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Woodworking (rec.woodworking) Discussion forum covering all aspects of working with wood. All levels of expertise are encouraged to particiapte. |
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OT - Discussion, Debate, Arguements & Flame Wars
I normally avoid commenting on the "diversion" threads
that ebb and flow here but here goes an exception. I hope this doesn't turn into a thread but rather stops with this post. As noted in the Subject line, there seem to be four types of OT threads that have legs (I'm excluding the bomb hurling trolls that pop up once in a while). Discussion - An exchange of ideas and opinions on a subject, or two or three. All participating parties contribute by adding information on the subject or asking questions motivated by a desire to gain some knowledge about, or insight on, the subject. The exchange remains friendly, or at least what use to be understood as civil, though friendly banter and jibes are thrown in amongst participants who know each other. Everyone participates with an open mind. This type of thread is typically beneficial to all parties in that everyone comes away with some- thing they didn't know before or a better under- standing of the subject. This is not a Zero Sum Game where someone wants to "win" and for someone else to "lose" It can be a Win-Win proposition. Debate - A structured contest between two individuals or "sides" to determine "who is right" about a given premise. The process is structured, each side giving their initial statement of position, a period of exchanges of challenges and responses to each other's positions and finally concluding remarks by each side, typically summarizing why "I'm/we're right and "he/they are wrong". The debaters typically use facts to support their position, citing sources for these facts. An ostensibly neutral judge or panel will determine "the winner" based on a set of rules and guidelines - though personal biases some- times do play a role in the decision making process. The goal is to "win", not to persuade "the other side" to change their position based on the "points" one makes during the debate. The participants make no attempt to keep and open mind, that's for the judge and the audience to do - sort of. In a good debate, civility is normally maintained by a moderator and the participants are knowledge- able enough on the subject to be able to take either side of the debate and "win". The audience comes away from the exchange with new information about the subject. Arguement - None of the participants come to the process with an open mind nor the expectation of persuading other participants, or anyone in "the audience", to accept their position as "right". Arguements are a Lose-Lose Game. They may have an entertainment value, and sometimes provide some useful information, but that's fairly rare Flame Wars - A seemingly never ending exchange of "Oh yeah? Well you're mother wears combat boots!" There is NOTHING to be gained by anyone from a Flame War. So, before you reply to an OT post, think- "Is there a better use of my time?" charlie b Never try to teach a pig to whistle. It'll **** off the pig and waste your time. |
#2
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OT - Discussion, Debate, Arguements & Flame Wars
In article ,
charlie b wrote: Never try to teach a pig to whistle. It'll **** off the pig and waste your time. nit-pick -- the correct quote is: "Never attempt to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time, and annoys the pig." The source is "Time Enough for Love", by Robert A. Heinlein, in the excerpts from "The Notebooks of Lazarus Long". (it's been a favorit quote of mine for 30+ years |
#3
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OT - Discussion, Debate, Arguements & Flame Wars
Oh yeah? Well your mother wears combat boots!
charlie b wrote in message ... I normally avoid commenting on the "diversion" threads that ebb and flow here but here goes an exception. I hope this doesn't turn into a thread but rather stops with this post. As noted in the Subject line, there seem to be four types of OT threads that have legs (I'm excluding the bomb hurling trolls that pop up once in a while). Discussion - An exchange of ideas and opinions on a subject, or two or three. All participating parties contribute by adding information on the subject or asking questions motivated by a desire to gain some knowledge about, or insight on, the subject. The exchange remains friendly, or at least what use to be understood as civil, though friendly banter and jibes are thrown in amongst participants who know each other. Everyone participates with an open mind. This type of thread is typically beneficial to all parties in that everyone comes away with some- thing they didn't know before or a better under- standing of the subject. This is not a Zero Sum Game where someone wants to "win" and for someone else to "lose" It can be a Win-Win proposition. Debate - A structured contest between two individuals or "sides" to determine "who is right" about a given premise. The process is structured, each side giving their initial statement of position, a period of exchanges of challenges and responses to each other's positions and finally concluding remarks by each side, typically summarizing why "I'm/we're right and "he/they are wrong". The debaters typically use facts to support their position, citing sources for these facts. An ostensibly neutral judge or panel will determine "the winner" based on a set of rules and guidelines - though personal biases some- times do play a role in the decision making process. The goal is to "win", not to persuade "the other side" to change their position based on the "points" one makes during the debate. The participants make no attempt to keep and open mind, that's for the judge and the audience to do - sort of. In a good debate, civility is normally maintained by a moderator and the participants are knowledge- able enough on the subject to be able to take either side of the debate and "win". The audience comes away from the exchange with new information about the subject. Arguement - None of the participants come to the process with an open mind nor the expectation of persuading other participants, or anyone in "the audience", to accept their position as "right". Arguements are a Lose-Lose Game. They may have an entertainment value, and sometimes provide some useful information, but that's fairly rare Flame Wars - A seemingly never ending exchange of "Oh yeah? Well you're mother wears combat boots!" There is NOTHING to be gained by anyone from a Flame War. So, before you reply to an OT post, think- "Is there a better use of my time?" charlie b Never try to teach a pig to whistle. It'll **** off the pig and waste your time. |
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OT - Discussion, Debate, Arguements & Flame Wars
Robert, what happened to all the "*_-'"'s?? I can't
understand your posts without them! dave Robert Bonomi wrote: In article , charlie b wrote: Never try to teach a pig to whistle. It'll **** off the pig and waste your time. nit-pick -- the correct quote is: "Never attempt to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time, and annoys the pig." The source is "Time Enough for Love", by Robert A. Heinlein, in the excerpts from "The Notebooks of Lazarus Long". (it's been a favorit quote of mine for 30+ years |
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OT - Discussion, Debate, Arguements & Flame Wars
charlie b wrote in
: snippage So, before you reply to an OT post, think- "Is there a better use of my time?" charlie b Well, charlie b, that could SERIOUSLY limit my wReck time! ;-) Patriarch, who must have SOMETHING better to do.... |
#6
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OT - Discussion, Debate, Arguements & Flame Wars
In article ,
David Hall wrote: Oh yeah? Well your mother wears combat boots! "All the better to kick your *ss with", she says, sweetly. charlie b wrote in message ... I normally avoid commenting on the "diversion" threads that ebb and flow here but here goes an exception. I hope this doesn't turn into a thread but rather stops with this post. As noted in the Subject line, there seem to be four types of OT threads that have legs (I'm excluding the bomb hurling trolls that pop up once in a while). Discussion - An exchange of ideas and opinions on a subject, or two or three. All participating parties contribute by adding information on the subject or asking questions motivated by a desire to gain some knowledge about, or insight on, the subject. The exchange remains friendly, or at least what use to be understood as civil, though friendly banter and jibes are thrown in amongst participants who know each other. Everyone participates with an open mind. This type of thread is typically beneficial to all parties in that everyone comes away with some- thing they didn't know before or a better under- standing of the subject. This is not a Zero Sum Game where someone wants to "win" and for someone else to "lose" It can be a Win-Win proposition. Debate - A structured contest between two individuals or "sides" to determine "who is right" about a given premise. The process is structured, each side giving their initial statement of position, a period of exchanges of challenges and responses to each other's positions and finally concluding remarks by each side, typically summarizing why "I'm/we're right and "he/they are wrong". The debaters typically use facts to support their position, citing sources for these facts. An ostensibly neutral judge or panel will determine "the winner" based on a set of rules and guidelines - though personal biases some- times do play a role in the decision making process. The goal is to "win", not to persuade "the other side" to change their position based on the "points" one makes during the debate. The participants make no attempt to keep and open mind, that's for the judge and the audience to do - sort of. In a good debate, civility is normally maintained by a moderator and the participants are knowledge- able enough on the subject to be able to take either side of the debate and "win". The audience comes away from the exchange with new information about the subject. Arguement - None of the participants come to the process with an open mind nor the expectation of persuading other participants, or anyone in "the audience", to accept their position as "right". Arguements are a Lose-Lose Game. They may have an entertainment value, and sometimes provide some useful information, but that's fairly rare Flame Wars - A seemingly never ending exchange of "Oh yeah? Well you're mother wears combat boots!" There is NOTHING to be gained by anyone from a Flame War. So, before you reply to an OT post, think- "Is there a better use of my time?" charlie b Never try to teach a pig to whistle. It'll **** off the pig and waste your time. |
#7
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OT - Discussion, Debate, Arguements & Flame Wars
charlie b wrote:
So, before you reply to an OT post, think- "Is there a better use of my time?" MYFB -- Bill |
#8
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OT - Discussion, Debate, Arguements & Flame Wars
charlie b wrote in message ...
Flame Wars - A seemingly never ending exchange of "Oh yeah? Well you're mother wears combat boots!" There is NOTHING to be gained by anyone from a Flame War. Then I guess this wouldn't be a good time to point out that you misplet "your", would it? Mike |
#9
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OT - Discussion, Debate, Arguements & Flame Wars
-- Al Reid "It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so." --- Mark Twain "mycroftt" wrote in message om... charlie b wrote in message ... Flame Wars - A seemingly never ending exchange of "Oh yeah? Well you're mother wears combat boots!" There is NOTHING to be gained by anyone from a Flame War. Then I guess this wouldn't be a good time to point out that you misplet "your", would it? Mike Then I guess this wouldn't be a good time to point out that you misspelled "misspelled", would it? Al |
#10
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OT - Discussion, Debate, Arguements & Flame Wars
In article ,
Al Reid wrote: -- Al Reid "It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so." --- Mark Twain "mycroftt" wrote in message . com... charlie b wrote in message ... Flame Wars - A seemingly never ending exchange of "Oh yeah? Well you're mother wears combat boots!" There is NOTHING to be gained by anyone from a Flame War. Then I guess this wouldn't be a good time to point out that you misplet "your", would it? Mike Then I guess this wouldn't be a good time to point out that you misspelled "misspelled", would it? Bzzzzt! You just flunked USENET 101. It is a universal law that every spelling flame MUST contain at least one spelling error, itself. grin |
#11
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OT - Discussion, Debate, Arguements & Flame Wars
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#12
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OT - Discussion, Debate, Arguements & Flame Wars
In article m,
Doug Miller wrote: In article s.com, (Robert Bonomi) wrote: In article , Al Reid wrote: "It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so." --- Mark Twain Then I guess this wouldn't be a good time to point out that you misspelled "misspelled", would it? Bzzzzt! You just flunked USENET 101. It is a universal law that every spelling flame MUST contain at least one spelling error, itself. grin And you, in turn, failed to spot Al's misattribution to Mark Twain of something that was actually said by Josh Billings. :-) Not surprisingly, I've been told I have not a drop of Clemens-y in my soul. :P |
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