I want to get some 4 x 12 beams for a pergola. I have four, IIRC, down in
Vegas, about 12 to 16 feet long, square on the ends. They are about ten to
twenty years old, and straight as day one.

Are they pine? Fir? What was used for external wood back then? If I was
to go buy some stuff today, what would I ask for? Really, I think I'll put
an ad on Craigslist for old wood, and just use stuff that is old that has
kept straight. Guides for identifying wood would be helpful.

It seems that this old wood is fairly dense (heavy). Just going to band saw
it on the ends, or carve it. I live in a dry climate with little rain, and
reasonably cold in the winter.

Steve

visit my blog at http://cabgbypasssurgery.com

I usually watch for (and stores included) if it is outside stored wood,
don't use it inside. If it is inside stored wood then don't use it outside.

One of my uncles retired, as an old farmer, and finally got around to using
up some old wood in his drivin' shed, possibly over a hundred years old. He
was always a good work worker and produced some very nice projects, not
having much toime, being a busy farmer.

He was ripping an old piece of ash (can't remember exactlly how big but a
large old barn beam) he wanted to use in a project. When he got half way
down the length, the piece exploded end to end and he thought he was dead.
When he pulled himeslf to gether again, it seems one piece has a twist in it
almost 360 degrees from end to end and had been wating for all those years
to "let loose" from the rest of the beam.

All those years of drying didn't settle this piece of wood down.


"Steve B" wrote in message
...
I want to get some 4 x 12 beams for a pergola. I have four, IIRC, down in
Vegas, about 12 to 16 feet long, square on the ends. They are about ten to
twenty years old, and straight as day one.

Are they pine? Fir? What was used for external wood back then? If I was
to go buy some stuff today, what would I ask for? Really, I think I'll put
an ad on Craigslist for old wood, and just use stuff that is old that has
kept straight. Guides for identifying wood would be helpful.

It seems that this old wood is fairly dense (heavy). Just going to band saw
it on the ends, or carve it. I live in a dry climate with little rain, and
reasonably cold in the winter.

Steve

visit my blog at http://cabgbypasssurgery.com

Steve B wrote:
I want to get some 4 x 12 beams for a pergola. I have four, IIRC, down in
Vegas, about 12 to 16 feet long, square on the ends. They are about ten to
twenty years old, and straight as day one.

Are they pine? Fir? What was used for external wood back then? If I was
to go buy some stuff today, what would I ask for? ...

If the reference to Vegas means location rather than the proposed payout
plan, then more than likely they're either Doug fir or perhaps redwood
(altho you later went on to say they're fairly hard so that would tend
to negate the latter). My vote in the western states would be most
likely fir.

As for what to ask for today, a key to your IRA would be first followed
by visit to the local pole barn erector or timber framer depending on
how deep the well is...

--

Redwood is listed as a hardwood.
It is dense not porous.

I had 7 acres of coastal redwoods at one time and with scrap had by bandsaw
cut some heavy wood. 3x 4X typical. Built a wood rack that holds a
cord of wood - left it with the house. Built a nice potting bench out of
heavy wood and brought it with us. Now in Texas.

Martin

Martin H. Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
"Our Republic and the Press will Rise or Fall Together": Joseph Pulitzer
TSRA: Endowed; NRA LOH & Patron Member, Golden Eagle, Patriot's Medal.
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Originator & Charter Founder
IHMSA and NRA Metallic Silhouette maker & member. http://lufkinced.com/

On 8/8/2010 10:49 AM, dpb wrote:
Steve B wrote:
I want to get some 4 x 12 beams for a pergola. I have four, IIRC, down in
Vegas, about 12 to 16 feet long, square on the ends. They are about ten to
twenty years old, and straight as day one.

Are they pine? Fir? What was used for external wood back then? If I was
to go buy some stuff today, what would I ask for? ...

If the reference to Vegas means location rather than the proposed payout plan,
then more than likely they're either Doug fir or perhaps redwood (altho you
later went on to say they're fairly hard so that would tend to negate the
latter). My vote in the western states would be most likely fir.

As for what to ask for today, a key to your IRA would be first followed by visit
to the local pole barn erector or timber framer depending on how deep the well
is...

--

Martin H. Eastburn wrote:
Redwood is listed as a hardwood.
It is dense not porous.
....

"softwood" vis a vis "hardwood" is a generic differentiation of non- vs
deciduous, not a description of the wood itself. It is generally true
that hardwoods are, in fact, harder than softwoods on average but there
are exceptions.

I made no statement about density; nor did I infer it was particularly
an open-grained wood.

--

Yes that's true. Balsa wood is considered a hard wood.
While certainly not hard, for it's weight it is very strong.
It used to be used between sheets of aluminum for bulkheads in planes.
Don't know if it is still being used for that.

On 8/9/2010 2:21 AM, dpb wrote:
Martin H. Eastburn wrote:
Redwood is listed as a hardwood.
It is dense not porous.
...

"softwood" vis a vis "hardwood" is a generic differentiation of non- vs
deciduous, not a description of the wood itself. It is generally true
that hardwoods are, in fact, harder than softwoods on average but there
are exceptions.

I made no statement about density; nor did I infer it was particularly
an open-grained wood.

--

On 8/8/2010 9:16 PM, Martin H. Eastburn wrote:
Redwood is listed as a hardwood.

Listed by who? By the standard definition, redwood, being an evergreen
conifer, is most assuredly a softwood. By hardness comparison it is
less hard than Douglas Fir and most pines.

Note that balsa is a hardwood--while on average across all species
hardwoods are harder than softwoods, one cannot simply conclude that
because something is a hardwood it is harder than any given softwood,
nor can one conclude because one piece of wood is harder than another
that one is a hardwood and the other a softwood.

For future reference, if it's a gymnosperm it's a softwood, if it's an
angiosperm it's a hardwood. As to how you tell them apart, in some
cases it takes an expert but as a rule of thumb if it has needles and
cones it's a gymnosperm.

It is dense not porous.


I had 7 acres of coastal redwoods at one time and with scrap had by bandsaw
cut some heavy wood. 3x 4X typical. Built a wood rack that holds a
cord of wood - left it with the house. Built a nice potting bench out of
heavy wood and brought it with us. Now in Texas.

Martin

Martin H. Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
"Our Republic and the Press will Rise or Fall Together": Joseph Pulitzer
TSRA: Endowed; NRA LOH & Patron Member, Golden Eagle, Patriot's Medal.
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Originator & Charter Founder
IHMSA and NRA Metallic Silhouette maker & member. http://lufkinced.com/

On 8/8/2010 10:49 AM, dpb wrote:
Steve B wrote:
I want to get some 4 x 12 beams for a pergola. I have four, IIRC,
down in
Vegas, about 12 to 16 feet long, square on the ends. They are about
ten to
twenty years old, and straight as day one.

Are they pine? Fir? What was used for external wood back then? If I was
to go buy some stuff today, what would I ask for? ...

If the reference to Vegas means location rather than the proposed
payout plan,
then more than likely they're either Doug fir or perhaps redwood
(altho you
later went on to say they're fairly hard so that would tend to negate the
latter). My vote in the western states would be most likely fir.

As for what to ask for today, a key to your IRA would be first
followed by visit
to the local pole barn erector or timber framer depending on how deep
the well
is...

--

Well it doesn't have needles. The leaflets are like needles but are
different. One could broadly call it as that, but a Ginkgo isn't an Oak.
Has small cones. And that is a good thing. They fall all of the time.

It is closer to Cedars of the middle East than pine. It once ruled the west
from the Mississippi to the Pacific - the Petrified Forest is of species

And by your definitions it is in the eye of the beholder - They build bridges
and multi-story buildings. Oh yea - pencils also like cedar.

The person I got it from was a certified arborist working in the rain forest.
One has to have professional help when cutting more than a few limbs.
One of these 150 foot tall babies easily crushes a car to the ground or a house.


Here are some specs :
Numerical Data
Item Green Dry English

Bending Strength 6845 9836 psi
Crushing Strength 412 686 psi
Density 25 lbs/ft3
Hardness 402 lbs
Impact Strength 21 17 inches
Maximum Crushing Strength 3984 6180 psi
Shearing Strength 977 psi
Stiffness 1109 1281 1000 psi
Toughness 95 inch-lbs
Work to Maximum Load 6 7 inch-lbs/in3
Specific Gravity 0.37 0.38
Weight 26 21 lbs/ft3
Radial Shrinkage 2 %
Tangential Shrinkage 4 %
Volumetric Shrinkage 7 %


Martin

Martin H. Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
"Our Republic and the Press will Rise or Fall Together": Joseph Pulitzer
TSRA: Endowed; NRA LOH & Patron Member, Golden Eagle, Patriot's Medal.
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Originator & Charter Founder
IHMSA and NRA Metallic Silhouette maker & member. http://lufkinced.com/

On 8/9/2010 6:01 AM, J. Clarke wrote:
On 8/8/2010 9:16 PM, Martin H. Eastburn wrote:
Redwood is listed as a hardwood.

Listed by who? By the standard definition, redwood, being an evergreen conifer,
is most assuredly a softwood. By hardness comparison it is less hard than
Douglas Fir and most pines.

Note that balsa is a hardwood--while on average across all species hardwoods are
harder than softwoods, one cannot simply conclude that because something is a
hardwood it is harder than any given softwood, nor can one conclude because one
piece of wood is harder than another that one is a hardwood and the other a
softwood.

For future reference, if it's a gymnosperm it's a softwood, if it's an
angiosperm it's a hardwood. As to how you tell them apart, in some cases it
takes an expert but as a rule of thumb if it has needles and cones it's a
gymnosperm.

It is dense not porous.


I had 7 acres of coastal redwoods at one time and with scrap had by bandsaw
cut some heavy wood. 3x 4X typical. Built a wood rack that holds a
cord of wood - left it with the house. Built a nice potting bench out of
heavy wood and brought it with us. Now in Texas.

Martin

Martin H. Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
"Our Republic and the Press will Rise or Fall Together": Joseph Pulitzer
TSRA: Endowed; NRA LOH & Patron Member, Golden Eagle, Patriot's Medal.
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Originator & Charter Founder
IHMSA and NRA Metallic Silhouette maker & member. http://lufkinced.com/

On 8/8/2010 10:49 AM, dpb wrote:
Steve B wrote:
I want to get some 4 x 12 beams for a pergola. I have four, IIRC,
down in
Vegas, about 12 to 16 feet long, square on the ends. They are about
ten to
twenty years old, and straight as day one.

Are they pine? Fir? What was used for external wood back then? If I was
to go buy some stuff today, what would I ask for? ...

If the reference to Vegas means location rather than the proposed
payout plan,
then more than likely they're either Doug fir or perhaps redwood
(altho you
later went on to say they're fairly hard so that would tend to negate the
latter). My vote in the western states would be most likely fir.

As for what to ask for today, a key to your IRA would be first
followed by visit
to the local pole barn erector or timber framer depending on how deep
the well
is...

--

Martin H. Eastburn wrote:
....

And by your definitions it is in the eye of the beholder - They build
bridges and multi-story buildings. Oh yea - pencils also like cedar.

....

Well, there's a pretty significant beholder involved --

For confirmation, you could look at the NIST-issued
_American_Softwood_Lunber_Standard_ at the following url--

http://ts.nist.gov/standards/conformity/upload/ps20-05.pdf

p.42 includes the definition of softwood for commercial purposes as

"softwood--one of the group of trees which have
needle-like or scale-like leaves. The term has
no specific reference to the softness of the
wood."

And, to complete the heartburn for the ignominy suffered by the
magnificent redwoods, on p. 33 in

APPENDIX A COMMERCIAL NAMES OF THE PRINCIPAL SOFTWOOD SPECIES
....
Commercial Official Common Species or Species

Group Names Tree Names Botanical Names
....
REDWOOD:
Redwood redwood Sequoia sempervirens

....

The point is as noted before, in wood technology, construction,
woodworking, etc., etc., etc., "softwoods" and "hardwoods" are generic
labels for broad classifications that sorta' follow taxonomic rules but
it is _not_ the same by any stretch nor intended to be. It's a
convenience for commercial purposes.

--

On 8/8/2010 9:41 AM, Steve B wrote:
I want to get some 4 x 12 beams for a pergola. I have four, IIRC, down in
Vegas, about 12 to 16 feet long, square on the ends. They are about ten to
twenty years old, and straight as day one.

Are they pine? Fir? What was used for external wood back then? If I was
to go buy some stuff today, what would I ask for? Really, I think I'll put
an ad on Craigslist for old wood, and just use stuff that is old that has
kept straight. Guides for identifying wood would be helpful.

It seems that this old wood is fairly dense (heavy). Just going to band saw
it on the ends, or carve it. I live in a dry climate with little rain, and
reasonably cold in the winter.

Steve

visit my blog at http://cabgbypasssurgery.com

I built a pergola a few years ago and used Western Red Cedar that I bought from
the local Ace Hardware lumber yard (don't know how many of _those_ are left in
the world...). Used 6x6 vertical posts, 2x12 beams (let-in to 2x10 in some
places for decoration), 2x8 rafters on 24" centers over the beams, then topped
it off with 2x4 longitudinals on 12" centers for blocking the sun. All
horizontals overhang their supporting sections and have nice "ogee" patterns
cut into the ends. Finished it with a liberal application of Behr premium
25-year weatherproofing wood "stain" (it's really paint, not stain), and there
are no signs of warping, splitting, rotting, or deterioration anywhere. I'll
report back in 5 years. :-)

--
See Nad. See Nad go. Go Nad!
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/

On Aug 8, 12:42*pm, Steve Turner
wrote:

I built a pergola a few years ago and used Western Red Cedar that I bought from
the local Ace Hardware lumber yard (don't know how many of _those_ are left in
the world...). *Used 6x6 vertical posts, 2x12 beams (let-in to 2x10 in some
places for decoration), 2x8 rafters on 24" centers over the beams, then topped
it off with 2x4 longitudinals on 12" centers for blocking the sun. *All
horizontals overhang their supporting sections and have nice "ogee" patterns
cut into the ends. *Finished it with a liberal application of Behr premium
25-year weatherproofing wood "stain" (it's really paint, not stain), and there
are no signs of warping, splitting, rotting, or deterioration anywhere. *I'll
report back in 5 years. *:-)

Post a picture - I'd like to see it.

R

"Steve Turner" wrote in message
...
On 8/8/2010 9:41 AM, Steve B wrote:
I want to get some 4 x 12 beams for a pergola. I have four, IIRC, down
in
Vegas, about 12 to 16 feet long, square on the ends. They are about ten
to
twenty years old, and straight as day one.

Are they pine? Fir? What was used for external wood back then? If I
was
to go buy some stuff today, what would I ask for? Really, I think I'll
put
an ad on Craigslist for old wood, and just use stuff that is old that has
kept straight. Guides for identifying wood would be helpful.

It seems that this old wood is fairly dense (heavy). Just going to band
saw
it on the ends, or carve it. I live in a dry climate with little rain,
and
reasonably cold in the winter.

Steve

visit my blog at http://cabgbypasssurgery.com

I built a pergola a few years ago and used Western Red Cedar that I bought
from the local Ace Hardware lumber yard (don't know how many of _those_
are left in the world...). Used 6x6 vertical posts, 2x12 beams (let-in to
2x10 in some places for decoration), 2x8 rafters on 24" centers over the
beams, then topped it off with 2x4 longitudinals on 12" centers for
blocking the sun. All horizontals overhang their supporting sections and
have nice "ogee" patterns cut into the ends. Finished it with a liberal
application of Behr premium 25-year weatherproofing wood "stain" (it's
really paint, not stain), and there are no signs of warping, splitting,
rotting, or deterioration anywhere. I'll report back in 5 years. :-)

--
See Nad. See Nad go. Go Nad!
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/

Sounds sturdy. Actually, I have come up with an idea suggested in another
newsgroup, and it involves stuff I have in stock.

Telephone poles, I have about a dozen. Corrugated CorTen steel panels, 7' x
6'. HEAVY. I am thinking of making the frame out of telephone poles, then
decking the top with the CorTen panels. 6 or 8" galvanized lags to hold
them on. Not a lot of fancy woodwork, but some to saddle the poles, and get
the whole framework to lay right. Something close to log cabin
construction.

Steve

visit my blog at http://cabgbypasssurgery.com

On Sun, 8 Aug 2010 07:41:40 -0700, "Steve B"
wrote:

I want to get some 4 x 12 beams for a pergola. I have four, IIRC, down in
Vegas, about 12 to 16 feet long, square on the ends. They are about ten to
twenty years old, and straight as day one.

Are they pine? Fir? What was used for external wood back then? If I was
to go buy some stuff today, what would I ask for? Really, I think I'll put
an ad on Craigslist for old wood, and just use stuff that is old that has
kept straight. Guides for identifying wood would be helpful.

It seems that this old wood is fairly dense (heavy). Just going to band saw
it on the ends, or carve it. I live in a dry climate with little rain, and
reasonably cold in the winter.

Prolly doug fir.