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Solid Surface supplier ????????????????????
I want to have a go at using a solid surface counter top on cabinets
I'm building. Can anybody tell me if I can buy this stuff by the sheet? Mike |
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IIRC, most companies only sell to authorized installers and
distributors. Maybe that has changed, now that so many different types are being sold. They don't want amateurs trying to work with the stuff. But a few years back, I found a place that sold sheets. The max size was 18x48. Maybe you could try looking in the back of home improvement mags, that how I found my place. I'm not sure if they are still around.... Mark L. wrote: I want to have a go at using a solid surface counter top on cabinets I'm building. Can anybody tell me if I can buy this stuff by the sheet? Mike |
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Several years ago, I had thoughts of several craft and scroll saw projects
using Corian. I was unable to buy Corian, so those projects fell of the project list. We are having our kitchen re-modeled and last Thursday when the Corian man was here to make templates for our countertops, he said his company does sell the Corian now. However, he said they will not/can not sell the glue that allows seamless countertops to be fabricated. This seems like a change from what I had been told several years ago. II have not stopped by his company to buy any Corian to verify his story. Maybe later this year I resurrect those old projects..... Jack "Mark L." wrote in message m... IIRC, most companies only sell to authorized installers and distributors. Maybe that has changed, now that so many different types are being sold. They don't want amateurs trying to work with the stuff. But a few years back, I found a place that sold sheets. The max size was 18x48. Maybe you could try looking in the back of home improvement mags, that how I found my place. I'm not sure if they are still around.... Mark L. wrote: I want to have a go at using a solid surface counter top on cabinets I'm building. Can anybody tell me if I can buy this stuff by the sheet? Mike |
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That's good to know. I did use Corian to top off a radiator cover a few
years back and it worked well. Didn't want tiles, cuz plants are on top and it does see water, plus the Corian looks very close to granite. Luckily, the sheet I bought was large enough to cover without having to join pieces together. Mark L. John Flatley wrote: Several years ago, I had thoughts of several craft and scroll saw projects using Corian. I was unable to buy Corian, so those projects fell of the project list. We are having our kitchen re-modeled and last Thursday when the Corian man was here to make templates for our countertops, he said his company does sell the Corian now. However, he said they will not/can not sell the glue that allows seamless countertops to be fabricated. This seems like a change from what I had been told several years ago. II have not stopped by his company to buy any Corian to verify his story. Maybe later this year I resurrect those old projects..... Jack "Mark L." wrote in message m... IIRC, most companies only sell to authorized installers and distributors. Maybe that has changed, now that so many different types are being sold. They don't want amateurs trying to work with the stuff. But a few years back, I found a place that sold sheets. The max size was 18x48. Maybe you could try looking in the back of home improvement mags, that how I found my place. I'm not sure if they are still around.... Mark L. wrote: I want to have a go at using a solid surface counter top on cabinets I'm building. Can anybody tell me if I can buy this stuff by the sheet? Mike |
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John Flatley wrote:
Several years ago, I had thoughts of several craft and scroll saw projects using Corian. I was unable to buy Corian, so those projects fell of the project list. We are having our kitchen re-modeled and last Thursday when the Corian man was here to make templates for our countertops, he said his company does sell the Corian now. However, he said they will not/can not sell the glue that allows seamless countertops to be fabricated. This seems like a change from what I had been told several years ago. II have not stopped by his company to buy any Corian to verify his story. Maybe later this year I resurrect those old projects..... I find myself wondering what's so important about the glue. Solvent-cementing of acrylic is hardly any deep dark secret, and I understand that working the stuff makes plenty of dust for filler--if it doesn't, one can always take a belt sander to a scrap. Jack "Mark L." wrote in message m... IIRC, most companies only sell to authorized installers and distributors. Maybe that has changed, now that so many different types are being sold. They don't want amateurs trying to work with the stuff. But a few years back, I found a place that sold sheets. The max size was 18x48. Maybe you could try looking in the back of home improvement mags, that how I found my place. I'm not sure if they are still around.... Mark L. wrote: I want to have a go at using a solid surface counter top on cabinets I'm building. Can anybody tell me if I can buy this stuff by the sheet? Mike -- --John Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net) |
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J. Clarke wrote:
I find myself wondering what's so important about the glue. Solvent-cementing of acrylic is hardly any deep dark secret, and I understand that working the stuff makes plenty of dust for filler--if it doesn't, one can always take a belt sander to a scrap. It's not the seam kits that are some great dark secret but what people will do with them if they could get them and that's pretty much make and install Corian improperly thus causing DuPont more headaches than they really care to deal with. As it's set up they can control quality by making sure everyone who uses it has been properly trained. Also, by limiting the number of fabricators in an area DuPont is able to keep it's core of customers more healthy. Might sound un-American (limiting distribution) but it's their product and their's to do with what they think best and so far I've yet to see DuPont losing money on Corian or hear any of their fabricators ****ing and moaning about the arrangement. UA100 |
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Unisaw A100 wrote:
J. Clarke wrote: I find myself wondering what's so important about the glue. Solvent-cementing of acrylic is hardly any deep dark secret, and I understand that working the stuff makes plenty of dust for filler--if it doesn't, one can always take a belt sander to a scrap. It's not the seam kits that are some great dark secret but what people will do with them if they could get them and that's pretty much make and install Corian improperly thus causing DuPont more headaches than they really care to deal with. As it's set up they can control quality by making sure everyone who uses it has been properly trained. Also, by limiting the number of fabricators in an area DuPont is able to keep it's core of customers more healthy. Might sound un-American (limiting distribution) but it's their product and their's to do with what they think best and so far I've yet to see DuPont losing money on Corian or hear any of their fabricators ****ing and moaning about the arrangement. The point is that unless there's something I'm missing anybody with a can of methylene chloride and a power sander don't NEED no steenkeeng SEAM KIT. UA100 -- --John Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net) |
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J. Clarke wrote:
The point is that unless there's something I'm missing anybody with a can of methylene chloride and a power sander don't NEED no steenkeeng SEAM KIT. Okee dokee, if you say so. UA100 |
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On Sun, 30 May 2004 11:54:49 GMT, Unisaw A100
wrote: J. Clarke wrote: The point is that unless there's something I'm missing anybody with a can of methylene chloride and a power sander don't NEED no steenkeeng SEAM KIT. Okee dokee, if you say so. UA100 This is exactly why Dupont licenses installers and fabricators. So that people don't screw things up and ruin the brand name in the process. watson-licensed since shortly after earl flynn died. Regards, Tom. Thomas J.Watson - Cabinetmaker (ret.) tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (real email) http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1 |
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Tom Watson wrote:
This is exactly why Dupont licenses installers and fabricators. So that people don't screw things up and ruin the brand name in the process. That's kinda/sorta the point i was trying to make. Thanks for confirming it didn't go over everyone's heads. watson-licensed since shortly after earl flynn died. UA100, not licensed and Earl Flynn is still dead... |
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On Sun, 30 May 2004 09:15:27 -0400, Tom Watson wrote:
This is exactly why Dupont licenses installers and fabricators. So that people don't screw things up and ruin the brand name in the process. watson-licensed since shortly after earl flynn died. Was he related to Errol Flynn? -- "A government that robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul." - George Bernard Shaw |
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Tom Watson wrote:
On Sun, 30 May 2004 11:54:49 GMT, Unisaw A100 wrote: J. Clarke wrote: The point is that unless there's something I'm missing anybody with a can of methylene chloride and a power sander don't NEED no steenkeeng SEAM KIT. Okee dokee, if you say so. UA100 This is exactly why Dupont licenses installers and fabricators. So that people don't screw things up and ruin the brand name in the process. watson-licensed since shortly after earl flynn died. I note that neither of you has given any indication that solvent cementing using methylene chloride and Corian dust will be unsatisfactory in any manner whatsoever. Do you have any reason to believe that it will? Regards, Tom. Thomas J.Watson - Cabinetmaker (ret.) tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (real email) http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1 -- --John Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net) |
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wrote in message ... I want to have a go at using a solid surface counter top on cabinets I'm building. Can anybody tell me if I can buy this stuff by the sheet? Mike You probably won't have any luck getting the Corian/Dupont brand. I haven't had any trouble buying the Formica brand SS, but I'm just getting their sheet stock. Another product "Amerite?" is available from the maker - I've no experience with it. |
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Doug Winterburn wrote:
On Sun, 30 May 2004 09:15:27 -0400, Tom Watson wrote: This is exactly why Dupont licenses installers and fabricators. So that people don't screw things up and ruin the brand name in the process. watson-licensed since shortly after earl flynn died. Was he related to Errol Flynn? Leon Errol. |
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On Sun, 30 May 2004 16:00:56 GMT, Doug Winterburn
wrote: On Sun, 30 May 2004 09:15:27 -0400, Tom Watson wrote: This is exactly why Dupont licenses installers and fabricators. So that people don't screw things up and ruin the brand name in the process. watson-licensed since shortly after earl flynn died. Was he related to Errol Flynn? You know, they often call him Speedo but his real name is Mr. Earl. Regards, Tom. Thomas J.Watson - Cabinetmaker (ret.) tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (real email) http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1 |
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On Sun, 30 May 2004 12:16:12 -0400, "J. Clarke"
wrote: I note that neither of you has given any indication that solvent cementing using methylene chloride and Corian dust will be unsatisfactory in any manner whatsoever. Do you have any reason to believe that it will? The problem that I'm having with this is that you are fixating on the chemistry, to the exclusion of other considerations. What about the selection of the sheets for color matching? What about the proper type and preparation of the substrate? What about the choice of choice of acceptable methods to cut the sheets? What about the proper tolerances for straightness and the gap between joined sheets? What about the proper clamping pressure at the seam? What about how much to overfill the seam and what techniques are best to deal with that? What about the proper radius that's allowed in the cutouts? In areas where cutouts are for stovetops, there is a specific 3M tape that is used as a backer at the seam - what kind is it? What about the mixing time of the seam kit? Should you knead by hand, or put the tube in the clamp on you half-sheet sander, and run the sander for how long? Speaking of sanders, what is the best type to use and what grits should you start with? What type of abrasive is best? If you want to bring it up to a gloss, what grits and compounds are used to do this? The above is certainly not an exhaustive listing - merely a friendly warning. Regards, Tom. Thomas J.Watson - Cabinetmaker (ret.) tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (real email) http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1 |
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J. Clarke wrote:
I note that neither of you has given any indication that solvent cementing using methylene chloride and Corian dust will be unsatisfactory in any manner whatsoever. Do you have any reason to believe that it will? Only by DuPont's standards. UA100 |
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Eric Ryder wrote:
Another product "Amerite?" is available from the maker Avonite. UA100 |
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Tom Watson wrote:
mucho snippage... And while way wordier than what I'd written what Tom is really trying to say is, "Only by DuPont's standards". UA100 |
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On Sun, 30 May 2004 17:39:15 GMT, Unisaw A100
wrote: And while way wordier than what I'd written what Tom is really trying to say is, "Only by DuPont's standards". UA100 I wouldn't want to leave the man with the impression that Dupont's seam kit is nothing more than meth chloride and some Corian dust. It's really a two part epoxy mixture that has to be mixed before application and has to fill the entire seam - top to bottom and front to back - once the joint is closed up. The meth chloride and dust would partially dissolve the Corian but the result would have no strength and a crack line would eventually form. Regards, Tom. Thomas J.Watson - Cabinetmaker (ret.) tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (real email) http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1 |
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On Sun, 30 May 2004 17:36:40 GMT, Unisaw A100
wrote: Eric Ryder wrote: Another product "Amerite?" is available from the maker Avonite. UA100 Yep, and the Avonite is a polyester based product and needs different treatment than Corian, which is acrylic based. watson-who had to go to Avonite school, too - but doesn't remember if they only let licensed fabricators buy it - because soon after Watson learned all about Corian and Avonite - everybody started to spec granite - sigh... Regards, Tom. Thomas J.Watson - Cabinetmaker (ret.) tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (real email) http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1 |
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On Sun, 30 May 2004 14:26:34 -0400, Tom Watson wrote:
On Sun, 30 May 2004 17:36:40 GMT, Unisaw A100 wrote: Eric Ryder wrote: Another product "Amerite?" is available from the maker Avonite. UA100 Yep, and the Avonite is a polyester based product and needs different treatment than Corian, which is acrylic based. watson-who had to go to Avonite school, too - but doesn't remember if they only let licensed fabricators buy it - because soon after Watson learned all about Corian and Avonite - everybody started to spec granite - sigh... Speaking of which, at a tangent, we had been considering granite for our kitchen. Now, however, it appears that quartz is also a viable material and less porous than even granite. However, when doing a search for quartz countertops, or even "natural" quartz countertops, I get all sorts of hits in which claims are made for things like "silestone" and a couple of other products are "natural quartz" One has to read the fine print really, really closely to identify that these are composite materials using "natural quartz" in some sort of binder. Yet the big print yells "NATURAL QUARTZ"! Gettin' kind of frustrating trying to find some web pages with examples of real quartz countertops -- and by real I mean, honest, no kidding, cut from the quarry solid quartz -- not something ground up and reformulated with new colors in an attractive plastic binder. |
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On Sun, 30 May 2004 20:36:39 GMT, Mark & Juanita
wrote: snip Speaking of which, at a tangent, we had been considering granite for our kitchen. Now, however, it appears that quartz is also a viable material and less porous than even granite. However, when doing a search for quartz countertops, or even "natural" quartz countertops, I get all sorts of hits in which claims are made for things like "silestone" and a couple of other products are "natural quartz" One has to read the fine print really, really closely to identify that these are composite materials using "natural quartz" in some sort of binder. Yet the big print yells "NATURAL QUARTZ"! Gettin' kind of frustrating trying to find some web pages with examples of real quartz countertops -- and by real I mean, honest, no kidding, cut from the quarry solid quartz -- not something ground up and reformulated with new colors in an attractive plastic binder. I don't think that quartz grows big enough for counter tops. In a past life, I ran a quartz crystal plant for quartz crystals used in communications equipment. The raw quartz crystals were in the 1-1 1/2" diameter and 6" length range. Alan Bierbaum web site: http://www.calanb.com |
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Tom Watson wrote:
On Sun, 30 May 2004 12:16:12 -0400, "J. Clarke" wrote: I note that neither of you has given any indication that solvent cementing using methylene chloride and Corian dust will be unsatisfactory in any manner whatsoever. Do you have any reason to believe that it will? The problem that I'm having with this is that you are fixating on the chemistry, to the exclusion of other considerations. That's because the chemistry is supposedly available only from DuPont. The rest one can figure out one way or another. What about the selection of the sheets for color matching? What about the proper type and preparation of the substrate? What about the choice of choice of acceptable methods to cut the sheets? What about the proper tolerances for straightness and the gap between joined sheets? What about the proper clamping pressure at the seam? What about how much to overfill the seam and what techniques are best to deal with that? What about the proper radius that's allowed in the cutouts? In areas where cutouts are for stovetops, there is a specific 3M tape that is used as a backer at the seam - what kind is it? What about the mixing time of the seam kit? Should you knead by hand, or put the tube in the clamp on you half-sheet sander, and run the sander for how long? Who's got a seam kit? And you mean that it's not labelled? Speaking of sanders, what is the best type to use and what grits should you start with? What type of abrasive is best? If you want to bring it up to a gloss, what grits and compounds are used to do this? The above is certainly not an exhaustive listing - merely a friendly warning. Substitute "Jarrah" or "Ipe" for "Corian" in the above and do any of the questions change? Do you know the answers to all of them? Does that mean that we should not try to make things out of Jarrah or Ipe? I'm sorry, but the fact that one is going to have to do some experimentation to back into the information that duPont _could_ make available at no cost to themselves, does not make solid surface impossible for anybody but those who have been trained by DuPont to work with, it just means that one has to devote the same effort to learning its properties that one does to learning the properties of any unfamiliar material. And what is the cost of a screwed up countertop bond? It's just something to fix. It's not like the world ends or anything. Now, if you really cared about helping people instead of protecting us from ourselves then you might provide the benefit of your vast training and experience. Regards, Tom. Thomas J.Watson - Cabinetmaker (ret.) tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (real email) http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1 -- --John Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net) |
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Tom Watson wrote:
On Sun, 30 May 2004 17:39:15 GMT, Unisaw A100 wrote: And while way wordier than what I'd written what Tom is really trying to say is, "Only by DuPont's standards". UA100 I wouldn't want to leave the man with the impression that Dupont's seam kit is nothing more than meth chloride and some Corian dust. It's really a two part epoxy mixture that has to be mixed before application and has to fill the entire seam - top to bottom and front to back - once the joint is closed up. The meth chloride and dust would partially dissolve the Corian but the result would have no strength and a crack line would eventually form. I see. So the standard solvent-cementing procedure that holds up in aquaria, aircraft, spacecraft, and numerous other places where acrylic under stresses far greater than any likely to be encountered in a blasted countertop is used will "have no strength" in Corian? Now why is that? Regards, Tom. Thomas J.Watson - Cabinetmaker (ret.) tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (real email) http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1 -- --John Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net) |
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Unisaw A100 wrote:
J. Clarke wrote: I note that neither of you has given any indication that solvent cementing using methylene chloride and Corian dust will be unsatisfactory in any manner whatsoever. Do you have any reason to believe that it will? Only by DuPont's standards. Meaningless statement. Says you have no experience, no test results, no theory, nothing to suggest that there might be a problem, all that you know is that DuPont told you one way to do a job and so to your way of thinking that is the only possible way to do it. -- --John Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net) |
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On Sun, 30 May 2004 15:05:41 -0600, Alan Bierbaum
wrote: On Sun, 30 May 2004 20:36:39 GMT, Mark & Juanita wrote: snip Speaking of which, at a tangent, we had been considering granite for our kitchen. Now, however, it appears that quartz is also a viable material and less porous than even granite. However, when doing a search for quartz countertops, or even "natural" quartz countertops, I get all sorts of hits in which claims are made for things like "silestone" and a couple of other products are "natural quartz" One has to read the fine print really, really closely to identify that these are composite materials using "natural quartz" in some sort of binder. Yet the big print yells "NATURAL QUARTZ"! Gettin' kind of frustrating trying to find some web pages with examples of real quartz countertops -- and by real I mean, honest, no kidding, cut from the quarry solid quartz -- not something ground up and reformulated with new colors in an attractive plastic binder. I don't think that quartz grows big enough for counter tops. In a past life, I ran a quartz crystal plant for quartz crystals used in communications equipment. The raw quartz crystals were in the 1-1 1/2" diameter and 6" length range. Not as single crystals. However, as quartz rock, it is available: http://www.cambriausa.com/consumer/ This was the only link I have found thus far that uses solid stone vs. ground up and reformulated stone. Most other manufacturers of quartz countertops are like those found on: http://www.avanzausa.com/content_features_frame.html. One of my favorite quotes from that page: "The color of ordinary stone can vary greatly between pieces. And unattractive veining or color blots can mar the appearance. With Avanza, colors and textures are consistent." Can you imagine subsituting: "The color of ordinary maple can vary greatly between pieces. And unattractive quilting or birds-eye can mar the appearance. With aggreparticleboardmaple, colos and textures are consistent"? |
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On Sun, 30 May 2004 22:19:43 GMT, Mark & Juanita
wrote: On Sun, 30 May 2004 15:05:41 -0600, Alan Bierbaum wrote: On Sun, 30 May 2004 20:36:39 GMT, Mark & Juanita wrote: snip Speaking of which, at a tangent, we had been considering granite for our kitchen. Now, however, it appears that quartz is also a viable material and less porous than even granite. However, when doing a search for quartz countertops, or even "natural" quartz countertops, I get all sorts of hits in which claims are made for things like "silestone" and a couple of other products are "natural quartz" One has to read the fine print really, really closely to identify that these are composite materials using "natural quartz" in some sort of binder. Yet the big print yells "NATURAL QUARTZ"! Gettin' kind of frustrating trying to find some web pages with examples of real quartz countertops -- and by real I mean, honest, no kidding, cut from the quarry solid quartz -- not something ground up and reformulated with new colors in an attractive plastic binder. I don't think that quartz grows big enough for counter tops. In a past life, I ran a quartz crystal plant for quartz crystals used in communications equipment. The raw quartz crystals were in the 1-1 1/2" diameter and 6" length range. Not as single crystals. However, as quartz rock, it is available: http://www.cambriausa.com/consumer/ This was the only link I have found thus far that uses solid stone vs. ground up and reformulated stone. Most other manufacturers of quartz countertops are like those found on: http://www.avanzausa.com/content_features_frame.html. One of my favorite quotes from that page: "The color of ordinary stone can vary greatly between pieces. And unattractive veining or color blots can mar the appearance. With Avanza, colors and textures are consistent." Can you imagine subsituting: "The color of ordinary maple can vary greatly between pieces. And unattractive quilting or birds-eye can mar the appearance. With aggreparticleboardmaple, colos and textures are consistent"? If you read the cited articles; you will notice that they talk of "engineered stone" - this is not a natural product; it is fabricated by some type of glue and stone and quartz particles. Alan Bierbaum web site: http://www.calanb.com |
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On Sun, 30 May 2004 22:19:43 GMT, Mark & Juanita
wrote: SNIP Not as single crystals. However, as quartz rock, it is available: http://www.cambriausa.com/consumer/ This was the only link I have found thus far that uses solid stone vs. ground up and reformulated stone. SNIP IT isn't slabs of solid quartz. From their website: "Is CAMBRIA made or manufactured in a plant? The CAMBRIA facility produces natural quartz into slabs. We take pure natural quartz mined out of the earth and combine it with a small amount of pigment and resin to create a slab of uncommon beauty and strength. This is done in our facility in LeSueur, Minnesota, the only one of its kind in the United States. By recombining the quartz in our facility, we are able to recreate the slabs to make them completely non-porous." |
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Meaningless statement. Says you have no experience, no test results, no
theory, nothing to suggest that there might be a problem, all that you know is that DuPont told you one way to do a job and so to your way of thinking that is the only possible way to do it. Wow! How do you breath with your pants so bunched up J.? UA100 |
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I work with epoxy and glass & graphite fibers. Epoxy is
almost $1000/qt, fibers about $100/lb. Rings weigh around 350-400lbs. Yes, there is only ONE way to do some things. J. Clarke wrote: Unisaw A100 wrote: J. Clarke wrote: I note that neither of you has given any indication that solvent cementing using methylene chloride and Corian dust will be unsatisfactory in any manner whatsoever. Do you have any reason to believe that it will? Only by DuPont's standards. Meaningless statement. Says you have no experience, no test results, no theory, nothing to suggest that there might be a problem, all that you know is that DuPont told you one way to do a job and so to your way of thinking that is the only possible way to do it. |
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On Sun, 30 May 2004 17:08:32 -0400, "J. Clarke"
wrote: I see. So the standard solvent-cementing procedure that holds up in aquaria, aircraft, spacecraft, and numerous other places where acrylic under stresses far greater than any likely to be encountered in a blasted countertop is used will "have no strength" in Corian? Now why is that? Damn, this place is getting tiresome. Regards, Tom. Thomas J.Watson - Cabinetmaker (ret.) tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (real email) http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1 |
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On Sun, 30 May 2004 16:50:49 -0600, Alan Bierbaum
wrote: On Sun, 30 May 2004 22:19:43 GMT, Mark & Juanita wrote: On Sun, 30 May 2004 15:05:41 -0600, Alan Bierbaum wrote: On Sun, 30 May 2004 20:36:39 GMT, Mark & Juanita wrote: snip .... snip Not as single crystals. However, as quartz rock, it is available: http://www.cambriausa.com/consumer/ This was the only link I have found thus far that uses solid stone vs. ground up and reformulated stone. .... more snip If you read the cited articles; you will notice that they talk of "engineered stone" - this is not a natural product; it is fabricated by some type of glue and stone and quartz particles. Alan Bierbaum Yep, you're right. After more careful inspection, it appears that this is also engineered material. Funny thing, you really have to dig to find that, looking at the first parts of their web pages, you get quotes such as, "CAMBRIA is pure natural Quartz stone mined out of the earth. It has the look and feel of granite with superior performance." That's from the Product Info page, From the how we compare page, in the table it lists both Cambria and Granite as "Natural Stone". Yeah, "natural" as in ground up with epoxy binders -- just like MDF is "natural wood". Kind of misleading. Thanks for helping set me straight -- looks like granite is still the top of choice if one desires natural stone that is less porous than marble. |
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On Mon, 31 May 2004 01:21:46 GMT, Mark & Juanita
wrote: On Sun, 30 May 2004 16:50:49 -0600, Alan Bierbaum wrote: On Sun, 30 May 2004 22:19:43 GMT, Mark & Juanita wrote: On Sun, 30 May 2004 15:05:41 -0600, Alan Bierbaum wrote: On Sun, 30 May 2004 20:36:39 GMT, Mark & Juanita wrote: snip ... snip Not as single crystals. However, as quartz rock, it is available: http://www.cambriausa.com/consumer/ This was the only link I have found thus far that uses solid stone vs. ground up and reformulated stone. ... more snip If you read the cited articles; you will notice that they talk of "engineered stone" - this is not a natural product; it is fabricated by some type of glue and stone and quartz particles. Alan Bierbaum Yep, you're right. After more careful inspection, it appears that this is also engineered material. Funny thing, you really have to dig to find that, looking at the first parts of their web pages, you get quotes such as, "CAMBRIA is pure natural Quartz stone mined out of the earth. It has the look and feel of granite with superior performance." That's from the Product Info page, From the how we compare page, in the table it lists both Cambria and Granite as "Natural Stone". Yeah, "natural" as in ground up with epoxy binders -- just like MDF is "natural wood". Kind of misleading. Thanks for helping set me straight -- looks like granite is still the top of choice if one desires natural stone that is less porous than marble. Hey - this "may" be a great product (even "better" than granite). I really don't know anything about it other than what the website says. Alan Bierbaum web site: http://www.calanb.com |
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J. Clarke wrote: Tom Watson wrote: On Sun, 30 May 2004 12:16:12 -0400, "J. Clarke" wrote: I note that neither of you has given any indication that solvent cementing using methylene chloride and Corian dust will be unsatisfactory in any manner whatsoever. Do you have any reason to believe that it will? The problem that I'm having with this is that you are fixating on the chemistry, to the exclusion of other considerations. That's because the chemistry is supposedly available only from DuPont. The rest one can figure out one way or another. Given a drop of their magic elixir it would be an easy job to determine what their seam kit holds. FTIR Mass Spectroscopy and a few other analytical tools will tell all. RB What about the selection of the sheets for color matching? What about the proper type and preparation of the substrate? What about the choice of choice of acceptable methods to cut the sheets? What about the proper tolerances for straightness and the gap between joined sheets? What about the proper clamping pressure at the seam? What about how much to overfill the seam and what techniques are best to deal with that? What about the proper radius that's allowed in the cutouts? In areas where cutouts are for stovetops, there is a specific 3M tape that is used as a backer at the seam - what kind is it? What about the mixing time of the seam kit? Should you knead by hand, or put the tube in the clamp on you half-sheet sander, and run the sander for how long? Who's got a seam kit? And you mean that it's not labelled? Speaking of sanders, what is the best type to use and what grits should you start with? What type of abrasive is best? If you want to bring it up to a gloss, what grits and compounds are used to do this? The above is certainly not an exhaustive listing - merely a friendly warning. Substitute "Jarrah" or "Ipe" for "Corian" in the above and do any of the questions change? Do you know the answers to all of them? Does that mean that we should not try to make things out of Jarrah or Ipe? I'm sorry, but the fact that one is going to have to do some experimentation to back into the information that duPont _could_ make available at no cost to themselves, does not make solid surface impossible for anybody but those who have been trained by DuPont to work with, it just means that one has to devote the same effort to learning its properties that one does to learning the properties of any unfamiliar material. And what is the cost of a screwed up countertop bond? It's just something to fix. It's not like the world ends or anything. Now, if you really cared about helping people instead of protecting us from ourselves then you might provide the benefit of your vast training and experience. Regards, Tom. Thomas J.Watson - Cabinetmaker (ret.) tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (real email) http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1 |
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Mark & Juanita wrote in message ws.com...
On Sun, 30 May 2004 16:50:49 -0600, Alan Bierbaum wrote: On Sun, 30 May 2004 22:19:43 GMT, Mark & Juanita wrote: On Sun, 30 May 2004 15:05:41 -0600, Alan Bierbaum wrote: On Sun, 30 May 2004 20:36:39 GMT, Mark & Juanita wrote: snip ... snip Not as single crystals. However, as quartz rock, it is available: http://www.cambriausa.com/consumer/ This was the only link I have found thus far that uses solid stone vs. ground up and reformulated stone. ... more snip If you read the cited articles; you will notice that they talk of "engineered stone" - this is not a natural product; it is fabricated by some type of glue and stone and quartz particles. Alan Bierbaum Yep, you're right. After more careful inspection, it appears that this is also engineered material. Funny thing, you really have to dig to find that, looking at the first parts of their web pages, you get quotes such as, "CAMBRIA is pure natural Quartz stone mined out of the earth. It has the look and feel of granite with superior performance." That's from the Product Info page, From the how we compare page, in the table it lists both Cambria and Granite as "Natural Stone". Yeah, "natural" as in ground up with epoxy binders -- just like MDF is "natural wood". Kind of misleading. Thanks for helping set me straight -- looks like granite is still the top of choice if one desires natural stone that is less porous than marble. I've been researching counter top materials for some time. Info I have is that ALL the quartz products are made by the same process, on the same patented Italian made machines. Dupont has one in Canada, they charge more for their product. Silestone and Cesar Stone, perhaps others by now, are the same thing. One product brochure, Silestone I believe, stated there is 90% Quartz and 10% binder material in the product, making it harder and less porous than granite. Needs no sealer, will not stain. Can't be scratched with a knife. MAY burn under high enough temp., not sure what that is. This will be my choice when I get around to our kitchen, expecting it to outlast me! |
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On Sun, 30 May 2004 15:05:41 -0600, Alan Bierbaum
wrote: On Sun, 30 May 2004 20:36:39 GMT, Mark & Juanita wrote: snip Speaking of which, at a tangent, we had been considering granite for our kitchen. Now, however, it appears that quartz is also a viable material and less porous than even granite. However, when doing a search for quartz countertops, or even "natural" quartz countertops, I get all sorts of hits in which claims are made for things like "silestone" and a couple of other products are "natural quartz" One has to read the fine print really, really closely to identify that these are composite materials using "natural quartz" in some sort of binder. Yet the big print yells "NATURAL QUARTZ"! Gettin' kind of frustrating trying to find some web pages with examples of real quartz countertops -- and by real I mean, honest, no kidding, cut from the quarry solid quartz -- not something ground up and reformulated with new colors in an attractive plastic binder. I don't think that quartz grows big enough for counter tops. In a past life, I ran a quartz crystal plant for quartz crystals used in communications equipment. The raw quartz crystals were in the 1-1 1/2" diameter and 6" length range. Alan Bierbaum web site: http://www.calanb.com single quartz crystals do get pretty damn big in nature, but they're rare. quartzite, though- cryptocrystalline quartz- can be any size, up to and including a whole mountainside. this is prolly the stuff that these counters would be made of. and yes, it would make a dandy counter.... |
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Rick Samuel wrote:
I work with epoxy and glass & graphite fibers. Epoxy is almost $1000/qt, fibers about $100/lb. Rings weigh around 350-400lbs. Yes, there is only ONE way to do some things. Oh? You developed the process yourself? If not, then how do you know that it is the only one possible? There is, in engineering, seldom only one way to do a job. However when it is time to cut chips, you have to pick one of the alternatives and put it on the specs and on the drawings and in the work sheets and wherever else it needs to be. So, there are probably several ways to do whatever you do with your mysterious "rings". Find the engineer who came up with the process and if he's the friendly and talkative sort ask him what alternatives were considered and why the one you use was chosen and you may get a surprise. J. Clarke wrote: Unisaw A100 wrote: J. Clarke wrote: I note that neither of you has given any indication that solvent cementing using methylene chloride and Corian dust will be unsatisfactory in any manner whatsoever. Do you have any reason to believe that it will? Only by DuPont's standards. Meaningless statement. Says you have no experience, no test results, no theory, nothing to suggest that there might be a problem, all that you know is that DuPont told you one way to do a job and so to your way of thinking that is the only possible way to do it. -- --John Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net) |
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Unisaw A100 wrote:
Meaningless statement. Says you have no experience, no test results, no theory, nothing to suggest that there might be a problem, all that you know is that DuPont told you one way to do a job and so to your way of thinking that is the only possible way to do it. Wow! How do you breath with your pants so bunched up J.? Coming from someone who is arguing engineering on the basis of religious faith (There is only One Good, Right, and True DuPont Way and all other paths lead to damnation) that's a laugh. UA100 -- --John Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net) |
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Tom Watson wrote:
On Sun, 30 May 2004 17:08:32 -0400, "J. Clarke" wrote: I see. So the standard solvent-cementing procedure that holds up in aquaria, aircraft, spacecraft, and numerous other places where acrylic under stresses far greater than any likely to be encountered in a blasted countertop is used will "have no strength" in Corian? Now why is that? Damn, this place is getting tiresome. In other words being asked to question your assumptions makes you uncomfortable? Regards, Tom. Thomas J.Watson - Cabinetmaker (ret.) tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (real email) http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1 -- --John Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net) |
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