|
Shop Wall and Electric - Opps
"Lobby Dosser" wrote Dad worked for Toledo Edison and sometimes did field inventory in the summer. He'd pay me to ride along and take the notes for him. We covered all of NW Ohio. And to put the orange cone out whenever the car or truck was stopped, as was required by T.E.? I always got a kick out of seeing orange cones in places where they were totally unnecessary. g Yep, I have only been back to the area a small handful of times in the last 25 or so years. It was a pretty good place to grow up, though. -- Jim in NC |
Shop Wall and Electric
"J. Clarke" wrote New construction yes, older houses, not so much. MOST older construction in the South has now been fitted with Central Air, too. Still, a few do not have it. The conversation was mainly about new construction wiring practices. If an older home needed more capacity, and had 15 amp branches, they would not be putting in new wires and new breakers to replace all of the old. They would be adding more outlets, and most likely would not use heavy wires and breakers, but just add some more 15 amp circuits. -- Jim in NC |
Shop Wall and Electric
On 9/4/2010 10:49 AM, Morgans wrote:
"J. wrote New construction yes, older houses, not so much. MOST older construction in the South has now been fitted with Central Air, too. Still, a few do not have it. The conversation was mainly about new construction wiring practices. If an older home needed more capacity, and had 15 amp branches, they would not be putting in new wires and new breakers to replace all of the old. They would be adding more outlets, and most likely would not use heavy wires and breakers, but just add some more 15 amp circuits. So I'm doing it wrong when I use a piece of 12 gage aluminum as a pull string for 12 gage copper? |
Shop Wall and Electric
"J. Clarke" wrote So I'm doing it wrong when I use a piece of 12 gage aluminum as a pull string for 12 gage copper? Why not use a proper electricians fish line? Not necessarily wrong, but do you really need to have a 15 amp and 20 amp in the same area? It would follow that two 15 amp branches would be plenty of capacity; more than even a single 20 amp. If you want to mess with the 20 amp added circuit, go ahead. You will anyway, right? -- Jim in NC |
Shop Wall and Electric
Why not make it a 30 ampere circuit then? The same logic would apply with
the wimpy 20A circuits. Perhaps an iron, toaster amd waffle iron are all wanted to be used in the bathroom, at the same time. "Morgans" wrote in message ... Why not use a proper electricians fish line? Not necessarily wrong, but do you really need to have a 15 amp and 20 amp in the same area? It would follow that two 15 amp branches would be plenty of capacity; more than even a single 20 amp. If you want to mess with the 20 amp added circuit, go ahead. You will anyway, right? -- Jim in NC |
Shop Wall and Electric
On 9/4/2010 12:48 PM, Morgans wrote:
"J. wrote So I'm doing it wrong when I use a piece of 12 gage aluminum as a pull string for 12 gage copper? Why not use a proper electricians fish line? So what, I use the aluminum to pull the fish tape and then use the fish tape to pull the copper? Why do the extra step? Not necessarily wrong, but do you really need to have a 15 amp and 20 amp in the same area? Nope, just the 20 amp. It would follow that two 15 amp branches would be plenty of capacity; more than even a single 20 amp. And two 20 amp branches would be even better. If you want to mess with the 20 amp added circuit, go ahead. Who said anything about an "added circuit"? You will anyway, right? |
Shop Wall and Electric
On 9/4/2010 1:08 PM, Josepi wrote:
Why not make it a 30 ampere circuit then? The same logic would apply with the wimpy 20A circuits. What section of code would allow that, Mr. Heap Big Electrical Inspector? Perhaps an iron, toaster amd waffle iron are all wanted to be used in the bathroom, at the same time. wrote in message ... Why not use a proper electricians fish line? Not necessarily wrong, but do you really need to have a 15 amp and 20 amp in the same area? It would follow that two 15 amp branches would be plenty of capacity; more than even a single 20 amp. If you want to mess with the 20 amp added circuit, go ahead. You will anyway, right? |
Shop Wall and Electric
In article , "J. Clarke" wrote:
On 9/4/2010 1:08 PM, Josepi wrote: Why not make it a 30 ampere circuit then? The same logic would apply with the wimpy 20A circuits. What section of code would allow that, Mr. Heap Big Electrical Inspector? PDFTFT. |
Shop Wall and Electric
PDFTFT ??? |
Shop Wall and Electric - Opps
"Morgans" wrote in message
... "Lobby Dosser" wrote Dad worked for Toledo Edison and sometimes did field inventory in the summer. He'd pay me to ride along and take the notes for him. We covered all of NW Ohio. And to put the orange cone out whenever the car or truck was stopped, as was required by T.E.? I always got a kick out of seeing orange cones in places where they were totally unnecessary. g Yep, I have only been back to the area a small handful of times in the last 25 or so years. It was a pretty good place to grow up, though. But humid as all get out. Cold winters. Tornados. Mosquitoes. I do kind of miss crickets and cicadas ... |
Shop Wall and Electric
On 9/4/2010 6:32 PM, Morgans wrote:
PDFTFT ??? Please Don't Feed The Foolish Troll. Or some variation thereof... :-) -- See Nad. See Nad go. Go Nad! To reply, eat the taco. http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/ |
Shop Wall and Electric
"Steve Turner" wrote in message ... On 9/4/2010 6:32 PM, Morgans wrote: PDFTFT ??? Please Don't Feed The Foolish Troll. Or some variation thereof... :-) Gottcha. Or some variation, huh? g Thanks! -- Jim in NC |
Shop Wall and Electric
"Mike Marlow" writes:
Scott Lurndal wrote: An iron pulls 10A at 115. That doesn't leave much for the blow dryer or space heater that might be used on the same bedroom circuit. I've seen AV receivers that pull 12A under load, add an ampere or two for the TV, and one more for the STB, and you've exceeded the safe rating of the receptacle. Only if you're plugging everything into the same receptacle. That's why I said the 'safe rating of the receptacle'. Consider a plug strip used with a home theater setup. Add an electric blanket or waterbed heater and you've blown the circuit. Then add a window AC unit, or plug in the rug steamer... Though to be fair - are you really going to be running all of those at the same time? How many homeowners know what circuits each receptacle is part of? I assume the worst case, most uninformed homeowner, who does plug the iron into the same branch circuit his/her A/C window unit is using. Given that a (not perhaps typical) home theater setup can easily draw 12A+, I think 20A circuit should be used for all living space receptacles. scott (Who has one computer system that draws 7.2kw). |
Shop Wall and Electric
"Morgans" writes:
"Scott Lurndal" wrote An iron pulls 10A at 115. That doesn't leave much for the blow dryer or space heater that might be used on the same bedroom circuit. I've seen AV receivers that pull 12A under load, add an ampere or two for the TV, and one more for the STB, and you've exceeded the safe rating of the receptacle. Add an electric blanket or waterbed heater and you've blown the circuit. Then add a window AC unit, or plug in the rug steamer... Good Lord, man! Put all that crap on at the same time, and TWO 20 amp circuits couldn't pull it without blowing. You run rug steamers, while the electric blanket is running? Really? More comments not added about ridiculous possibilities of using multiple stuff all at one time. The electric waterbed heater is thermostatically controlled. It starts and stops when it needs to. SWMBO uses the electric blanket when she naps. You obviously live alone, without kids. Things get plugged in all time time and kids seldom do load calculations prior to plugging it. I couldn't afford to run all of the crap you have listed. worlds smallest violin. We use blow dryers in the bathroom. Different circuit than the bedroom. Most use an iron in the utility room, also. And of course, you are typical of everyone else, right? Everyone has a utility room? Everyone has enough bathrooms that everyone can get ready at the same time? You never have guests? The point of all this is that an electrician, or homebuilder, cannot make the assumption that all people live like you do, since they don't. Therefore, they're going to put in 20A circuits (either due to code, or common sense). I have to ask. If you have never tried to live in a house with 15 amp circuits (since they are not allowed to be used under your codes) how do you know that 15 amps is not enough? You couldn't. You have never tried that. I've several loads that alone, will exceed 15A. Oh, and down South, we have Central Air. No window AC units are needed, Window A/C can be significantly more efficient than central, when only cooling part of the home. And of course not all houses, by a longshot, in the "down south" have central A/C. scott |
Shop Wall and Electric
On 9/5/2010 3:22 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
How many homeowners know what circuits each receptacle is part of? Speaking of that, why in the hell don't the codes call for some sort of standard labeling scheme so that a person could read a number off the front of the switch or outlet and trace it straight back to the very breaker in the panel to which it's connected? -- Free bad advice available here. To reply, eat the taco. http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/ |
Shop Wall and Electric
That would be an excellent idea. I have labelled many of my circuit
recepticals inside the box but that only helps the electricain to identify things. I could never figure out a nice way of labelling them. Good panel circuit descriptions help somewhat but the "Receptical over there" comment is confusing...LOL "Steve Turner" wrote in message ... Speaking of that, why in the hell don't the codes call for some sort of standard labeling scheme so that a person could read a number off the front of the switch or outlet and trace it straight back to the very breaker in the panel to which it's connected? -- Free bad advice available here. To reply, eat the taco. http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee On 9/5/2010 3:22 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote: How many homeowners know what circuits each receptacle is part of? |
Shop Wall and Electric
On Mon, 06 Sep 2010 08:46:07 -0500, Steve Turner
wrote: On 9/5/2010 3:22 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote: How many homeowners know what circuits each receptacle is part of? Speaking of that, why in the hell don't the codes call for some sort of standard labeling scheme so that a person could read a number off the front of the switch or outlet and trace it straight back to the very breaker in the panel to which it's connected? How would that prevent a fire or electrocution? |
Shop Wall and Electric
On 9/6/10 12:58 PM, Steve Turner wrote:
On 9/6/2010 12:09 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote: On Mon, 06 Sep 2010 08:46:07 -0500, Steve Turner wrote: On 9/5/2010 3:22 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote: How many homeowners know what circuits each receptacle is part of? Speaking of that, why in the hell don't the codes call for some sort of standard labeling scheme so that a person could read a number off the front of the switch or outlet and trace it straight back to the very breaker in the panel to which it's connected? How would that prevent a fire or electrocution? If you could tear yourself away from the endless and pointless thread leading up to my minor diversion (which is what I tried to do by snipping away all the other context), try picturing the situation where the homeowner is able to TELL (quickly and easily) exactly which breaker cuts the power to the outlet he wants to fiddle with (without manually tripping every other friggin breaker in the box and hitting the outlet with a meter just to find out what SHOULD have been documented at installation) so that when he sticks the screwdriver in there he doesn't get zapped? I can't tell you many times I've deferred the reworking of an outlet because I didn't want to accidentally power down the internet gateway or reset all the damn clocks in the house... Every time I work on an outlet or ceiling fan or get in a junction box anywhere in the house, I try to remember to mark the number of the breaker on the inside on the cover with a sharpie. Of course, I also have one of those radio jobbies that plug into the outlet and beep when you place the receiver over the correct breaker... but that number on the inside barrows it down much quicker. :-) In the shop, every outlet, quad, light, junction box) has the breaker number written in sharpie on the outside, clear as day. In fact, I have little symbols I write on the romex running overhead, indicating what it's running to or from: hot, switch, 3-way, etc. I've rearranged my shop so many times-- after getting better tools or doing a major reorganization, overhauling the lighting-- all that labeling *really* sped up any rewiring I had to do. -- -MIKE- "Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life" --Elvin Jones (1927-2004) -- http://mikedrums.com ---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply |
Shop Wall and Electric
Steve Turner wrote:
If you could tear yourself away from the endless and pointless thread leading up to my minor diversion (which is what I tried to do by snipping away all the other context), try picturing the situation where the homeowner is able to TELL (quickly and easily) exactly which breaker cuts the power to the outlet he wants to fiddle with (without manually tripping every other friggin breaker in the box and hitting the outlet with a meter just to find out what SHOULD have been documented at installation) so that when he sticks the screwdriver in there he doesn't get zapped? I can't tell you many times I've deferred the reworking of an outlet because I didn't want to accidentally power down the internet gateway or reset all the damn clocks in the house... That's why I use a magic marker to write the circuit breaker number on the wall under the switch/outlet cover plate. -- Jack Novak Buffalo, NY - USA |
Shop Wall and Electric
Steve Turner wrote in
: On 9/5/2010 3:22 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote: How many homeowners know what circuits each receptacle is part of? Speaking of that, why in the hell don't the codes call for some sort of standard labeling scheme so that a person could read a number off the front of the switch or outlet and trace it straight back to the very breaker in the panel to which it's connected? I've been tempted to short something out intentionally to see which breaker pops. Seems like it would be a lot easier than tracing breakers in a box a supposedly professional electrician didn't label. Are there devices that plug into the power source and produce a specific signal that's tracable back at the panel? Puckdropper -- Never teach your apprentice everything you know. |
Shop Wall and Electric
On 9/6/2010 3:43 PM, Puckdropper wrote:
Steve wrote in : On 9/5/2010 3:22 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote: How many homeowners know what circuits each receptacle is part of? Speaking of that, why in the hell don't the codes call for some sort of standard labeling scheme so that a person could read a number off the front of the switch or outlet and trace it straight back to the very breaker in the panel to which it's connected? I've been tempted to short something out intentionally to see which breaker pops. Seems like it would be a lot easier than tracing breakers in a box a supposedly professional electrician didn't label. Are there devices that plug into the power source and produce a specific signal that's tracable back at the panel? Puckdropper -MIKE- mentioned something like that; I've never seen one, but it sounds cool. I don't know how such a device would help you track which circuit a light switch is on though. -- "Our beer goes through thousands of quality Czechs every day." (From a Shiner Bock billboard I saw in Austin some years ago) To reply, eat the taco. http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/ |
Shop Wall and Electric
On 9/06/10 4:59 PM, Steve Turner wrote:
On 9/6/2010 3:43 PM, Puckdropper wrote: Steve wrote in : On 9/5/2010 3:22 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote: How many homeowners know what circuits each receptacle is part of? Speaking of that, why in the hell don't the codes call for some sort of standard labeling scheme so that a person could read a number off the front of the switch or outlet and trace it straight back to the very breaker in the panel to which it's connected? I've been tempted to short something out intentionally to see which breaker pops. Seems like it would be a lot easier than tracing breakers in a box a supposedly professional electrician didn't label. Are there devices that plug into the power source and produce a specific signal that's tracable back at the panel? Puckdropper -MIKE- mentioned something like that; I've never seen one, but it sounds cool. I don't know how such a device would help you track which circuit a light switch is on though. There are screw in adaptors that will let you temporarily use a light socket as an outlet..... These signal tracers do work, but sometimes, maybe depending on the panel or how heavily loaded the panel is, the results are not such that you get a lot of confidence in them. At least that is my experience with them. -- Froz... The system will be down for 10 days for preventive maintenance. |
Shop Wall and Electric
On Sep 6, 5:11*pm, FrozenNorth
wrote: On 9/06/10 4:59 PM, Steve Turner wrote: On 9/6/2010 3:43 PM, Puckdropper wrote: Steve wrote in : On 9/5/2010 3:22 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote: How many homeowners know what circuits each receptacle is part of? Speaking of that, why in the hell don't the codes call for some sort of standard labeling scheme so that a person could read a number off the front of the switch or outlet and trace it straight back to the very breaker in the panel to which it's connected? I've been tempted to short something out intentionally to see which breaker pops. Seems like it would be a lot easier than tracing breakers in a box a supposedly professional electrician didn't label. Are there devices that plug into the power source and produce a specific signal that's tracable back at the panel? Puckdropper -MIKE- mentioned something like that; I've never seen one, but it sounds cool. I don't know how such a device would help you track which circuit a light switch is on though. There are screw in adaptors that will let you temporarily use a light socket as an outlet..... These signal tracers do work, but sometimes, maybe depending on the panel or how heavily loaded the panel is, the results are not such that you get a lot of confidence in them. *At least that is my experience with them. -- Froz... The system will be down for 10 days for preventive maintenance. Indeed. I have a tracing unit and when there are two long lines running close to each other, the induction can set up just enough phantom voltage to trick the thing. Handy as hell, but hardly foolproof. I have seen lots of guys deliberately shorting an outlet with a piece of wire, in order to trip the breaker, saving a looooong walk to the breaker panel. "Supposed to be THE ultimate test anyway, right?" |
Shop Wall and Electric
On 9/6/10 3:43 PM, Puckdropper wrote:
Steve wrote in : On 9/5/2010 3:22 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote: How many homeowners know what circuits each receptacle is part of? Speaking of that, why in the hell don't the codes call for some sort of standard labeling scheme so that a person could read a number off the front of the switch or outlet and trace it straight back to the very breaker in the panel to which it's connected? I've been tempted to short something out intentionally to see which breaker pops. Seems like it would be a lot easier than tracing breakers in a box a supposedly professional electrician didn't label. Are there devices that plug into the power source and produce a specific signal that's tracable back at the panel? Puckdropper Mine is from Radio Shack and is a clone of this... http://hitechhub.com/hi-techhtp-6-circuitdetective.aspx Google Digital Circuit Breaker Finder and you'll find many. -- -MIKE- "Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life" --Elvin Jones (1927-2004) -- http://mikedrums.com ---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply |
Shop Wall and Electric
On Mon, 6 Sep 2010 14:27:27 -0700 (PDT), Robatoy
wrote: On Sep 6, 5:11*pm, FrozenNorth wrote: On 9/06/10 4:59 PM, Steve Turner wrote: These signal tracers do work, but sometimes, maybe depending on the panel or how heavily loaded the panel is, the results are not such that you get a lot of confidence in them. *At least that is my experience with them. Indeed. I have a tracing unit and when there are two long lines running close to each other, the induction can set up just enough phantom voltage to trick the thing. Handy as hell, but hardly foolproof. Wiring in my panel is so close that it defeats the tracer, unfortunately. I was disappinted in my shiny new used unit. I have seen lots of guys deliberately shorting an outlet with a piece of wire, in order to trip the breaker, saving a looooong walk to the breaker panel. "Supposed to be THE ultimate test anyway, right?" Purist (read: anal) Sparkies everywhere change a breaker out if it has been tripped even once. In any case, shorting out live breakers is iffy at best, a fire at worst. -- Happiness comes of the capacity to feel deeply, to enjoy simply, to think freely, to risk life, to be needed. -- Storm Jameson |
Shop Wall and Electric
On 9/6/2010 5:22 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Mon, 06 Sep 2010 12:58:20 -0500, Steve Turner wrote: On 9/6/2010 12:09 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote: On Mon, 06 Sep 2010 08:46:07 -0500, Steve Turner wrote: On 9/5/2010 3:22 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote: How many homeowners know what circuits each receptacle is part of? Speaking of that, why in the hell don't the codes call for some sort of standard labeling scheme so that a person could read a number off the front of the switch or outlet and trace it straight back to the very breaker in the panel to which it's connected? How would that prevent a fire or electrocution? If you could tear yourself away from the endless and pointless thread leading up to my minor diversion (which is what I tried to do by snipping away all the other context), I did. I asked you a question pertaining *only* to what you wrote. Your response to my original post has nothing whatsoever to do with what I wrote. NOTHING. Forget the rest of this thread. Read what Scott wrote above, then read what I wrote. Your response speaks to a completely different conversation. try picturing the situation where the homeowner is able to TELL (quickly and easily) exactly which breaker cuts the power to the outlet he wants to fiddle with (without manually tripping every other friggin breaker in the box and hitting the outlet with a meter just to find out what SHOULD have been documented at installation) so that when he sticks the screwdriver in there he doesn't get zapped? Only an idiot would do that. Are you worried about doing it? Oh really, so a screwdriver isn't the correct tool for removing and connecting wires to a switch or outlet? Wires that connect with SCREWS? I can't tell you many times I've deferred the reworking of an outlet because I didn't want to accidentally power down the internet gateway or reset all the damn clocks in the house... ...and why would the NFPA be concerned with your inconvenience? If you're that inconvenienced why don't you label your circuits? Why don't you go **** yourself? The rest of the participants in my little leg of the thread have had no trouble reading and understanding what I wrote, and most even seem to agree with me. You've had a hard-on for me ever since we butted heads back in the T/S Inertia thread. Why don't you get over it already? -- See Nad. See Nad go. Go Nad! To reply, eat the taco. http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/ |
Shop Wall and Electric
On Mon, 06 Sep 2010 18:33:58 -0500, Steve Turner
wrote: On 9/6/2010 5:22 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote: On Mon, 06 Sep 2010 12:58:20 -0500, Steve Turner wrote: On 9/6/2010 12:09 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote: On Mon, 06 Sep 2010 08:46:07 -0500, Steve Turner wrote: On 9/5/2010 3:22 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote: How many homeowners know what circuits each receptacle is part of? Speaking of that, why in the hell don't the codes call for some sort of standard labeling scheme so that a person could read a number off the front of the switch or outlet and trace it straight back to the very breaker in the panel to which it's connected? How would that prevent a fire or electrocution? If you could tear yourself away from the endless and pointless thread leading up to my minor diversion (which is what I tried to do by snipping away all the other context), I did. I asked you a question pertaining *only* to what you wrote. Your response to my original post has nothing whatsoever to do with what I wrote. NOTHING. Forget the rest of this thread. Read what Scott wrote above, then read what I wrote. Your response speaks to a completely different conversation. Wrong again, dumb****. You insisted that "codes call for some sort of standard labeling scheme...". I answered by asking why would do such a stupid thing, considering that your convenience has nothing to do their goals (saving life). The NFPA's only concern is protecting life and property by learning from other's deaths. Labels on outlets aren't going to save one life or one building. IOW, they're not interested in how lazy you are, unless you're a danger to others (hmm). try picturing the situation where the homeowner is able to TELL (quickly and easily) exactly which breaker cuts the power to the outlet he wants to fiddle with (without manually tripping every other friggin breaker in the box and hitting the outlet with a meter just to find out what SHOULD have been documented at installation) so that when he sticks the screwdriver in there he doesn't get zapped? Only an idiot would do that. Are you worried about doing it? Oh really, so a screwdriver isn't the correct tool for removing and connecting wires to a switch or outlet? Wires that connect with SCREWS? Not with power on, idiot. Turn the damned power off. If you can't tell which outlet is controlled by which breaker, spend *your* time to map your house. I certainly don't want to have to pay a licensed electrician to flip switches and watch lights. Apparently you are dumb enough to work on energized circuits, though. I can't tell you many times I've deferred the reworking of an outlet because I didn't want to accidentally power down the internet gateway or reset all the damn clocks in the house... ...and why would the NFPA be concerned with your inconvenience? If you're that inconvenienced why don't you label your circuits? Why don't you go **** yourself? The rest of the participants in my little leg of the thread have had no trouble reading and understanding what I wrote, and most even seem to agree with me. You've had a hard-on for me ever since we butted heads back in the T/S Inertia thread. Why don't you get over it already? Perhaps they're as stupid as you are? Perhaps they haven't thought through this either. Perhaps they have a plan to label their own circuits (some have some good ideas - learn from them). Demanding that others do this for you is stupid as it comes. |
Shop Wall and Electric
LOL. yes real world for sure.
Hydro One used to build a system called IPACS (integrated system protection and control) that would telemeter and protect a HV Hydro station, all based on a few CPU algorithms. In Peru (?) they wanted to see this "short it out" done. Put the grounds on the 3000A bus and turn on the 28kV feed and let it do it's job.....scary!! "Robatoy" wrote in message ... On Sep 6, 5:46 pm, "Josepi" wrote: I have seen guys do that and run for the panel to stop the smoke coming out of other recepticals too. When a crappy breaker becomes stuborn the wire loop can be too hot to grab again. Dangerous idea. You think? But it is a 'real world test' nonetheless. |
Shop Wall and Electric
Electricians have heavy duty sticks that plug into a socket and
it draws high current and vibrates in the hand. It gives a wag for certain. It might be enough. An electric toaster or toaster oven would draw it - using the elements as loads. Most of us have tools at hand, it is a matter of application. Martin Martin H. Eastburn @ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net "Our Republic and the Press will Rise or Fall Together": Joseph Pulitzer TSRA: Endowed; NRA LOH & Patron Member, Golden Eagle, Patriot's Medal. NRA Second Amendment Task Force Originator & Charter Founder IHMSA and NRA Metallic Silhouette maker & member. http://lufkinced.com/ On 9/6/2010 3:59 PM, Steve Turner wrote: On 9/6/2010 3:43 PM, Puckdropper wrote: Steve wrote in : On 9/5/2010 3:22 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote: How many homeowners know what circuits each receptacle is part of? Speaking of that, why in the hell don't the codes call for some sort of standard labeling scheme so that a person could read a number off the front of the switch or outlet and trace it straight back to the very breaker in the panel to which it's connected? I've been tempted to short something out intentionally to see which breaker pops. Seems like it would be a lot easier than tracing breakers in a box a supposedly professional electrician didn't label. Are there devices that plug into the power source and produce a specific signal that's tracable back at the panel? Puckdropper -MIKE- mentioned something like that; I've never seen one, but it sounds cool. I don't know how such a device would help you track which circuit a light switch is on though. |
Shop Wall and Electric
"Lew Hodgett" wrote By design specification, a molded case thermal/magetic c'bkr only has to clear a fault ONCE. Most manufacturers must design to well over specs, then. I have never experienced a breaker that would not trip many multiple times from an overload, and continue to do so. -- Jim in NC |
Shop Wall and Electric
Larry Jaques wrote:
Larry, I thought I'd let you know I ended up buying the drywall book by Myron Ferguson that you recommended a while back. It was staring me right in the face today in the book section at Menards. I figured it's not too late to learn something and it looks like a good book (more helpful than Stanley's). Pulling out and retaping about 40 feet of tape slowed my progress a little but I still try to get something done after work everyday. I feel like I'm racing to beat the fall "cool-down". Bill |
Shop Wall and Electric
On Tue, 14 Sep 2010 22:28:24 -0400, Bill wrote:
Larry Jaques wrote: Larry, I thought I'd let you know I ended up buying the drywall book by Myron Ferguson that you recommended a while back. It was staring me right in the face today in the book section at Menards. I figured it's not too late to learn something and it looks like a good book (more helpful than Stanley's). Pulling out and retaping about 40 feet of tape slowed my progress a little but I still try to get something done after work everyday. I feel like I'm racing to beat the fall "cool-down". Funny, I'm waiting for it. ;-) Last weekend I finally got to do some work. I even got to play with one of my FesteringTools. I like! |
Shop Wall and Electric
On Tue, 14 Sep 2010 22:28:24 -0400, Bill wrote:
Larry Jaques wrote: Larry, I thought I'd let you know I ended up buying the drywall book by Myron Ferguson that you recommended a while back. It was staring me right in the face today in the book section at Menards. Lucky it warn't no snake, eh? Woulda _bit_ ya! I figured it's not too late to learn something and it looks like a good book (more helpful than Stanley's). Good man! So, did you end up putting in crown moulding? Pulling out and retaping about 40 feet of tape slowed my progress a Did you already say "Oops!" Ouch, that hurts. little but I still try to get something done after work everyday. I feel like I'm racing to beat the fall "cool-down". I'm in that race, too. I removed my back porch cover which slanted down to the roof. I decided to undo some idiot's choice and replace it with metal roofing. But now I have to get it done before the fall rainy season, which is already starting this week. Luckily, it's only 12 wide by 8' long, so it'll only take a day to rebuild. -- Not merely an absence of noise, Real Silence begins when a reasonable being withdraws from the noise in order to find peace and order in his inner sanctuary. -- Peter Minard |
Shop Wall and Electric
On 9/16/2010 10:16 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
So, did you end up putting in crown moulding? I may be trying to pretty up some crown molding in the living room in the future. Stay tuned. Pulling out and retaping about 40 feet of tape slowed my progress a Did you already say "Oops!" Ouch, that hurts. I try to save that for the occasional hammer blow to my index finger. Instead I say "man, that's pretty heavy" as I load and unload another 5 gallon bucket of all-purpose from the trunk of my car! I should probably graduate to the powdered stuff. I also picked up a 6' 500w/1000w tripod work light currently on sale for $25 at Menards. I'll try it out tonight. little but I still try to get something done after work everyday. I feel like I'm racing to beat the fall "cool-down". I'm in that race, too. I removed my back porch cover which slanted down to the roof. I decided to undo some idiot's choice and replace it with metal roofing. But now I have to get it done before the fall rainy season, which is already starting this week. Luckily, it's only 12 wide by 8' long, so it'll only take a day to rebuild. Sounds like a pretty involved project. Good luck with it! Bill |
Shop Wall and Electric
On Thu, 16 Sep 2010 11:01:46 -0400, Bill
wrote: On 9/16/2010 10:16 AM, Larry Jaques wrote: So, did you end up putting in crown moulding? I may be trying to pretty up some crown molding in the living room in the future. Stay tuned. Pulling out and retaping about 40 feet of tape slowed my progress a Did you already say "Oops!" Ouch, that hurts. I try to save that for the occasional hammer blow to my index finger. Instead I say "man, that's pretty heavy" as I load and unload another 5 gallon bucket of all-purpose from the trunk of my car! I should probably graduate to the powdered stuff. I also picked up a 6' 500w/1000w tripod work light currently on sale for $25 at Menards. I'll try it out tonight. Too bad. I would have suggested a multiple fluor worklight instead. None of the heat, danger, or massive electrical costs associated with the halogen crap. Daylight fluor CFLs are $2 each and use 13w each. They're the equivalent of a 100w incandescent bulb. You can buy up to 70w CFLs, too. Something like this. I got an umbrella style for $24 a few years back, but either works well. http://fwd4.me/ePe little but I still try to get something done after work everyday. I feel like I'm racing to beat the fall "cool-down". I'm in that race, too. I removed my back porch cover which slanted down to the roof. I decided to undo some idiot's choice and replace it with metal roofing. But now I have to get it done before the fall rainy season, which is already starting this week. Luckily, it's only 12 wide by 8' long, so it'll only take a day to rebuild. Sounds like a pretty involved project. Good luck with it! Nah, just your basic lean-to roofing structure. The uprights are already in the concrete patio so I'm just putting the wing on top. Thanks for the good wishes, though. -- "A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government." --Edward Abbey |
Shop Wall and Electric
I bought my first microwave oven just after getting married in 1972
We had people point o it and ask if it cleaned the dishes very well or we had to rinse them first. I used microwave ovens at work in 1968. They were a few years old then. Things sure change. And yeah, my microwave knocks my cordless phone for aloop now. All these years and I have never noticed it before until we built a home with a huge great room and we are all together for RFI living...LOL All these years they have been trying to get us to put in split recepticals support 120/240 circuits and now we step back with the GFCI ones at 20 amps. This junk is all supplier driven, not logic driven. The craziest thing was the split recepticals had to be leap frogged on the circuit ie. 1,3 & 5 recepticals could be on the same circuit and 2,4&6 on your counter could be the same circuit. Hoping you would plug the kettle in beside the toaster and never blow a breaker. We just need a phone system on our recepticals that reads out "line in use" "Martin H. Eastburn" wrote in message ... 1. assume the local inspectors know what the heck is going on... 2. assume the local / state supports the CEC on that... 3. assume the user is placing the microwave on the same spot the non-cook drew up the outlets in the kitchen or the builder in a kit-bash design. I bought a house built in 1970 - our first - and we didn't have microwaves then from what I know. In 1980 we bought a house and bought a large microwave. No issue. We bought a house in 1986 that was 10 years old - e.g. 76 - and it broke breakers. The house in 1987 was brand new and it broke breakers. Those last two were young enough, but were both in California! Wonder.... We finally lost that microwave two years ago and got a switcher model. That sucker is nice - it has bells and whistles but drives us batty. When we start it up, users of wireless internet are knocked off the air. I have to get my scope in here, but it appears to be the switcher noise is excessive. Martin |
Shop Wall and Electric
I suspect two things - have to get my scope in the house.
1. The case - SS - isn't grounded. So it radiates. What - I hope the switcher. The switcher that generates the power needed from high voltage to low current. 2. If it is microwave radiation that is killing the wireless internet - that is a serious quality issue and can blind someone...or more. I don't expect it is the power line - the laptop has filters and if not - Martin Martin H. Eastburn @ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net "Our Republic and the Press will Rise or Fall Together": Joseph Pulitzer TSRA: Endowed; NRA LOH & Patron Member, Golden Eagle, Patriot's Medal. NRA Second Amendment Task Force Originator & Charter Founder IHMSA and NRA Metallic Silhouette maker & member. http://lufkinced.com/ On 9/19/2010 9:25 PM, Josepi wrote: I bought my first microwave oven just after getting married in 1972 We had people point o it and ask if it cleaned the dishes very well or we had to rinse them first. I used microwave ovens at work in 1968. They were a few years old then. Things sure change. And yeah, my microwave knocks my cordless phone for aloop now. All these years and I have never noticed it before until we built a home with a huge great room and we are all together for RFI living...LOL All these years they have been trying to get us to put in split recepticals support 120/240 circuits and now we step back with the GFCI ones at 20 amps. This junk is all supplier driven, not logic driven. The craziest thing was the split recepticals had to be leap frogged on the circuit ie. 1,3& 5 recepticals could be on the same circuit and 2,4&6 on your counter could be the same circuit. Hoping you would plug the kettle in beside the toaster and never blow a breaker. We just need a phone system on our recepticals that reads out "line in use" "Martin H. wrote in message ... 1. assume the local inspectors know what the heck is going on... 2. assume the local / state supports the CEC on that... 3. assume the user is placing the microwave on the same spot the non-cook drew up the outlets in the kitchen or the builder in a kit-bash design. I bought a house built in 1970 - our first - and we didn't have microwaves then from what I know. In 1980 we bought a house and bought a large microwave. No issue. We bought a house in 1986 that was 10 years old - e.g. 76 - and it broke breakers. The house in 1987 was brand new and it broke breakers. Those last two were young enough, but were both in California! Wonder.... We finally lost that microwave two years ago and got a switcher model. That sucker is nice - it has bells and whistles but drives us batty. When we start it up, users of wireless internet are knocked off the air. I have to get my scope in here, but it appears to be the switcher noise is excessive. Martin |
Shop Wall and Electric
If that was the case you would be blind from your cell phone, wireless
phones, satellite dish remote(not iR), neighbour's RC car on the street and many other things. Test it. Hold a fluorescent bulb by the microwave door. If it glows, you got a problem. I got one of those "inverter microwaves = no magnitron" a few years back. Nice and light and obviously no big step-up transformer in it. Still can't figure out what makes the 2.4GHz after repairing a few years ago and replacing the magnotron in one.. "Martin H. Eastburn" wrote in message ... I suspect two things - have to get my scope in the house. 1. The case - SS - isn't grounded. So it radiates. What - I hope the switcher. The switcher that generates the power needed from high voltage to low current. 2. If it is microwave radiation that is killing the wireless internet - that is a serious quality issue and can blind someone...or more. I don't expect it is the power line - the laptop has filters and if not - Martin Martin H. Eastburn @ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net "Our Republic and the Press will Rise or Fall Together": Joseph Pulitzer TSRA: Endowed; NRA LOH & Patron Member, Golden Eagle, Patriot's Medal. NRA Second Amendment Task Force Originator & Charter Founder IHMSA and NRA Metallic Silhouette maker & member. http://lufkinced.com/ On 9/19/2010 9:25 PM, Josepi wrote: I bought my first microwave oven just after getting married in 1972 We had people point o it and ask if it cleaned the dishes very well or we had to rinse them first. I used microwave ovens at work in 1968. They were a few years old then. Things sure change. And yeah, my microwave knocks my cordless phone for aloop now. All these years and I have never noticed it before until we built a home with a huge great room and we are all together for RFI living...LOL All these years they have been trying to get us to put in split recepticals support 120/240 circuits and now we step back with the GFCI ones at 20 amps. This junk is all supplier driven, not logic driven. The craziest thing was the split recepticals had to be leap frogged on the circuit ie. 1,3& 5 recepticals could be on the same circuit and 2,4&6 on your counter could be the same circuit. Hoping you would plug the kettle in beside the toaster and never blow a breaker. We just need a phone system on our recepticals that reads out "line in use" "Martin H. wrote in message ... 1. assume the local inspectors know what the heck is going on... 2. assume the local / state supports the CEC on that... 3. assume the user is placing the microwave on the same spot the non-cook drew up the outlets in the kitchen or the builder in a kit-bash design. I bought a house built in 1970 - our first - and we didn't have microwaves then from what I know. In 1980 we bought a house and bought a large microwave. No issue. We bought a house in 1986 that was 10 years old - e.g. 76 - and it broke breakers. The house in 1987 was brand new and it broke breakers. Those last two were young enough, but were both in California! Wonder.... We finally lost that microwave two years ago and got a switcher model. That sucker is nice - it has bells and whistles but drives us batty. When we start it up, users of wireless internet are knocked off the air. I have to get my scope in here, but it appears to be the switcher noise is excessive. Martin |
Shop Wall and Electric
The magnetron is the oscillator. It has a cavity. Vary the cavity
and the frequency changes. Modulate the mechanical cavity and you are transmitting the modulation. That technology changes Radar on-the-fly thereby moving around a probing or sensing in the detection mode. The RF the magnetron if leaking in a crack of a door can cause cataracts and can whiten the cornea. The various phones are lightweight to that of an oven. We are talking sub 5 watts in a phone and IIRC from IEEE notes - it is 3 watts at the head, up to 5 watts on speaker phone. The oven is a thousand or 600 watts. The inverter replaces the heavy high voltage and filament winding and keyboard/processor power. It is a high frequency oscillator that 'rings' or oscillates on an RF core. The high voltage it generates drives the Magnetron. So there is a HF and a UHF source in the micro(u)wave. The UHF magnetron can if leaking cause fluorescent bulbs to flicker or glow. A common Neon bulb will as well. Testing will occur. If you had a Inverter unit without a Magnetron it would have a Microwave diode. The fact it does not disturb our Plasma TV a few feet away tends to tell me it is an oscillator leak, but not in the microwave band. Martin Martin H. Eastburn @ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net "Our Republic and the Press will Rise or Fall Together": Joseph Pulitzer TSRA: Endowed; NRA LOH & Patron Member, Golden Eagle, Patriot's Medal. NRA Second Amendment Task Force Originator & Charter Founder IHMSA and NRA Metallic Silhouette maker & member. http://lufkinced.com/ On 9/21/2010 3:39 PM, Josepi wrote: If that was the case you would be blind from your cell phone, wireless phones, satellite dish remote(not iR), neighbour's RC car on the street and many other things. Test it. Hold a fluorescent bulb by the microwave door. If it glows, you got a problem. I got one of those "inverter microwaves = no magnitron" a few years back. Nice and light and obviously no big step-up transformer in it. Still can't figure out what makes the 2.4GHz after repairing a few years ago and replacing the magnotron in one.. "Martin H. wrote in message ... I suspect two things - have to get my scope in the house. 1. The case - SS - isn't grounded. So it radiates. What - I hope the switcher. The switcher that generates the power needed from high voltage to low current. 2. If it is microwave radiation that is killing the wireless internet - that is a serious quality issue and can blind someone...or more. I don't expect it is the power line - the laptop has filters and if not - Martin Martin H. Eastburn @ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net "Our Republic and the Press will Rise or Fall Together": Joseph Pulitzer TSRA: Endowed; NRA LOH& Patron Member, Golden Eagle, Patriot's Medal. NRA Second Amendment Task Force Originator& Charter Founder IHMSA and NRA Metallic Silhouette maker& member. http://lufkinced.com/ On 9/19/2010 9:25 PM, Josepi wrote: I bought my first microwave oven just after getting married in 1972 We had people point o it and ask if it cleaned the dishes very well or we had to rinse them first. I used microwave ovens at work in 1968. They were a few years old then. Things sure change. And yeah, my microwave knocks my cordless phone for aloop now. All these years and I have never noticed it before until we built a home with a huge great room and we are all together for RFI living...LOL All these years they have been trying to get us to put in split recepticals support 120/240 circuits and now we step back with the GFCI ones at 20 amps. This junk is all supplier driven, not logic driven. The craziest thing was the split recepticals had to be leap frogged on the circuit ie. 1,3& 5 recepticals could be on the same circuit and 2,4&6 on your counter could be the same circuit. Hoping you would plug the kettle in beside the toaster and never blow a breaker. We just need a phone system on our recepticals that reads out "line in use" "Martin H. wrote in message ... 1. assume the local inspectors know what the heck is going on... 2. assume the local / state supports the CEC on that... 3. assume the user is placing the microwave on the same spot the non-cook drew up the outlets in the kitchen or the builder in a kit-bash design. I bought a house built in 1970 - our first - and we didn't have microwaves then from what I know. In 1980 we bought a house and bought a large microwave. No issue. We bought a house in 1986 that was 10 years old - e.g. 76 - and it broke breakers. The house in 1987 was brand new and it broke breakers. Those last two were young enough, but were both in California! Wonder.... We finally lost that microwave two years ago and got a switcher model. That sucker is nice - it has bells and whistles but drives us batty. When we start it up, users of wireless internet are knocked off the air. I have to get my scope in here, but it appears to be the switcher noise is excessive. Martin |
| All times are GMT +1. The time now is 10:20 PM. |
Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - 2014 DIYbanter