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#1
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Loose tenon
Any tips on how to repair a tenon that stood a little too close to the
router bit, resulting in a loose fit in the mortise? I'm thinking about gluing a thin strip to each side of the tenon and taking another whack at it. Any other ideas will be appreciated. TIA Larry |
#3
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Loose tenon
" wrote: Any tips on how to repair a tenon that stood a little too close to the router bit, resulting in a loose fit in the mortise? Epoxy & microballoons. Make a fairing putty with above, then butter the mortice, shove tenon into place, clamp and remove excess fairing putty. The gates of Hell will rust shut before the joint fails. Lew |
#4
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Loose tenon
That is what I used to do when rebuilding old oak furniture. Assuming that
your router is still set up as ot was before. Another trick I used to do was wrapping a couple layers of medical gauze arond it, then soaking it with a fari amount of glue. " wrote in message ... Any tips on how to repair a tenon that stood a little too close to the router bit, resulting in a loose fit in the mortise? |
#5
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Loose tenon
On Dec 14, 5:46*pm, "Lew Hodgett" wrote:
" wrote: Any tips on how to repair a tenon that stood a little too close to the router bit, resulting in a loose fit in the mortise? Epoxy & microballoons. Make a fairing putty with above, then butter the mortice, shove tenon into place, clamp and remove excess fairing putty. The gates of Hell will rust shut before the joint fails. Lew Where does one purchase microballoons? |
#6
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Loose tenon
"GarageWoodworks" wrote: Where does one purchase microballoons? I used a local industrial chemical distributor. Cash only, 30 lb (4 cubic ft) bags, about $20-$25 a bag for Dic-a-Perl. Check Yelow Pages Lew |
#7
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Loose tenon
" wrote in message ... Any tips on how to repair a tenon that stood a little too close to the router bit, resulting in a loose fit in the mortise? I'm thinking about gluing a thin strip to each side of the tenon and taking another whack at it. Any other ideas will be appreciated. TIA Larry You could probably more easily and safely glue two thicker chunks of wood on to the tennon and have at it again. |
#8
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Loose tenon
On Dec 14, 4:40*pm, " wrote:
Any tips on how to repair a tenon that stood a little too close to the router bit, resulting in a loose fit in the mortise? *I'm thinking about gluing a thin strip to each side of the tenon and taking another whack at it. *Any other ideas will be appreciated. TIA Larry Sounds like you have it figured out. "The sign of a truly good woodworker is his/her ability to effectively repair screw-ups." |
#9
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Loose tenon
GarageWoodworks wrote:
On Dec 14, 5:46 pm, "Lew Hodgett" wrote: " wrote: Any tips on how to repair a tenon that stood a little too close to the router bit, resulting in a loose fit in the mortise? Epoxy & microballoons. Make a fairing putty with above, then butter the mortice, shove tenon into place, clamp and remove excess fairing putty. The gates of Hell will rust shut before the joint fails. Lew Where does one purchase microballoons? Among other sources Aircraft Spruce and Specialty http://www.aircraftspruce.com/menus/cm/fillers.html. |
#10
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Loose tenon
"J. Clarke" wrote: Among other sources Aircraft Spruce and Specialty http://www.aircraftspruce.com/menus/cm/fillers.html. As long as money is no object. Lew |
#11
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Loose tenon
On Dec 14, 5:40*pm, " wrote:
Any tips on how to repair a tenon that stood a little too close to the router bit, resulting in a loose fit in the mortise? *I'm thinking about gluing a thin strip to each side of the tenon and taking another whack at it. *Any other ideas will be appreciated. TIA Larry veneer and sanding |
#12
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Loose tenon
wrote in message ... On Dec 14, 5:40 pm, " wrote: Any tips on how to repair a tenon that stood a little too close to the router bit, resulting in a loose fit in the mortise? I'm thinking about gluing a thin strip to each side of the tenon and taking another whack at it. Any other ideas will be appreciated. TIA Larry veneer and sanding I like that one. WW |
#13
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Loose tenon
Yes, shiming with veener is pretty standard approach but am I missing
something here. Bad loose tenon. I would throw it in the trash and make a new one. Or is it already glued in on one side? Also, my typical rant on loose tenons. If you have a standard tenon and you pin it, then you have a joint that will last 100 years plus. Regardless of what happens to the glue. If you use a loose tenon and only pin one side or neither, it is not that same joint. In many cases, it won't make a difference or maybe make very little but on a chair or an apron of a table that will be dragged around, etc. It is not anywhere near as long lasting as the classic M&T. Whew, now I feel better. On Dec 14, 2:40*pm, " wrote: Any tips on how to repair a tenon that stood a little too close to the router bit, resulting in a loose fit in the mortise? *I'm thinking about gluing a thin strip to each side of the tenon and taking another whack at it. *Any other ideas will be appreciated. TIA Larry |
#14
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Loose tenon
"SonomaProducts.com" writes:
Yes, shiming with veener is pretty standard approach but am I missing something here. Bad loose tenon. I would throw it in the trash and make a new one. Or is it already glued in on one side? Also, my typical rant on loose tenons. If you have a standard tenon and you pin it, then you have a joint that will last 100 years plus. Regardless of what happens to the glue. If you use a loose tenon and only pin one side or neither, it is not that same joint. In many Earlier this year FWW did a bit on joint strengths. Loose tenon was supperior to m&t, pinned m&t and most of the other joint types (with half-lap and bridle being the strongest). scott |
#15
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Loose tenon
In 100 years when the glue has turned to powder, pull on the pinned
and un-pinned joints. Which is stronger? On Dec 15, 10:13*am, (Scott Lurndal) wrote: "SonomaProducts.com" writes: Yes, shiming with veener is pretty standard approach but am I missing something here. Bad loose tenon. I would throw it in the trash and make a new one. Or is it already glued in on one side? Also, my typical rant on loose tenons. If you have a standard tenon and you pin it, then you have a joint that will last 100 years plus. Regardless of what happens to the glue. If you use a loose tenon and only pin one side or neither, it is not that same joint. In many Earlier this year FWW did a bit on joint strengths. * Loose tenon was supperior to m&t, pinned m&t and most of the other joint types (with half-lap and bridle being the strongest). scott |
#16
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Loose tenon
"SonomaProducts.com" TOP POSTING CORRECTED:
On Dec 15, 10:13=A0am, (Scott Lurndal) wrote: "SonomaProducts.com" writes: Yes, shiming with veener is pretty standard approach but am I missing something here. Bad loose tenon. I would throw it in the trash and make a new one. Or is it already glued in on one side? Also, my typical rant on loose tenons. If you have a standard tenon and you pin it, then you have a joint that will last 100 years plus. Regardless of what happens to the glue. If you use a loose tenon and only pin one side or neither, it is not that same joint. In many Earlier this year FWW did a bit on joint strengths. =A0 Loose tenon was supperior to m&t, pinned m&t and most of the other joint types (with half-lap and bridle being the strongest). scott In 100 years when the glue has turned to powder, pull on the pinned and un-pinned joints. Which is stronger? Answer: Any good glue joint can last centuries. Its life will be shortened by moisture, heat and stress. Moisture on a tabletop is a common factor. Heat can be. And tabletop joints are stressed at the ends by the migration of moisture through the end grain -- that's why antique tops split on the ends typically. |
#17
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Loose tenon
Scott Lurndal wrote:
"SonomaProducts.com" TOP POSTING CORRECTED: In 100 years when the glue has turned to powder, pull on the pinned and un-pinned joints. Which is stronger? Answer: Any good glue joint can last centuries. Its life will be shortened by moisture, heat and stress. Moisture on a tabletop is a common factor. Heat can be. And tabletop joints are stressed at the ends by the migration of moisture through the end grain -- that's why antique tops split on the ends typically. If you do a proper job of pinning, and with the technique as a goal, you don't even need glue on an M&T joint. -- www.e-woodshop.net Last update: 10/22/08 KarlC@ (the obvious) |
#18
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Loose tenon
SonomaProducts.com wrote:
In 100 years when the glue has turned to powder, pull on the pinned and un-pinned joints. Which is stronger? Have the same dimensional changes that turned the glue into powder also either split out the section through which the pin passes or loosened the pin to the point that it long since fell out? On Dec 15, 10:13 am, (Scott Lurndal) wrote: "SonomaProducts.com" writes: Yes, shiming with veener is pretty standard approach but am I missing something here. Bad loose tenon. I would throw it in the trash and make a new one. Or is it already glued in on one side? Also, my typical rant on loose tenons. If you have a standard tenon and you pin it, then you have a joint that will last 100 years plus. Regardless of what happens to the glue. If you use a loose tenon and only pin one side or neither, it is not that same joint. In many Earlier this year FWW did a bit on joint strengths. Loose tenon was supperior to m&t, pinned m&t and most of the other joint types (with half-lap and bridle being the strongest). scott |
#19
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Loose tenon
J. Clarke wrote:
SonomaProducts.com wrote: In 100 years when the glue has turned to powder, pull on the pinned and un-pinned joints. Which is stronger? Have the same dimensional changes that turned the glue into powder also either split out the section through which the pin passes or loosened the pin to the point that it long since fell out? Indeed ... in many of these old pinned joints with no glue, you often see the detrimental effects of the stress of mechanical compression on both the pins and the exterior bore hole area, eventually ending in failure of the joint. The "test of time" is (for) a relative term. -- www.e-woodshop.net Last update: 10/22/08 KarlC@ (the obvious) |
#20
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Loose tenon
I don't think I will be around in 100 years. In any case, I don't care if it
falls apart after I'm dead. Being dead, nothing much is going to bother me. "SonomaProducts.com" wrote in message ... In 100 years when the glue has turned to powder, pull on the pinned and un-pinned joints. Which is stronger? On Dec 15, 10:13 am, (Scott Lurndal) wrote: "SonomaProducts.com" writes: Yes, shiming with veener is pretty standard approach but am I missing something here. Bad loose tenon. I would throw it in the trash and make a new one. Or is it already glued in on one side? Also, my typical rant on loose tenons. If you have a standard tenon and you pin it, then you have a joint that will last 100 years plus. Regardless of what happens to the glue. If you use a loose tenon and only pin one side or neither, it is not that same joint. In many Earlier this year FWW did a bit on joint strengths. Loose tenon was supperior to m&t, pinned m&t and most of the other joint types (with half-lap and bridle being the strongest). scott |
#21
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Loose tenon
I hope to live on through my work much as Gustav Stickley or Sam
Maloof (GRHS). On Dec 15, 12:08*pm, "CW" wrote: I don't think I will be around in 100 years. In any case, I don't care if it falls apart after I'm dead. Being dead, nothing much is going to bother me. "SonomaProducts.com" wrote in message ... In 100 years when the glue has turned to powder, pull on the pinned and un-pinned joints. Which is stronger? On Dec 15, 10:13 am, (Scott Lurndal) wrote: "SonomaProducts.com" writes: Yes, shiming with veener is pretty standard approach but am I missing something here. Bad loose tenon. I would throw it in the trash and make a new one. Or is it already glued in on one side? Also, my typical rant on loose tenons. If you have a standard tenon and you pin it, then you have a joint that will last 100 years plus. Regardless of what happens to the glue. If you use a loose tenon and only pin one side or neither, it is not that same joint. In many Earlier this year FWW did a bit on joint strengths. Loose tenon was supperior to m&t, pinned m&t and most of the other joint types (with half-lap and bridle being the strongest). scott- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - |
#22
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Loose tenon
Scott Lurndal wrote:
Earlier this year FWW did a bit on joint strengths. Loose tenon was supperior to m&t, pinned m&t and most of the other joint types (with half-lap and bridle being the strongest). My copy of that same report does not jive with the above with regard to loose/floating tenons ... 38-IN. MORTISE & TENON 1,444 lb. 38-IN. FLOATING M&T 1,396 lb. 38-IN. WEDGED M&T 1,210 lb. 38-IN. PINNED M&T 1,162 lb. Traditional mortise and tenons were ranked 4th in the overall strength test, being about 3.5% stronger than loose/floating tenons of equal thickness, which came in 5th. -- www.e-woodshop.net Last update: 10/22/08 KarlC@ (the obvious) |
#23
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Loose tenon
Scott Lurndal wrote:
Earlier this year FWW did a bit on joint strengths. Loose tenon was supperior to m&t, pinned m&t and most of the other joint types (with half-lap and bridle being the strongest). Hmm. Betcha they didn't test this one: http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/Projects/LLJ/ pinned or unpinned. It's the only joint I don't dare dry fit. -- Morris Dovey DeSoto Solar DeSoto, Iowa USA http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/ |
#24
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Loose tenon
Morris Dovey wrote:
Scott Lurndal wrote: Earlier this year FWW did a bit on joint strengths. Loose tenon was supperior to m&t, pinned m&t and most of the other joint types (with half-lap and bridle being the strongest). Hmm. Betcha they didn't test this one: http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/Projects/LLJ/ pinned or unpinned. It's the only joint I don't dare dry fit. Love it! Gonna run right out to the shop and grab my mortise chisel .... Hell, with a CNC, ya don't need no steenking joints! All you need is a block of wood/whatever as big as the piece and program that puppy to cut away the superfluous material ... G,D&R -- www.e-woodshop.net Last update: 10/22/08 KarlC@ (the obvious) |
#25
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Loose tenon
On Mon, 14 Dec 2009 16:40:18 -0600, the infamous
" scrawled the following: Any tips on how to repair a tenon that stood a little too close to the router bit, resulting in a loose fit in the mortise? I'm thinking about gluing a thin strip to each side of the tenon and taking another whack at it. Any other ideas will be appreciated. I'd take it down a bit more, then glue on a thicker strip, and then cut to size if it were mine. I'd keep the gluelines away from one another (jus'cuz), though it probably wouldn't matter. -- Every day above ground is a Good Day(tm). ----------- |
#26
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Loose tenon
On Dec 15, 11:00*am, (Scott Lurndal) wrote:
"SonomaProducts.com" TOP POSTING CORRECTED: On Dec 15, 10:13=A0am, (Scott Lurndal) wrote: In 100 years when the glue has turned to powder, pull on the pinned and un-pinned joints. Which is stronger? Answer: Any good glue joint can last centuries. Its life will be shortened by moisture, heat and stress. A lot of modern glues will last centuries, but the glues of yesteryear included animal and milk glues that can be attacked by the right kind of fungus, even if dry. Formulations with fungus sensitivity give rise to powder where one knows there USED to be glue. Wood sap, too, is sometimes food for the beasties; old pine is more sturdy than old oak because the sap is resinous and indigestible. Are modern 'hide glue' formulae made with fungicide? I don't know. |
#27
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Loose tenon
"CW" wrote in message m... I don't think I will be around in 100 years. In any case, I don't care if it falls apart after I'm dead. Being dead, nothing much is going to bother me. The way thinking and things are going in this day and age you may still be liable, even being dead. ;~) |
#28
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Loose tenon
"SonomaProducts.com" wrote in message ... Yes, shiming with veener is pretty standard approach but am I missing something here. Bad loose tenon. I would throw it in the trash and make a new one. Or is it already glued in on one side? I could be mistaken here but I thnk it is a tennon that fits loosely, not a floating tennon. |
#29
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Loose tenon
RonB wrote:
Sounds like you have it figured out. "The sign of a truly good woodworker is his/her ability to effectively repair screw-ups." Hell, if that's true, I'm a master. Oh wait. You said "effectively". Tanus |
#30
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Loose tenon
Micro-balloons can be purchases at hobby stores - airplanes and boats
use it because it is light and not heavy... but strong. It is often used as a filler. Martin GarageWoodworks wrote: On Dec 14, 5:46 pm, "Lew Hodgett" wrote: " wrote: Any tips on how to repair a tenon that stood a little too close to the router bit, resulting in a loose fit in the mortise? Epoxy & microballoons. Make a fairing putty with above, then butter the mortice, shove tenon into place, clamp and remove excess fairing putty. The gates of Hell will rust shut before the joint fails. Lew Where does one purchase microballoons? |
#31
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Loose tenon
Duh. Oops, I think you are correct sir. I just saw loose tenon was
thinking floating tenon. People use both terms right? On Dec 15, 4:44*pm, "Leon" wrote: "SonomaProducts.com" wrote in message ... Yes, shiming with veener is pretty standard approach but am I missing something here. Bad loose tenon. I would throw it in the trash and make a new one. Or is it already glued in on one side? I could be mistaken here but I thnk it is a tennon that fits loosely, not a floating tennon. |
#32
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Loose tenon
On Dec 15, 4:44 pm, "Leon" wrote:
"SonomaProducts.com" wrote in message ... Yes, shiming with veener is pretty standard approach but am I missing something here. Bad loose tenon. I would throw it in the trash and make a new one. Or is it already glued in on one side? I could be mistaken here but I thnk it is a tennon that fits loosely, not a floating tennon. "SonomaProducts.com" wrote in message ... Duh. Oops, I think you are correct sir. I just saw loose tenon was thinking floating tenon. People use both terms right? I am not sure that I have heard "loose tennons" being described as floating tennons until you mentioned it. Therefore now that you have said it, "people" have used both terms. LOL |
#33
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Loose tenon
On Dec 14, 7:17*pm, GarageWoodworks
wrote: Where does one purchase micro balloons? Why, at the Micro Party Store, of course. Get the Helium-filled balloons for a lighter project. Pick up some little birthday candles while you're there. |
#34
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Loose tenon
On Tue, 15 Dec 2009 14:48:39 -0600, the infamous Swingman
scrawled the following: Morris Dovey wrote: Scott Lurndal wrote: Earlier this year FWW did a bit on joint strengths. Loose tenon was supperior to m&t, pinned m&t and most of the other joint types (with half-lap and bridle being the strongest). Hmm. Betcha they didn't test this one: http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/Projects/LLJ/ pinned or unpinned. It's the only joint I don't dare dry fit. Love it! Gonna run right out to the shop and grab my mortise chisel .... Hell, with a CNC, ya don't need no steenking joints! All you need is a block of wood/whatever as big as the piece and program that puppy to cut away the superfluous material ... G,D&R I thought you'd be out there one-handing your Domino by now, Swingy. -- Indifference to evidence: Climate alarmists have become brilliantly adept at changing their terms to suit their convenience. So it's "global warming" when there's a heat wave, but it's "climate change" when there's a cold snap. The earth has registered no discernable warming in the past 10 years: Very well then, they say, natural variability must be the cause. But as for the warming that did occur in the 1980s and 1990s, that plainly was evidence of man-made warming. Am I missing something here? --Brett Stephens, WSJ Opinion 12/09/09 |
#35
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Loose tenon
Larry Jaques wrote:
On Tue, 15 Dec 2009 14:48:39 -0600, the infamous Swingman scrawled the following: Morris Dovey wrote: Scott Lurndal wrote: Earlier this year FWW did a bit on joint strengths. Loose tenon was supperior to m&t, pinned m&t and most of the other joint types (with half-lap and bridle being the strongest). Hmm. Betcha they didn't test this one: http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/Projects/LLJ/ pinned or unpinned. It's the only joint I don't dare dry fit. Love it! Gonna run right out to the shop and grab my mortise chisel .... Hell, with a CNC, ya don't need no steenking joints! All you need is a block of wood/whatever as big as the piece and program that puppy to cut away the superfluous material ... G,D&R I thought you'd be out there one-handing your Domino by now, Swingy. Got that little Multi-Router thingy, don't need no Domino. Besides, I lose my ass at Domino(es) _every_ Saturday night ... leaves a bad taste. g -- Indifference to evidence: Climate alarmists have become brilliantly adept at changing their terms to suit their convenience. So it's "global warming" when there's a heat wave, but it's "climate change" when there's a cold snap. The earth has registered no discernable warming in the past 10 years: Very well then, they say, natural variability must be the cause. But as for the warming that did occur in the 1980s and 1990s, that plainly was evidence of man-made warming. Am I missing something here? --Brett Stephens, WSJ Opinion 12/09/09 Left in on porpoise ... -- www.e-woodshop.net Last update: 10/22/08 KarlC@ (the obvious) |
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