As the title suggests, SHE is going to allow me to make our new kitchen
tops.

Any preferences to wood type?


Ron

I think you'd probably be better off with something other than wood. Not sure
of your situation, but a wooden food-prep area requires a fair amount of
maintenance in order to keep _you_ healthy. So maybe a faux wood laminate? Tom
Someday, it'll all be over....

"Ron" wrote in message
10.205...
As the title suggests, SHE is going to allow me to make our new kitchen
tops.

Any preferences to wood type?


Ron

I recently built counter tops for Mintlake Lodge. After much research, I
chose 12" porcelain tile with Laticrete epoxy grout. The counters are
wonderful, and even though I like wood as much as anybody, I just can't
imagine why you use it for kitchen countertops. Durability and maintenance
issues are HUGE drawbacks. Porcelain with epoxy grout never needs sealing
and you can put anything right off the stove or out of the oven anywhere on
your counter. Porcelain is nearly impossible to scratch, and in the event
you drop a pressure cooker from the top shelf and damage the surface,
chipped tiles can be removed and replaced for a 100% cosmetic and funtional
repair. Color choices for tile / grout combinations are nearly infinite,
and asthetics can be enhanced by adding borders and angles to your grout
lines. Also, you can't cut yourself (short of damaging a finger nail) on a
masonry wet saw.

I get my wood for free, but I will spend $4 or $5 a square foot to do
procelain counters again and again on future projects.

Larry Church
Mintlake Lodge

Ron wrote:

As the title suggests, SHE is going to allow me to make our new kitchen
tops.

Any preferences to wood type?

If you gotta go with wood go with maple--it's reasonably hard and maple sap
is not only non-toxic but nutritious. There are coatings intended for
bartops that let you use just about any wood, however they scratch and if
they do somehow get a through crack they can leak which makes a stain
that's going to be a bear to get out--doesn't happen often but I noticed
the other day that it had happened at one of the tables at a local
restaurant that used that technique so it's not impossible.

Best bet though would be one of the plastics, either laminate or solid
surface--they're relatively low maintenance while not being hard on
dishes--stainless or tile or stone are worse on dishes. Some granite tile
around the stove would be good as a safe place for a hot pan to land.


Ron

--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

On 27 Apr 2004 15:55:27 GMT, Ron
wrote:

As the title suggests, SHE is going to allow me to make our new kitchen
tops.

Any preferences to wood type?


Ron


the classic wood is hard maple.

In article 05, Ron
wrote:

For overall utility it is hard to beat oak. For butcher blocks,
sycamore is the preferred wood. As others have said, for normal kitchen
counters there are materials that are more functional than wood. If I
were to install new counters now I would probably turn to granite.

Dick


As the title suggests, SHE is going to allow me to make our new kitchen
tops.

Any preferences to wood type?


Ron

wrote in message
...
On 27 Apr 2004 15:55:27 GMT, Ron
wrote:

As the title suggests, SHE is going to allow me to make our new kitchen
tops.

Any preferences to wood type?


Ron


the classic wood is hard maple.

and its one of the woods the fda approves for use due to its anti bacterial
properties.

randy

On 27 Apr 2004 15:55:27 GMT, Ron wrote:

As the title suggests, SHE is going to allow me to make our new kitchen
tops.

Any preferences to wood type?


Ron


In my home I have hardwood "butcher block" counters made from madrone. We
love the natural dark reddish color and they have held up great under
abuse. I ordered these counters through an environmental home center in
Seattle. You may also want to check out the OS Hardwax Oil as a finish
for your counters.

http://www.environmentalhomecenter.c...NDURA_HARDWOOD

Usual disclaimer: I have no affiliation with these companies, I am just a
satisfied customer.

Neil

How about the best of both worlds... tile edged in a hardwood. In another
post, Larry (from Mintlake Lodge) pointed out the advantages of using the
tiles and I agree. I've done my own kitchen island and a 7' counter using
6" tiles edged with stained oak and they look as good today as they did when
I installed them over 10 years ago.

There are certainly other man-made materials you can use and an all wood top
looks nice - for awhile. Without an epoxy coating, it will most likely be a
very high maintenance countertop that you'll soon be replacing. Think about
it - when's the last time you saw a wood countertop being advertised?

Bob S.


"Ron" wrote in message
10.205...
As the title suggests, SHE is going to allow me to make our new kitchen
tops.

Any preferences to wood type?


Ron

Larry Church wrote:


I recently built counter tops for Mintlake Lodge. After much research, I
chose 12" porcelain tile with Laticrete epoxy grout. The counters are
wMintlake Lodge

Larry,
Do you have pictures or a URL to see that composition

kees

Granite..... wood.



"Ron" wrote in message
10.205...
As the title suggests, SHE is going to allow me to make our new kitchen
tops.

Any preferences to wood type?


Ron

Nobody that does serious cooking ever wants tile countertops. They are
difficult to clean, you cannot use a tenderizer on them, slippery,
usually not level, and generally the grout will develop leaks and mold,
a pain in the rear.

Just an opinion, but one backed by the last six years of cooking in a
kitchen with tile.

JJ
Cheap teak shipped to your door

Larry Church wrote:

"Ron" wrote in message
10.205...
As the title suggests, SHE is going to allow me to make our new kitchen
tops.

Any preferences to wood type?


Ron

I recently built counter tops for Mintlake Lodge. After much research, I
chose 12" porcelain tile with Laticrete epoxy grout. The counters are
wonderful, and even though I like wood as much as anybody, I just can't
imagine why you use it for kitchen countertops. Durability and maintenance
issues are HUGE drawbacks. Porcelain with epoxy grout never needs sealing
and you can put anything right off the stove or out of the oven anywhere on
your counter. Porcelain is nearly impossible to scratch, and in the event
you drop a pressure cooker from the top shelf and damage the surface,
chipped tiles can be removed and replaced for a 100% cosmetic and funtional
repair. Color choices for tile / grout combinations are nearly infinite,
and asthetics can be enhanced by adding borders and angles to your grout
lines. Also, you can't cut yourself (short of damaging a finger nail) on a
masonry wet saw.

I get my wood for free, but I will spend $4 or $5 a square foot to do
procelain counters again and again on future projects.

Larry Church
Mintlake Lodge

"Jeremy" wrote ...
Nobody that does serious cooking ever wants tile countertops.

Agreed. When we added a new kitchen to our house, and
had to choose what to put on our custom cherry cabinets,
we looked at all the options, and it was essentially a tie
between granite and Corian. We went with Corian.
No regrets.
--
Dennis M. O'Connor

Jeremy wrote:
Nobody that does serious cooking ever wants tile countertops. They are
difficult to clean, you cannot use a tenderizer on them, slippery,
usually not level, and generally the grout will develop leaks and mold,
a pain in the rear.



I agree, but why have only one surface?

Here from the beginning of the counter, past the sink and through the corner and
~ 1.5 feet of that leg gets tile, then there's a 2'x 3' cutting board. The rest
of the wall will be a wood work bench to store the cast iron collection with a
'raw' top to set hot pans on. Then there's going to be an island with a heavy
wood top that's urethaned.

Four surfaces, one for each occasion.





--

Mark

N.E. Ohio


Never argue with a fool, a bystander can't tell you apart. (S. Clemens, A.K.A.
Mark Twain)

When in doubt hit the throttle. It may not help but it sure ends the suspense.
(Gaz, r.moto)

Granite, man.
Someday, it'll all be over....

Thanks for all the replies so far.

It's gotta be wood as the worktops will complement a Belfast sink.

Anything else just wont do for the wife. It will be more decorative than
functional.

In the woods defense it wont be getting a lot of abuse as my wife just
doesn't do "cooking" in the biblical sense. It's qiuck and easy in our
house.



Me personally.........I'd go for granite, but as SHE wears the trousers
it's gonna be wood....Maple I think, due to the afore mentioned anti-
bacterial properties.


Ron

I recently upgraded my kitchen countertop after many hours of research
and questions. The best overall countertop is Silestone (goes by many
other names)which is engineered stone. It Looks and feels like Granite
but is not pourous to liquids like granite and doesn't need occasianal
sealing like granite. Silestone is hot cold resistant and scratch
resistant (uses quartz as engineered material) but is most expensive.
Next is Granite is hard and hot cold resistant and somewhat scratch
resistant but pourous and needs sealing occassionally. Third best is
Corian looks great but scratches easily and not temperature resistant.
I have had bad experience with Corian countertops aside from
scratching it cracked in couple places so not an option for the wife.
The least expensive is Formica or other similar laminates. I chose
granite for my countertop but whished I had spent the extra money for
the Silstone. Hope this was informative. Good Luck

Ron wrote in message . 110.205...
As the title suggests, SHE is going to allow me to make our new kitchen
tops.

Any preferences to wood type?


Ron

Ron notes:
It's gotta be wood as the worktops will complement a Belfast sink.

Belfast sink? Whazzat?

I've seen countertops of every wood imaginable, from SYP to maple and walnut
and cherry. If you're not going to abuse it (do NOT bet on this), almost any
wood does just fine, as long as you plan on refinishing it every so
often--periods between refinishes depend on use and the finish.

Pick your color. Pick your wood, the harder the better, and go. Avoid rosewoods
because of allergens (and fiscal responsibility). Ebony is avoidable for
financial reasons.


Charlie Self
"Wars spring from unseen and generally insignificant causes, the first outbreak
being often but an explosion of anger." Thucydides

"Dennis M. O'Connor" wrote in message
...
"Jeremy" wrote ...
Nobody that does serious cooking ever wants tile countertops.

Agreed. When we added a new kitchen to our house, and
had to choose what to put on our custom cherry cabinets,
we looked at all the options, and it was essentially a tie
between granite and Corian. We went with Corian.
No regrets.

I'm just curious, why corian over granite? In my neighborhood, the price was
about the same and I went w/ granite.

Charlie Self wrote:
Ron notes:

It's gotta be wood as the worktops will complement a Belfast sink.


Belfast sink? Whazzat?




Think water trough.


Small ones:
http://search.kelkoo.co.uk/b/a/ss_Belfast_sink.html

Big ones:
http://www.victorianplumbing.co.uk/m...ic-15008-1.stm


I would be concerned with rotting of the support structure/ cabinet. Even in a
trophy kitchen.

Seems this sink would be a major factor in choice of materials.


--

Mark

N.E. Ohio


Never argue with a fool, a bystander can't tell you apart. (S. Clemens, A.K.A.
Mark Twain)

When in doubt hit the throttle. It may not help but it sure ends the suspense.
(Gaz, r.moto)

otforme (Charlie Self) wrote in
:

Belfast sink? Whazzat?


Charlie,

Not sure what they would be called elsewhere, but here in the U.K. a
'Belfast' sink is primarily a deep white porcelain rectangle sink, as seen
in old Irish kitchens......with the wooden counter tops actually
overhanging the top of the sink, and not the sinks set in the countertops.

Ron

I went with maple, covered with poly urethane. (one home built, one bought from
Grainger) My countertop is not a cutting board. A year later they still look
great.
I figure when they finally do get dinged up too bad I can sand them down and
recoat them.

"Stephen M" wrote ...
"Dennis M. O'Connor" wrote in ...
"Jeremy" wrote ...
Nobody that does serious cooking ever wants tile countertops.

Agreed. When we added a new kitchen to our house, and
had to choose what to put on our custom cherry cabinets,
we looked at all the options, and it was essentially a tie
between granite and Corian. We went with Corian.
No regrets.

I'm just curious, why corian over granite? In my neighborhood, the price was
about the same and I went w/ granite.

There was some concern over sealing granite, and granite
is harder than Corian, so more things might break on it.
Granite seemed more heat resistant, but then, you can pour
boiling water on Corian to sterilize it, and for us that's good enough.
But ultimately, it came down to appearance. We found a color
of Corian that gave us the look we wanted, and nothing
comparable was available in granite (or engineered stone).
--
Dennis M. O'Connor

Ron responds:

Not sure what they would be called elsewhere, but here in the U.K. a
'Belfast' sink is primarily a deep white porcelain rectangle sink, as seen
in old Irish kitchens......with the wooden counter tops actually
overhanging the top of the sink, and not the sinks set in the countertops.

Yeah. Someone else posted a link. I am pretty sure I've seen those at Kohler's
web site in the US. A quick check shows I was right...apron sinks. Some great
designs there, too.

I'm going to be doing my kitchen in a couple years, so maybe...

Charlie Self
"For NASA, space is still a high priority." Dan Quayle

I will throw my 2 cents, since nobody else has looked at it from this angle.

Has anyone give any thought to resale value? Or it might convince the
misses..
I am pretty sure that wood tops would be a show stopper for most buyers.

Roger


"Ron" wrote in message
10.205...
As the title suggests, SHE is going to allow me to make our new kitchen
tops.

Any preferences to wood type?


Ron

"Roger L" wrote in message
...
I will throw my 2 cents, since nobody else has looked at it from this
angle.

Has anyone give any thought to resale value? Or it might convince the
misses..
I am pretty sure that wood tops would be a show stopper for most buyers.

Roger

I'm not so sure. The "in thing" right now is granite, followed by Corian.
Wood is ancient and may be considered dated. I've seen a couple of "How To"
shows on TV where they got rid of those old butcher block type counters.
Ed

Ed Pawlowski responds:

misses..
I am pretty sure that wood tops would be a show stopper for most buyers.

Roger

I'm not so sure. The "in thing" right now is granite, followed by Corian.
Wood is ancient and may be considered dated. I've seen a couple of "How To"
shows on TV where they got rid of those old butcher block type counters.

Ah. If the TV designers think something is cool, I do believe I'd far rather go
in the other direction. If I can locate enough hard maple (rough and green) my
kitchen remodel will have a feature I hadn't intended.

Charlie Self
"For NASA, space is still a high priority." Dan Quayle

Ron writes:

Thanks for all the replies so far.

It's gotta be wood as the worktops will complement a Belfast sink.
...
In the woods defense it wont be getting a lot of abuse as my wife just
doesn't do "cooking" in the biblical sense. It's quick and easy in our
house.

Me personally.........I'd go for granite, but as SHE wears the trousers
it's gonna be wood....Maple I think, due to the afore mentioned anti-
bacterial properties.

We have wood counters in our pantry, I think maple though they could
be birch, 5/4 or 6/4. They've been there for almost 100 years. Never
varnished, and not oiled the last 30 years. They've been used
occasionally as a cutting board too, and they still look pretty good.

We have a Belfast sink too, though I never knew it until now :-) but
it has a stone counter around it. That's been there 100 years too,
and it looks pretty good, but not as good as the wood (it tends to
pick up stains). Wood would probably have rotted in that location.

Regards,
Allen

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:


I'm not so sure. The "in thing" right now is granite, followed by Corian.
Wood is ancient and may be considered dated. I've seen a couple of "How To"
shows on TV where they got rid of those old butcher block type counters.
Ed





Then by all means I should jump in line and be a sheep.

I think you'll find many people with trophy kitchens (those things on TV) don't
actually cook in them. Sort of like someone who builds a shop and fills it with
pretty equipment, then beats bird houses together with 12 penny sinkers.



Form follows function in this home. Wife and I wouldn't have it any other way.



--
--

Mark

N.E. Ohio


Never argue with a fool, a bystander can't tell you apart. (S. Clemens, A.K.A.
Mark Twain)

When in doubt hit the throttle. It may not help but it sure ends the suspense.
(Gaz, r.moto)

"Mark" wrote ...
Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
I'm not so sure. The "in thing" right now is granite, followed by Corian.
[...]
Then by all means I should jump in line and be a sheep.

No, no, always do the OPPOSITE of what they do !
Sheesh. This "the way they do it on those shows must be wrong"
attitude is just as moronic as the "as seen on TV" one.

I think you'll find many people with trophy kitchens (those things on TV) don't
actually cook in them.

However, Corian(R) is still a fantastic surface for countertops.
And no surprise there, since it was designed to be exactly that.

As to kitchen design, the biggest flaws I've seen in "trophy kitchens"
is too big a primary work area (sink-cooktop-fridge-oven) and
claustrophobic range hood designs.

And any kitchen can be improved by adding anti-fatigue mats (as can any shop).
--
Dennis M. O'Connor

Dennis O'Connor writes:

I think you'll find many people with trophy kitchens (those things on TV)
don't
actually cook in them.

However, Corian(R) is still a fantastic surface for countertops.
And no surprise there, since it was designed to be exactly that.

I put in a Corian lavatory in our bathroom a few years ago. My wife hated it
from day one. I had a tub surround ready to go in, but got rid of it. She
doesn't like the matte finish, primarily.

I've got a granite sharpening base here, and cannot imagine using that thing,
as finely ground as it is, for a kitchen surface.

As you go down the list of materials for countertops, you find faults. Ceramic
tile breaks too easily to be used, IMO. Copper is a PITA to keep polished.
Formica and those similar to it scorch too easily, delaminate under some
conditions, etc. It keeps on. Possibly the biggest problem: none can be
refinished. They all have to be replaced when they're messed up, though some
(granite, concrete, Corian and other solid surface resin types) area going to
last a long, long time (which is a pretty good reason for not going with trendy
colors and shapes--you'll be heartily sick of the dramatic red or black or...in
a decade or two).

Wood? Wood works beautifully. Tenderizing? No problem. Cutting? Not much of a
problem for the first 40 years. It does scorch, possibly more easily than the
laminates but lo. And behold! What's that in his hand? A scraper? Couple hours
later, wood is looking great again. The laminate? In the garbage and replace
the whole works.

Charlie Self
"For NASA, space is still a high priority." Dan Quayle

Charlie Self wrote:

Dennis O'Connor writes:

I think you'll find many people with trophy kitchens (those things on
TV)
don't
actually cook in them.

However, Corian(R) is still a fantastic surface for countertops.
And no surprise there, since it was designed to be exactly that.

I put in a Corian lavatory in our bathroom a few years ago. My wife hated
it from day one. I had a tub surround ready to go in, but got rid of it.
She doesn't like the matte finish, primarily.

I've got a granite sharpening base here, and cannot imagine using that
thing, as finely ground as it is, for a kitchen surface.

As you go down the list of materials for countertops, you find faults.
Ceramic tile breaks too easily to be used, IMO. Copper is a PITA to keep
polished. Formica and those similar to it scorch too easily, delaminate
under some conditions, etc. It keeps on. Possibly the biggest problem:
none can be refinished. They all have to be replaced when they're messed
up, though some (granite, concrete, Corian and other solid surface resin
types) area going to last a long, long time (which is a pretty good reason
for not going with trendy colors and shapes--you'll be heartily sick of
the dramatic red or black or...in a decade or two).

Wood? Wood works beautifully. Tenderizing? No problem. Cutting? Not much
of a problem for the first 40 years. It does scorch, possibly more easily
than the laminates but lo. And behold! What's that in his hand? A scraper?
Couple hours later, wood is looking great again. The laminate? In the
garbage and replace the whole works.

The whole point of the solid surface materials such as Corian is that they
_can_ be refinished--even through-holes can be repaired. Granite can also
be refinished but to a lesser extent. Not something that I suspect the
average home handyman is going to want to take on, but it _is_ doable.


Charlie Self
"For NASA, space is still a high priority." Dan Quayle

--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

JClarke responds:

The whole point of the solid surface materials such as Corian is that they
_can_ be refinished--even through-holes can be repaired. Granite can also
be refinished but to a lesser extent. Not something that I suspect the
average home handyman is going to want to take on, but it _is_ doable.

Corian is sandable, yeah. Didja ever see the mess it makes? Respirator time,
plus closing off the entire area (which is a good idea with sanding wood in a
house, too). That takes out some stains, scratches, minor cuts. Anything else
is a specialist's job, IMO. Grinding granite is also a specialist's job, one I
would care to attempt.

As I said, wood can be scraped and recoated with very little fuss, not much
mess, and quickly.

Do-able and practical are 2 very different things in those contexts. Most of us
could make really major repairs to a solid wood countertop without any extra
tools or prep or safety gear. I'd hestitate to make much more than the smallest
repairs to Corian and would totally forgo messing with solid rock.

Charlie Self
"I am confident that the Republican Party will pick a nominee that will beat
Bill Clinton." Dan Quayle

otforme (Charlie Self) wrote in message ...

I like the idea of wood countertops and am thinking that beech
would be a good choice.


Charlie Self
"For NASA, space is still a high priority." Dan Quayle

Dunno if he really said that or not but NASA is the National
Aeronatics AND Space Administration--the very name kinda
implies that space is an afterthought and it is certainly
possible for NASA to put a higher priority on Aeronautics
than on space.

Of course manned space flight remains the high budget item
because it is the most expensive thing that NASA does even
when the remaining shuttles are grounded.

--

FF

Fredfighter responds:

I like the idea of wood countertops and am thinking that beech
would be a good choice.


Hadn't thought of that, but it sounds good. Wonder if red gum would work out?


Charlie Self
"For NASA, space is still a high priority." Dan Quayle

Dunno if he really said that or not but NASA is the National
Aeronatics AND Space Administration--the very name kinda
implies that space is an afterthought and it is certainly
possible for NASA to put a higher priority on Aeronautics
than on space.

Well, it may have been an afterthought for Quayle, but it was the primary
reason NASA was formed. I think it ended up alphabetical...or they were afraid
of the acronym: NAAS.

Charlie Self
"I am confident that the Republican Party will pick a nominee that will beat
Bill Clinton." Dan Quayle

On Thu, 29 Apr 2004 15:58:16 +0000, Charlie Self wrote:


Well, it may have been an afterthought for Quayle, but it was the primary
reason NASA was formed. I think it ended up alphabetical...or they were
afraid of the acronym: NAAS.

NACA was formed in 1915 and dealt primarily with aeronautics until 1958
when it's name was changed to NASA when sputnik forced the US into the
astronautics game. Aeronautics is still an important part of NASA's
charter.

http://history.nasa.gov/centtimeline/index.html

-Doug

--
"A government that robs Peter to pay Paul can always
depend on the support of Paul." - George Bernard Shaw

"Charlie Self" wrote ...
Possibly the biggest problem: none can be
refinished. They all have to be replaced when they're messed up, though some
(granite, concrete, Corian and other solid surface resin types) area going to
last a long, long time

Corian(R) can be refinished. It's the same material all the way through,
so you can sand it down and then repolish it to whatever sheen
you happen to prefer. many of the solid surface materials are like that.
Laminates, of course, not so much ...

Wood? Wood works beautifully. Tenderizing? No problem. Cutting? Not much of a
problem for the first 40 years.

Don't cut on Corian, if your knives matter to you.
That's what cutting boards are for anyway (NOT
for dancing on, no matter what Bobby Flay thinks !).
Tenderizing on Corian doesn't seem to be a problem.

And of course, Corian has seamless sink integration.

It does scorch, possibly more easily than the
laminates but lo. And behold! What's that in his hand? A scraper? Couple hours
later, wood is looking great again. The laminate? In the garbage and replace
the whole works.

But with the Corian, it's just sander time. You can patch it too.
--
Dennis M. O'Connor