

--
"A government that robs Peter to pay Paul can always
depend on the support of Paul." - George Bernard Shaw

Tom Watson wrote:

On Sun, 30 May 2004 11:54:49 GMT, Unisaw A100
wrote:

J. Clarke wrote:
The point is that unless there's something I'm missing anybody with a can
of methylene chloride and a power sander don't NEED no steenkeeng SEAM
KIT.


Okee dokee, if you say so.


UA100


This is exactly why Dupont licenses installers and fabricators. So
that people don't screw things up and ruin the brand name in the
process.

watson-licensed since shortly after earl flynn died.

I note that neither of you has given any indication that solvent cementing
using methylene chloride and Corian dust will be unsatisfactory in any
manner whatsoever. Do you have any reason to believe that it will?

Regards,
Tom.

Thomas J.Watson - Cabinetmaker (ret.)
tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (real email)
http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1

--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

wrote in message
...
I want to have a go at using a solid surface counter top on cabinets
I'm building. Can anybody tell me if I can buy this stuff by the
sheet?
Mike

You probably won't have any luck getting the Corian/Dupont brand. I haven't
had any trouble buying the Formica brand SS, but I'm just getting their
sheet stock. Another product "Amerite?" is available from the maker - I've
no experience with it.

Doug Winterburn wrote:
On Sun, 30 May 2004 09:15:27 -0400, Tom Watson wrote:



This is exactly why Dupont licenses installers and fabricators. So that
people don't screw things up and ruin the brand name in the process.

watson-licensed since shortly after earl flynn died.


Was he related to Errol Flynn?

Leon Errol.

On Sun, 30 May 2004 16:00:56 GMT, Doug Winterburn
wrote:

On Sun, 30 May 2004 09:15:27 -0400, Tom Watson wrote:


This is exactly why Dupont licenses installers and fabricators. So that
people don't screw things up and ruin the brand name in the process.

watson-licensed since shortly after earl flynn died.

Was he related to Errol Flynn?

You know, they often call him Speedo but his real name is Mr. Earl.




Regards,
Tom.

Thomas J.Watson - Cabinetmaker (ret.)
tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (real email)
http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1

On Sun, 30 May 2004 12:16:12 -0400, "J. Clarke"
wrote:



I note that neither of you has given any indication that solvent cementing
using methylene chloride and Corian dust will be unsatisfactory in any
manner whatsoever. Do you have any reason to believe that it will?


The problem that I'm having with this is that you are fixating on the
chemistry, to the exclusion of other considerations.

What about the selection of the sheets for color matching?

What about the proper type and preparation of the substrate?

What about the choice of choice of acceptable methods to cut the
sheets?

What about the proper tolerances for straightness and the gap between
joined sheets?

What about the proper clamping pressure at the seam?

What about how much to overfill the seam and what techniques are best
to deal with that?

What about the proper radius that's allowed in the cutouts?

In areas where cutouts are for stovetops, there is a specific 3M tape
that is used as a backer at the seam - what kind is it?

What about the mixing time of the seam kit? Should you knead by hand,
or put the tube in the clamp on you half-sheet sander, and run the
sander for how long?

Speaking of sanders, what is the best type to use and what grits
should you start with?

What type of abrasive is best?

If you want to bring it up to a gloss, what grits and compounds are
used to do this?


The above is certainly not an exhaustive listing - merely a friendly
warning.



Regards,
Tom.

Thomas J.Watson - Cabinetmaker (ret.)
tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (real email)
http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1

J. Clarke wrote:
I note that neither of you has given any indication that solvent cementing
using methylene chloride and Corian dust will be unsatisfactory in any
manner whatsoever. Do you have any reason to believe that it will?


Only by DuPont's standards.

UA100

Eric Ryder wrote:
Another product "Amerite?" is available from the maker


Avonite.

UA100

Tom Watson wrote:
mucho snippage...



And while way wordier than what I'd written what Tom is
really trying to say is, "Only by DuPont's standards".

UA100

On Sun, 30 May 2004 17:39:15 GMT, Unisaw A100
wrote:

And while way wordier than what I'd written what Tom is
really trying to say is, "Only by DuPont's standards".

UA100


I wouldn't want to leave the man with the impression that Dupont's
seam kit is nothing more than meth chloride and some Corian dust.

It's really a two part epoxy mixture that has to be mixed before
application and has to fill the entire seam - top to bottom and front
to back - once the joint is closed up.

The meth chloride and dust would partially dissolve the Corian but the
result would have no strength and a crack line would eventually form.


Regards,
Tom.

Thomas J.Watson - Cabinetmaker (ret.)
tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (real email)
http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1

On Sun, 30 May 2004 17:36:40 GMT, Unisaw A100
wrote:

Eric Ryder wrote:
Another product "Amerite?" is available from the maker


Avonite.

UA100


Yep, and the Avonite is a polyester based product and needs different
treatment than Corian, which is acrylic based.

watson-who had to go to Avonite school, too - but doesn't remember if
they only let licensed fabricators buy it - because soon after Watson
learned all about Corian and Avonite - everybody started to spec
granite - sigh...



Regards,
Tom.

Thomas J.Watson - Cabinetmaker (ret.)
tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (real email)
http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1

On Sun, 30 May 2004 14:26:34 -0400, Tom Watson wrote:

On Sun, 30 May 2004 17:36:40 GMT, Unisaw A100
wrote:

Eric Ryder wrote:
Another product "Amerite?" is available from the maker


Avonite.

UA100


Yep, and the Avonite is a polyester based product and needs different
treatment than Corian, which is acrylic based.

watson-who had to go to Avonite school, too - but doesn't remember if
they only let licensed fabricators buy it - because soon after Watson
learned all about Corian and Avonite - everybody started to spec
granite - sigh...



Speaking of which, at a tangent, we had been considering granite for our
kitchen. Now, however, it appears that quartz is also a viable material
and less porous than even granite. However, when doing a search for quartz
countertops, or even "natural" quartz countertops, I get all sorts of hits
in which claims are made for things like "silestone" and a couple of other
products are "natural quartz" One has to read the fine print really,
really closely to identify that these are composite materials using
"natural quartz" in some sort of binder. Yet the big print yells "NATURAL
QUARTZ"! Gettin' kind of frustrating trying to find some web pages with
examples of real quartz countertops -- and by real I mean, honest, no
kidding, cut from the quarry solid quartz -- not something ground up and
reformulated with new colors in an attractive plastic binder.

On Sun, 30 May 2004 20:36:39 GMT, Mark & Juanita
wrote:

snip

Speaking of which, at a tangent, we had been considering granite for our
kitchen. Now, however, it appears that quartz is also a viable material
and less porous than even granite. However, when doing a search for quartz
countertops, or even "natural" quartz countertops, I get all sorts of hits
in which claims are made for things like "silestone" and a couple of other
products are "natural quartz" One has to read the fine print really,
really closely to identify that these are composite materials using
"natural quartz" in some sort of binder. Yet the big print yells "NATURAL
QUARTZ"! Gettin' kind of frustrating trying to find some web pages with
examples of real quartz countertops -- and by real I mean, honest, no
kidding, cut from the quarry solid quartz -- not something ground up and
reformulated with new colors in an attractive plastic binder.

I don't think that quartz grows big enough for counter tops. In a
past life, I ran a quartz crystal plant for quartz crystals used in
communications equipment. The raw quartz crystals were in the 1-1
1/2" diameter and 6" length range.

Alan Bierbaum

web site: http://www.calanb.com

Tom Watson wrote:

On Sun, 30 May 2004 12:16:12 -0400, "J. Clarke"
wrote:



I note that neither of you has given any indication that solvent cementing
using methylene chloride and Corian dust will be unsatisfactory in any
manner whatsoever. Do you have any reason to believe that it will?


The problem that I'm having with this is that you are fixating on the
chemistry, to the exclusion of other considerations.

That's because the chemistry is supposedly available only from DuPont. The
rest one can figure out one way or another.

What about the selection of the sheets for color matching?

What about the proper type and preparation of the substrate?

What about the choice of choice of acceptable methods to cut the
sheets?

What about the proper tolerances for straightness and the gap between
joined sheets?

What about the proper clamping pressure at the seam?

What about how much to overfill the seam and what techniques are best
to deal with that?

What about the proper radius that's allowed in the cutouts?

In areas where cutouts are for stovetops, there is a specific 3M tape
that is used as a backer at the seam - what kind is it?

What about the mixing time of the seam kit? Should you knead by hand,
or put the tube in the clamp on you half-sheet sander, and run the
sander for how long?

Who's got a seam kit? And you mean that it's not labelled?

Speaking of sanders, what is the best type to use and what grits
should you start with?

What type of abrasive is best?

If you want to bring it up to a gloss, what grits and compounds are
used to do this?


The above is certainly not an exhaustive listing - merely a friendly
warning.

Substitute "Jarrah" or "Ipe" for "Corian" in the above and do any of the
questions change? Do you know the answers to all of them? Does that mean
that we should not try to make things out of Jarrah or Ipe?

I'm sorry, but the fact that one is going to have to do some experimentation
to back into the information that duPont _could_ make available at no cost
to themselves, does not make solid surface impossible for anybody but those
who have been trained by DuPont to work with, it just means that one has to
devote the same effort to learning its properties that one does to learning
the properties of any unfamiliar material.

And what is the cost of a screwed up countertop bond? It's just something
to fix. It's not like the world ends or anything.

Now, if you really cared about helping people instead of protecting us from
ourselves then you might provide the benefit of your vast training and
experience.

Regards,
Tom.

Thomas J.Watson - Cabinetmaker (ret.)
tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (real email)
http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1

--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

Tom Watson wrote:

On Sun, 30 May 2004 17:39:15 GMT, Unisaw A100
wrote:

And while way wordier than what I'd written what Tom is
really trying to say is, "Only by DuPont's standards".

UA100


I wouldn't want to leave the man with the impression that Dupont's
seam kit is nothing more than meth chloride and some Corian dust.

It's really a two part epoxy mixture that has to be mixed before
application and has to fill the entire seam - top to bottom and front
to back - once the joint is closed up.

The meth chloride and dust would partially dissolve the Corian but the
result would have no strength and a crack line would eventually form.

I see. So the standard solvent-cementing procedure that holds up in
aquaria, aircraft, spacecraft, and numerous other places where acrylic
under stresses far greater than any likely to be encountered in a blasted
countertop is used will "have no strength" in Corian? Now why is that?

Regards,
Tom.

Thomas J.Watson - Cabinetmaker (ret.)
tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (real email)
http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1

--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

Unisaw A100 wrote:

J. Clarke wrote:
I note that neither of you has given any indication that solvent cementing
using methylene chloride and Corian dust will be unsatisfactory in any
manner whatsoever. Do you have any reason to believe that it will?


Only by DuPont's standards.

Meaningless statement. Says you have no experience, no test results, no
theory, nothing to suggest that there might be a problem, all that you know
is that DuPont told you one way to do a job and so to your way of thinking
that is the only possible way to do it.


--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

On Sun, 30 May 2004 15:05:41 -0600, Alan Bierbaum
wrote:

On Sun, 30 May 2004 20:36:39 GMT, Mark & Juanita
wrote:

snip

Speaking of which, at a tangent, we had been considering granite for our
kitchen. Now, however, it appears that quartz is also a viable material
and less porous than even granite. However, when doing a search for quartz
countertops, or even "natural" quartz countertops, I get all sorts of hits
in which claims are made for things like "silestone" and a couple of other
products are "natural quartz" One has to read the fine print really,
really closely to identify that these are composite materials using
"natural quartz" in some sort of binder. Yet the big print yells "NATURAL
QUARTZ"! Gettin' kind of frustrating trying to find some web pages with
examples of real quartz countertops -- and by real I mean, honest, no
kidding, cut from the quarry solid quartz -- not something ground up and
reformulated with new colors in an attractive plastic binder.

I don't think that quartz grows big enough for counter tops. In a
past life, I ran a quartz crystal plant for quartz crystals used in
communications equipment. The raw quartz crystals were in the 1-1
1/2" diameter and 6" length range.


Not as single crystals. However, as quartz rock, it is available:
http://www.cambriausa.com/consumer/ This was the only link I have found
thus far that uses solid stone vs. ground up and reformulated stone.

Most other manufacturers of quartz countertops are like those found on:
http://www.avanzausa.com/content_features_frame.html. One of my
favorite quotes from that page: "The color of ordinary stone can vary
greatly between pieces. And unattractive veining or color blots can mar the
appearance. With Avanza, colors and textures are consistent." Can you
imagine subsituting: "The color of ordinary maple can vary greatly between
pieces. And unattractive quilting or birds-eye can mar the appearance.
With aggreparticleboardmaple, colos and textures are consistent"?

On Sun, 30 May 2004 22:19:43 GMT, Mark & Juanita
wrote:

On Sun, 30 May 2004 15:05:41 -0600, Alan Bierbaum
wrote:

On Sun, 30 May 2004 20:36:39 GMT, Mark & Juanita
wrote:

snip

Speaking of which, at a tangent, we had been considering granite for our
kitchen. Now, however, it appears that quartz is also a viable material
and less porous than even granite. However, when doing a search for quartz
countertops, or even "natural" quartz countertops, I get all sorts of hits
in which claims are made for things like "silestone" and a couple of other
products are "natural quartz" One has to read the fine print really,
really closely to identify that these are composite materials using
"natural quartz" in some sort of binder. Yet the big print yells "NATURAL
QUARTZ"! Gettin' kind of frustrating trying to find some web pages with
examples of real quartz countertops -- and by real I mean, honest, no
kidding, cut from the quarry solid quartz -- not something ground up and
reformulated with new colors in an attractive plastic binder.

I don't think that quartz grows big enough for counter tops. In a
past life, I ran a quartz crystal plant for quartz crystals used in
communications equipment. The raw quartz crystals were in the 1-1
1/2" diameter and 6" length range.


Not as single crystals. However, as quartz rock, it is available:
http://www.cambriausa.com/consumer/ This was the only link I have found
thus far that uses solid stone vs. ground up and reformulated stone.

Most other manufacturers of quartz countertops are like those found on:
http://www.avanzausa.com/content_features_frame.html. One of my
favorite quotes from that page: "The color of ordinary stone can vary
greatly between pieces. And unattractive veining or color blots can mar the
appearance. With Avanza, colors and textures are consistent." Can you
imagine subsituting: "The color of ordinary maple can vary greatly between
pieces. And unattractive quilting or birds-eye can mar the appearance.
With aggreparticleboardmaple, colos and textures are consistent"?


If you read the cited articles; you will notice that they talk of
"engineered stone" - this is not a natural product; it is fabricated
by some type of glue and stone and quartz particles.


Alan Bierbaum

web site: http://www.calanb.com

On Sun, 30 May 2004 22:19:43 GMT, Mark & Juanita
wrote:

SNIP

Not as single crystals. However, as quartz rock, it is available:
http://www.cambriausa.com/consumer/ This was the only link I have found
thus far that uses solid stone vs. ground up and reformulated stone.

SNIP

IT isn't slabs of solid quartz. From their website:

"Is CAMBRIA made or manufactured in a plant?

The CAMBRIA facility produces natural quartz into slabs. We take pure
natural quartz mined out of the earth and combine it with a small
amount of pigment and resin to create a slab of uncommon beauty and
strength. This is done in our facility in LeSueur, Minnesota, the only
one of its kind in the United States. By recombining the quartz in our
facility, we are able to recreate the slabs to make them completely
non-porous."

Meaningless statement. Says you have no experience, no test results, no
theory, nothing to suggest that there might be a problem, all that you know
is that DuPont told you one way to do a job and so to your way of thinking
that is the only possible way to do it.


Wow! How do you breath with your pants so bunched up J.?

UA100

I work with epoxy and glass & graphite fibers. Epoxy is
almost $1000/qt, fibers about $100/lb. Rings
weigh around 350-400lbs. Yes, there is only ONE way to do
some things.

J. Clarke wrote:

Unisaw A100 wrote:


J. Clarke wrote:

I note that neither of you has given any indication that solvent cementing
using methylene chloride and Corian dust will be unsatisfactory in any
manner whatsoever. Do you have any reason to believe that it will?


Only by DuPont's standards.


Meaningless statement. Says you have no experience, no test results, no
theory, nothing to suggest that there might be a problem, all that you know
is that DuPont told you one way to do a job and so to your way of thinking
that is the only possible way to do it.

On Sun, 30 May 2004 17:08:32 -0400, "J. Clarke"
wrote:


I see. So the standard solvent-cementing procedure that holds up in
aquaria, aircraft, spacecraft, and numerous other places where acrylic
under stresses far greater than any likely to be encountered in a blasted
countertop is used will "have no strength" in Corian? Now why is that?

Damn, this place is getting tiresome.



Regards,
Tom.

Thomas J.Watson - Cabinetmaker (ret.)
tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (real email)
http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1

On Sun, 30 May 2004 16:50:49 -0600, Alan Bierbaum
wrote:

On Sun, 30 May 2004 22:19:43 GMT, Mark & Juanita
wrote:

On Sun, 30 May 2004 15:05:41 -0600, Alan Bierbaum
wrote:

On Sun, 30 May 2004 20:36:39 GMT, Mark & Juanita
wrote:

snip

.... snip
Not as single crystals. However, as quartz rock, it is available:
http://www.cambriausa.com/consumer/ This was the only link I have found
thus far that uses solid stone vs. ground up and reformulated stone.

.... more snip

If you read the cited articles; you will notice that they talk of
"engineered stone" - this is not a natural product; it is fabricated
by some type of glue and stone and quartz particles.


Alan Bierbaum

Yep, you're right. After more careful inspection, it appears that this
is also engineered material. Funny thing, you really have to dig to find
that, looking at the first parts of their web pages, you get quotes such
as, "CAMBRIA is pure natural Quartz stone mined out of the earth. It has
the look and feel of granite with superior performance." That's from the
Product Info page, From the how we compare page, in the table it lists
both Cambria and Granite as "Natural Stone". Yeah, "natural" as in ground
up with epoxy binders -- just like MDF is "natural wood". Kind of
misleading.

Thanks for helping set me straight -- looks like granite is still the top
of choice if one desires natural stone that is less porous than marble.

On Mon, 31 May 2004 01:21:46 GMT, Mark & Juanita
wrote:

On Sun, 30 May 2004 16:50:49 -0600, Alan Bierbaum
wrote:

On Sun, 30 May 2004 22:19:43 GMT, Mark & Juanita
wrote:

On Sun, 30 May 2004 15:05:41 -0600, Alan Bierbaum
wrote:

On Sun, 30 May 2004 20:36:39 GMT, Mark & Juanita
wrote:

snip

... snip
Not as single crystals. However, as quartz rock, it is available:
http://www.cambriausa.com/consumer/ This was the only link I have found
thus far that uses solid stone vs. ground up and reformulated stone.

... more snip

If you read the cited articles; you will notice that they talk of
"engineered stone" - this is not a natural product; it is fabricated
by some type of glue and stone and quartz particles.


Alan Bierbaum

Yep, you're right. After more careful inspection, it appears that this
is also engineered material. Funny thing, you really have to dig to find
that, looking at the first parts of their web pages, you get quotes such
as, "CAMBRIA is pure natural Quartz stone mined out of the earth. It has
the look and feel of granite with superior performance." That's from the
Product Info page, From the how we compare page, in the table it lists
both Cambria and Granite as "Natural Stone". Yeah, "natural" as in ground
up with epoxy binders -- just like MDF is "natural wood". Kind of
misleading.

Thanks for helping set me straight -- looks like granite is still the top
of choice if one desires natural stone that is less porous than marble.

Hey - this "may" be a great product (even "better" than granite). I
really don't know anything about it other than what the website says.

Alan Bierbaum

web site: http://www.calanb.com

J. Clarke wrote:
Tom Watson wrote:


On Sun, 30 May 2004 12:16:12 -0400, "J. Clarke"
wrote:



I note that neither of you has given any indication that solvent cementing
using methylene chloride and Corian dust will be unsatisfactory in any
manner whatsoever. Do you have any reason to believe that it will?


The problem that I'm having with this is that you are fixating on the
chemistry, to the exclusion of other considerations.


That's because the chemistry is supposedly available only from DuPont. The
rest one can figure out one way or another.

Given a drop of their magic elixir it would be an easy job to determine
what their seam kit holds. FTIR Mass Spectroscopy and a few other
analytical tools will tell all.

RB



What about the selection of the sheets for color matching?

What about the proper type and preparation of the substrate?


What about the choice of choice of acceptable methods to cut the
sheets?

What about the proper tolerances for straightness and the gap between
joined sheets?

What about the proper clamping pressure at the seam?

What about how much to overfill the seam and what techniques are best
to deal with that?

What about the proper radius that's allowed in the cutouts?

In areas where cutouts are for stovetops, there is a specific 3M tape
that is used as a backer at the seam - what kind is it?

What about the mixing time of the seam kit? Should you knead by hand,
or put the tube in the clamp on you half-sheet sander, and run the
sander for how long?


Who's got a seam kit? And you mean that it's not labelled?


Speaking of sanders, what is the best type to use and what grits
should you start with?

What type of abrasive is best?

If you want to bring it up to a gloss, what grits and compounds are
used to do this?


The above is certainly not an exhaustive listing - merely a friendly
warning.


Substitute "Jarrah" or "Ipe" for "Corian" in the above and do any of the
questions change? Do you know the answers to all of them? Does that mean
that we should not try to make things out of Jarrah or Ipe?

I'm sorry, but the fact that one is going to have to do some experimentation
to back into the information that duPont _could_ make available at no cost
to themselves, does not make solid surface impossible for anybody but those
who have been trained by DuPont to work with, it just means that one has to
devote the same effort to learning its properties that one does to learning
the properties of any unfamiliar material.

And what is the cost of a screwed up countertop bond? It's just something
to fix. It's not like the world ends or anything.

Now, if you really cared about helping people instead of protecting us from
ourselves then you might provide the benefit of your vast training and
experience.


Regards,
Tom.

Thomas J.Watson - Cabinetmaker (ret.)
tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (real email)
http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1

Mark & Juanita wrote in message ws.com...
On Sun, 30 May 2004 16:50:49 -0600, Alan Bierbaum
wrote:

On Sun, 30 May 2004 22:19:43 GMT, Mark & Juanita
wrote:

On Sun, 30 May 2004 15:05:41 -0600, Alan Bierbaum
wrote:

On Sun, 30 May 2004 20:36:39 GMT, Mark & Juanita
wrote:

snip

... snip
Not as single crystals. However, as quartz rock, it is available:
http://www.cambriausa.com/consumer/ This was the only link I have found
thus far that uses solid stone vs. ground up and reformulated stone.

... more snip

If you read the cited articles; you will notice that they talk of
"engineered stone" - this is not a natural product; it is fabricated
by some type of glue and stone and quartz particles.


Alan Bierbaum

Yep, you're right. After more careful inspection, it appears that this
is also engineered material. Funny thing, you really have to dig to find
that, looking at the first parts of their web pages, you get quotes such
as, "CAMBRIA is pure natural Quartz stone mined out of the earth. It has
the look and feel of granite with superior performance." That's from the
Product Info page, From the how we compare page, in the table it lists
both Cambria and Granite as "Natural Stone". Yeah, "natural" as in ground
up with epoxy binders -- just like MDF is "natural wood". Kind of
misleading.

Thanks for helping set me straight -- looks like granite is still the top
of choice if one desires natural stone that is less porous than marble.

I've been researching counter top materials for some time. Info I have
is that ALL the quartz products are made by the same process, on the
same patented Italian made machines. Dupont has one in Canada, they
charge more for their product. Silestone and Cesar Stone, perhaps
others by now, are the same thing. One product brochure, Silestone I
believe, stated there is 90% Quartz and 10% binder material in the
product, making it harder and less porous than granite. Needs no
sealer, will not stain. Can't be scratched with a knife. MAY burn
under high enough temp., not sure what that is. This will be my choice
when I get around to our kitchen, expecting it to outlast me!

On Sun, 30 May 2004 15:05:41 -0600, Alan Bierbaum
wrote:

On Sun, 30 May 2004 20:36:39 GMT, Mark & Juanita
wrote:

snip

Speaking of which, at a tangent, we had been considering granite for our
kitchen. Now, however, it appears that quartz is also a viable material
and less porous than even granite. However, when doing a search for quartz
countertops, or even "natural" quartz countertops, I get all sorts of hits
in which claims are made for things like "silestone" and a couple of other
products are "natural quartz" One has to read the fine print really,
really closely to identify that these are composite materials using
"natural quartz" in some sort of binder. Yet the big print yells "NATURAL
QUARTZ"! Gettin' kind of frustrating trying to find some web pages with
examples of real quartz countertops -- and by real I mean, honest, no
kidding, cut from the quarry solid quartz -- not something ground up and
reformulated with new colors in an attractive plastic binder.

I don't think that quartz grows big enough for counter tops. In a
past life, I ran a quartz crystal plant for quartz crystals used in
communications equipment. The raw quartz crystals were in the 1-1
1/2" diameter and 6" length range.

Alan Bierbaum

web site: http://www.calanb.com



single quartz crystals do get pretty damn big in nature, but they're
rare. quartzite, though- cryptocrystalline quartz- can be any size, up
to and including a whole mountainside. this is prolly the stuff that
these counters would be made of. and yes, it would make a dandy
counter....

Rick Samuel wrote:

I work with epoxy and glass & graphite fibers. Epoxy is
almost $1000/qt, fibers about $100/lb. Rings
weigh around 350-400lbs. Yes, there is only ONE way to do
some things.

Oh? You developed the process yourself? If not, then how do you know that
it is the only one possible?

There is, in engineering, seldom only one way to do a job. However when it
is time to cut chips, you have to pick one of the alternatives and put it
on the specs and on the drawings and in the work sheets and wherever else
it needs to be.

So, there are probably several ways to do whatever you do with your
mysterious "rings". Find the engineer who came up with the process and if
he's the friendly and talkative sort ask him what alternatives were
considered and why the one you use was chosen and you may get a surprise.

J. Clarke wrote:

Unisaw A100 wrote:


J. Clarke wrote:

I note that neither of you has given any indication that solvent
cementing using methylene chloride and Corian dust will be
unsatisfactory in any
manner whatsoever. Do you have any reason to believe that it will?


Only by DuPont's standards.


Meaningless statement. Says you have no experience, no test results, no
theory, nothing to suggest that there might be a problem, all that you
know is that DuPont told you one way to do a job and so to your way of
thinking that is the only possible way to do it.



--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

Unisaw A100 wrote:

Meaningless statement. Says you have no experience, no test results, no
theory, nothing to suggest that there might be a problem, all that you
know is that DuPont told you one way to do a job and so to your way of
thinking that is the only possible way to do it.


Wow! How do you breath with your pants so bunched up J.?

Coming from someone who is arguing engineering on the basis of religious
faith (There is only One Good, Right, and True DuPont Way and all other
paths lead to damnation) that's a laugh.

UA100

--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

Tom Watson wrote:

On Sun, 30 May 2004 17:08:32 -0400, "J. Clarke"
wrote:


I see. So the standard solvent-cementing procedure that holds up in
aquaria, aircraft, spacecraft, and numerous other places where acrylic
under stresses far greater than any likely to be encountered in a blasted
countertop is used will "have no strength" in Corian? Now why is that?

Damn, this place is getting tiresome.

In other words being asked to question your assumptions makes you
uncomfortable?

Regards,
Tom.

Thomas J.Watson - Cabinetmaker (ret.)
tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (real email)
http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1

--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)