I'm planning to make a small bookcase in oak to match our existing
Scandinavian style dining room furniture. Approx 800 long x 800 high x
235 deep (front to back) - all mm obviously! As I see it I have 2
options for the main carcase construction. Oak veneered ply suitably
edged with solid wood, or solid oak boards. The boards for the base,
sides, top and shelf would be approx 235mm wide by 18mm thick or
possibly 25mm thick for the top.

The last time I made something similar was 2 small occasional tables,
again in oak, with the top s about 380mm square. I made the tops from
3 edge jointed solid oak boards, each about 130mm wide and 18mm thick.
I had tremendous problems with warping of these comparitively narrow
boards during construction even though I alternated the end grain
pattern. Just moving the jointed tops from my garage where I do my
woodwork into the house (central heated) fro a few hours seemed to
make the boards move.

A further complication is that I can only get oak veneered ply in a
2.4m x 1.2m sheet for about GBP40 - 50 and I would only need about
half the sheet, the rest would be waste. I have a local source for
solid oak sawn/planed to my requirements but I've not costed it yet.

Any advice on the best way to proceed?

Thanks in advance

Pete K.

"petek" wrote in message
...
I'm planning to make a small bookcase in oak to match our existing
Scandinavian style dining room furniture. Approx 800 long x 800 high x
235 deep (front to back) - all mm obviously! As I see it I have 2
options for the main carcase construction. Oak veneered ply suitably
edged with solid wood, or solid oak boards. The boards for the base,
sides, top and shelf would be approx 235mm wide by 18mm thick or
possibly 25mm thick for the top.

The last time I made something similar was 2 small occasional tables,
again in oak, with the top s about 380mm square. I made the tops from
3 edge jointed solid oak boards, each about 130mm wide and 18mm thick.
I had tremendous problems with warping of these comparitively narrow
boards during construction even though I alternated the end grain
pattern. Just moving the jointed tops from my garage where I do my
woodwork into the house (central heated) fro a few hours seemed to
make the boards move.

Ok, the Oak veneer plywood woud be a stable idea and work well for a surface
that will not be prone to getting dings.

Solid Oak would be preferred as far a durability.

BUT you mention that your solid oak warped ,,, about 3/4" x 5.5" in inches
IIRC.

I thnk you warping problem was caused from the "3" edge jointed boards. I
am not entirely sure what that means but if you are saying that the edges
were joined to make a wider panel and you jointed/surfaced the top for a
smooth top surface that may very well have been your problem.

Oak will tend to warp if you do not evenly surface the top and bottom. I
suggest you surface the top and bottom faces evenly until you have the
correct thickness. Surfave one side then the other then the first again
and so on.

Properly surfaced on each sface you should no have to worry about end grain
orientation. I work with LOTS of oak and do not worry with grain
orientation when glueing up panels.

Good Luck












A further complication is that I can only get oak veneered ply in a
2.4m x 1.2m sheet for about GBP40 - 50 and I would only need about
half the sheet, the rest would be waste. I have a local source for
solid oak sawn/planed to my requirements but I've not costed it yet.

Any advice on the best way to proceed?

Thanks in advance

Pete K.

petek wrote:

Any advice on the best way to proceed?

I'm a big of fan of plywood, or veneered substrate, for this type of
case work. The dimensional stability is simply worth any perceived
sacrifice, or cachet, of not using solid wood.

Just my tuppence ...

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

On 9 Dec, 22:58, "Leon" wrote:
"petek" wrote in message

...





I'm planning to make a small bookcase in oak to match our existing
Scandinavian style dining room furniture. Approx 800 long x 800 high x
235 deep (front to back) - all mm obviously! As I see it I have 2
options for the main carcase construction. Oak veneered ply suitably
edged with solid wood, or solid oak boards. The boards for the base,
sides, top and shelf would be approx 235mm wide by 18mm thick or
possibly 25mm thick for the top.

The last time I made something similar was 2 small occasional tables,
again in oak, with the top s about 380mm square. I made the tops from
3 edge jointed solid oak boards, each about 130mm wide and 18mm thick.
I had tremendous problems with warping of these comparitively narrow
boards during construction even though I alternated the end grain
pattern. Just moving the jointed tops from my garage where I do my
woodwork into the house (central heated) fro a few hours seemed to
make the boards move.

Ok, the Oak veneer plywood woud be a stable idea and work well for a surface
that will not be prone to getting dings.

Solid Oak would be preferred as far a durability.

BUT you mention that your solid oak warped ,,, *about 3/4" x 5.5" in inches
IIRC.

I thnk you warping problem was caused from the "3" edge jointed boards. *I
am not entirely sure what that means but if you are saying that the edges
were joined to make a wider panel and you jointed/surfaced the top for a
smooth top surface that may very well have been your problem.

Oak will tend to warp if you do not evenly surface the top and bottom. *I
suggest you surface the top and bottom faces evenly until you have the
correct thickness. *Surfave one side then the other *then the first again
and so on.

Properly surfaced on each sface you should no have to worry about end grain
orientation. *I work with LOTS of oak and do not worry with grain
orientation when glueing up panels.

Good Luck





A further complication is that I can only get oak veneered ply in a
2.4m x 1.2m sheet for about GBP40 - 50 and I would only need about
half the sheet, the rest would be waste. I have a local source for
solid oak sawn/planed to my requirements but I've not costed it yet.

Any advice on the best way to proceed?

Thanks in advance

Pete K.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I did indeed join 3 boards, each about 3/4" x 5.5" as you say, to give
a panel about 16.5" wide. I bought the oak planed to thickness and
routed grooves in each to take a plywood tongue. Then I glued and
cramped the 3 boards together. After 24 hrs or so, I removed the
clamps and because the surface was not exactly level I tried to hand
plane it flat. In short, I did not do a very good job, so I took the
jointed panel back to where I bought the oak and asked them to put it
through their thicknesser to remove as little as possible to obtain a
flat surface. They did this but by the time I got them home and left
them in the house for a few hours, the jointed panels had warped a
bit. I took them into the garage (unheated) and left them there for
another few hours and the panels had moved again!

Should I have bought the boards oversize on thickness, jointed them
and then machined them to final thickness? I take it, that you are
recommending they are thicknessed by the same amount each side.

I think I could buy a solid oak board in approx 12" width. Would this
be preferable to edge joining narrower boards?

Regards
Pete K.

"petek" wrote in message
...
On 9 Dec, 22:58, "Leon" wrote:
"petek" wrote in message
Snip


I did indeed join 3 boards, each about 3/4" x 5.5" as you say, to give
a panel about 16.5" wide. I bought the oak planed to thickness and
routed grooves in each to take a plywood tongue. Then I glued and
cramped the 3 boards together. After 24 hrs or so, I removed the
clamps and because the surface was not exactly level I tried to hand
plane it flat. In short, I did not do a very good job, so I took the
jointed panel back to where I bought the oak and asked them to put it
through their thicknesser to remove as little as possible to obtain a
flat surface. They did this but by the time I got them home and left
them in the house for a few hours, the jointed panels had warped a
bit. I took them into the garage (unheated) and left them there for
another few hours and the panels had moved again!

Should I have bought the boards oversize on thickness, jointed them
and then machined them to final thickness? I take it, that you are
recommending they are thicknessed by the same amount each side.

I think I could buy a solid oak board in approx 12" width. Would this
be preferable to edge joining narrower boards?




No, sorry you seem to be on the right track. I misunderstood. I was under
the impression that the bottoms of your glued up panel were still rough cut
ot had not been evenly planed/surfaced top and bottom as I had mentioned.

If you were comfortable with the thickness that you bought and all surfaces
are smooth you should not have problems.
However if your supplier is surfacing one side with a joiner and then
planing/surfacing the opposite side untill the board is the proper thickness
when you buy this too can cause warping. Both shdes should be equally
planed to the desired thickness.

I would not advise buying a wider board, cutting it up and reglueing.





Regards
Pete K.

petek wrote:

I think I could buy a solid oak board in approx 12" width. Would this
be preferable to edge joining narrower boards?

Not at all, and very likely worse, depending upon whether the board is
flat sawn, or quarter or rift sawn (veritical grain), or in between. I
rarely see a 12" wide, flat sawn, board that is perfectly flat and not
subject to cupping with changes in relative humidity.

YMMV ...

What's getting you is that, and depending upon how it is cut off the
log, solid wood is susceptible to movement ACROSS the grain with changes
in relative humidity.

Flat sawn wood generally emphasizes this 'across the grain' dimensional
instability to great extent, while rift or quarter sawn, not so much.
AAMOF, depending upon the grain, the latter may move more in thickness
than across the grain.

The wider the wood, even with glued up panels, the more movement you can
expect as it is cumulative, and the overriding factor is width,
regardless if it is one board, or many glued up. (there are tables for
this that take into account the type of wood, the type of cut, and the
expected change in RH)

DAGS ...

And think veneered wood (plywood) for your casework if you are not an
accomplished cabinet maker with some deal of experience in wood types,
judging grain direction with suitability to mitigate movement, and the
methods to deal with the inherent dimensional instability of wood with
joinery techniques, etc.

It doesn't sound like you quite fit that bill, yet ... but, that said,
being bit in the butt is definitely the way to learn.

There is a world of information out there, and a lot of folks here who
can answer your questions.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

petek wrote:
I'm planning to make a small bookcase in oak to match our existing
Scandinavian style dining room furniture. Approx 800 long x 800 high x
235 deep (front to back) - all mm obviously! As I see it I have 2
options for the main carcase construction. Oak veneered ply suitably
edged with solid wood, or solid oak boards. The boards for the base,
sides, top and shelf would be approx 235mm wide by 18mm thick or
possibly 25mm thick for the top.

The last time I made something similar was 2 small occasional tables,
again in oak, with the top s about 380mm square. I made the tops from
3 edge jointed solid oak boards, each about 130mm wide and 18mm thick.
I had tremendous problems with warping of these comparitively narrow
boards during construction even though I alternated the end grain
pattern. Just moving the jointed tops from my garage where I do my
woodwork into the house (central heated) fro a few hours seemed to
make the boards move.

A further complication is that I can only get oak veneered ply in a
2.4m x 1.2m sheet for about GBP40 - 50 and I would only need about
half the sheet, the rest would be waste. I have a local source for
solid oak sawn/planed to my requirements but I've not costed it yet.

Any advice on the best way to proceed?

Thanks in advance

If you're trying to match Scandinavian style furniture, it's usually veneer
over ply or MDF with a solid edging.


Pete K.

"petek" wrote in message
...
I'm planning to make a small bookcase in oak to match our
existing
Scandinavian style dining room furniture. Approx 800 long x 800
high x
235 deep (front to back) - all mm obviously! As I see it I have
2
options for the main carcase construction. Oak veneered ply
suitably
edged with solid wood, or solid oak boards. The boards for the
base,
sides, top and shelf would be approx 235mm wide by 18mm thick or
possibly 25mm thick for the top.

I'd do the shelves with ply, faced with solid. . . possibly put on
with biscuits or a continuous spline. For the back, it's not that
difficult to edge glue solid material. I just posted a gun
cabinet photo that has 1/4" edge glued "boards" for the back. It
was sturdy as heck and the glue held just fine.


--
Nonny

ELOQUIDIOT (n) A highly educated, sophisticated,
and articulate person who has absolutely no clue
concerning what they are talking about.
The person is typically a media commentator or politician.

"Swingman" wrote
petek wrote:

Any advice on the best way to proceed?

I'm a big of fan of plywood, or veneered substrate, for this type of case
work. The dimensional stability is simply worth any perceived sacrifice,
or cachet, of not using solid wood.

Just my tuppence ...

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)


Same here. This entertainment center is mostly oak plywood with solid oak
in the obvious places.

http://picasaweb.google.com/contrari...98146457369778

Max

Max wrote:

Same here. This entertainment center is mostly oak plywood with solid
oak in the obvious places.

http://picasaweb.google.com/contrari...98146457369778

Beautiful! ... like the "cloud lift" design on the rails.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

"Swingman" wrote in message
...
Max wrote:

Same here. This entertainment center is mostly oak plywood with solid
oak in the obvious places.

http://picasaweb.google.com/contrari...98146457369778

Beautiful! ... like the "cloud lift" design on the rails.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)


Thank you , Sir.

Max

Max wrote:
"Swingman" wrote
petek wrote:

Any advice on the best way to proceed?

I'm a big of fan of plywood, or veneered substrate, for this type of
case work. The dimensional stability is simply worth any perceived
sacrifice, or cachet, of not using solid wood.

Just my tuppence ...

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)


Same here. This entertainment center is mostly oak plywood with solid
oak in the obvious places.

http://picasaweb.google.com/contrari...98146457369778


Max

Great looking project, Max!

That looks like one of those hernia TV's. Just when you custom build
something really nice, they go and invent big wide screen TVs.

- Doug

"petek" wrote:
--------------------------------------
Should I have bought the boards oversize on thickness, jointed them
and then machined them to final thickness? I take it, that you are
recommending they are thicknessed by the same amount each side.
--------------------------------------------

SFWIW:

I'm no genius when it comes to woodworking but where possible, try to
practice CYA.

When making a top, I start with about 13/16"-7/8" thick stock, 3"-5"
wide and jointed with a T/S.

Use these pieces to glue-up top.

Leave the glue-up in the clamps for a couple of days, then head to the
drum sanding shop and let them bring the top to 3/4" finish size by
sanding on alternate sides with each pass.

Learned a long time ago not to rush things.

YMMV

Have fun.

Lew

"Doug Winterburn" wrote in message
...

Great looking project, Max!

That looks like one of those hernia TV's. Just when you custom build
something really nice, they go and invent big wide screen TVs.

- Doug

Yes, does look good Max, I did one with the South West persuasion about 10
years ago for the 35" tube TV.

BTY Doug A 37" wide screed fits pretty well in place of a 35" 5to4 ration
TV. I had to re do an entertainment system a couple of years to fit in a
37" in place of the big ole 35" tube type I had fitted about 14 years prior.

"Doug Winterburn" wrote in message
...
Max wrote:
"Swingman" wrote
petek wrote:

Any advice on the best way to proceed?

I'm a big of fan of plywood, or veneered substrate, for this type of
case work. The dimensional stability is simply worth any perceived
sacrifice, or cachet, of not using solid wood.

Just my tuppence ...

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)


Same here. This entertainment center is mostly oak plywood with solid
oak in the obvious places.

http://picasaweb.google.com/contrari...98146457369778
Max

Great looking project, Max!

That looks like one of those hernia TV's. Just when you custom build
something really nice, they go and invent big wide screen TVs.

- Doug


That beast weighed a ton. Here's the re-do of the center to accommodate the
52" replacement.
http://picasaweb.google.com/contrari...57645484512466
or:
http://tinyurl.com/ylp9qjt

Max

Max wrote:
"Doug Winterburn" wrote in message
...
Max wrote:
"Swingman" wrote
petek wrote:

Any advice on the best way to proceed?

I'm a big of fan of plywood, or veneered substrate, for this type of
case work. The dimensional stability is simply worth any perceived
sacrifice, or cachet, of not using solid wood.

Just my tuppence ...

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)


Same here. This entertainment center is mostly oak plywood with
solid oak in the obvious places.

http://picasaweb.google.com/contrari...98146457369778
Max

Great looking project, Max!

That looks like one of those hernia TV's. Just when you custom build
something really nice, they go and invent big wide screen TVs.

- Doug


That beast weighed a ton. Here's the re-do of the center to accommodate
the 52" replacement.
http://picasaweb.google.com/contrari...57645484512466

or:
http://tinyurl.com/ylp9qjt

Max

The old cabinet stretcher trick - clever :-)

"Swingman" wrote in message
...
Max wrote:

Same here. This entertainment center is mostly oak plywood with solid
oak in the obvious places.

http://picasaweb.google.com/contrari...98146457369778

Beautiful! ... like the "cloud lift" design on the rails.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)


I did a hall table with the same motif.
http://picasaweb.google.com/contrari...35817234591538
or
http://tinyurl.com/yjptoyv

Max

Max wrote:
"Swingman" wrote in message
...
Max wrote:

Same here. This entertainment center is mostly oak plywood with
solid oak in the obvious places.

http://picasaweb.google.com/contrari...98146457369778


Beautiful! ... like the "cloud lift" design on the rails.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)


I did a hall table with the same motif.
http://picasaweb.google.com/contrari...35817234591538

or
http://tinyurl.com/yjptoyv

Really like your stuff ... instead of Greene & Greene's use of the cloud
lift motif, your's has a definite SouthWest flavor to my eye. Hope that
doesn't offend you, but I really like it.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

"Swingman" wrote in message
...
Max wrote:
"Swingman" wrote in message
...
Max wrote:

Same here. This entertainment center is mostly oak plywood with solid
oak in the obvious places.

http://picasaweb.google.com/contrari...98146457369778

Beautiful! ... like the "cloud lift" design on the rails.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)


I did a hall table with the same motif.
http://picasaweb.google.com/contrari...35817234591538
or
http://tinyurl.com/yjptoyv

Really like your stuff ... instead of Greene & Greene's use of the cloud
lift motif, your's has a definite SouthWest flavor to my eye. Hope that
doesn't offend you, but I really like it.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)


We were looking for an entertainment center to match our den furniture (from
Autumn Woods in Las Cruces, NM) which is definitely Southwestern. We found
one that was acceptable but the price was a shocker. So..............
I spent about $300 for the entertainment center and the table and mirror
were made from some Ponderosa Pine that I had left over from other projects.
At the time, the center was my most ambitious project and it gave me
confidence to attempt more involved pursuits.
Thanks for the compliment, it's really appreciated.

Max

On Wed, 09 Dec 2009 18:38:30 -0600, the infamous Swingman
scrawled the following:

Max wrote:

Same here. This entertainment center is mostly oak plywood with solid
oak in the obvious places.

http://picasaweb.google.com/contrari...98146457369778

Beautiful! ... like the "cloud lift" design on the rails.

Huh? That looks more like a Southwestern style to me.

--
To know what you prefer instead of humbly saying Amen
to what the world tells you you ought to prefer,
is to have kept your soul alive.
-- Robert Louis Stevenson

On Wed, 9 Dec 2009 21:27:12 -0700, the infamous "Max"
scrawled the following:

That beast weighed a ton. Here's the re-do of the center to accommodate the
52" replacement.
http://picasaweb.google.com/contrari...57645484512466
or:
http://tinyurl.com/ylp9qjt

You redid that entire center cabinet, didn't you? BTW, do you call
that Southwestern or G&G? It doesn't have the (how do the yuppies say
it?) "organic liquidity" of G&G to me.

(OL = curves)

--
To know what you prefer instead of humbly saying Amen
to what the world tells you you ought to prefer,
is to have kept your soul alive.
-- Robert Louis Stevenson

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 9 Dec 2009 21:27:12 -0700, the infamous "Max"
scrawled the following:

That beast weighed a ton. Here's the re-do of the center to accommodate
the
52" replacement.
http://picasaweb.google.com/contrari...57645484512466
or:
http://tinyurl.com/ylp9qjt

You redid that entire center cabinet, didn't you? BTW, do you call
that Southwestern or G&G? It doesn't have the (how do the yuppies say
it?) "organic liquidity" of G&G to me.

(OL = curves)

--
To know what you prefer instead of humbly saying Amen
to what the world tells you you ought to prefer,
is to have kept your soul alive.
-- Robert Louis Stevenson


Yep. The center section had to be much wider for the new TV.
And the "design" is an attempt at Southwestern to match our den furniture
which is definitely SW.
(I can post some pictures of the furniture if you're interested)

Max