Can't quite wrap my brain on how to tackle this.

I could make a template on my TS with my Wixey and
then use it on the miter.

The miter only has 1 degree increments.

Suggestions?

MJ

In article ,
wrote:
Can't quite wrap my brain on how to tackle this.

I could make a template on my TS with my Wixey and
then use it on the miter.

The miter only has 1 degree increments.

Suggestions?

Just the 'obvious' one -- use a shim to wedge the stock a an angle to the
'reference plane' (presumably the _back_ of the miter bed), such that it is
"mumble point 6" degrees off 'true'. Then set the miter saw to the appropriate
number of whole degrees, so that the comination gives the desired 70.6 angle.

Note: depending on which way you swing the blade, you may need to set the shim
wedge angle to "mumble point 4" degrees.

wrote in message
...
Can't quite wrap my brain on how to tackle this.

I could make a template on my TS with my Wixey and
then use it on the miter.

The miter only has 1 degree increments.

Suggestions?

MJ

Set it for 71 and give it a tap, or the left handed version is to set it to
70 and tap the other side. 1/10th of a degree is important for a moon shot,
but I doubt you're going to tell it on anything in wood. What is the
humidity today? Tomorrow?

On 02/16/2010 07:27 PM, wrote:
Can't quite wrap my brain on how to tackle this.

I could make a template on my TS with my Wixey and
then use it on the miter.

Some more options:

1) Lay out the angle using geometry, set a bevel gauge to it, use that
to set the saw.

2) Take a bevel gauge, set it to 70.6 using the wixey and your tablesaw
top. Use the bevel gauge to set the saw.

3) If your stock isn't too wide you could stand it on edge and use the
bevel angle and your wixey.

4) Lay the saw on its back and zero out the wixey on the fence, then use
it to set the angle.

5) Buy an angle gauge. $5 for a plastic one, $25 for a digital one.

Chris

wrote:

Can't quite wrap my brain on how to tackle this.

I could make a template on my TS with my Wixey and
then use it on the miter.

The miter only has 1 degree increments.

Suggestions?


At 70.6 degrees halfway between 70 and 71 would be close enough for me.

--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA

wrote in message
...
Can't quite wrap my brain on how to tackle this.

I could make a template on my TS with my Wixey and
then use it on the miter.

The miter only has 1 degree increments.

Suggestions?

MJ

Put your wood on the mitersaw 90 degrees to normal, adjust miter setting to
19.4 degrees.

On 2/17/2010 3:13 PM, Leon wrote:
wrote in message
...
Can't quite wrap my brain on how to tackle this.

I could make a template on my TS with my Wixey and
then use it on the miter.

The miter only has 1 degree increments.

Suggestions?

MJ

Put your wood on the mitersaw 90 degrees to normal, adjust miter setting to
19.4 degrees.

Bingo!

Or, graphically speaking:

http://www.e-woodshop.net/files/30-60Cuts.pdf

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

"Swingman" wrote:

Or, graphically speaking:

http://www.e-woodshop.net/files/30-60Cuts.pdf
-----------------
Use 70.6 triangle as aux fence and leave miter saw set at "0".

Keeps life simple.

Time to get a beer.

Lew

On 2/17/2010 5:28 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
"Swingman" wrote:

Or, graphically speaking:

http://www.e-woodshop.net/files/30-60Cuts.pdf
-----------------
Use 70.6 triangle as aux fence and leave miter saw set at "0".

Keeps life simple.

Time to get a beer.

No beer until you take the time to make the "70.6 triangle" first, which
is apparently not that easy for some, according to the OP.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

Want to thank all of you who responded to my question.

After consideration, I've decided that the "close enough" effort
(half way between 70 and 71, with a SLIGHT bump to 70) is
good for me.

As much as I would love to deal with a geometry question, my
math interests are more towards the theoretical these days (Riemann
Zeta Function anyone?), which can cause many hours of brain freeze.

It's interesting that a set of plans would have such an odd angle
to cut, when no tool that I know of, would allow you to make a
precision cut like 70.6 degrees.

Hmm,

MJ

On 2/17/2010 7:34 PM, wrote:
Want to thank all of you who responded to my question.

After consideration, I've decided that the "close enough" effort
(half way between 70 and 71, with a SLIGHT bump to 70) is
good for me.

As much as I would love to deal with a geometry question, my
math interests are more towards the theoretical these days (Riemann
Zeta Function anyone?), which can cause many hours of brain freeze.

It's interesting that a set of plans would have such an odd angle
to cut, when no tool that I know of, would allow you to make a
precision cut like 70.6 degrees.

Depends upon the size of your project. 1/10 degree of angle will put you
around 1/64+, at 12"; 3/64*" off at 24"; and 5/64+" at 4'; mas or menas.

That could be unacceptable for some projects.

I routinely use my digital angle gauge and the table saw to cut angles
to .1 degrees, cut a reference angle in a piece of scrap, and use it to
set up any other tool, miter saw, etc.

Or, you can set a bevel gauge to the angle of the table saw
blade/reference piece and transfer it wherever.

We all know it's woodworking, but it never hurts to endeavor to be as
precise as possible at every step because error becomes cumulative down
the road and around the corners.

Attention to detail is the difference between mediocrity and supremacy.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

"Swingman" wrote in message
...
On 2/17/2010 5:28 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
"Swingman" wrote:

Or, graphically speaking:

http://www.e-woodshop.net/files/30-60Cuts.pdf
-----------------
Use 70.6 triangle as aux fence and leave miter saw set at "0".

Keeps life simple.

Time to get a beer.

No beer until you take the time to make the "70.6 triangle"
first, which is apparently not that easy for some, according to
the OP.

Bull. . . something between 65 and 75 degrees plus Bondo works
well for me. grin


--
Nonny

ELOQUIDIOT (n) A highly educated, sophisticated,
and articulate person who has absolutely no clue
concerning what they are talking about.
The person is typically a media commentator or politician.

On 2/17/2010 10:13 PM, Nonny wrote:

"Swingman" wrote in message
...
On 2/17/2010 5:28 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
"Swingman" wrote:

Or, graphically speaking:

http://www.e-woodshop.net/files/30-60Cuts.pdf
-----------------
Use 70.6 triangle as aux fence and leave miter saw set at "0".

Keeps life simple.

Time to get a beer.

No beer until you take the time to make the "70.6 triangle" first,
which is apparently not that easy for some, according to the OP.

Bull. . . something between 65 and 75 degrees plus Bondo works well for
me. grin



When the sun's over the yardarm, there is such a thing as close enough.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

wrote in message
...
Want to thank all of you who responded to my question.

It's interesting that a set of plans would have such an odd angle
to cut, when no tool that I know of, would allow you to make a
precision cut like 70.6 degrees.

Hmm,

MJ

You don't consider an accurate protracter a tool?

Tom

" writes:

Want to thank all of you who responded to my question.

After consideration, I've decided that the "close enough" effort
(half way between 70 and 71, with a SLIGHT bump to 70) is
good for me.

As much as I would love to deal with a geometry question, my
math interests are more towards the theoretical these days (Riemann
Zeta Function anyone?), which can cause many hours of brain freeze.


If you solve the Hilbert problem, I will trust that you also know basic
plane geometry & trig...

On Feb 17, 7:34*pm, "
wrote:
Want to thank all of you who responded to my question.

After consideration, I've decided that the "close enough" effort
(half way between 70 and 71, with a SLIGHT bump to 70) is
good for me.

As much as I would love to deal with a geometry question, my
math interests are more towards the theoretical these days (Riemann
Zeta Function anyone?), which can cause many hours of brain freeze.

It's interesting that a set of plans would have such an odd angle
to cut, when no tool that I know of, would allow you to make a
precision cut like 70.6 degrees.

A few miter gauges have a 1/10 degree vernier, so the precision is
available (though perhaps not to 70 degrees, directly). What the
accuracy of the gauge is, including miter slot slop, may be another
matter.

On 2/17/2010 11:17 PM, Morris Dovey wrote:


Are you sure we wouldn't be better off using SketchUp?

Or CNC. What would either do without keyboards ...

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

On Feb 18, 9:04*am, Swingman wrote:
On 2/17/2010 11:17 PM, Morris Dovey wrote:



Are you sure we wouldn't be better off using SketchUp?

Or CNC. What would either do without keyboards ...

--www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

My Ouija Board has a USB2 port.

On Feb 17, 6:28*pm, "Lew Hodgett" wrote:
"Swingman" wrote:
Or, graphically speaking:

http://www.e-woodshop.net/files/30-60Cuts.pdf

-----------------
Use 70.6 triangle as aux fence and leave miter saw set at "0".

Keeps life simple.

Time to get a beer.

Lew

These are handy:
http://www.mortisejig.com/Angle%20divider.jpg

On 2/18/2010 8:18 AM, Robatoy wrote:
On Feb 18, 9:04 am, wrote:
On 2/17/2010 11:17 PM, Morris Dovey wrote:



Are you sure we wouldn't be better off using SketchUp?

Or CNC. What would either do without keyboards ...

--www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

My Ouija Board has a USB2 port.

My tape measures have wireless connections.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

On Feb 18, 9:23*am, Swingman wrote:
On 2/18/2010 8:18 AM, Robatoy wrote:

On Feb 18, 9:04 am, *wrote:
On 2/17/2010 11:17 PM, Morris Dovey wrote:

Are you sure we wouldn't be better off using SketchUp?

Or CNC. What would either do without keyboards ...

--www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

My Ouija Board has a USB2 port.

My tape measures have wireless connections.



*tips hat*
..
..
..
and then wonders why not and when?

"Tom Dacon" wrote in message
diainc...

wrote in message
...
Want to thank all of you who responded to my question.

It's interesting that a set of plans would have such an odd angle
to cut, when no tool that I know of, would allow you to make a
precision cut like 70.6 degrees.

Hmm,

MJ

You don't consider an accurate protracter a tool?


Does your accurat protractor have teeth to cut the wood??? He is looking
for a tool to "make" the cut not measure the cut.

"Swingman" wrote in message
...
On 2/18/2010 9:40 AM, Leon wrote:




Yeahbut Why even use the miter saw if you have to set up a jig?

Why?

For sake of argument ...


Well, there is that. Doh! LOL

Does your accurat protractor have teeth to cut the wood??? He is looking
for a tool to "make" the cut not measure the cut.

You use the protractor to set the miter gauge, then you use the table saw to
make the cut. How complicated is that?

Tom

wrote in message
...
On Feb 17, 7:34 pm, "
wrote:
A few miter gauges have a 1/10 degree vernier, so the precision is
available (though perhaps not to 70 degrees, directly). What the
accuracy of the gauge is, including miter slot slop, may be another
matter.

Come on, people - have you forgotten how to work without using miter gauges
that have built-in stops???

Tom

On Feb 18, 2:17*pm, "Tom Dacon" wrote:
wrote in message

...
On Feb 17, 7:34 pm, "
wrote:
A few miter gauges have a 1/10 degree vernier, so the precision is
available (though perhaps not to 70 degrees, directly). *What the
accuracy of the gauge is, including miter slot slop, may be another
matter.

Come on, people - have you forgotten how to work without using miter gauges
that have built-in stops???

Who said anything about stops?

On 2/18/10 2:15 PM, Tom Dacon wrote:

Does your accurat protractor have teeth to cut the wood??? He is
looking for a tool to "make" the cut not measure the cut.

You use the protractor to set the miter gauge, then you use the table
saw to make the cut. How complicated is that?

Tom


The point is.... in the OP's original statement, which you quoted, he
stated...
"no tool that I know of, would allow you to make a precision cut like
70.6 degrees."

It seems to be obvious to most of us that he's referring to a cutting
tool, not a measuring tool.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 2/18/2010 2:32 PM, -MIKE- wrote:

The point is.... in the OP's original statement, which you quoted, he
stated...
"no tool that I know of, would allow you to make a precision cut like
70.6 degrees."

It seems to be obvious to most of us that he's referring to a cutting
tool, not a measuring tool.

Fercrissakes, quit clouding the issue with facts! g

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

"Tom Dacon" wrote in message
diainc...

Does your accurat protractor have teeth to cut the wood??? He is looking
for a tool to "make" the cut not measure the cut.

You use the protractor to set the miter gauge, then you use the table saw
to make the cut. How complicated is that?


Have you ever set your TS miter gauge to 70.6 degrees?

"Tom Dacon" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
...
On Feb 17, 7:34 pm, "
wrote:
A few miter gauges have a 1/10 degree vernier, so the precision is
available (though perhaps not to 70 degrees, directly). What the
accuracy of the gauge is, including miter slot slop, may be another
matter.

Come on, people - have you forgotten how to work without using miter
gauges that have built-in stops???

Tom


I'll ask this again,,, can yo actually set your miter gauge to 70.6 degrees?

On Feb 18, 10:14*pm, "Leon" wrote:
"Tom Dacon" wrote in message

...



wrote in message
....
On Feb 17, 7:34 pm, "
wrote:
A few miter gauges have a 1/10 degree vernier, so the precision is
available (though perhaps not to 70 degrees, directly). *What the
accuracy of the gauge is, including miter slot slop, may be another
matter.

Come on, people - have you forgotten how to work without using miter
gauges that have built-in stops???

Tom

I'll ask this again,,, can yo actually set your miter gauge to 70.6 degrees?

When you set it at 19.4. It's all in how you look at it G

Leon wrote:
"Tom Dacon" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
...
On Feb 17, 7:34 pm, "
wrote:
A few miter gauges have a 1/10 degree vernier, so the precision is
available (though perhaps not to 70 degrees, directly). What the
accuracy of the gauge is, including miter slot slop, may be another
matter.

Come on, people - have you forgotten how to work without using miter
gauges that have built-in stops???

Tom


I'll ask this again,,, can yo actually set your miter gauge to 70.6
degrees?

Sure. You move it to the position and tigten the screw. Geez.

"-MIKE-" wrote in message
...
On 2/18/10 2:15 PM, Tom Dacon wrote:

It seems to be obvious to most of us that he's referring to a cutting
tool, not a measuring tool.

Let's go back to the OP's post:

Can't quite wrap my brain on how to tackle this.

I could make a template on my TS with my Wixey and
then use it on the miter.

The miter only has 1 degree increments.

Suggestions?


ALL my comments apply.

Tom

"-MIKE-" wrote in message
...
On 2/18/10 2:15 PM, Tom Dacon wrote:


It seems to be obvious to most of us that he's referring to a cutting
tool, not a measuring tool.


Mike, let's go back to the actual post:

when no tool that I know of, would ALLOW you to make a
precision cut like 70.6 degrees

The emphasis, of course, is mine, because he was just asking a question, not
telling you how to think.

I'll stand by all comments I've made on this thread.

Tom

On 2/18/10 11:17 PM, Tom Dacon wrote:

"-MIKE-" wrote in message
...
On 2/18/10 2:15 PM, Tom Dacon wrote:

It seems to be obvious to most of us that he's referring to a cutting
tool, not a measuring tool.

Let's go back to the OP's post:

Can't quite wrap my brain on how to tackle this.

I could make a template on my TS with my Wixey and
then use it on the miter.

The miter only has 1 degree increments.

Suggestions?


ALL my comments apply.

Tom


Then why didn't you quote that?


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 2/18/10 11:43 PM, Tom Dacon wrote:

"-MIKE-" wrote in message
...
On 2/18/10 2:15 PM, Tom Dacon wrote:


It seems to be obvious to most of us that he's referring to a cutting
tool, not a measuring tool.


Mike, let's go back to the actual post:

when no tool that I know of, would ALLOW you to make a
precision cut like 70.6 degrees

The emphasis, of course, is mine, because he was just asking a question,
not telling you how to think.

I'll stand by all comments I've made on this thread.

Tom


Methinks the lady doth protesteth too much. :-)


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

"Leon" wrote in message
...

"Tom Dacon" wrote in message
...

I'll ask this again,,, can yo actually set your miter gauge to 70.6
degrees?

Come on, Leon. Stop trying to be cute. He sets his miter guage at 19.4
degrees. Jeez.

Tom

wrote in message
...
Can't quite wrap my brain on how to tackle this.

I could make a template on my TS with my Wixey and
then use it on the miter.

The miter only has 1 degree increments.

Suggestions?

MJ

To everyone on this thread, here's a trigonometry lesson, and for something
like this, it is really, really all you need to know.

Who here has ever built a set of stairs, or put up a roof? It's all about
the RISE and the RUN, right? The RISE is the vertical distance between the
tops of two steps, the RUN is the horizontal distance between the noses of
the steps. Or for a shed roof, the RISE is the height of the peak above the
low side of the span, and the RUN is the width of the span.

Well the RISE divided by the RUN is what's called the tangent of the angle.

We're starting with an angle that we want on the edge of a board: 70.6. A
little thought tells us that to get that on a table saw we need to set our
miter gauge at 90 degrees minus 70.6, or 19.4 degrees. That's the angle we
need between the miter gauge bar and the face of the gauge. When we put a
piece of wood against the miter gauge face and run it through, we'll leave
an edge on the board that has an angle of 70.6 degrees with respect to the
side that rested against the miter gauge.

Now, we all have PC's right? And they all have a little application called
the Calculator. Or we have a hand calculator and if it's a scientific
calculator it has a TAN button on it. If it doesn't, fire up your PC.

Start up Calculator, or use your scientific calculator, and type in 19.4,
then hit the TAN button. What you'll see is the tangent of 19.4 degrees:
0.3521555 plus a whole bunch of other digits. Now here's the deal: if you
think of that in inches, it's the RISE over a RUN of one inch. For each
horizontal inch, the line rises about 11/32 inches or a little more. For ten
inches of run, it rises 3.521555 inches or about 3 17/32 inches.

Now take a piece of scrap plywood, about 24 inches by 24 inches, with one
good straight side. At about the middle of the best side, strike a line
across it with your most accurate square - and it should be an accurate
one - using a sharp hard-lead pencil or a striking knife. Since we have a
24-inch piece of plywood, let's use most of it: measure up that line exactly
20 inches and strike a mark across it. That 20 inches is going to be our
RUN.

With me so far? Now to use the tangent: Multiply the RISE over one inch
(0.3521555...) by the RUN (20 inches), and you get 7.0431118... inches. In
fractional inches, that's damned close to seven inches plus a 32nd and a
half, or 3/64ths. At my age, they might as well not put 64ths on scales any
more, so I'd do a 32nd and a half, as best as I could judge it.

Measure that distance to the right from the perpendicular line and strike it
on the good edge of the panel.

Finally, draw an angled line between that point and that 20-inch cross-mark
you made on the vertical line.

There it is. A line that describes an angle of 70.6 degrees with respect to
your good straight edge.

Finally the rubber hits the road: take your miter gauge and turn it over and
lay it down on the panel. Swing the bar until it lies along that angled line
as closely as your eye can gauge it. Tighten down the screw.

But wait, you might say, what if I'm a little off with my measurements -
what angle would I get instead? Well, as the calculator tells us with a
little keypunching, if you were to use 7 1/32 instead of 7 3/64 (a 64th
short), you'd get 70.63 degrees; if you were to use 7 1/16 (a 64th long)
you'd get 70.55 degrees, and in either case we're out no more than 1/64 inch
over a board width of 20 inches. Unfortunately our OP didn't tell us how
wide his board needed to be, but it's probably nowhere near this wide. At
ten inches of width, it turns out, it'll be no more than a thousandth of an
inch off.

So put the miter gauge in the table saw and make your cut. Then offer the
piece up to see how good your fit is, like we do with every board we've ever
cut in our lives. It's going to be perfect, or damned near to it.

And if it's not, what do we do? We reach into our aprons, don't we, and we
pull out a block plane and correct the fit by whatever it takes to make the
fit air-tight. A 64th of an inch is one and a half thousandths of an inch,
remember.

A faster and easier way to do this is to use an accurate protractor, as I've
recommended elsewhere in this thread. You'll eyeball the .6 degree on any
protractor I've ever seen - even a machinist's protractor- you'll make your
cut, and you'll correct the fit with a block plane if you have to. For a
reasonably narrow board you'll be damned near perfect. But even then, taking
the time to lay it out as I described will get get you closer than the
protractor would for a wide board.

Of course, if your miter gauge bar fits loosely in the slot, or there's some
spring or flex, no measurement no matter how accurate will give you the
results you want. But you need to fix that problem anyway, not just for this
one cut.

There it is. I hope this helps a bit. I don't have trig right at my
fingertips any more either, even though I've used it a lot in my lifetime,
and sometimes I have to bumble around a little to remember what I need to do
to solve a problem, but this part of it - the tangent - the rise and the
run - is easy to remember and really pays its way.

Hope this helps,
Tom Dacon

"Tom Dacon" wrote in message
diainc...

"Leon" wrote in message
...

"Tom Dacon" wrote in message
...

I'll ask this again,,, can yo actually set your miter gauge to 70.6
degrees?

Come on, Leon. Stop trying to be cute. He sets his miter guage at 19.4
degrees. Jeez.

Tom


And he ends up with a miter at 19.4 degrees. He needs 70.6 degrees. The
cut needs to be more towards a rip rather than closer to a cross cut. DOH!

On Feb 19, 8:09*am, "Leon" wrote:
"Tom Dacon" wrote in message

diainc...



"Leon" wrote in message
...

"Tom Dacon" wrote in message
...

I'll ask this again,,, can yo actually set your miter gauge to 70.6
degrees?

Come on, Leon. Stop trying to be cute. He sets his miter guage at 19.4
degrees. Jeez.

Tom

And he ends up with a miter at 19.4 degrees. *He needs 70.6 degrees. *The
cut needs to be more towards a rip rather than closer to a cross cut. *DOH!

Well, then you didn't look at Swing's SU pic. It *is* closer to a rip
than a cross cut.