Is it cool, or is it kludgy? A while back someone posted that the holes
were too small for the tenons. Does it do odd angles like the Leigh?

Would you buy it again? Does it make excellent joints?


dave

Well Dave, I almost bought one... At first I did not like it much, then
became more interested and finally decided against it. I have a jig to
drill dowel holes and this beadlock jig seems marginally better. IMHO
there were too many complaints about the tight fit, the premade tennons are
too expensive and the bits to make your own are way too expensive.

that's kinda what was running thru my mind today when I saw the jig at
the store. the tenons are $5.50 for about 3 feet. That would make for
some expensive joinery. I'm trying to figure out how to get away from
making a "real" mortise and tenon, as I don't like the mortising
attachment for the DP. I don't want to get a dedicated one, but that
Leigh jig looks cool, but WAAAAY to pricey unless I win the Lotto.
Since I never play, I'd say my odds of winning are greatly diminished.

dave

Leon wrote:

Well Dave, I almost bought one... At first I did not like it much, then
became more interested and finally decided against it. I have a jig to
drill dowel holes and this beadlock jig seems marginally better. IMHO
there were too many complaints about the tight fit, the premade tennons are
too expensive and the bits to make your own are way too expensive.

"Bay Area Dave" wrote in message
. com...
Is it cool, or is it kludgy? A while back someone posted that the holes
were too small for the tenons. Does it do odd angles like the Leigh?
------------
That was me, back on the 23/10/03. The joints are VERY tight, but as was pointed
out by some helpful folk, it may simply be due to moisture content. I intended
to make some trial joints pretty soon. I shall dry one tennon in a low oven and
another in the microwave. If I cannot achieve a push fit that will release, even
if after a little struggle, I am going to take it up with Trend who market it
over here in the UK.

It will do any angle where the end of the board is at 90 degrees to the face. It
would easily handle a mitre joint but not a compound mitre joint.

Would you buy it again?
------------
Only if cooking the tennons works.

Does it make excellent joints?
------------
Hell they'll never come apart, even without glue. Dry fitting is currently
impossible (if you want to get it apart again), cooking may cure that. As to how
good the joint really is, well, I think I'll have to slice a few test pieces up
before I can be certain that all the glue wasn't wiped down to the bottom of the
mortise when I hammered the tennon in.

The whole idea is good, but, it all depends on the fit of the tennons - which
are a little pricey. I bought the whole kit in one go. So both drills bits are
as specified so something is wrong with the tennon.

You will end up making your own shims, why they couldn't have included a 6mm (or
1/4 inch) shim I don't know. And you'll never get it exactly in the middle. So
you mark the centres as for biscuits and keep the same faces together or you'll
have an irritating couple of thou offset like I have in my CMS bench.

You'll also need a nice one handed clamp that grips very well or the whole thing
goes walkabout when you drill the second set of holes, especially with the big
1/2 inch bit. I was using a G-clamp and they are a two handed pain for this as
you need to line up your registration mark, do-able but painful. I first tried
one of those 'I want muscles like Arnie' spring clamps and it failed miserably.

But it is quick and uses the simplest equipment. I just mess about for fun but I
would imagine if one was trying to earn a crust then this would make a big
difference, assuming cooking the tennons works. I reckon you could do the joint
in about 5 minutes.

As you are interested I shall make the test joints in the next day or two and
let you know the results.

cool. thanks, I'd be most interest in knowing if you can get them glued
in properly. Would a bit of judicious sanding of the tenons make them
slip in easier, or is the shape of them not conducive to a quick sanding
of the interfering surfaces?

dave

gandalf wrote:

"Bay Area Dave" wrote in message
. com...

Is it cool, or is it kludgy? A while back someone posted that the holes
were too small for the tenons. Does it do odd angles like the Leigh?

------------
That was me, back on the 23/10/03. The joints are VERY tight, but as was pointed
out by some helpful folk, it may simply be due to moisture content. I intended
to make some trial joints pretty soon. I shall dry one tennon in a low oven and
another in the microwave. If I cannot achieve a push fit that will release, even
if after a little struggle, I am going to take it up with Trend who market it
over here in the UK.

It will do any angle where the end of the board is at 90 degrees to the face. It
would easily handle a mitre joint but not a compound mitre joint.


Would you buy it again?

------------
Only if cooking the tennons works.

Does it make excellent joints?
------------
Hell they'll never come apart, even without glue. Dry fitting is currently
impossible (if you want to get it apart again), cooking may cure that. As to how
good the joint really is, well, I think I'll have to slice a few test pieces up
before I can be certain that all the glue wasn't wiped down to the bottom of the
mortise when I hammered the tennon in.

The whole idea is good, but, it all depends on the fit of the tennons - which
are a little pricey. I bought the whole kit in one go. So both drills bits are
as specified so something is wrong with the tennon.

You will end up making your own shims, why they couldn't have included a 6mm (or
1/4 inch) shim I don't know. And you'll never get it exactly in the middle. So
you mark the centres as for biscuits and keep the same faces together or you'll
have an irritating couple of thou offset like I have in my CMS bench.

You'll also need a nice one handed clamp that grips very well or the whole thing
goes walkabout when you drill the second set of holes, especially with the big
1/2 inch bit. I was using a G-clamp and they are a two handed pain for this as
you need to line up your registration mark, do-able but painful. I first tried
one of those 'I want muscles like Arnie' spring clamps and it failed miserably.

But it is quick and uses the simplest equipment. I just mess about for fun but I
would imagine if one was trying to earn a crust then this would make a big
difference, assuming cooking the tennons works. I reckon you could do the joint
in about 5 minutes.

As you are interested I shall make the test joints in the next day or two and
let you know the results.

"Bay Area Dave" wrote in message
om...
cool. thanks, I'd be most interest in knowing if you can get them glued
in properly. Would a bit of judicious sanding of the tenons make them
slip in easier, or is the shape of them not conducive to a quick sanding
of the interfering surfaces?

-----------
I think sanding would defeat the objective. You would end up with flat spots and
spend more time than it's worth. I reckon the tenon is too big either as a
result of moisture or the tenon being milled to fit the mortise exactly. If
cooking doesn't help then I will ask Trend just what is going on. They are
helpful and they don't sell rubbish. So there is an answer.

ok. I'll just sit tight 'til you report back!

dave

gandalf wrote:

"Bay Area Dave" wrote in message
om...

cool. thanks, I'd be most interest in knowing if you can get them glued
in properly. Would a bit of judicious sanding of the tenons make them
slip in easier, or is the shape of them not conducive to a quick sanding
of the interfering surfaces?


-----------
I think sanding would defeat the objective. You would end up with flat spots and
spend more time than it's worth. I reckon the tenon is too big either as a
result of moisture or the tenon being milled to fit the mortise exactly. If
cooking doesn't help then I will ask Trend just what is going on. They are
helpful and they don't sell rubbish. So there is an answer.

"Bay Area Dave" wrote in message news:9MRyb.29729

I'm trying to figure out how to get away from
making a "real" mortise and tenon, as I don't like the mortising
attachment for the DP.

I don't see why the router doesn't get used more often for mortising. Its a
snap especially if you bevel the tenon corners.

I don't want to get a dedicated one, but that
Leigh jig looks cool, but WAAAAY to pricey unless I win the Lotto.
Since I never play, I'd say my odds of winning are greatly diminished.

Nah. Your odds of winning are roughly the same whether or not you buy a
ticket.

Brian.

Is it cool, or is it kludgy? A while back someone posted that the holes
were too small for the tenons. Does it do odd angles like the Leigh?

Would you buy it again? Does it make excellent joints?

You might like to take a look at the review of the beadlock he
http://www.onlinetoolreviews.com/reviews/beadlock.htm

--
Regards,

Dean Bielanowski
Editor,
Online Tool Reviews
http://www.onlinetoolreviews.com
------------------------------------------------------------
Latest 5 Reviews:
- Delta Universal Tenoning Jig
- Ryobi Reciprocating Saw
- Infinity Router Bits
- Incra Wonder Fence
- Veritas Jointer Blade Sharpener
------------------------------------------------------------

Bay Area Dave wrote in message .com...

Would you buy it again? Does it make excellent joints?

Dave,

I have one. It does what it says it will do and I would buy it again.
It's not the right tool for every job (it's useless if you want to do
a mortise in the middle of a wide piece) but if you want to put
mortises in 3/4 stock or close to an edge, it's quick, easy and
accurate. I've never had a problem with the tenon stock not fitting.
The key is to drill out each hole twice to ensure it's fully cleaned
out. As for angled mortises, it really depends on whether you have an
adequent area to clamp the jig.

Leon's right about the tenon stock, it wicked over priced for what
your getting. Same with the bits to cut your own stock. But it
doesn't add that much to the cost of a project.

HTH,
Jo

come to think of it, you are right! and look at all the money I saved
by not playing!

dave

Brian wrote:

snip

Nah. Your odds of winning are roughly the same whether or not you buy a
ticket.

Brian.

thanks, Dan.

One question I have after reading and looking at the jig: it won't work
on wider material, say a 3" piece, will it? It appears as the though
the jig is straddling 3/4 or so material.

dave

WoodTurner wrote:

Is it cool, or is it kludgy? A while back someone posted that the holes
were too small for the tenons. Does it do odd angles like the Leigh?

Would you buy it again? Does it make excellent joints?


You might like to take a look at the review of the beadlock he
http://www.onlinetoolreviews.com/reviews/beadlock.htm

--
Regards,

Dean Bielanowski
Editor,
Online Tool Reviews
http://www.onlinetoolreviews.com
------------------------------------------------------------
Latest 5 Reviews:
- Delta Universal Tenoning Jig
- Ryobi Reciprocating Saw
- Infinity Router Bits
- Incra Wonder Fence
- Veritas Jointer Blade Sharpener
------------------------------------------------------------

"Bay Area Dave" wrote in message
om...
thanks, Dan.

One question I have after reading and looking at the jig: it won't work
on wider material, say a 3" piece, will it? It appears as the though
the jig is straddling 3/4 or so material.

-------------
The 3/8" block centres on 3/4" wood and the 1/2" centres on 1" wood, that's
without any shims. For thicker wood you simply insert shims (a couple come with
the kit but you will end up making your own) this allows for just about any
thickness.

Incidentally, I contacted Trend and they agree that the problem I had must be a
function of the tenon (as I had used the drill they supplied), so they are
shipping me some new ones tonight - gratis.

Dave:

In the interest of full disclosure, we (McFeely's) sell the Beadlock System.

Now, the reason we sell it is that after using it to build a table, I really
like it. I built a computer table about two years ago that gave me a perfect
chance to test the jig's capabilities. I have previously used mortise and
tenon joinery for such projects. What impressed me most was the ease of use,
accuracy, and speed. It really is simple to achieve top notch joints
quickly. As others reported, dry-fitting can be a problem, but I used short
pieces of tenon to index everything when doing the fit-up, so removal wasn't
much of a problem. None of the tenon stock was tight enough to cause an
assembly problem. In fact, none of it was a slip fit, but it didn't take a
big hammer to drive it in either. A few gentle taps would seat the tenon
nicely. I suspect that micro-waving the tenon stock would fix any size
issues.I cut a lot of joints, and found jig wear not to be a problem. As far
as versatility is concerned, almost any joint configuration I can think of
is possible - but you may need to make a wedge block to deal with miters.

If you need more information, feel free to call my Technical Director, Darin
Lawrence at 1-800-443-7937.

HTH

Jim Ray, President
McFeely's Square Drive Screws
www.mcfeelys.com


--
email SPAM countermeasures require removal of allnails to reply
"Bay Area Dave" wrote in message
. com...
Is it cool, or is it kludgy? A while back someone posted that the holes
were too small for the tenons. Does it do odd angles like the Leigh?

Would you buy it again? Does it make excellent joints?


dave

Jim,

thanks for the additional input on the Beadlock. One of my top concerns
is that in looking at the jig, it doesn't appear to be able to straddle
a wider piece of wood, say a 3" wide board. The reason I ask is I was
considering using mortise/tenon joinery on a desk I made. The sides were
made up of rails and stiles, with each part being 3" wide and 1" thick.
The modesty panel also was similar frame and panel construction. I
was going to join the 1" edge to the 3" face with a mortise and tenon,
but opted for glue and biscuits along the 20 inch edge. I own a DP
mortiser but frankly think it's a PITA, esp on harder woods. I know
that a dedicated mortiser has more power to deal with hardwoods, but I'm
not eager to get one. The Leigh, at first blush, seems remarkably
versatile, but too pricey for this boy.

Could the Beadlock jig be placed over the 3" wide board?

dave

Jim Ray wrote:

Dave:

In the interest of full disclosure, we (McFeely's) sell the Beadlock System.

Now, the reason we sell it is that after using it to build a table, I really
like it. I built a computer table about two years ago that gave me a perfect
chance to test the jig's capabilities. I have previously used mortise and
tenon joinery for such projects. What impressed me most was the ease of use,
accuracy, and speed. It really is simple to achieve top notch joints
quickly. As others reported, dry-fitting can be a problem, but I used short
pieces of tenon to index everything when doing the fit-up, so removal wasn't
much of a problem. None of the tenon stock was tight enough to cause an
assembly problem. In fact, none of it was a slip fit, but it didn't take a
big hammer to drive it in either. A few gentle taps would seat the tenon
nicely. I suspect that micro-waving the tenon stock would fix any size
issues.I cut a lot of joints, and found jig wear not to be a problem. As far
as versatility is concerned, almost any joint configuration I can think of
is possible - but you may need to make a wedge block to deal with miters.

If you need more information, feel free to call my Technical Director, Darin
Lawrence at 1-800-443-7937.

HTH

Jim Ray, President
McFeely's Square Drive Screws
www.mcfeelys.com


--
email SPAM countermeasures require removal of allnails to reply
"Bay Area Dave" wrote in message
. com...

Is it cool, or is it kludgy? A while back someone posted that the holes
were too small for the tenons. Does it do odd angles like the Leigh?

Would you buy it again? Does it make excellent joints?


dave

Dave:

Unfortunately, I don't know the answer, as I haven't tried using it that
way. I forwarded your post to Darin, who should be running to the shop right
now to do some experimentation. He will psot his findings asap!

Jim Ray, President
McFeely's Square Drive Screws
www.mcfeelys.com


--
email SPAM countermeasures require removal of allnails to reply
"Bay Area Dave" wrote in message
om...
Jim,

thanks for the additional input on the Beadlock. One of my top concerns
is that in looking at the jig, it doesn't appear to be able to straddle
a wider piece of wood, say a 3" wide board. The reason I ask is I was
considering using mortise/tenon joinery on a desk I made. The sides were
made up of rails and stiles, with each part being 3" wide and 1" thick.
The modesty panel also was similar frame and panel construction. I
was going to join the 1" edge to the 3" face with a mortise and tenon,
but opted for glue and biscuits along the 20 inch edge. I own a DP
mortiser but frankly think it's a PITA, esp on harder woods. I know
that a dedicated mortiser has more power to deal with hardwoods, but I'm
not eager to get one. The Leigh, at first blush, seems remarkably
versatile, but too pricey for this boy.

Could the Beadlock jig be placed over the 3" wide board?

dave

Jim Ray wrote:

Dave:

In the interest of full disclosure, we (McFeely's) sell the Beadlock
System.

Now, the reason we sell it is that after using it to build a table, I
really
like it. I built a computer table about two years ago that gave me a
perfect
chance to test the jig's capabilities. I have previously used mortise
and
tenon joinery for such projects. What impressed me most was the ease of
use,
accuracy, and speed. It really is simple to achieve top notch joints
quickly. As others reported, dry-fitting can be a problem, but I used
short
pieces of tenon to index everything when doing the fit-up, so removal
wasn't
much of a problem. None of the tenon stock was tight enough to cause an
assembly problem. In fact, none of it was a slip fit, but it didn't take
a
big hammer to drive it in either. A few gentle taps would seat the tenon
nicely. I suspect that micro-waving the tenon stock would fix any size
issues.I cut a lot of joints, and found jig wear not to be a problem. As
far
as versatility is concerned, almost any joint configuration I can think
of
is possible - but you may need to make a wedge block to deal with
miters.

If you need more information, feel free to call my Technical Director,
Darin
Lawrence at 1-800-443-7937.

HTH

Jim Ray, President
McFeely's Square Drive Screws
www.mcfeelys.com


--
email SPAM countermeasures require removal of allnails to reply
"Bay Area Dave" wrote in message
. com...

Is it cool, or is it kludgy? A while back someone posted that the holes
were too small for the tenons. Does it do odd angles like the Leigh?

Would you buy it again? Does it make excellent joints?


dave

"Bay Area Dave" wrote in message
om...
Jim,

thanks for the additional input on the Beadlock. One of my top concerns
is that in looking at the jig, it doesn't appear to be able to straddle
a wider piece of wood, say a 3" wide board.
----------------
Yes it will. You just need to fit 1" of shims. You could centre it on any
conceivable width, you just might have to get longer bolts that's all. I've used
it on 2" stuff, I had to make a 6mm shim and added that to some of the shims
that came with it to make up the size needed (but I was out by a teeny bit which
is why keeping the registration faces together is a must)

I'm with you on the registration thing after my first attempt to make a
dovetailed drawer with my Incra set up. A call to the experts clued me
in about marking all the drawer parts so that I could register each part
against the router fence for their respective machining. That also
requires some climb cutting, but I can deal with that.

I also key off one set of mating surfaces when biscuit cutting for
proper alignment.

dave

gandalf wrote:

"Bay Area Dave" wrote in message
om...

Jim,

thanks for the additional input on the Beadlock. One of my top concerns
is that in looking at the jig, it doesn't appear to be able to straddle
a wider piece of wood, say a 3" wide board.

----------------
Yes it will. You just need to fit 1" of shims. You could centre it on any
conceivable width, you just might have to get longer bolts that's all. I've used
it on 2" stuff, I had to make a 6mm shim and added that to some of the shims
that came with it to make up the size needed (but I was out by a teeny bit which
is why keeping the registration faces together is a must)

http://www.woodshopdemos.com/beadlk1.htm

Bay Area Dave wrote:

snipped his stuff

"Bay Area Dave" wrote in message
. com...


Would you buy it again? Does it make excellent joints?


You've gotten a ton of responses so far. I bought it early on to avoid
learning to make "real" M&T joints. My experiences have been more aligned w/
Gandalf: easy to bugger up the mortise, since the jig often slipped drilling
the "B" holes. [ Switching to Bessey's and cranking them down has helped. ]
And, the last few dry fits were way too tight. (Don't recall that being the
case when I first used the jig.) I ended up shaving some edges on the
bandsaw to ease the fit.

Would I buy it again? Nope.
Will I continue to use the one I have? Maybe. Rarely. Time to master (a)
M&T's and (b) making my own loose tenon stock.

Dave,
I'm am a little confused by your description of "Straddle a 3" wide board" but I will try to help..
The beadlock will join anything that biscuit joiner can handle. It registers on one face much like a biscuit joiner. For thicker pieces, you add shims to move the bushings away from the the registering fence. Technically, you can even replace the 1/4-20 bolts with longer ones, use a thicker shim, and be able to place the mortise further "inland". Thus, you could use it to form a joint of a 1" apron into the center of a 3" leg.
The jig is well constructed, accurate and affordable. I recall only one jig ever being returned to McFeely's and that involved someone trying to use 1/2 drill through 3/8 diameter holes. ????
You won't regret the purchase of this jig!
Darin Lawrence, Technical Director
McFeely's Square Drive Screws



Pat Barber wrote:

http://www.woodshopdemos.com/beadlk1.htm

Bay Area Dave wrote:

snipped his stuff

Yes, Darin, you DO understand the nature of my question about what width
boards it will work on. The two detailed descriptions of it's operation
on the 'net were provided for me, which I read in total. The
explanations tend to focus on a 3/8 and 1/2 bead for 1/2 and 3/4
material, so naturally I had wondered if it would work like with a
biscuit cutter whereby you could insert a slot into the face of an
infinitely wide board, if desired. I now understand that with longer
bolts, that's doable. At least two users report slippage during
drilling. Must the fixture be tightened unduly tight to prevent movement?

dave

Darin Lawrence wrote:

Dave,
I'm am a little confused by your description of "Straddle a 3" wide
board" but I will try to help..
The beadlock will join anything that biscuit joiner can handle. It
registers on one face much like a biscuit joiner. For thicker pieces,
you add shims to move the bushings away from the the registering fence.
Technically, you can even replace the 1/4-20 bolts with longer ones, use
a thicker shim, and be able to place the mortise further "inland". Thus,
you could use it to form a joint of a 1" apron into the center of a 3"
leg.
The jig is well constructed, accurate and affordable. I recall only one
jig ever being returned to McFeely's and that involved someone trying to
use 1/2 drill through 3/8 diameter holes. ????
You won't regret the purchase of this jig!
Darin Lawrence, Technical Director
McFeely's Square Drive Screws



Pat Barber wrote:

http://www.woodshopdemos.com/beadlk1.htm

Bay Area Dave wrote:

snipped his stuff

If it slips, it's cause You didn't clamp it down. The jig
requires clamping by the operator.

With a minor modification, it can be place ANYWHERE on a board.


Bay Area Dave wrote:

Yes, Darin, you DO understand the nature of my question about what width
boards it will work on. The two detailed descriptions of it's operation
on the 'net were provided for me, which I read in total. The
explanations tend to focus on a 3/8 and 1/2 bead for 1/2 and 3/4
material, so naturally I had wondered if it would work like with a
biscuit cutter whereby you could insert a slot into the face of an
infinitely wide board, if desired. I now understand that with longer
bolts, that's doable. At least two users report slippage during
drilling. Must the fixture be tightened unduly tight to prevent movement?

"Bay Area Dave" wrote in message
om...

Must the fixture be tightened unduly tight to prevent movement?
---------
It must be well clamped. Stuffing it in a vice would do. I wouldn't call the
clamping pressure 'undue', simply adequate to stop the jig moving when the drill
bit tries to wander off down one of the already drilled holes.

I bought a smallish ratchet clamp last night that should work fine. I'll try it
out when my new tenons arrive.

Even if the new tenons are still a tight fit I do not intend to give up on this
contraption. If I have to I will have the thing drilled out to 10mm for the 3/8"
block and 13mm for the 1/2" block, but first I will give the supplier the
opportunity to fix it by making the tenons a smidgen smaller.

thanks for the update.

dave

gandalf wrote:

"Bay Area Dave" wrote in message
om...


Must the fixture be tightened unduly tight to prevent movement?

---------
It must be well clamped. Stuffing it in a vice would do. I wouldn't call the
clamping pressure 'undue', simply adequate to stop the jig moving when the drill
bit tries to wander off down one of the already drilled holes.

I bought a smallish ratchet clamp last night that should work fine. I'll try it
out when my new tenons arrive.

Even if the new tenons are still a tight fit I do not intend to give up on this
contraption. If I have to I will have the thing drilled out to 10mm for the 3/8"
block and 13mm for the 1/2" block, but first I will give the supplier the
opportunity to fix it by making the tenons a smidgen smaller.

Yes, i have it. It works great. I haven't made a regular M&T joint since I
got it. It's not set up as is to do angles but a little creativity will fix
that. Yes, I would buy it again.


"Bay Area Dave" wrote in message
. com...
Is it cool, or is it kludgy? A while back someone posted that the holes
were too small for the tenons. Does it do odd angles like the Leigh?

Would you buy it again? Does it make excellent joints?


dave

I found a couple of things make the beadlock work better. I added lock
washers to the tighening bolts. Held the jig tight and kept the
drilling block from moving. I also run the drill in and out a few
times. which helps keep the tenon material from getting too tight. I
used mine to put together a porch full of screens for a friend. Also,
if you have a router table, buy the cutter to make your own tenon
material.





In article ,
says...
I'm with you on the registration thing after my first attempt to make a
dovetailed drawer with my Incra set up. A call to the experts clued me
in about marking all the drawer parts so that I could register each part
against the router fence for their respective machining. That also
requires some climb cutting, but I can deal with that.

I also key off one set of mating surfaces when biscuit cutting for
proper alignment.

dave

gandalf wrote:

"Bay Area Dave" wrote in message
om...

Jim,

thanks for the additional input on the Beadlock. One of my top concerns
is that in looking at the jig, it doesn't appear to be able to straddle
a wider piece of wood, say a 3" wide board.

----------------
Yes it will. You just need to fit 1" of shims. You could centre it on any
conceivable width, you just might have to get longer bolts that's all. I've used
it on 2" stuff, I had to make a 6mm shim and added that to some of the shims
that came with it to make up the size needed (but I was out by a teeny bit which
is why keeping the registration faces together is a must)