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On 6/10/10 10:16 PM, Steve Turner wrote:
Yes, but lately (here in Texas at least) it's rather common to see signs next to a regular green light that say "Protected left on green". The first time I saw that I said "What the hell does THAT mean?!". I'll tell you what it means: "We've decided to program the lights at this intersection so that a regular green light REALLY means you have a green arrow, but we're too damn cheap to install a REAL green arrow". Since they've opened that stupid can of worms, they probably figure they'd better cover their asses by explicitly saying "Left turn yields on green" in case some litigious dumbass decides to assume "Protected left on green" for an unadorned regular green light... By the way, I saw a show about a European town that took down all traffic signs in their city and the number of accidents dropped like a rock. In Europe, it's much more common to have cars, trucks, bicycles and pedestrians in equal numbers, so they often have separate lanes and all kinds of signage showing right of way and all the rest. Apparently in one town, after the accident rate spiked, the mayor went nuts and started putting up signs everywhere, for every little thing. The accident rate tripled or some such ridiculous multiple. In came a new mayor (or someone) who took ALL the signs down. Every one. No stop signs, no speed limits, no yields, no traffic lights, nothing. It was like the old west with asphalt. Guess what happened? Well, I already told you. Not only did the accident rate plummet, but people drove slower than they did when there were speed limit signs. There were no accidents because people were forced to pay attention to one another. Cars looked for bike, bikes looked for pedestrians, etc, etc, etc. -- -MIKE- "Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life" --Elvin Jones (1927-2004) -- http://mikedrums.com ---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply |
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-MIKE- wrote in -
september.org: By the way, I saw a show about a European town that took down all traffic signs in their city and the number of accidents dropped like a rock. I've read about something similar. I wonder if accident rates start going back up after drivers and pedestrians get used to not having the signs. One theory suggested was that drivers in unfamiliar situations will drive more carefully, so what happens when the unusual becomes the norm? Puckdropper -- Never teach your apprentice everything you know. |
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On 6/10/10 10:58 PM, Puckdropper wrote:
wrote in - september.org: By the way, I saw a show about a European town that took down all traffic signs in their city and the number of accidents dropped like a rock. I've read about something similar. I wonder if accident rates start going back up after drivers and pedestrians get used to not having the signs. Yeah, I remember thinking the same thing when I was watching the show. One theory suggested was that drivers in unfamiliar situations will drive more carefully, Anyone who's driven behind a tourist can attest to that, right? so what happens when the unusual becomes the norm? Puckdropper I'm anxious to see. -- -MIKE- "Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life" --Elvin Jones (1927-2004) -- http://mikedrums.com ---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply |
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-MIKE- wrote:
On 6/10/10 10:58 PM, Puckdropper wrote: wrote in - september.org: By the way, I saw a show about a European town that took down all traffic signs in their city and the number of accidents dropped like a rock. I've read about something similar. I wonder if accident rates start going back up after drivers and pedestrians get used to not having the signs. Yeah, I remember thinking the same thing when I was watching the show. One theory suggested was that drivers in unfamiliar situations will drive more carefully, Anyone who's driven behind a tourist can attest to that, right? Thats not careful driving, thats being lost driving... so what happens when the unusual becomes the norm? I'm anxious to see. What happens as far as speed goes is 90% of the drivers drive at the speed they *feel* is safe. In my area, that is almost always about 10 mph faster than the posted limit. 5% will go the speed limit or less, and 5% will go more than what most consider safe. The speed limit signs are meaningless UNLESS it is a known speed trap, money making government scheme. Signs mean almost nothing to drivers familiar with the roads. There are two roads near me that the speed limit is a bit too high, and 90% of the drivers actually go under the speed limit, proof that the signs are mostly ignored. -- Jack What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving. http://jbstein.com |
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On 6/11/10 7:46 AM, Jack Stein wrote:
There are two roads near me that the speed limit is a bit too high, and 90% of the drivers actually go under the speed limit, proof that the signs are mostly ignored. Same, here. -- -MIKE- "Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life" --Elvin Jones (1927-2004) -- http://mikedrums.com ---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply |
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-MIKE- wrote:
: I would rather it said nothing. Why state the obvious... that's my point. : The norm is that a left turn yields to oncoming traffic. : The exception is having a green arrow that tell you things are : different, now. The other exception is that you're in Boston. -- Andy Barss |
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Dedicated 240VAC Circuits using 10GA is what I would suggest.
Not at all sure why you would run 120VAC outlets near the floor in a shop unless you have a specific tool in mind. Someone suggested a ceiling outlet. I have one every four feet or so running two independantly switched circuits - one for my fans and the other (using three and four-way switches) for the shop lighting. One oulet on the lights circuit could be extended to the location of your table or shelving where your battery charger (tv or radio) will sit. This allows you to connect the chargers (drill, wireless phone, etc) and shut them down when you leave the shop. The compressor might also be on a switched circuit to prevent it from leaking down and recharging at three AM. If you have a bench up against a wall (I saw none in your pdf), the idea of running outlets along the front edge is one I fully support and have implemented using power strips run under the table and up into the wall outlets. 120VAC outlets every 4 feet along the walls and six or eight inches above the highest work surface makes lots of sense and, again, I have implemented the approach in every shop I've built. For a little more cash, you can gang two duplex outlets at each location "just in case." I ran 8GA to the shop breaker box and breakers for each circuit. GFCI can be done at the breaker box, but is not needed in dry location and can be a pain if the GFCI pops at one end of the shop when you are using something at the other. If you do get one, look for those with an Indicator LED. You only want one for a circuit, the other outlets "hang" off it. |
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On 7/05/10 10:54 PM, Hoosierpopi wrote:
Dedicated 240VAC Circuits using 10GA is what I would suggest. Not at all sure why you would run 120VAC outlets near the floor in a shop unless you have a specific tool in mind. Someone suggested a ceiling outlet. I have one every four feet or so running two independantly switched circuits - one for my fans and the other (using three and four-way switches) for the shop lighting. One oulet on the lights circuit could be extended to the location of your table or shelving where your battery charger (tv or radio) will sit. This allows you to connect the chargers (drill, wireless phone, etc) and shut them down when you leave the shop. The compressor might also be on a switched circuit to prevent it from leaking down and recharging at three AM. If you have a bench up against a wall (I saw none in your pdf), the idea of running outlets along the front edge is one I fully support and have implemented using power strips run under the table and up into the wall outlets. 120VAC outlets every 4 feet along the walls and six or eight inches above the highest work surface makes lots of sense and, again, I have implemented the approach in every shop I've built. For a little more cash, you can gang two duplex outlets at each location "just in case." I ran 8GA to the shop breaker box and breakers for each circuit. GFCI can be done at the breaker box, but is not needed in dry location and can be a pain if the GFCI pops at one end of the shop when you are using something at the other. If you do get one, look for those with an Indicator LED. You only want one for a circuit, the other outlets "hang" off it. There is also the unwritten rule of putting outlets at about 50" above the floor, so sheet goods will not block access to them. -- Froz... The system will be down for 10 days for preventive maintenance. |
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Also, in case you want to put your workbench in front of them.
"FrozenNorth" wrote in message ... There is also the unwritten rule of putting outlets at about 50" above the floor, so sheet goods will not block access to them. -- |
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You can run 10ga if you want, but regular romex works just as well. The up side is that you do not have to buy any special wire. The white and black are both hot and the bare wire is your neutral. I have my tablesaw, lathe and welder wired that way and have had for quite some time. Deb Hoosierpopi wrote: Dedicated 240VAC Circuits using 10GA is what I would suggest. Not at all sure why you would run 120VAC outlets near the floor in a shop unless you have a specific tool in mind. Someone suggested a ceiling outlet. I have one every four feet or so running two independantly switched circuits - one for my fans and the other (using three and four-way switches) for the shop lighting. One oulet on the lights circuit could be extended to the location of your table or shelving where your battery charger (tv or radio) will sit. This allows you to connect the chargers (drill, wireless phone, etc) and shut them down when you leave the shop. The compressor might also be on a switched circuit to prevent it from leaking down and recharging at three AM. If you have a bench up against a wall (I saw none in your pdf), the idea of running outlets along the front edge is one I fully support and have implemented using power strips run under the table and up into the wall outlets. 120VAC outlets every 4 feet along the walls and six or eight inches above the highest work surface makes lots of sense and, again, I have implemented the approach in every shop I've built. For a little more cash, you can gang two duplex outlets at each location "just in case." I ran 8GA to the shop breaker box and breakers for each circuit. GFCI can be done at the breaker box, but is not needed in dry location and can be a pain if the GFCI pops at one end of the shop when you are using something at the other. If you do get one, look for those with an Indicator LED. You only want one for a circuit, the other outlets "hang" off it. |
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OMG! Don't do that one! The bare wire should never be a current carrying
(neutral) wire. What did you use for equipment case ground? "Dr.Deb" wrote in message ... You can run 10ga if you want, but regular romex works just as well. The up side is that you do not have to buy any special wire. The white and black are both hot and the bare wire is your neutral. I have my tablesaw, lathe and welder wired that way and have had for quite some time. Deb |
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On 7/06/10 12:04 AM, Dr.Deb wrote:
You can run 10ga if you want, but regular romex works just as well. The up side is that you do not have to buy any special wire. The white and black are both hot and the bare wire is your neutral. I have my tablesaw, lathe and welder wired that way and have had for quite some time. Deb No inspections in your pat of town obviously, that is dangerous. -- Froz... The system will be down for 10 days for preventive maintenance. |
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In article , FrozenNorth wrote:
On 7/06/10 12:04 AM, Dr.Deb wrote: You can run 10ga if you want, but regular romex works just as well. The up side is that you do not have to buy any special wire. The white and black are both hot and the bare wire is your neutral. I have my tablesaw, lathe and welder wired that way and have had for quite some time. Deb No inspections in your pat of town obviously, that is dangerous. Oh? Please explain, in detail, exactly what you imagine is dangerous. |
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FrozenNorth wrote in news:i0u6ve$9u8$1
@news.eternal-september.org: There is also the unwritten rule of putting outlets at about 50" above the floor, so sheet goods will not block access to them. It's not a rule, but it's definitely written. It's one of my favorite "DOs" when someone asks about outlet placement and the like. (I suggest 54" to be sure the whole box clears if the installer measured from the top.) Puckdropper -- Never teach your apprentice everything you know. |
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On 7/06/10 12:38 AM, Doug Miller wrote:
In , wrote: On 7/06/10 12:04 AM, Dr.Deb wrote: You can run 10ga if you want, but regular romex works just as well. The up side is that you do not have to buy any special wire. The white and black are both hot and the bare wire is your neutral. I have my tablesaw, lathe and welder wired that way and have had for quite some time. Deb No inspections in your pat of town obviously, that is dangerous. Oh? Please explain, in detail, exactly what you imagine is dangerous. Bare neutral instead of ground. No mention of proper tagging of the white as a hot. For a pure 220V circuit it may be safe, but the bare is a ground, and wrap red tape on the ends of the white so it is *really* obvious if someone else ever opens that box. -- Froz... The system will be down for 10 days for preventive maintenance. |
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HoosierPopi, I think I went with many of the suggestions you and other
provided me with a few months ago. The electrical boxes are in and I spent about $400 on wire, circuit breakers, and accessories today! Hoosierpopi wrote: Dedicated 240VAC Circuits using 10GA is what I would suggest. That's was I did. 3 on the bottom of the wall on the right. See: http://web.newsguy.com/MySite/Garage_with_Tools7.pdf Not at all sure why you would run 120VAC outlets near the floor in a shop unless you have a specific tool in mind. I put one near the back door, and a light switch where one would expect to find it. 120VAC outlets every 4 feet along the walls and six or eight inches above the highest work surface makes lots of sense and, again, I have implemented the approach in every shop I've built. For a little more cash, you can gang two duplex outlets at each location "just in case." See pdf above. I spent the cash! : ) I ran 8GA to the shop breaker box and breakers for each circuit. I'm going to use 6-3 NM-B and a used a 60 amp breaker GFCI can be done at the breaker box, but is not needed in dry location and can be a pain if the GFCI pops at one end of the shop when you are using something at the other. If you do get one, look for those with an Indicator LED. You only want one for a circuit, the other outlets "hang" off it. I'm doing it at the breaker box. Best, Bill |
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In article , FrozenNorth wrote:
On 7/06/10 12:38 AM, Doug Miller wrote: In , wrote: On 7/06/10 12:04 AM, Dr.Deb wrote: You can run 10ga if you want, but regular romex works just as well. The up side is that you do not have to buy any special wire. The white and black are both hot and the bare wire is your neutral. I have my tablesaw, lathe and welder wired that way and have had for quite some time. Deb No inspections in your pat of town obviously, that is dangerous. Oh? Please explain, in detail, exactly what you imagine is dangerous. Bare neutral instead of ground. He's talking about a 240V circuit -- there is no neutral. He incorrectly referred to ground as neutral, but it's still a ground, and it's perfectly OK for it to be bare. No mention of proper tagging of the white as a hot. Technically, that's a Code violation, but it hardly qualifies as dangerous IMHO. For a pure 220V circuit it may be safe, No. *Is* safe. but the bare is a ground, and wrap red tape on the ends of the white so it is *really* obvious if someone else ever opens that box. True. |
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Troll bait.
"FrozenNorth" wrote in message ... Bare neutral instead of ground. No mention of proper tagging of the white as a hot. For a pure 220V circuit it may be safe, but the bare is a ground, and wrap red tape on the ends of the white so it is *really* obvious if someone else ever opens that box. -- On 7/06/10 12:38 AM, Doug Miller wrote: In , wrote: On 7/06/10 12:04 AM, Dr.Deb wrote: You can run 10ga if you want, but regular romex works just as well. The up side is that you do not have to buy any special wire. The white and black are both hot and the bare wire is your neutral. I have my tablesaw, lathe and welder wired that way and have had for quite some time. Deb No inspections in your pat of town obviously, that is dangerous. Oh? Please explain, in detail, exactly what you imagine is dangerous. |
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On Jul 6, 7:30*am, (Doug Miller) wrote:
In article , FrozenNorth wrote: No mention of proper tagging of the white as a hot. Technically, that's a Code violation, but it hardly qualifies as dangerous IMHO. How is a 240V circuit supposed to be run? Do they make red/black/bare 12/2? I've always used a sharpie to paint the white, red. |
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Use the black and white for the two hot legs. The bare is not to be used for
a current carrying conductor...against the code(s) and DANGEROUS. In addition to many other dnagers of this you would not have a case ground for your electrical boxes and frames of equipment. Not a good idea and an inspector would make you take it all out and kick your ass hard! I would run a 12/3 or 10/3 cable to have a neutral in case I wanted to install a device needing a neutral in a mind or usage change, later on. Then you would have red and black for hots and white for neutral, bare for ground. wrote in message ... How is a 240V circuit supposed to be run? Do they make red/black/bare 12/2? I've always used a sharpie to paint the white, red. On Jul 6, 7:30 am, (Doug Miller) wrote: In article , FrozenNorth wrote: No mention of proper tagging of the white as a hot. Technically, that's a Code violation, but it hardly qualifies as dangerous IMHO. -- Have your accounts been removed by other's complaints? Do you like to force your opinions on others? Do you need to use multiple names due to shame and fear? Better rates for those requiring anonymity to survive! ******** easynews.com, trolling made easy ********** |
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Doug Miller wrote:
In article , FrozenNorth wrote: On 7/06/10 12:04 AM, Dr.Deb wrote: You can run 10ga if you want, but regular romex works just as well. The up side is that you do not have to buy any special wire. The white and black are both hot and the bare wire is your neutral. I have my tablesaw, lathe and welder wired that way and have had for quite some time. Deb No inspections in your pat of town obviously, that is dangerous. Oh? Please explain, in detail, exactly what you imagine is dangerous. Look again Doug - the recommendation was to use the bare ground as a neutral current carrier. A mistake in wording perhaps, but as written it is a violation of code and for good reason. -- -Mike- |
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Doug Miller wrote:
He's talking about a 240V circuit -- there is no neutral. He incorrectly referred to ground as neutral, but it's still a ground, and it's perfectly OK for it to be bare. Agreed on the incorrect usage of terms, but there sure can be a neutral in a 240v run - think appliances. Granted, that would be a 4 wire configuration in a proper circuit, but in a forum where people ask questions based on a lack of experience and knowledge, missteps like this are problematic. -- -Mike- |
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In article , " wrote:
On Jul 6, 7:30=A0am, (Doug Miller) wrote: In article , FrozenNorth frozen= wrote: No mention of proper tagging of the white as a hot. Technically, that's a Code violation, but it hardly qualifies as dangerous IMHO. How is a 240V circuit supposed to be run? Do they make red/black/bare 12/2? Not that I've ever seen. I've always used a sharpie to paint the white, red. Same here. Red or black. |
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In article , "Mike Marlow" wrote:
Doug Miller wrote: In article , FrozenNorth wrote: On 7/06/10 12:04 AM, Dr.Deb wrote: You can run 10ga if you want, but regular romex works just as well. The up side is that you do not have to buy any special wire. The white and black are both hot and the bare wire is your neutral. I have my tablesaw, lathe and welder wired that way and have had for quite some time. Deb No inspections in your pat of town obviously, that is dangerous. Oh? Please explain, in detail, exactly what you imagine is dangerous. Look again Doug - the recommendation was to use the bare ground as a neutral current carrier. A mistake in wording perhaps, but as written it is a violation of code and for good reason. You look again. He's talking about a 240V circuit, which does not have a neutral. Yes, it's a mistake in wording, and yes, it's a violation to have a bare neutral -- but the circuit he's talking about doesn't *have* a neutral. |
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In article , "Mike Marlow" wrote:
Doug Miller wrote: He's talking about a 240V circuit -- there is no neutral. He incorrectly referred to ground as neutral, but it's still a ground, and it's perfectly OK for it to be bare. Agreed on the incorrect usage of terms, but there sure can be a neutral in a 240v run - think appliances. That's not a 240V circuit. That's a 240/120 circuit. Granted, that would be a 4 wire configuration in a proper circuit, Exactly. Since it's not a 4-wire configuration, it's not that type of circuit. but in a forum where people ask questions based on a lack of experience and knowledge, missteps like this are problematic. Agreed, and this discussion certainly helps to clarify the issues. |
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Doug Miller wrote:
In article , "Mike Marlow" wrote: Doug Miller wrote: In article , FrozenNorth wrote: On 7/06/10 12:04 AM, Dr.Deb wrote: You can run 10ga if you want, but regular romex works just as well. The up side is that you do not have to buy any special wire. The white and black are both hot and the bare wire is your neutral. I have my tablesaw, lathe and welder wired that way and have had for quite some time. Deb No inspections in your pat of town obviously, that is dangerous. Oh? Please explain, in detail, exactly what you imagine is dangerous. Look again Doug - the recommendation was to use the bare ground as a neutral current carrier. A mistake in wording perhaps, but as written it is a violation of code and for good reason. You look again. He's talking about a 240V circuit, which does not have a neutral. Yes, it's a mistake in wording, and yes, it's a violation to have a bare neutral -- but the circuit he's talking about doesn't *have* a neutral. Think beyond that Doug. 4 wire 240v circuits do use a neutral and in a forum where many pariticipants don't really know or understand the nuances of things like this, the use of terminology becomes a bit important. If you fix it in someone's mind that the bare wire can be run as a neutral in a 240v circuit, the wrong stage is set for that person when they have to wire in a 240v circuit that does require a neutral. -- -Mike- |
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In article , "Mike Marlow" wrote:
Doug Miller wrote: In article , "Mike Marlow" wrote: Doug Miller wrote: In article , FrozenNorth wrote: On 7/06/10 12:04 AM, Dr.Deb wrote: You can run 10ga if you want, but regular romex works just as well. The up side is that you do not have to buy any special wire. The white and black are both hot and the bare wire is your neutral. I have my tablesaw, lathe and welder wired that way and have had for quite some time. Deb No inspections in your pat of town obviously, that is dangerous. Oh? Please explain, in detail, exactly what you imagine is dangerous. Look again Doug - the recommendation was to use the bare ground as a neutral current carrier. A mistake in wording perhaps, but as written it is a violation of code and for good reason. You look again. He's talking about a 240V circuit, which does not have a neutral. Yes, it's a mistake in wording, and yes, it's a violation to have a bare neutral -- but the circuit he's talking about doesn't *have* a neutral. Think beyond that Doug. 4 wire 240v circuits do use a neutral and in a forum where many pariticipants don't really know or understand the nuances of things like this, the use of terminology becomes a bit important. If you fix it in someone's mind that the bare wire can be run as a neutral in a 240v circuit, the wrong stage is set for that person when they have to wire in a 240v circuit that does require a neutral. Well, OK, I'll concede that point. |
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On 7/06/10 9:08 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
Doug Miller wrote: In , FrozenNorth wrote: On 7/06/10 12:04 AM, Dr.Deb wrote: You can run 10ga if you want, but regular romex works just as well. The up side is that you do not have to buy any special wire. The white and black are both hot and the bare wire is your neutral. I have my tablesaw, lathe and welder wired that way and have had for quite some time. Deb No inspections in your pat of town obviously, that is dangerous. Oh? Please explain, in detail, exactly what you imagine is dangerous. Look again Doug - the recommendation was to use the bare ground as a neutral current carrier. A mistake in wording perhaps, but as written it is a violation of code and for good reason. That is why I jumped on it. Could be bad wording, could be a violation, but still *not* right. And it is dangerous to the next person who unwittingly opens that electrical box, it will not be entirely obvious what is going on. -- Froz... The system will be down for 10 days for preventive maintenance. |
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On Jul 6, 8:30*am, (Doug Miller) wrote:
In article , " wrote: On Jul 6, 7:30=A0am, (Doug Miller) wrote: In article , FrozenNorth frozen= wrote: No mention of proper tagging of the white as a hot. Technically, that's a Code violation, but it hardly qualifies as dangerous IMHO. How is a 240V circuit supposed to be run? *Do they make red/black/bare 12/2? Not that I've ever seen. I've always used a sharpie to paint the white, red. Same here. Red or black. Oh, I musta misunderstood you incorrectly above, when you said that "tagging of the white as hot" was a code violation. I considered painting the insulation as "tagging". |
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This is typical for potshot Doug. Part of the Little Miss Tisn't act.
He told another guy that 120v shocks won't really hurt you. Dangerous act. "FrozenNorth" wrote in message ... That is why I jumped on it. Could be bad wording, could be a violation, but still *not* right. And it is dangerous to the next person who unwittingly opens that electrical box, it will not be entirely obvious what is going on. -- -- Have your accounts been removed by other's complaints? Do you like to force your opinions on others? Do you need to use multiple names due to shame and fear? Better rates for those requiring anonymity to survive! ******** easynews.com, trolling made easy ********** |
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That may pass in the USA but not in the Canadian electrical code.
Wire markings must be continuous down the whole length of the conductor. That was brought in a few versions ago. White is acceptable for a live line though. Happens on most 120v circuits with a switched light anyway. wrote in message ... Oh, I musta misunderstood you incorrectly above, when you said that "tagging of the white as hot" was a code violation. I considered painting the insulation as "tagging". |
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On Jul 6, 7:55*am, "Josepi" wrote:
Use the black and white for the two hot legs. The bare is not to be used for a current carrying conductor...against the code(s) and DANGEROUS. In addition to many other dnagers of this you would not have a case ground for your electrical boxes and frames of equipment. Not a good idea and an inspector would make you take it all out and kick your ass hard! ....and this has exactly what to do with anything I've said? I would run a 12/3 or 10/3 cable to have a neutral in case I wanted to install a device needing a neutral in a mind or usage change, later on. Then you would have red and black for hots and white for neutral, bare for ground. How many tools do you know that need a neutral? I suppose there are some with 120V lights, but there is a significant cost difference between /2 and /3 cable. |
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In article , " wrote:
On Jul 6, 8:30=A0am, (Doug Miller) wrote: In article .= com, " wrote: On Jul 6, 7:30=3DA0am, (Doug Miller) wrote: In article , FrozenNorth fro= zen=3D wrote: No mention of proper tagging of the white as a hot. Technically, that's a Code violation, but it hardly qualifies as dangerous IMHO. How is a 240V circuit supposed to be run? Do they make red/black/bare 12/2? Not that I've ever seen. I've always used a sharpie to paint the white, red. Same here. Red or black. Oh, I musta misunderstood you incorrectly above, when you said that "tagging of the white as hot" was a code violation. I considered painting the insulation as "tagging". Sorry, that was unclear. I meant that *failure* to mark the white as hot is a Code violation. |
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Apparently I misthreaded on the last one.
While we are giving out advise to run way too much copper everywhere for an under 15 amp woodworking shop in a garage... Running the 3 conductor now would be cheaper than opening the walls to run it later because he wants a 120v dust collector or a block heater for his car in that corner. wrote in message ... How many tools do you know that need a neutral? I suppose there are some with 120V lights, but there is a significant cost difference between /2 and /3 cable. On Jul 6, 7:55 am, "Josepi" wrote: I would run a 12/3 or 10/3 cable to have a neutral in case I wanted to install a device needing a neutral in a mind or usage change, later on. Then you would have red and black for hots and white for neutral, bare for ground. |
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On Tue, 6 Jul 2010 12:47:27 -0400, "Josepi" wrote:
Apparently I misthreaded on the last one. While we are giving out advise to run way too much copper everywhere for an under 15 amp woodworking shop in a garage... I musta missed that thread. Who in their right mind would plan on running an entire shop on 15A? Who would use a 15A circuit for anything other than lighting? Running the 3 conductor now would be cheaper than opening the walls to run it later because he wants a 120v dust collector or a block heater for his car in that corner. Just make sure there are plenty of *20A* circuits around. Last I checked 12/3 was about 2x the cost of 12/2. Nope, not buying it. wrote in message ... How many tools do you know that need a neutral? I suppose there are some with 120V lights, but there is a significant cost difference between /2 and /3 cable. On Jul 6, 7:55 am, "Josepi" wrote: I would run a 12/3 or 10/3 cable to have a neutral in case I wanted to install a device needing a neutral in a mind or usage change, later on. Then you would have red and black for hots and white for neutral, bare for ground. |
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On Tue, 6 Jul 2010 11:26:14 -0400, "Josepi" wrote:
That may pass in the USA but not in the Canadian electrical code. Wire markings must be continuous down the whole length of the conductor. That was brought in a few versions ago. White is acceptable for a live line though. Happens on most 120v circuits with a switched light anyway. *That* is nutz. |
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Comments or suggestions welcome. In fact, all I seek is a simple nod.
Thank you again to those of you who helped me to reach this point (of understanding)! Dear Bill: 566 (excuse me 567) posts. Have your reached a point of understanding yet? Does anyone else have the patience to click back to this original post to see what the topic was? Ron |
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RonB wrote:
Comments or suggestions welcome. In fact, all I seek is a simple nod. Thank you again to those of you who helped me to reach this point (of understanding)! Dear Bill: 566 (excuse me 567) posts. Have your reached a point of understanding yet? Understanding is almost as much a journey as a destination, no? Ron, I'm having a great journey, did you see my recent snapshots (http://web.newsguy.com/MySite/) ? How about yourself? Bill |
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RonB wrote:
Comments or suggestions welcome. In fact, all I seek is a simple nod. Thank you again to those of you who helped me to reach this point (of understanding)! Dear Bill: 566 (excuse me 567) posts. Have your reached a point of understanding yet? Does anyone else have the patience to click back to this original post to see what the topic was? Ron I believe I actually started the thread originally and then restarted it a few months later. I think the main question you should ask yourself is: Did you learn anything or were you just counting? Bill |
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