I wish to cut 1/2" wide mortises all the way through a fourbyfour (cutting
from both sides of course). Was just about to order the Amana bit# 45426
which is a double-fluted straight plunge bit, with 1/2" shank, 1/2" cutting
diameter and a 2" cutting height.

Will use a DeWalt 2.25HP Router. Is the above bit adequate for this job
(or do I need to look at spiral-fluted)? Just because the bit has a 2"
cutting height doesn't mean I should plan to try to cut more than 3/16 to
1/4" at a time, right?


BTW, Swingman, you were right--there are more bits than I thought out there!
I assume that since I have a plunge router that I'll be able to extend the
abilities of a single bit a little. For instance, using a bit with 1.5"
cutting height to cut a 1" deep groove. I know, of course, that one should
not use a bit that is too much longer than necessary due to deflection and
vibration, etc. I don't have any router bits at all yet, and my router
hasn't even arrived yet, so I sure I'm destined to learn a great deal! I
can try my hand at chisel-sharpening in the meantime.. Probably should dust
off Bill Hylton's book (on the router) on my shelf...

Bill

On 4/25/2010 3:22 AM, Bill wrote:
I wish to cut 1/2" wide mortises all the way through a fourbyfour (cutting
from both sides of course). Was just about to order the Amana bit# 45426
which is a double-fluted straight plunge bit, with 1/2" shank, 1/2" cutting
diameter and a 2" cutting height.

Will use a DeWalt 2.25HP Router. Is the above bit adequate for this job
(or do I need to look at spiral-fluted)? Just because the bit has a 2"
cutting height doesn't mean I should plan to try to cut more than 3/16 to
1/4" at a time, right?


BTW, Swingman, you were right--there are more bits than I thought out there!
I assume that since I have a plunge router that I'll be able to extend the
abilities of a single bit a little. For instance, using a bit with 1.5"
cutting height to cut a 1" deep groove. I know, of course, that one should
not use a bit that is too much longer than necessary due to deflection and
vibration, etc. I don't have any router bits at all yet, and my router
hasn't even arrived yet, so I sure I'm destined to learn a great deal! I
can try my hand at chisel-sharpening in the meantime.. Probably should dust
off Bill Hylton's book (on the router) on my shelf...

Just make sure that you have positive control of the router cutting
holes that deep--if you don't, it's easy for the bit to grab, rattle
around a bit, and break.

By positive control I mean a jig that doesn't let the router move any
direction but the direction you want it to, with no play to speak of.
Don't rely on hand pressure against a fence.

Found that out the hard way.

While spiral bits are wonderful in many ways, I wouldn't use one for
deep mortises until I was sure I could do them reliably with a straight
bit--the reason is that they cost a lot more than straight bits and
being solid carbide they're easier to break.

Learned that part the hard way too.

The jig doesn't have to be anything elaborate--you can cobble one up out
of a scrap of plywood and a couple of pieces of 2x4 that will do the
job, but it has to keep the router under control. If you need a mortise
wider than the bit, offset the router in the jig a little bit, then
reverse the jig to get your second cut (and do that for each step of
depth, don't cut all the way through then try to widen it--you may get
away with it but it's asking for trouble).

And as Allan Quatermain said to Tom Sawyer, "take your time, you've got
all the time in the world".

"J. Clarke" wrote in message
...

And as Allan Quatermain said to Tom Sawyer, "take your time, you've got
all the time in the world".

Thank you for sharing both of your lessons that you "learned the hardway"--I
was ignorant of
both issues and was likely to repeat them--especially the one about "relying
on hand pressure
against a fence". Secondly, in view of all the accolades given to carbide, I
did not consider it's
brittleness--clearly a factor here! If there's a lesson here, it's got to
be "don't take too much for
granted!"

Bill

On 4/25/2010 2:22 AM, Bill wrote:
I wish to cut 1/2" wide mortises all the way through a fourbyfour (cutting
from both sides of course). Was just about to order the Amana bit# 45426
which is a double-fluted straight plunge bit, with 1/2" shank, 1/2" cutting
diameter and a 2" cutting height.

Will use a DeWalt 2.25HP Router. Is the above bit adequate for this job
(or do I need to look at spiral-fluted)? Just because the bit has a 2"
cutting height doesn't mean I should plan to try to cut more than 3/16 to
1/4" at a time, right?

For plunge routing, and particularly with my Multi-Router, I use "end
mills", instead of router bits.

I generally buy them from:

http://www.travers.com/prodlist.asp?...h&q=end%20mill

You can get much longer "end mills", they work much better for deep
routing, and they are generally longer lasting and much less expensive
than router bits of the same ilk.

Call Travers, tell them what task you are doing with the end mills and
what your needs are, and they will tell you precisely what you need
without you having to wade through the countless choices on their web
site/catalog.

Trust them ... good company with excellent, well informed sales staff.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)

For plunge routing, and particularly with my Multi-Router, I use "end
mills", instead of router bits.
Karl

(...i think he's ripe for a 'bot...)

On 4/25/2010 7:12 PM, Robatoy wrote:

(...i think he's ripe for a 'bot...)

Not till after he's spent for the _entire_ Festool lineup...

...._then_ he'll be ripe.

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/

On Apr 25, 3:22*am, "Bill" wrote:
I wish to cut 1/2" wide mortises all the way through a fourbyfour (cutting
from both sides of course). *Was just about to order the Amana bit# 45426
which is a double-fluted straight plunge bit, with 1/2" shank, 1/2" cutting
diameter and a 2" cutting height.

Will use a DeWalt 2.25HP Router. * Is the above bit adequate for this job
(or do I need to look at spiral-fluted)? *Just because the bit has a 2"
cutting height doesn't mean I should plan to try to cut more than 3/16 to
1/4" at a time, right?

BTW, Swingman, you were right--there are more bits than I thought out there!
I assume that since I have a plunge router that I'll be able to extend the
abilities of a single bit a little. *For instance, using a bit with 1.5"
cutting height to cut a 1" deep groove. *I know, of course, that one should
not use a bit that is too much longer than necessary due to deflection and
vibration, etc. * I don't have any router bits at all yet, and my router
hasn't even arrived yet, so I sure I'm destined to learn a great deal! *I
can try my hand at chisel-sharpening in the meantime.. *Probably should dust
off Bill Hylton's book (on the router) on my shelf...

Bill

Done it with a PC 693 and a long 1/2" carbide bit. 1.5 hp
is more than adequate, since you can only take shallow
passes without clogging the mortise with chips. Hogging
out with a drill before routing is definitely advisable.

"Bill" wrote:
I wish to cut 1/2" wide mortises all the way through a fourbyfour
(cutting
from both sides of course).
snip

Other than an academic exercise, why bother?

A 4" long, 1/2" wide tenon cut to fit the above mortise?

Lew

"Lew Hodgett" wrote in message
...

"Bill" wrote:
I wish to cut 1/2" wide mortises all the way through a fourbyfour
(cutting
from both sides of course).
snip

Other than an academic exercise, why bother?

A 4" long, 1/2" wide tenon cut to fit the above mortise?

Lew


Lew,

Garrett Hack used two (double) 3" wide by 3.5" long tenons at the joint of
each trestle post and trestle shoe
in his design (which I am more or less following). To borrow one of your
expressions, perhaps be has "guilded
the lily". What would you do instead?

Bill

Lew Hodgett wrote:
"Bill" wrote:
I wish to cut 1/2" wide mortises all the way through a fourbyfour
(cutting
from both sides of course).
snip

ERRATA:

The phrase "I wish to cut 1/2" wide mortises"
should be replaced by
"I wish to cut mortises having 1/2" **end thickness**".


This is in according to Terrie Noll's book, "The Joint Book".

My thanks to *Lew* for trying to maintain a decent standard
for the clarity of communication around here!--and for yet
another valuable lesson. "Good enough is seldom good enough..."

Bill

"Bill" wrote in message
...
Lew Hodgett wrote:
"Bill" wrote:
I wish to cut 1/2" wide mortises all the way through a fourbyfour
(cutting
from both sides of course).
snip

ERRATA:

The phrase "I wish to cut 1/2" wide mortises"
should be replaced by
"I wish to cut mortises having 1/2" **end thickness**".


This is in according to Terrie Noll's book, "The Joint Book".

My thanks to *Lew* for trying to maintain a decent standard
for the clarity of communication around here!--and for yet
another valuable lesson. "Good enough is seldom good enough..."

Bill

Have you considered building something more simple and less costly before
building the work bench? I ask, as you state the 'router has not yet
arrived'. A garden bench can use the same joints and would be a perfect
practice piece. Just sayin' ...

Rumple Stiltskin wrote:

Have you considered building something more simple and less costly
before building the work bench? I ask, as you state the 'router has not
yet arrived'. A garden bench can use the same joints and would be a
perfect practice piece. Just sayin' ...

Thank you for your concern. In answer to your question, I have not a
decent place to sit in my shop, nor does my new grider/grinding wheel
nor my bench planer. I've been saying for a few months I just want to
get out there and cut some joints!

Motivated by J. Clarke's post yesterday, I've been envisioning my
routing jig throughout the day--not too hard since the router just has
to be able to slide back and forth--with no wobble! I'll block each end,
and perhaps on top of adjacent fourbyfours and use lots of clamps. Too
bad I don't have a DP or TS--I do have a circular saw I picked up at an
auction a few months ago for $7. Hope the blade's sharp! : )

I've got a few projects going on at the same time--sometimes it's too
much fun! I crawled around in the attic yesterday, installing my new
lighting is going to be too much fun (NOT)! : )

Bill

BTW, where did this new expression "Just sayin'..." come from? I've
been seeing it in a number of places lately.

" Rumple Stiltskin" wrote in message
...
Have you considered building something more simple and less costly before
building the work bench? I ask, as you state the 'router has not yet
arrived'.

I'll probably end up just trying to join two pieces of wood together, and
then
try again and again until I make at least one joint good enough to leave out
for show.
I still have a BS in the box. Have to figure out how to put that (heavy)
thing together.
Then I can rip some SYP so I can practice making table tops. Need to fettle
my
new antique planes first, of course, and my new chisels. So I will be doing
some glueing and planing excercises (too).
At the same time, I'll be tearing all of the drywall off of a wall so I can
install some
new wiring. I figure 3 duplex 110V outlets and 3 240v outlets, at least,
along with
the new subpanel I need to install. Looks like I'll need to pry up some
attic flooring to get to my ceiling
joists to install new lighting fixtures. I thought four T-5s ought to be
about right.
It works in my favor that all of these projects will occur in the same
vicinity! ; )
Somehow my "epoxying the concrete floor" project got bumped down the
list...will have to look into that.
I need a weekeater too! Maybe I can figure out a way to use the router for
that? : )

Bill

" Rumple Stiltskin" wrote in message
...

Have you considered building something more simple and less costly before
building the work bench? I ask, as you state the 'router has not yet
arrived'. A garden bench can use the same joints and would be a perfect
practice piece. Just sayin' ...


RS, holla at me about this goden bench, ya gotta pic man?

Bill (just off the infamous "8 Mile")

Is it a plunge blind hole ? or is it a cut from side or end ?
How will the wood escape ? Up spiral might be important if blind.

Martin

Bill wrote:
I wish to cut 1/2" wide mortises all the way through a fourbyfour (cutting
from both sides of course). Was just about to order the Amana bit# 45426
which is a double-fluted straight plunge bit, with 1/2" shank, 1/2" cutting
diameter and a 2" cutting height.

Will use a DeWalt 2.25HP Router. Is the above bit adequate for this job
(or do I need to look at spiral-fluted)? Just because the bit has a 2"
cutting height doesn't mean I should plan to try to cut more than 3/16 to
1/4" at a time, right?


BTW, Swingman, you were right--there are more bits than I thought out there!
I assume that since I have a plunge router that I'll be able to extend the
abilities of a single bit a little. For instance, using a bit with 1.5"
cutting height to cut a 1" deep groove. I know, of course, that one should
not use a bit that is too much longer than necessary due to deflection and
vibration, etc. I don't have any router bits at all yet, and my router
hasn't even arrived yet, so I sure I'm destined to learn a great deal! I
can try my hand at chisel-sharpening in the meantime.. Probably should dust
off Bill Hylton's book (on the router) on my shelf...

Bill

"Martin H. Eastburn" wrote in message
...
Is it a plunge blind hole ? or is it a cut from side or end ?
How will the wood escape ? Up spiral might be important if blind.

Martin

Plunge hole is blind. I'm hoping that if I don't cut too much at a time,
that the
wood "will find" a way to escape! Others suggested drilling a few
holes..that
would clearly be helpful in giving the wood a place to go as well. I'll be
buying an extra 4by4 to practice on..

Bill



Bill wrote:
I wish to cut 1/2" wide mortises all the way through a fourbyfour
(cutting from both sides of course). Was just about to order the Amana
bit# 45426 which is a double-fluted straight plunge bit, with 1/2" shank,
1/2" cutting diameter and a 2" cutting height.

Will use a DeWalt 2.25HP Router. Is the above bit adequate for this job
(or do I need to look at spiral-fluted)? Just because the bit has a 2"
cutting height doesn't mean I should plan to try to cut more than 3/16 to
1/4" at a time, right?


BTW, Swingman, you were right--there are more bits than I thought out
there! I assume that since I have a plunge router that I'll be able to
extend the abilities of a single bit a little. For instance, using a bit
with 1.5" cutting height to cut a 1" deep groove. I know, of course,
that one should not use a bit that is too much longer than necessary due
to deflection and vibration, etc. I don't have any router bits at all
yet, and my router hasn't even arrived yet, so I sure I'm destined to
learn a great deal! I can try my hand at chisel-sharpening in the
meantime.. Probably should dust off Bill Hylton's book (on the router)
on my shelf...

Bill

On Apr 25, 3:22*am, "Bill" wrote:
I wish to cut 1/2" wide mortises all the way through a fourbyfour (cutting
from both sides of course). *Was just about to order the Amana bit# 45426
which is a double-fluted straight plunge bit, with 1/2" shank, 1/2" cutting
diameter and a 2" cutting height.

Will use a DeWalt 2.25HP Router. * Is the above bit adequate for this job
(or do I need to look at spiral-fluted)? *Just because the bit has a 2"
cutting height doesn't mean I should plan to try to cut more than 3/16 to
1/4" at a time, right?

BTW, Swingman, you were right--there are more bits than I thought out there!
I assume that since I have a plunge router that I'll be able to extend the
abilities of a single bit a little. *For instance, using a bit with 1.5"
cutting height to cut a 1" deep groove. *I know, of course, that one should
not use a bit that is too much longer than necessary due to deflection and
vibration, etc. * I don't have any router bits at all yet, and my router
hasn't even arrived yet, so I sure I'm destined to learn a great deal! *I
can try my hand at chisel-sharpening in the meantime.. *Probably should dust
off Bill Hylton's book (on the router) on my shelf...

Bill

I would turn to my drill press and Mortising bit/chisel combination.
Espeacially in light of others' comments suggestiong you drill a few
through holes and clean up with a router bit. I mean, as long as
you're headed for the drill press anyway . . .

"Hoosierpopi" wrote in message
news:77e2cb7b-e772-4ea5-9121-
I would turn to my drill press and Mortising bit/chisel combination.
Espeacially in light of others' comments suggestiong you drill a few
through holes and clean up with a router bit. I mean, as long as
you're headed for the drill press anyway . . .
---


Yes, I was leaning that way. Then I decided I was likely to get more mileage
out of a router (than a DP). A TS would be dern handy too! One step at a
time, I guess.
If Grizzly would just have sale it might speed things up a bit! : )

Bill

On 2010-04-26 23:30:19 -0400, "Bill" said:

If Grizzly would just have sale it might speed things up a bit! : )

There's always Craigslist.

"Steve" wrote in message
ng.com...
On 2010-04-26 23:30:19 -0400, "Bill" said:

If Grizzly would just have sale it might speed things up a bit! : )

There's always Craigslist.



I read today that there was an ad in Popular Woodworking that says Grizzly
is going to have a sale
between 5/17 and 9/23 (or so), which would knock $100 off of the G0690,
G0691.
I assume shipping is still $144. The thread is at Saw Mill Creek forum
(under Deals & Discounts).

Bill

You could start with a drill and drill bits to remove most of the wood. It
'wood' save a lot of work.
Go all the way through with the drill, then even up the edges with the
router.

Doug


"Bill" wrote in message
...

I wish to cut 1/2" wide mortises all the way through a fourbyfour (cutting
from both sides of course). Was just about to order the Amana bit# 45426
which is a double-fluted straight plunge bit, with 1/2" shank, 1/2"
cutting diameter and a 2" cutting height.

Will use a DeWalt 2.25HP Router. Is the above bit adequate for this job
(or do I need to look at spiral-fluted)? Just because the bit has a 2"
cutting height doesn't mean I should plan to try to cut more than 3/16 to
1/4" at a time, right?


BTW, Swingman, you were right--there are more bits than I thought out
there! I assume that since I have a plunge router that I'll be able to
extend the abilities of a single bit a little. For instance, using a bit
with 1.5" cutting height to cut a 1" deep groove. I know, of course, that
one should not use a bit that is too much longer than necessary due to
deflection and vibration, etc. I don't have any router bits at all yet,
and my router hasn't even arrived yet, so I sure I'm destined to learn a
great deal! I can try my hand at chisel-sharpening in the meantime..
Probably should dust off Bill Hylton's book (on the router) on my shelf...

Bill

"DougVL" wrote in message
...
You could start with a drill and drill bits to remove most of the wood.
It 'wood' save a lot of work.
Go all the way through with the drill, then even up the edges with the
router.

Doug


I think it's a good idea too. It might even save a router bit or two.

Thanks,
Bill

"Bill" wrote in message
...

"DougVL" wrote in message
...
You could start with a drill and drill bits to remove most of the wood.
It 'wood' save a lot of work.
Go all the way through with the drill, then even up the edges with the
router.

Doug


I think it's a good idea too. It might even save a router bit or two.

Thanks,
Bill


You're likely going to end up using a chisel to square the corners, so just
drill and buy a good mortice chisel. Forget the router.

" Rumple Stiltskin" wrote in message
...
"Bill" wrote in message
...

"DougVL" wrote in message
...
You could start with a drill and drill bits to remove most of the wood.
It 'wood' save a lot of work.
Go all the way through with the drill, then even up the edges with the
router.

Doug


I think it's a good idea too. It might even save a router bit or two.

Thanks,
Bill


You're likely going to end up using a chisel to square the corners, so
just drill and buy a good mortice chisel. Forget the router.

Read DougVL's approach above. Seems to be lots of ways to get the job done,
some ways definitely seem to be a lot better than others and some seem to be
matters of style.
I think once you "hog off" the wood, both approaches wood work. Thank you
for your suggestions.

Bill

"Bill" wrote in message
...

" Rumple Stiltskin" wrote in message
...
"Bill" wrote in message
...

"DougVL" wrote in message
...
You could start with a drill and drill bits to remove most of the wood.
It 'wood' save a lot of work.
Go all the way through with the drill, then even up the edges with the
router.

Doug


I think it's a good idea too. It might even save a router bit or two.

Thanks,
Bill


You're likely going to end up using a chisel to square the corners, so
just drill and buy a good mortice chisel. Forget the router.

Read DougVL's approach above. Seems to be lots of ways to get the job
done,
some ways definitely seem to be a lot better than others and some seem to
be matters of style.
I think once you "hog off" the wood, both approaches wood work. Thank you
for your suggestions.

Bill


Are you going to round the tenons? If not, you are still going to end up
with a chisel in your hand. Unless, of course, you spring for the drill
press and mortice chisel for it.