I'd like to build a fireplace mantel that features veneered panels.

Unlike say a cabinet door, the other side of the panel will never be
seen.

Is it neccesary to veneer both sides? Does MDF move with moisture?

Brian,

Try this for some info

http://www.woodweb.com/knowledge_bas...od_Veneer.html

Bob S.

"brian roth" wrote in message
...
I'd like to build a fireplace mantel that features veneered panels.

Unlike say a cabinet door, the other side of the panel will never be
seen.

Is it neccesary to veneer both sides? Does MDF move with moisture?

"brian roth" wrote in message
...
I'd like to build a fireplace mantel that features veneered panels.

Unlike say a cabinet door, the other side of the panel will never be
seen.

Is it neccesary to veneer both sides? Does MDF move with moisture?


Have you thought about what the heat rising up to the mantel might to the
veneer/glue on the mantel?

Answering your question, MDF absolutely moves with moisture. Not so much
with relative humidity but if it gets wet and is not immediately wiped dry
it will swell.

Under normal circumstances temperatures being the same it is not necessarily
necessary to veneer both sides but it is best. With an extreme temp
difference you will be seeing it is probably a must and I would probably
want to cover the seams/ edges to hide expansion and contraction with temp
changes.

In article c069efa2-f11c-4615-8ca3-b8836cf17ee3
@i4g2000pro.googlegroups.com, says...

On Nov 13, 9:16*am, brian roth wrote:
I'd like to build a fireplace mantel that features veneered panels.

Unlike say a cabinet door, the other side of the panel will never be
seen.

Is it neccesary to veneer both sides? *Does MDF move with moisture?

If the other side of the panel is invisible, you can choose MDF with
veneer just one side.
MDF is stable with moisture .

Lay a piece on your lawn and see how it looks the next morning.

On Nov 14, 8:49*pm, "http://www.Towood.com/"
wrote:
On Nov 13, 9:16*am, brian roth wrote:

I'd like to build a fireplace mantel that features veneered panels.

Unlike say a cabinet door, the other side of the panel will never be
seen.

Is it neccesary to veneer both sides? *Does MDF move with moisture?

If the other side of the panel is invisible, you can choose MDF with
veneer just one side.
MDF is stable with moisture .

I have worked with MDF for decades in many environments and MDF is NOT
stable with moisture.

On 11/14/10 10:00 PM, Robatoy wrote:
I have worked with MDF for decades in many environments and MDF is NOT
stable with moisture.

I used to frequent a Bob Evans restaurant that had a eating counter.
The waitress would always come up, wipe down the counter with a damp
cloth, then put down a fresh paper place mat. The thing would curl up
like a ribbon, because the paper fibers on one side got damp and expanded.
That's the same thing that happens to mdf.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On Nov 14, 10:41*pm, "J. Clarke" wrote:
In article c069efa2-f11c-4615-8ca3-b8836cf17ee3
@i4g2000pro.googlegroups.com, says...



On Nov 13, 9:16*am, brian roth wrote:
I'd like to build a fireplace mantel that features veneered panels.

Unlike say a cabinet door, the other side of the panel will never be
seen.

Is it neccesary to veneer both sides? *Does MDF move with moisture?

If the other side of the panel is invisible, you can choose MDF with
veneer just one side.
MDF is stable with moisture .

Lay a piece on your lawn and see how it looks the next morning.

The grass gets all yellowy?

On Nov 13, 9:37*am, "Leon" wrote:
"brian roth" wrote in message



Have you thought about what the heat rising up to the mantel might to the
veneer/glue on the mantel?


When read the original post I was thinking the same thing. When I
built our mantel I used solid 2" Oak and placed it well above the
minimum height recommended by the fireplace/stove manufacturer. That
dude still gets warm. You might want to check into the durability of
MDF when exposed to heat in the 120 to 130 degree range. I don't know
if it will degrade; but best to know now.

RonB

In article 5ddf3f89-bf6d-48e0-a009-88867b7d7232
@a37g2000yqi.googlegroups.com, says...

On Nov 13, 9:37*am, "Leon" wrote:
"brian roth" wrote in message



Have you thought about what the heat rising up to the mantel might to the
veneer/glue on the mantel?


When read the original post I was thinking the same thing. When I
built our mantel I used solid 2" Oak and placed it well above the
minimum height recommended by the fireplace/stove manufacturer. That
dude still gets warm. You might want to check into the durability of
MDF when exposed to heat in the 120 to 130 degree range. I don't know
if it will degrade; but best to know now.

I don't understand this business of mantels being exposed to heat.
Maybe I'm just old fashioned but to me a mantel is a part of a brick or
stone fireplace and if it gets too hot for a cat to sleep on something
is badly wrong.

On Nov 17, 3:42*am, "J. Clarke" wrote:
In article 5ddf3f89-bf6d-48e0-a009-88867b7d7232
@a37g2000yqi.googlegroups.com, says...





On Nov 13, 9:37*am, "Leon" wrote:
"brian roth" wrote in message

Have you thought about what the heat rising up to the mantel might to the
veneer/glue on the mantel?

When read the original post I was thinking the same thing. *When I
built our mantel I used solid 2" Oak and placed it well above the
minimum height recommended by the fireplace/stove manufacturer. *That
dude still gets warm. *You might want to check into the durability of
MDF when exposed to heat in the 120 to 130 degree range. *I don't know
if it will degrade; but best to know now.

I don't understand this business of mantels being exposed to heat. *
Maybe I'm just old fashioned but to me a mantel is a part of a brick or
stone fireplace and if it gets too hot for a cat to sleep on something
is badly wrong.

A good part of the mantles being installed today are on insert
fireplaces. These are essentially gas heaters or wood-burning stoves
that have brick or tile faces surrounded by wood trim and a mantel.
Little or no masonry

For example, we installed a Buckmaster high efficiency wood stove in
our house which is essentially a souped-up insert with external
combustion air ducts, a catalytic combuster and a blower system. The
unit builds in like a fireplace with ceramic tile front surrounded by
mantel front and shelf. Buck provides specific installation
instructions and clearances and our installation clearances exceed
recommendations. The internal temperatures in these catalytic
fireplaces gets above 1000 degrees and they put out heat. Heat rises
from the face and the mantle gets warm. We had two gas fireplaces in
our previous house and the mantle above the insert face got warm. The
front of the masonry wood-burning fireplace and mantle in the older
house we lived in got warm. I cannot imagine the front of a
fireplace, that gets used, not getting warm.

I am just a little concerned that fireplace facing is the best place
to use MDF. The temperatures involved with our current installation
are in the 90 to 120 degree range. Far-far from any combustion
concerns but I was suggesting the poster should look at long term
effects of heat on his material. Some fireplaces sit unused during
much of their lives. Ours is running now and will run muchof the them
for the next 4-5 months. Will MDF or Veneered MDF hold up to this?

Also, depends on the cat. Our, now dearly departed, dog would have
loved to lay on our warm mantle if he could have hoisted his aging 105
pound butt up there. :^}

RonB

"RonB" wrote in message
...
On Nov 17, 3:42 am, "J. Clarke" wrote:
In article 5ddf3f89-bf6d-48e0-a009-88867b7d7232
@a37g2000yqi.googlegroups.com, says...





On Nov 13, 9:37 am, "Leon" wrote:
"brian roth" wrote in message

Have you thought about what the heat rising up to the mantel might to
the
veneer/glue on the mantel?

When read the original post I was thinking the same thing. When I
built our mantel I used solid 2" Oak and placed it well above the
minimum height recommended by the fireplace/stove manufacturer. That
dude still gets warm. You might want to check into the durability of
MDF when exposed to heat in the 120 to 130 degree range. I don't know
if it will degrade; but best to know now.

I don't understand this business of mantels being exposed to heat.
Maybe I'm just old fashioned but to me a mantel is a part of a brick or
stone fireplace and if it gets too hot for a cat to sleep on something
is badly wrong.

Snip


Actually a wood fire place mantel in many states has to be built to meet
code as it is normal for them to get warm to hot and could catch on fire.
If a mantel gets hot the fire place tends to be a bit more efficient as more
of the heat is actually coming out into the room vs. going up the chimney.

In article , lcb11211
@swbell.dotnet says...

"RonB" wrote in message
...
On Nov 17, 3:42 am, "J. Clarke" wrote:
In article 5ddf3f89-bf6d-48e0-a009-88867b7d7232
@a37g2000yqi.googlegroups.com, says...





On Nov 13, 9:37 am, "Leon" wrote:
"brian roth" wrote in message

Have you thought about what the heat rising up to the mantel might to
the
veneer/glue on the mantel?

When read the original post I was thinking the same thing. When I
built our mantel I used solid 2" Oak and placed it well above the
minimum height recommended by the fireplace/stove manufacturer. That
dude still gets warm. You might want to check into the durability of
MDF when exposed to heat in the 120 to 130 degree range. I don't know
if it will degrade; but best to know now.

I don't understand this business of mantels being exposed to heat.
Maybe I'm just old fashioned but to me a mantel is a part of a brick or
stone fireplace and if it gets too hot for a cat to sleep on something
is badly wrong.

Snip


Actually a wood fire place mantel in many states has to be built to meet
code as it is normal for them to get warm to hot and could catch on fire.
If a mantel gets hot the fire place tends to be a bit more efficient as more
of the heat is actually coming out into the room vs. going up the chimney.

Everything has to be built to meet code if there is a code. I don't see
how that changes anything. I can see where it's an issue with some
modrin stove that pretends to be a fireplace, but if it's the real
firebrick-lined brick and mortar deal there's a lot of brick and mortar
between the mantel and the fire and only a slight projecting lip of wood
above.

If these things are in the wall and get that hot I'd be more worried
about the wall catching fire than the mantel.

If MDF won't take 120F then it's in trouble in Texas.

In article 100e92c2-de51-4ed0-b85b-
, says...

On Nov 17, 3:42*am, "J. Clarke" wrote:
In article 5ddf3f89-bf6d-48e0-a009-88867b7d7232
@a37g2000yqi.googlegroups.com, says...





On Nov 13, 9:37*am, "Leon" wrote:
"brian roth" wrote in message

Have you thought about what the heat rising up to the mantel might to the
veneer/glue on the mantel?

When read the original post I was thinking the same thing. *When I
built our mantel I used solid 2" Oak and placed it well above the
minimum height recommended by the fireplace/stove manufacturer. *That
dude still gets warm. *You might want to check into the durability of
MDF when exposed to heat in the 120 to 130 degree range. *I don't know
if it will degrade; but best to know now.

I don't understand this business of mantels being exposed to heat. *
Maybe I'm just old fashioned but to me a mantel is a part of a brick or
stone fireplace and if it gets too hot for a cat to sleep on something
is badly wrong.

A good part of the mantles being installed today are on insert
fireplaces. These are essentially gas heaters or wood-burning stoves
that have brick or tile faces surrounded by wood trim and a mantel.
Little or no masonry

For example, we installed a Buckmaster high efficiency wood stove in
our house which is essentially a souped-up insert with external
combustion air ducts, a catalytic combuster and a blower system. The
unit builds in like a fireplace with ceramic tile front surrounded by
mantel front and shelf. Buck provides specific installation
instructions and clearances and our installation clearances exceed
recommendations. The internal temperatures in these catalytic
fireplaces gets above 1000 degrees and they put out heat. Heat rises
from the face and the mantle gets warm. We had two gas fireplaces in
our previous house and the mantle above the insert face got warm. The
front of the masonry wood-burning fireplace and mantle in the older
house we lived in got warm. I cannot imagine the front of a
fireplace, that gets used, not getting warm.

The front gets plenty warm, but there's a foot or more of brick and
mortar between that warm and any wood with a real fireplace, and any
heat that gets to the wood has to go through the brick.

The mantel on a real fireplace isn't a shelf that sticks way out in
front of it, it sits on top of the masonry and is supported by it.

I am just a little concerned that fireplace facing is the best place
to use MDF. The temperatures involved with our current installation
are in the 90 to 120 degree range. Far-far from any combustion
concerns but I was suggesting the poster should look at long term
effects of heat on his material. Some fireplaces sit unused during
much of their lives. Ours is running now and will run muchof the them
for the next 4-5 months. Will MDF or Veneered MDF hold up to this?

It was manufactured at around 400F.

Also, depends on the cat. Our, now dearly departed, dog would have
loved to lay on our warm mantle if he could have hoisted his aging 105
pound butt up there. :^}

RonB

On Nov 12, 8:16*pm, brian roth wrote:
I'd like to build a fireplace mantel that features veneered panels.

Unlike say a cabinet door, the other side of the panel will never be
seen.

Is it neccesary to veneer both sides? *Does MDF move with moisture?

My experience is that: It Moves

I had a table top from Subway that I turn into a Router Table top. It
was NOT laminated on the "bottom" and had that plastic edging
installed (The type that fits in a kerf along the edges). After on
year in the basement (cold, not dry) it sagged significantly and I
knew it was my failure to seal the bottom surface with laminate or
equivalent.

For a one off project, the savings between good plywood and MDF are
not worth taking the chance IMHO considering the labor involved ....

On Nov 18, 11:51*am, Hoosierpopi wrote:
On Nov 12, 8:16*pm, brian roth wrote:

I'd like to build a fireplace mantel that features veneered panels.

Unlike say a cabinet door, the other side of the panel will never be
seen.

Is it neccesary to veneer both sides? *Does MDF move with moisture?

My experience is that: It Moves

I had a table top from Subway that I turn into a Router Table top. It
was NOT laminated on the "bottom" and had that plastic edging
installed (The type that fits in a kerf along the edges). After on
year in the basement (cold, not dry) it sagged significantly and I
knew it was my failure to seal the bottom surface with laminate or
equivalent.

For a one off project, the savings between good plywood and MDF are
not worth taking the chance IMHO considering the labor involved ....

Plywood 'curls' just as easily when laminated in an unbalanced way.

Hoosierpopi wrote:


I had a table top from Subway that I turn into a Router Table top. It
was NOT laminated on the "bottom" and had that plastic edging
installed (The type that fits in a kerf along the edges). After on
year in the basement (cold, not dry) it sagged significantly and I
knew it was my failure to seal the bottom surface with laminate or
equivalent.


I suspect the sagging occurred more from lack of support than from a failure
to seal the bottom. MDF does not even hold up its own weight well when not
well supported.

--

-Mike-