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#1
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Dye preferences?
Want to dye maple jet black. Vinegar / iron solution gives a nice,
silver grey, but not black. Water-soluble, also warps wood more than alcohol or oil-based, prefer not to use water-based. |
#2
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Dye preferences?
On Dec 11, 12:39*am, Father Haskell wrote:
Want to dye maple jet black. *Vinegar / iron solution gives a nice, silver grey, but not black. *Water-soluble, also warps wood more than alcohol or oil-based, prefer not to use water-based. Since you are wanting "jet black", I assume you mean an opaque colorant. Why don't you use black lacquer? It isn't water based, works well, and will be completely black with just a couple of coats. If you don't like the sheen, then you can burnish it to a satin with a little elbow grease. Then of course, there is always a super high quality paint that mimics lacquer in appearance but will be available over the counter in the sheen you want. Robert |
#3
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Dye preferences?
wrote in message ... On Dec 11, 12:39 am, Father Haskell wrote: Want to dye maple jet black. Vinegar / iron solution gives a nice, silver grey, but not black. Water-soluble, also warps wood more than alcohol or oil-based, prefer not to use water-based. Since you are wanting "jet black", I assume you mean an opaque colorant. Why don't you use black lacquer? It isn't water based, works well, and will be completely black with just a couple of coats. [...] He is right. IME it is not possible to totally blacken wood by stain/dye, you will see the grain no matter how many coats you apply. You need to use a black laquer. Tim W |
#4
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Dye preferences?
On Dec 11, 1:39*am, Father Haskell wrote:
Want to dye maple jet black. *Vinegar / iron solution gives a nice, silver grey, but not black. *Water-soluble, also warps wood more than alcohol or oil-based, prefer not to use water-based. Try black leather (or shoe) dye. A few hours after it dries, wipe it with a soft cloth. A coat of oil or varnish will seal the color in the wood. |
#6
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Dye preferences?
I'll second the India ink, I have used it very successfully.
Just make sure you wear nytril gloves whenever dying. I usually will put two layers on when dealing with certain woods. because they can tear the first layer. Consider dyes and India ink to be close to tattoo ink. On 12/11/2010 8:03 AM, dadiOH wrote: Father Haskell wrote: Want to dye maple jet black. Vinegar / iron solution gives a nice, silver grey, but not black. Water-soluble, also warps wood more than alcohol or oil-based, prefer not to use water-based. How much maple? Marking pens get stuff nice and black, so does India ink but I don't know if it comes in other than a water base. |
#7
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Dye preferences?
On Dec 11, 8:54*am, "Mike Marlow"
wrote: Try black leather (or shoe) dye. A few hours after it dries, wipe it with a soft cloth. A coat of oil or varnish will seal the color in the wood. That won't yield a jet black finish though. Even more fun than that would be getting any kind of finish such as varnish to stick on certain dyes. To penetrate the leather, *some* have a large amount of animal fat based oils in suspension them to hold the colorants. Some of them also have waxes in them that allow them to be buffed for a light sheen. Not only would you have an uneven finish because of the porosity of the maple, but likely not much would stick it after dye/oil/wax is applied. Personally, I have never understood why folks try to make finishing so hard by trying to reinvent the wheel. If you have a tiny project, India ink is good choice. Not such a good idea with a book case, a grandfather clock, etc. as it is too expensive to be practical. Nor does it always give predictable results. Why would you use ink when you can apply color and finish in one step and build from there? And I have absolutely no remote clue why anyone would use a vinegar based solution with unknown metals partially dissolved in it. You can never match the density of the solids in a manufactured product (which some contain powdered metals of exact specification and particle size) by throwing filings and old nails and screws in a jar of vinegar for a couple of weeks. Then of course, after application you leave behind the traces of acetic acid from the vinegar along with any other impurities you introduced from your garage lab... Go to a good paint store, get what you need, apply it as per instructions. Read a bit on the internet to learn about possible pitfalls. Be prepared when you start. Have an afternoon of successful finishing while enjoying a cup of coffee. Done. Robert |
#8
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Dye preferences?
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#9
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Dye preferences?
Father Haskell wrote:
: Want to dye maple jet black. Vinegar / iron solution gives a nice, : silver grey, but not black. Water-soluble, also warps wood more : than alcohol or oil-based, prefer not to use water-based. Indian ink will give you a deep black, and not obscure the grain. -- Andy Barss |
#10
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Dye preferences?
[...snip...]
On a really large piece even shellac is too quick-drying. I'd mix water based dye into a water based finish. FWIW, you can add a retarder, or just dissolve flakes into 99% isopropyl, to extend the working time. |
#11
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Dye preferences?
On Dec 11, 4:52*am, "
wrote: On Dec 11, 12:39*am, Father Haskell wrote: Want to dye maple jet black. *Vinegar / iron solution gives a nice, silver grey, but not black. *Water-soluble, also warps wood more than alcohol or oil-based, prefer not to use water-based. Since you are wanting "jet black", I assume you mean an opaque colorant. Why don't you use black lacquer? *It isn't water based, works well, and will be completely black with just a couple of coats. Want the grain to be visible if you look *very* close. Keeps it interesting. If you don't like the sheen, then you can burnish it to a satin with a little elbow grease. French polish on my last guitar neck was like glass. This one will be even shinier. |
#12
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Dye preferences?
On Dec 11, 12:40*pm, "
wrote: On Dec 11, 8:54*am, "Mike Marlow" wrote: Try black leather (or shoe) dye. A few hours after it dries, wipe it with a soft cloth. A coat of oil or varnish will seal the color in the wood. That won't yield a jet black finish though. Even more fun than that would be getting any kind of finish such as varnish to stick on certain dyes. To penetrate the leather, *some* have a large amount of animal fat based oils in suspension them to hold the colorants. * Tallow. Not sure if shellac sticks to it, or if fully dries. Result is, the piece gets gunked up fast if kept in a dusty environment. Some of them also have waxes in them that allow them to be buffed for a light sheen. Not only would you have an uneven finish because of the porosity of the maple, but likely not much would stick it after dye/oil/wax is applied. Right. I'd prefer to stick with commercial dyes made for wood, like SolarLuxe. Zero experience, though. Anyone? Personally, I have never understood why folks try to make finishing so hard by trying to reinvent the wheel. *If you have a tiny project, India ink is good choice. *Not such a good idea with a book case, a grandfather clock, etc. as it is too expensive to be practical. *Nor does it always give predictable results. *Why would you use ink when you can apply color and finish in one step and build from there? And I have absolutely no remote clue why anyone would use a vinegar based solution with unknown metals partially dissolved in it. * Iron, AFAIK. You can never match the density of the solids in a manufactured product (which some contain powdered metals of exact specification and particle size) by throwing filings and old nails and screws in a jar of vinegar for a couple of weeks. *Then of course, after application you leave behind the traces of acetic acid from the vinegar along with any other impurities you introduced from your garage lab... Go to a good paint store, get what you need, apply it as per instructions. *Read a bit on the internet to learn about possible pitfalls. *Be prepared when you start. *Have an afternoon of successful finishing while enjoying a cup of coffee. *Done. Robert Lots of ways to finish, lots of ways to make a project unique. |
#13
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Dye preferences?
On Dec 11, 5:59*pm, Father Haskell wrote:
Right. *I'd prefer to stick with commercial dyes made for wood, like SolarLuxe. *Zero experience, though. *Anyone? I have used SolarLux for years and personally can't recommend them enough. Unlike the water based stuff, these have tremendous fade resistance. They saturate well, you can thin them to apply them using different methods (I sometimes spray this stuff) and mix them with other colors to make them your own blends. They also do an excellent tone on tone. Great shelf life, reasonably priced and easy to use. Love that stuff. And I have absolutely no remote clue why anyone would use a vinegar based solution with unknown metals partially dissolved in it. * Iron, AFAIK. Yes, but ONE of the keys to good finishing is repeatability. Scratch made homebrews with different materials (this time use filings, another use nails, another use cleaned steel wool, etc.) make colors impossible to duplicate. Additionally, they carry the distinct possibility of carrying contaminants to your finish. Lots of ways to finish, lots of ways to make a project unique. I will certainly grant you that. Finishing is part art, part experience, and part science. Any of those variables can be twisted to have an acceptable outcome. I guess because I do it professionally I need to be able to replicate the colors and finishes without any guessing or hassle. I live fairly close to the Texas border. I remember going down to their furniture stores across the border and there were all kinds of things that were done to wood in a very bohemian way. They used tar dissolved in gasoline to make a black glaze for pine. After it dried, they could even buff it up a bit. They used old rusted nails and who knows what dissolved in containers with light acid (muratic/pool most likely) to speed things up. This was their "brown" dye. A little known fact is that the 78s (records) made here were made from shellac, or a shellac blend. So it was common practice among the thrifty minded finishers to smash the records to dust and melt them as you would regular shellac for finishing use. (I always wonder about those dark hued pieces....) So there are many ways to skin the cat. I just don't make it one step harder than I need to. I get no joy out of making a color I may or may not like from old household items (and couldn't match again on a bet), brewing up a finish that may or may not be something that works, or taking the time to do either. Robert |
#14
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Dye preferences?
There was a time you could buy a quart / liter of India Ink
at an art supply store. Pen and ink types like lots of ink. There are also block ink - dehydrated. Martin On 12/11/2010 9:53 AM, tiredofspam wrote: I'll second the India ink, I have used it very successfully. Just make sure you wear nytril gloves whenever dying. I usually will put two layers on when dealing with certain woods. because they can tear the first layer. Consider dyes and India ink to be close to tattoo ink. On 12/11/2010 8:03 AM, dadiOH wrote: Father Haskell wrote: Want to dye maple jet black. Vinegar / iron solution gives a nice, silver grey, but not black. Water-soluble, also warps wood more than alcohol or oil-based, prefer not to use water-based. How much maple? Marking pens get stuff nice and black, so does India ink but I don't know if it comes in other than a water base. |
#16
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Dye preferences?
On Dec 11, 1:39*am, Father Haskell wrote:
Want to dye maple jet black. *Vinegar / iron solution gives a nice, silver grey, but not black. *Water-soluble, also warps wood more than alcohol or oil-based, prefer not to use water-based. Water won't warp your piece as bad as you think. I had a similar problem when I wanted to dye poplar black without the green bleeding through. I mixed a small container of Transfast black dye into 1 (or 1-1/4) cups of water (and yes I know the directions say it makes a lot more than that). Then added 1 small container of india ink. Put it in a squirt bottle and tried it out. Added another bottle of india ink and it worked well. The only draw back is that it will leave a white residue on the surface that you can wipe off. Then I followed with 2 coats of ebony stain. Coated it with 2 coats of MW satin poly. I will warn you that if you spill anything on the finish before the poly is applied, the black will lift some and you can't fix it. It will give you a nice jet black finish. The only other thing might be multiple coats of Minwax Ebony stain then followed with a couple of coats of a tinted shellac. Or you might want to experiment with: Ink jet printer ink (the refill bottles) RIT dyes ( for clothing) India ink The only problem is that maple doesn't contain very much tannin and that is why the vinegar/steel wool didn't work very well. if you DAGS "tannin tea" or "ebonizing maple" you will get pointed more on what to do. Allen |
#17
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Dye preferences?
On Sat, 11 Dec 2010 18:44:49 +0000 (UTC), Andrew Barss
wrote: Father Haskell wrote: : Want to dye maple jet black. Vinegar / iron solution gives a nice, : silver grey, but not black. Water-soluble, also warps wood more : than alcohol or oil-based, prefer not to use water-based. Indian ink will give you a deep black, and not obscure the grain. Another easily accessible cheap solution is ink jet ink. Black ink comes in both dye and pigment form and is available for about $5 for 4 ounces. -- Andy Barss |
#18
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Dye preferences?
Father Haskell wrote:
Want to dye maple jet black. Vinegar / iron solution gives a nice, silver grey, but not black. Water-soluble, also warps wood more than alcohol or oil-based, prefer not to use water-based. Early in 2010 there was a discussion on here about ebonizing wood, triggered by an article by Brian Boggs in Popular Woodworking. It involved using quebracho extract (used in the taxidermy field) to add tannin to the wood, and then applying vinegar/iron solution. I bought the extract, tried out the recipe on maple, with stunning results. It took 2 or 3 cycles of the application, but the result was really black maple, similar to coal. cheers ... brian Stillwater Lake, Nova Scotia |
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