Here is the first part of the follow-up about the Charlie Self issue.

First and foremost, I want to offer a sincere apology if I offended
anyone with my last post. The intention was neither to flame, nor to to
be flamed in return. My intentions were not malicious either, as Charlie
tried to spin it. I happen to share the opinion which our friend Bay
Area Dave pointed out. I check in here once or twice a day to
participate in woodworking discussion, with the occasional OT coffee
breaks, like everyone else here. I don't want to hear that sleazy
language when I read it. I am a very devoted Christian, and is my duty
to be a soldier of Christ.

Some of you may think that I am not qualified to offer an opinion on
this matter because you are under the false impression that I am not a
regular of the wreck. Well, I happen to be a regular poster (not just a
lurker) in both rec.photo.digital and here. You all know me by the
handle I use here. Why didn't I post my dissent against Charlie's
swine-like rhetoric under my usual screen name? We all know that the
"dog pack" in here is a machine that can't easily be called off. So I
went yet a step further, and I decided to post my views under my real
name.

Charlie is talking about trying to sue me...so be it. I am not making up
any lies. I simply want to increase the awareness of his readers'
understanding of the complete Charlie Self. Like some people pointed
out, let them make up their own minds whether he is a lowlife slime
bucket or not. My campaign will point out the facts. Examples of what a
slob Charlie can be in a public forum, where women and children also
come to learn. This newsgroup is not just a big sausage party of old
prunes, even though there is a high percentage of middle age+ men here.
Charlie tries to defend his image by pointing out that he only used the
F*** word half of 30 times in this NG. Well I got news for you Mr.
Slimeball, that is 15 times too many in my book. And there are other
dreadful words and phrases besides just the F word that you have spewed
upon us. Look out for my next follow-up with the complete details and
stats, along with some suggestions about how to get the word out about
him.

I would also like to applaud our friend Bay Area Dave for having the
guts to face the dog pack, and point out what (I'm sure) many of us were
thinking about Charlie all along, but were afraid to speak out.

One more thing...I am planning on drafting an RFD ("Request for
discussion", for those of you who are not familiar with the news.*
hierarchy) to amend the rec.woodworking charter to ban such explicit
language in this newsgroup. This will kill multiple birds with a single
stone.

First, it will keep filth-mouths like Charlie from polluting the group
with his language. If the CFV (call for votes) passes news.groups, then
anyone who swears in this group will be in violation of the NG charter,
and that can be actionable by ISPs. Eventually, we can even set up a
robo-moderation to automatically "BLEEP" any of the words on the agreed
list.

Second, a fringe benefit of this will be....well, the obnoxious potty
mouth trolls (like the blasphemous homosexual who has the hots for Theo)
will be filtered too. Expect a [META] post on this issue soon...it will
be cross-posted to news.groups and the wreck.

I'm just trying exercise some leadership and clean this place up, once
and for all, for the benefit of everyone here. Not only do we need to
keep the insignificant pawns (trolls) from flooding us with their filth,
we need to clean up the slime at the top of the food chain too.

-JB

On Wed, 05 May 2004 22:49:07 +0200, wrote:
Here is the first part of the follow-up about the Charlie Self issue.

Why?

First and foremost, I want to offer a sincere apology if I offended
anyone with my last post.

I doubt it.

The intention was neither to flame, nor to to
be flamed in return.

I doubt it.

(snip of lots more of the same)

One more thing...I am planning on drafting an RFD ("Request for
discussion", for those of you who are not familiar with the news.*
hierarchy) to amend the rec.woodworking charter to ban such explicit
language in this newsgroup. This will kill multiple birds with a single
stone.

Why not make your own moderated group for you and your friends,
then? You can hold your mutual admiration society meetings there.

First, it will keep filth-mouths like Charlie from polluting the group
with his language.

Charlie contributes here, has been for years. You, on the other hand,
may or may not be just wandering in here to make noise & hassle.
Compare and contrast those.

If the CFV (call for votes) passes news.groups, then
anyone who swears in this group will be in violation of the NG charter,
and that can be actionable by ISPs.

The scene: abuse desk at an ISP. Mail beeps.
"Hi, your customer said a naughty word on Usenet. You must cancel
their account, because our newsgroup's charter says so."
Tech: WTF is this? Some whiner about "the F word" on a newsgroup. Get
real. delete

Eventually, we can even set up a
robo-moderation to automatically "BLEEP" any of the words on the agreed
list.

Great, so set up your moderated group right away. Solves so many
problems.

Second, a fringe benefit of this will be....well, the obnoxious potty
mouth trolls (like the blasphemous homosexual who has the hots for Theo)
will be filtered too. Expect a [META] post on this issue soon...it will
be cross-posted to news.groups and the wreck.

That's nice.

I'm just trying exercise some leadership and clean this place up, once
and for all, for the benefit of everyone here.

Uh huh. Leadership consists of more than going and telling mom. If
you want to form a moderated ww group, go for it. Oddly enough, though,
the moderators make or break a moderated group. So often, it turns out
that the people who mis-run a moderated group, are the ones who were,
ahem, causing the problems in the unmoderated group in the first place.

Not only do we need to
keep the insignificant pawns (trolls) from flooding us with their filth,
we need to clean up the slime at the top of the food chain too.

Right, so you keep trying to equate our recent troll infestation with
Charlie's contributions here. One of these things is not like the other,
can you spot the distinction? Try hard.

If you want to improve your credibility, you could post what identity
your previous posts here were made under, so the relative merits of
your contributions, and Charlies, could be compared. Without that,
you're just some guy claiming to be some guy coming in to save us
from something we don't need saving from.

wrote in message
news:1083790222_92@LocalHost...
Here is the first part of the follow-up about the Charlie Self issue.

First and foremost, I want to offer a sincere apology if I offended
anyone with my last post. The intention was neither to flame, nor to to
be flamed in return. My intentions were not malicious either, as Charlie
tried to spin it. I happen to share the opinion which our friend Bay
Area Dave pointed out. I check in here once or twice a day to
participate in woodworking discussion, with the occasional OT coffee
breaks, like everyone else here. I don't want to hear that sleazy
language when I read it. I am a very devoted Christian, and is my duty
to be a soldier of Christ.

Some of you may think that I am not qualified to offer an opinion on
this matter because you are under the false impression that I am not a
regular of the wreck. Well, I happen to be a regular poster (not just a
lurker) in both rec.photo.digital and here. You all know me by the
handle I use here. Why didn't I post my dissent against Charlie's
swine-like rhetoric under my usual screen name? We all know that the
"dog pack" in here is a machine that can't easily be called off. So I
went yet a step further, and I decided to post my views under my real
name.

Charlie is talking about trying to sue me...so be it. I am not making up
any lies. I simply want to increase the awareness of his readers'
understanding of the complete Charlie Self. Like some people pointed
out, let them make up their own minds whether he is a lowlife slime
bucket or not. My campaign will point out the facts. Examples of what a
slob Charlie can be in a public forum, where women and children also
come to learn. This newsgroup is not just a big sausage party of old
prunes, even though there is a high percentage of middle age+ men here.
Charlie tries to defend his image by pointing out that he only used the
F*** word half of 30 times in this NG. Well I got news for you Mr.
Slimeball, that is 15 times too many in my book. And there are other
dreadful words and phrases besides just the F word that you have spewed
upon us. Look out for my next follow-up with the complete details and
stats, along with some suggestions about how to get the word out about
him.

I would also like to applaud our friend Bay Area Dave for having the
guts to face the dog pack, and point out what (I'm sure) many of us were
thinking about Charlie all along, but were afraid to speak out.

One more thing...I am planning on drafting an RFD ("Request for
discussion", for those of you who are not familiar with the news.*
hierarchy) to amend the rec.woodworking charter to ban such explicit
language in this newsgroup. This will kill multiple birds with a single
stone.

First, it will keep filth-mouths like Charlie from polluting the group
with his language. If the CFV (call for votes) passes news.groups, then
anyone who swears in this group will be in violation of the NG charter,
and that can be actionable by ISPs. Eventually, we can even set up a
robo-moderation to automatically "BLEEP" any of the words on the agreed
list.

Second, a fringe benefit of this will be....well, the obnoxious potty
mouth trolls (like the blasphemous homosexual who has the hots for Theo)
will be filtered too. Expect a [META] post on this issue soon...it will
be cross-posted to news.groups and the wreck.

I'm just trying exercise some leadership and clean this place up, once
and for all, for the benefit of everyone here. Not only do we need to
keep the insignificant pawns (trolls) from flooding us with their filth,
we need to clean up the slime at the top of the food chain too.

-JB

And which books have you had banned at the library? Please do not help me. I
can act for myself very well, thank you!

TinWoodsmn

So why don't you just go away if you don't like it here. You are a real
PITA and a pest.

wrote in message
news:1083790222_92@LocalHost...

SNIP OF CRAP



Second, a fringe benefit of this will be....well, the obnoxious potty
mouth trolls (like the blasphemous homosexual who has the hots for Theo)
will be filtered too. Expect a [META] post on this issue soon...it will
be cross-posted to news.groups and the wreck.

Cross post to this group and I will sue you too.

wait a minute! Charlie is threatening "Jeremy"?? That's
hilarious. He was whining like the big baby that he is when
he asked if I was threatening HIM (the silly editor thing).
That's a hoot! My comment over on the photo NG was an off
the cuff rhetorical silliness that had no connection with
any intent on my part. I had included that comment just to
TRY to get him to see the absurdity of him flailing away on
line as he does. He can be quite abusive. So can I. I
don't make my living as a writer.

dave

Frank McVey wrote:

Semper Fi, Charlie.

Cheers'

Frank


wrote in message
news:1083790222_92@LocalHost...

Here is the first part of the follow-up about the Charlie Self issue.

First and foremost, I want to offer a sincere apology if I offended
anyone with my last post. The intention was neither to flame, nor to to
be flamed in return. My intentions were not malicious either, as Charlie
tried to spin it. I happen to share the opinion which our friend Bay
Area Dave pointed out. I check in here once or twice a day to
participate in woodworking discussion, with the occasional OT coffee
breaks, like everyone else here. I don't want to hear that sleazy
language when I read it. I am a very devoted Christian, and is my duty
to be a soldier of Christ.

Some of you may think that I am not qualified to offer an opinion on
this matter because you are under the false impression that I am not a
regular of the wreck. Well, I happen to be a regular poster (not just a
lurker) in both rec.photo.digital and here. You all know me by the
handle I use here. Why didn't I post my dissent against Charlie's
swine-like rhetoric under my usual screen name? We all know that the
"dog pack" in here is a machine that can't easily be called off. So I
went yet a step further, and I decided to post my views under my real
name.

Charlie is talking about trying to sue me...so be it. I am not making up
any lies. I simply want to increase the awareness of his readers'
understanding of the complete Charlie Self. Like some people pointed
out, let them make up their own minds whether he is a lowlife slime
bucket or not. My campaign will point out the facts. Examples of what a
slob Charlie can be in a public forum, where women and children also
come to learn. This newsgroup is not just a big sausage party of old
prunes, even though there is a high percentage of middle age+ men here.
Charlie tries to defend his image by pointing out that he only used the
F*** word half of 30 times in this NG. Well I got news for you Mr.
Slimeball, that is 15 times too many in my book. And there are other
dreadful words and phrases besides just the F word that you have spewed
upon us. Look out for my next follow-up with the complete details and
stats, along with some suggestions about how to get the word out about
him.

I would also like to applaud our friend Bay Area Dave for having the
guts to face the dog pack, and point out what (I'm sure) many of us were
thinking about Charlie all along, but were afraid to speak out.

One more thing...I am planning on drafting an RFD ("Request for
discussion", for those of you who are not familiar with the news.*
hierarchy) to amend the rec.woodworking charter to ban such explicit
language in this newsgroup. This will kill multiple birds with a single
stone.

First, it will keep filth-mouths like Charlie from polluting the group
with his language. If the CFV (call for votes) passes news.groups, then
anyone who swears in this group will be in violation of the NG charter,
and that can be actionable by ISPs. Eventually, we can even set up a
robo-moderation to automatically "BLEEP" any of the words on the agreed
list.

Second, a fringe benefit of this will be....well, the obnoxious potty
mouth trolls (like the blasphemous homosexual who has the hots for Theo)
will be filtered too. Expect a [META] post on this issue soon...it will
be cross-posted to news.groups and the wreck.

I'm just trying exercise some leadership and clean this place up, once
and for all, for the benefit of everyone here. Not only do we need to
keep the insignificant pawns (trolls) from flooding us with their filth,
we need to clean up the slime at the top of the food chain too.

-JB




---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.672 / Virus Database: 434 - Release Date: 28/04/2004

In small doses, and on some occasions I've gotten a kick
from his posts, but more often than not they are always
based on kicking someone when they are down. He likes to
jump in after everyone else has done their share of sniping.

dave

Mark L. wrote:

I do have to admit, Dave, I do enjoy Tom's offbeat humor. It lightens
the mood sometimes, in his odd sort of way....... Mark L.

Bay Area Dave wrote:

nice deflection Tom. are you upset he could be one of you miscreants?

dave

Tom Watson wrote:
we now return you to your regular channel)


BTW - The final stage of an organized troll attack is for the trolls
to disguise themselves as regular members of the NG.

you aren't??

dave

Wood Butcher wrote:

Thank you for clearing it up that you really ARE just a vocal asshole
with a biased opinion.

Art


spewed forth an
incredible pile of self righteous sanctimonious bull**** ...
snip

oh no, not the guy who wanted donations 2 years ago for a
death in the family. MIKE ZUCHICK?? AAARGH! No! Let it be
anyone but HIM. Lord, deliver us from EVIL!!!

dave

LRod wrote:

On 5 May 2004 21:43:06 GMT, Dave Hinz wrote:


On Wed, 05 May 2004 22:49:07 +0200, wrote:


I am a very devoted Christian, and is my duty to be a soldier of Christ.


If you want to improve your credibility, you could post what identity
your previous posts here were made under,


Does the phrase "in his name" ring a bell?

That's my bet. And just as full of **** regardless of which ****ing
name he uses.

- -
LRod

Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite

Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999

http://www.woodbutcher.net

did we really get rid of him?? isn't he just taking a
breather? I haven't read anything from or about him in a
while. I hope he got locked up.

dave

Mark L. wrote:

OK, we all have to admit this jackass is just pulling our collective
chains here. I, for one, will be ignoring him in the future. Maybe if
we ignore this little turd, he will go away.

Damn, just when we were rid of that Dizum idiot..... Mark L.

wrote:

Here is the first part of the follow-up about

On Thu, 06 May 2004 00:18:06 GMT, dave in fairfax
wrote:

Dave Hinz wrote:
If you want to improve your credibility, you could post what identity
your previous posts here were made under,

LRod wrote:
Does the phrase "in his name" ring a bell?
That's my bet. And just as full of **** regardless of which ****ing
name he uses.

Maybe, but for a "Christian" his ramblings are mighty obscene. I
did a search on @Plushrecordings and look at wat I found (mind the
wordwrap):
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=e...Search&m eta=
Take a look at the bottom of the first page. This guy is in now
position to be telling anyone how to talk. Looks like time for a
filter addition, to bad the source can't be deleted.
You can find Jeremy on www.anywho.com BTW, just put in his first
and last and FL as the state. He doesn't live where
Plushrecordings is addressed. Now, I don't for a moment believe
that he posts regularly under any name. He isn't in the Bay Area,
so it looks like TWSRUN was unfairly (possible?) suspected.
Dave in Fairfax

most of the results of your google search came through nym.alias.net.
if JB is what he claims to be, a self righteous wannabe censor of
usenet he'd be a obvious target for trolls. if you are that, Jeremy,
here's a quote from one of your usenet providers:


*********************************************
There are many groups on Usenet where people talk about socially
unacceptable, and sometimes, illegal activities. We do NOT support
these activities. The fact that we refuse to block these groups is NOT
a sign of support for the activities. It is a sign that we 1) support
the right for people to talk about these subjects, and 2) that
removing groups is the wrong solution to the social problems which are
at the heart of these issues. Usenet is not the cause of the
underlying social problems, and removing the groups will not solve the
problem, it will only hide it. Hiding a problem is never the right
solution. It is always better to expose these problems to the light of
day than to hide them back in a dark corner. And Usenet, being a
world-wide public discussion forum, is about as much in the "light of
day" as you can get on the Internet.
************************************************** *

you see, usenet is not going to be receptive to your calls for
cencorship. if you don't ever want to see the word "****" on your
computer screen, disconnect it from the internet. better yet, turn it
off and find some other hobbies.




and if he's trolling under his own name he's not covering his tracks
very well.

he's using 2 different accounts to post from, yi.net and
newsreader.com. one of them is one used by a known troll, and the
style is similar to that troll.

here's the whois info for the actual mr baird: somebody might want to
call him up and see if he is in fact making these posts.


Registrant:
Plush Recordings Inc.
19370 Collins Ave.
#1624
Sunny Isles Beach, FL 33160
US
305 772 0338


Domain Name: PLUSHRECORDINGS.NET
contact:
Baird, Jeremy
19370 Collins Ave.
#1624
Sunny Isles Beach, FL 33160
US
305 772 0338

if what you say is true (far be it from me to make THAT
judgment) I can quit worrying that that freak Zuchick (or
Zuchich, whatever) is gonna bug us again...

Isn't it irresponsible for you to post someone's personal
information? Who is the troll now?

dave

wrote:

On Thu, 06 May 2004 00:18:06 GMT, dave in fairfax
wrote:


Dave Hinz wrote:

If you want to improve your credibility, you could post what identity
your previous posts here were made under,

LRod wrote:

Does the phrase "in his name" ring a bell?
That's my bet. And just as full of **** regardless of which ****ing
name he uses.

Maybe, but for a "Christian" his ramblings are mighty obscene. I
did a search on @Plushrecordings and look at wat I found (mind the
wordwrap):
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=e...Search&m eta=
Take a look at the bottom of the first page. This guy is in now
position to be telling anyone how to talk. Looks like time for a
filter addition, to bad the source can't be deleted.
You can find Jeremy on www.anywho.com BTW, just put in his first
and last and FL as the state. He doesn't live where
Plushrecordings is addressed. Now, I don't for a moment believe
that he posts regularly under any name. He isn't in the Bay Area,
so it looks like TWSRUN was unfairly (possible?) suspected.
Dave in Fairfax


most of the results of your google search came through nym.alias.net.
if JB is what he claims to be, a self righteous wannabe censor of
usenet he'd be a obvious target for trolls. if you are that, Jeremy,
here's a quote from one of your usenet providers:


*********************************************
There are many groups on Usenet where people talk about socially
unacceptable, and sometimes, illegal activities. We do NOT support
these activities. The fact that we refuse to block these groups is NOT
a sign of support for the activities. It is a sign that we 1) support
the right for people to talk about these subjects, and 2) that
removing groups is the wrong solution to the social problems which are
at the heart of these issues. Usenet is not the cause of the
underlying social problems, and removing the groups will not solve the
problem, it will only hide it. Hiding a problem is never the right
solution. It is always better to expose these problems to the light of
day than to hide them back in a dark corner. And Usenet, being a
world-wide public discussion forum, is about as much in the "light of
day" as you can get on the Internet.
************************************************** *

you see, usenet is not going to be receptive to your calls for
cencorship. if you don't ever want to see the word "****" on your
computer screen, disconnect it from the internet. better yet, turn it
off and find some other hobbies.




and if he's trolling under his own name he's not covering his tracks
very well.

he's using 2 different accounts to post from, yi.net and
newsreader.com. one of them is one used by a known troll, and the
style is similar to that troll.

here's the whois info for the actual mr baird: somebody might want to
call him up and see if he is in fact making these posts.


Registrant:
Plush Recordings Inc.
19370 Collins Ave.
#1624
Sunny Isles Beach, FL 33160
US
305 772 0338


Domain Name: PLUSHRECORDINGS.NET
contact:
Baird, Jeremy
19370 Collins Ave.
#1624
Sunny Isles Beach, FL 33160
US
305 772 0338

In article 1083790222_92@LocalHost,
wrote:

Here is the first part of the follow-up about the Charlie Self issue.
snip

I don't want to hear that sleazy
language when I read it. I am a very devoted Christian, and is my duty
to be a soldier of Christ.

I am not so sure; although the temptation to always drag that board over
to the powah jointer is strong, it is not always the best choice.
Sometimes it is more effective to just use a handtool. Do you have any
hand planes? A jointer (#7 or #8) can straighten the edge of a board
remarkably quickly. Even a jack plane can do a very good job and they
are cheap'n'easy to come by. You might wanna try it out.

If you have any more questions, just ask.

I didn't snip the personal info because it's already out
there. the horse has left the barn. so anyone who wants
to chastise me for not snipping can bite me.

dave

Bay Area Dave wrote:

huh?

dave

Paul Kierstead wrote:

In article 1083790222_92@LocalHost,
wrote:


Here is the first part of the follow-up about the Charlie Self issue.

snip

I don't want to hear that sleazy
language when I read it. I am a very devoted Christian, and is my duty
to be a soldier of Christ.


I am not so sure; although the temptation to always drag that board over
to the powah jointer is strong, it is not always the best choice.
Sometimes it is more effective to just use a handtool. Do you have any
hand planes? A jointer (#7 or #8) can straighten the edge of a board
remarkably quickly. Even a jack plane can do a very good job and they
are cheap'n'easy to come by. You might wanna try it out.

If you have any more questions, just ask.

Wed, May 5, 2004, 10:49pm (EDT+6)
says:
snip I don't want to hear that sleazy language when I read it. I am a
very devoted Christian, and is my duty to be a soldier of Christ. snip

I thought it was spelled "sleezy". LOL I take it you've never
heard devout Christians, swearing like horse soldiers then.

I take it too, when you hit your thumb with a hammer, you just jump
up and down and say, "Oh goodness, I hit my thumb".

I don't consider myself Christian, which really irks my mother, I
consider myself spiritual, instead. I don't swear much, except when I
hit my thumb, or am puzzled, or tired, or hot, or cold, or hungry, or
too full, or horny, well you get the idea. But, those time isn't really
swearing, it's just saying a cuss word or two. On the times I do
actually swear, I mean really swear, not just a word or two I usually do
a very good job of it. Usually tho, I like to try to show proper
respect for the Woodworking Gods.

But, on occassion, nothing else is qujite as appropriate.

Out of curiosity, I dood a google on Charlie, and the word that
can't be said. Came up with 11 hits. I think he only wrote the
forbidden word in one, the rest were in quotes, written by other people,
he was replying to. Interesting.

JOAT
If you think dogs can't count, try putting three dog biscuits in your
pocket and then giving Fido only two of them.
- Phil Pastoret

wrote in message
news:1083790222_92@LocalHost...
Here is the first part of the follow-up about the Charlie Self issue.
snip

Get used to it, get over it or get the hell out!

'nuff said!

wrong. there were 4.

dave

J T wrote:
I think he only wrote the
forbidden word in one, the rest were in quotes, written by other people,
he was replying to. Interesting.

In article 1083790222_92@LocalHost,
wrote:
Here is the first part of the follow-up about the Charlie Self issue.


Posting through another anonymous mail-to-news gateway.

Published filters have been updated.

wrote:
most of the results of your google search came through nym.alias.net.
if JB is what he claims to be, a self righteous wannabe censor of
usenet he'd be a obvious target for trolls. if you are that, Jeremy,
here's a quote from one of your usenet providers:
and if he's trolling under his own name he's not covering his tracks
very well.
here's the whois info for the actual mr baird: somebody might want to
call him up and see if he is in fact making these posts.

I did call him and we talked. He's never heard of the usenet, and
is now upset and worried, I afraid. When he sees the google that
comes up under his company anme he's likely to be even more
upset. Someone is trolling in his name as suspected. Now that
probably IS actionable. I guess we need to stop thinking about Mr
Baird and play whack-a-troll.

Dave in Fairfax
--
reply-to doesn't work
use:
daveldr at att dot net
American Association of Woodturners
http://www.woodturner.org
Capital Area Woodturners
http://www.capwoodturners.org/