Home |
Search |
Today's Posts |
|
Woodworking (rec.woodworking) Discussion forum covering all aspects of working with wood. All levels of expertise are encouraged to particiapte. |
Reply |
|
LinkBack | Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#1
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
New guard designs
After reading the "Oops" thread I saw in American Woodworker magazine that
there is a series of new blade guards coming out for table saws. They incopororate a riving knife and some even have dust collection capability. One of the criteria is for the guard to be easily removed and replaced too, an incentive to use it. It got me thinking, after reading about an accident, if you had a better design, would you put the guard back on? Yes, I would. I use the present guard too, most of the time. |
#2
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
New guard designs
Ed Pawlowski wrote:
It got me thinking, after reading about an accident, if you had a better design, would you put the guard back on? Yes, I would. I use the present guard too, most of the time. Yeah, that cracks me up. I scanned through that thread, and maybe I missed it. I saw a lot of people saying they, "learned their lesson," but none who the put their guards back on. :-) -- -MIKE- "Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life" --Elvin Jones (1927-2004) -- http://mikedrums.com ---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply |
#3
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
New guard designs
"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message ... After reading the "Oops" thread I saw in American Woodworker magazine that there is a series of new blade guards coming out for table saws. They incopororate a riving knife and some even have dust collection capability. One of the criteria is for the guard to be easily removed and replaced too, an incentive to use it. It got me thinking, after reading about an accident, if you had a better design, would you put the guard back on? Yes, I would. I use the present guard too, most of the time. Ed, are those after market or only being offered with new saws? The problem with most guards is that they get in the way of using proper procedure in many set ups. Tough with most to cut 1/2" and shorter pieces and narrow pieces. In some cases more likely to cause kick back if a small piece of cross cut wood gets caught between the guard and the blade. |
#4
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
New guard designs
"-MIKE-" wrote in message
... Ed Pawlowski wrote: It got me thinking, after reading about an accident, if you had a better design, would you put the guard back on? Yes, I would. I use the present guard too, most of the time. Yeah, that cracks me up. I scanned through that thread, and maybe I missed it. I saw a lot of people saying they, "learned their lesson," but none who the put their guards back on. :-) ---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply Some of us have managed to cut ourselves (or worse) with the guard *on*. There is no end to a human beings capacity for stupid behaviour, ........ of which I'm a typical example. diggerop |
#5
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
New guard designs
Leon wrote:
"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message ... After reading the "Oops" thread I saw in American Woodworker magazine that there is a series of new blade guards coming out for table saws. They incopororate a riving knife and some even have dust collection capability. One of the criteria is for the guard to be easily removed and replaced too, an incentive to use it. It got me thinking, after reading about an accident, if you had a better design, would you put the guard back on? Yes, I would. I use the present guard too, most of the time. Ed, are those after market or only being offered with new saws? The problem with most guards is that they get in the way of using proper procedure in many set ups. Tough with most to cut 1/2" and shorter pieces and narrow pieces. In some cases more likely to cause kick back if a small piece of cross cut wood gets caught between the guard and the blade. Rather difficult to use many kinds of jig with them as well. |
#6
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
New guard designs
diggerop wrote:
Some of us have managed to cut ourselves (or worse) with the guard *on*. There is no end to a human beings capacity for stupid behaviour, ........ of which I'm a typical example. diggerop I agree that our stupidness can conquer any attempt we take to make things safe. However, I saw a lot of people talking about how kickback pulled their finger into the blade and the guard would've prevented that. I also agree that making them easier to put on/take off would help matters. I'm thinking of using wingnut fasteners for the back end of mine, and a cam-nut for the front end. Seems like having to dig up the proper wrench can be the deterrent that results in a trip to the ER. -- -MIKE- "Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life" --Elvin Jones (1927-2004) -- http://mikedrums.com ---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply |
#7
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
New guard designs
Ed Pawlowski wrote:
After reading the "Oops" thread I saw in American Woodworker magazine that there is a series of new blade guards coming out for table saws. They incopororate a riving knife and some even have dust collection capability. One of the criteria is for the guard to be easily removed and replaced too, an incentive to use it. It got me thinking, after reading about an accident, if you had a better design, would you put the guard back on? Yes, I would. I use the present guard too, most of the time. Norm always began his show with the "use proper safety equipment" bit. I never saw him with a guard on his TS, nor do I recall him ever mentioning that he removed it for clarity of his demonstration. I installed the guard on my Delta hybrid when I got it three years ago. It was removed in the first week and hasn't been back on since. I try to think through every cut in advance of turning on the saw, asking myself how the sumbitch can hurt me and making sure I handle the piece accordingly. Larry |
#8
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
New guard designs
"-MIKE-" wrote in message
... However, I saw a lot of people talking about how kickback pulled their finger into the blade and the guard would've prevented that. Just out of interest, you say "I saw a lot of people talking about how kickback pulled their finger into the blade." I didn't. Makes me wonder if my newsserver is showing all posts. Maybe I'd better contact my ISP and complain. diggerop |
#9
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
New guard designs
Leon said:
The problem with most guards is that they get in the way of using proper procedure in many set ups. Tough with most to cut 1/2" and shorter pieces and narrow pieces. In some cases more likely to cause kick back if a small piece of cross cut wood gets caught between the guard and the blade. Precisely my dilemma. And they are generally a floppy, poorly designed thing that reeks of cheapest design possible. A pain to install and remove. An overhead makes far more sense, and yet I've not bothered to build or buy one either. Complacency is the death of many a digit. Greg G. |
#10
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
New guard designs
diggerop wrote:
"-MIKE-" wrote in message ... However, I saw a lot of people talking about how kickback pulled their finger into the blade and the guard would've prevented that. Just out of interest, you say "I saw a lot of people talking about how kickback pulled their finger into the blade." I didn't. Makes me wonder if my newsserver is showing all posts. Maybe I'd better contact my ISP and complain. diggerop I'm sure your reader/server is fine. -- -MIKE- "Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life" --Elvin Jones (1927-2004) -- http://mikedrums.com ---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply |
#11
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
New guard designs
Complacency is the death of many a digit.
Greg G. Exactly. That's the same with any power tool or any tool for that matter. "I don't need to 'call before I dig.' I remember where they buried that electric line." :-) -- -MIKE- "Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life" --Elvin Jones (1927-2004) -- http://mikedrums.com ---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply |
#12
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
New guard designs
diggerop said:
"-MIKE-" wrote in message ... However, I saw a lot of people talking about how kickback pulled their finger into the blade and the guard would've prevented that. Just out of interest, you say "I saw a lot of people talking about how kickback pulled their finger into the blade." I didn't. Makes me wonder if my newsserver is showing all posts. Maybe I'd better contact my ISP and complain. Funny. My observation is that if kickback is pulling your finger into the blade, you're putting your fingers too far behind the blade to begin with. I never touch the wood at the rear of the blade. I use homemade push blocks that not only push the wood, but press it against the table top, yet leave my hands clear. An old 2x4 can be fashioned fairly quickly into something usable if need be. I quickly discovered that the classic "push-stick" design included with the instruction manual with many saws was totally inadequate for holding the wood against the saw table. I noticed that reaction wood or pressing too far right of center would cause the blade to grab at the wood being cut. I do use a splitter wherever I can, however. Even the homemade zero clearance inserts I use have a removable splitter pin carefully adjusted to prevent the wood from contacting the rear of the blade. I have several lengths which can be used. Not perfect, but works so far. http://webpages.charter.net/videodoc...awInserts1.jpg FWIW, Greg G. |
#13
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
New guard designs
"Leon" wrote in message ... "Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message ... After reading the "Oops" thread I saw in American Woodworker magazine that there is a series of new blade guards coming out for table saws. They incopororate a riving knife and some even have dust collection capability. One of the criteria is for the guard to be easily removed and replaced too, an incentive to use it. It got me thinking, after reading about an accident, if you had a better design, would you put the guard back on? Yes, I would. I use the present guard too, most of the time. Ed, are those after market or only being offered with new saws? The problem with most guards is that they get in the way of using proper procedure in many set ups. Tough with most to cut 1/2" and shorter pieces and narrow pieces. In some cases more likely to cause kick back if a small piece of cross cut wood gets caught between the guard and the blade. New saws, Leon. I don't think they are easily adapted because of the riving knife requirement. The fact that it is easily removed and replaced takes away the argument that it does not work well with jigs so you leave it off all the time. Although it still may not work with jigs. I've only seen a couple of photos in the magazine. |
#14
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
New guard designs
"Greg G." wrote in message ... Leon said: The problem with most guards is that they get in the way of using proper procedure in many set ups. Tough with most to cut 1/2" and shorter pieces and narrow pieces. In some cases more likely to cause kick back if a small piece of cross cut wood gets caught between the guard and the blade. Precisely my dilemma. And they are generally a floppy, poorly designed thing that reeks of cheapest design possible. A pain to install and remove. An overhead makes far more sense, and yet I've not bothered to build or buy one either. Complacency is the death of many a digit. Greg G. Evidently that complaint was noticed. The new requirement is that the guard comes off and is replaced easily so after that dado cut, no excuses when it takes seconds to replace it. I keep my guard in place, but when I do have to take it off, it does not go back or right away. With a snap fit it would. |
#15
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
New guard designs RAS
Speaking of mangled digits, I was at a friend's house a few years
back. He knew my love of woodworking and took me to the basement to show me his shop. Along the wall was a Sears RAS and I commented to him that while I had used mine frequently, that it always scared me for some reason. I told him that I'd learned to pull the truck out using my body and not my arm: I would lock my elbow and wrist, then use the weight of my body to pull the truck out and across the wood. I explained that this seemed to help prevent the blade from binding and "climbing" across a thinner piece. He smiled and held up his left thumb, or what was left of it, to show me he understood the issue. -- Nonny What does it mean when drool runs out of both sides of a drunken Congressman's mouth? The floor is level. |
#16
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
New guard designs
Ed Pawlowski said:
"Greg G." wrote in message .. . Leon said: The problem with most guards is that they get in the way of using proper procedure in many set ups. Tough with most to cut 1/2" and shorter pieces and narrow pieces. In some cases more likely to cause kick back if a small piece of cross cut wood gets caught between the guard and the blade. Precisely my dilemma. And they are generally a floppy, poorly designed thing that reeks of cheapest design possible. A pain to install and remove. An overhead makes far more sense, and yet I've not bothered to build or buy one either. Complacency is the death of many a digit. Greg G. Evidently that complaint was noticed. The new requirement is that the guard comes off and is replaced easily so after that dado cut, no excuses when it takes seconds to replace it. I keep my guard in place, but when I do have to take it off, it does not go back or right away. With a snap fit it would. Hi, Ed. An example of market forces working, the entry into the market of saws like the Saw Stop, PM2000, etc. have forced companies like Delta to rethink their views of what will sell. I also noticed that after a brief stint in China, they are now hawking the new Delta Unisaw, "assembled" in Tennessee, with all the bells and whistles, safety wise, that I complained to Frank about two or three years ago. The blowback must have been considerable from the move overseas. I have no doubt the castings are made in China, but every little bit helps, eh? I've not seen it in person because most of the venders in this area stopped selling Delta after the B&D assimilation, but it looks sharp. A real moving riving knife, venier tilt, better blade guard. Unfortunately I can't afford but what I have... The cheap import benchtop saws are still problematic, however, and much of what is used on construction sites. Greg G. |
#17
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
New guard designs
"Greg G." wrote in message
... diggerop said: "-MIKE-" wrote in message ... However, I saw a lot of people talking about how kickback pulled their finger into the blade and the guard would've prevented that. Just out of interest, you say "I saw a lot of people talking about how kickback pulled their finger into the blade." I didn't. Makes me wonder if my newsserver is showing all posts. Maybe I'd better contact my ISP and complain. Funny. My observation is that if kickback is pulling your finger into the blade, you're putting your fingers too far behind the blade to begin with. I never touch the wood at the rear of the blade. I use homemade push blocks that not only push the wood, but press it against the table top, yet leave my hands clear. An old 2x4 can be fashioned fairly quickly into something usable if need be. I quickly discovered that the classic "push-stick" design included with the instruction manual with many saws was totally inadequate for holding the wood against the saw table. I noticed that reaction wood or pressing too far right of center would cause the blade to grab at the wood being cut. Sounds like good sense to me. I do use a splitter wherever I can, however. Even the homemade zero clearance inserts I use have a removable splitter pin carefully adjusted to prevent the wood from contacting the rear of the blade. I have several lengths which can be used. Not perfect, but works so far. I don't use zero clearance inserts, but like you, use the splitter whenever I can. My original TS which I still use for its absolute accuracy and wide range of options has a splitter and a guard that can be removed/replaced in seconds. My cheap 12' chinese ripsaw has a guard that comes off/ goes on in seconds. The splitter, which rises & falls and tilts with the blade, is also independently adjustable for height, which means when ripping beyond the 4" depth of cut of the blade and flipping over for a second cut to splt the piece in two, the splitter can remain in place, - just adjusted a fraction lower than the blade height. To diverge a little, that saw has given me much pause for thought. Had I not already had a TS that did most of what I needed, I wouldn't have considered it. Too cheap. I did end up buying it on the basis that I really only needed it to split 7" x2" boards into 7 x 3/4 or 7 x 1/2. I was prepared for a fair amount of wastage and cleanup effort to achieve that , seeing as how it was so cheap. Had low expectations. The reality is, that it is accurate. Dead accurate. Set it to 90deg on the dial, - that's what you get. set it to 45 deg, cut two mitres on adjoining faces and a square across the two faces shows no daylight showing anywhere. Even the imitation Biesmeyer fence sits perfectly parallel to the blade. Locks securely. Blade cuts beautifully, good enough faces to glue.It also came with two extension tables, plus a roller table and dust extraction ports top and bottom. The whole thing cost me AUD$650 with 3 years warranty. So, am I trying for a gloat? No. I'm concerned. I live in what is arguably the most expensive nation on earth to purchase tools. Yet the Chinese produced this thing, it was shipped to Oz, went through a distributor and then a retailer (whose prices are generally 25% to 50% higher than you pay for exactly the same thing in the US/Canada) before it got to me. What concerns me, is what does that mean for the future of manufacturing and associated employment in the western world. How do we compete? We've always done that with quality. But if China emulates the Japanese and South Koreans in that regard, delivering quality, as they seem to be getting better at year by year, what then? I don't much like the answer I come up with. diggerop |
#18
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
New guard designs
"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in
: After reading the "Oops" thread I saw in American Woodworker magazine that there is a series of new blade guards coming out for table saws. They incopororate a riving knife and some even have dust collection capability. One of the criteria is for the guard to be easily removed and replaced too, an incentive to use it. It got me thinking, after reading about an accident, if you had a better design, would you put the guard back on? Yes, I would. I use the present guard too, most of the time. I would definately use the guard if it would stay out of the way. The trouble I have with mine is it's so fiddly to adjust it can actually make things worse. The work piece starts to bind against the fence and guard requiring more force to push through the blade, and we all know that's a bad thing. Plus, if I take it off for a non-through cut, there's no positive registration to get it back where it needs to be. The design is letting me down. Puckdropper -- Is it user error, or bad design? |
#19
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
New guard designs
" wrote in
: Norm always began his show with the "use proper safety equipment" bit. I never saw him with a guard on his TS, nor do I recall him ever mentioning that he removed it for clarity of his demonstration. I installed the guard on my Delta hybrid when I got it three years ago. It was removed in the first week and hasn't been back on since. I try to think through every cut in advance of turning on the saw, asking myself how the sumbitch can hurt me and making sure I handle the piece accordingly. Larry He mentioned it during the Table Saw series. He basically said they took the guard off for TV clairity, but it was your choice whether to use the guard or not. (This is from my memory. For a direct word for word quote, contact LRod.) Puckdropper -- Is it human error or bad design? |
#20
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
New guard designs
diggerop said:
.... So, am I trying for a gloat? No. I'm concerned. I live in what is arguably the most expensive nation on earth to purchase tools. Yet the Chinese produced this thing, it was shipped to Oz, went through a distributor and then a retailer (whose prices are generally 25% to 50% higher than you pay for exactly the same thing in the US/Canada) before it got to me. What concerns me, is what does that mean for the future of manufacturing and associated employment in the western world. How do we compete? We've always done that with quality. But if China emulates the Japanese and South Koreans in that regard, delivering quality, as they seem to be getting better at year by year, what then? I don't much like the answer I come up with. diggerop They ARE improving - just like all who came before. When I was young, you couldn't buy a foreign product unless it was liquor or cheese. Used to special order transmission parts from Flint and Saginaw, MI. Electronics parts from Illinois and Texas. I watched as the Japanese, then Taiwan and S. Korea, and now China took over the electronics, steel, textiles, and automotive industries. Fiat and MG had a small presence, and when those goofy looking Toyota's showed up, people laughed. I bought two off the back of a car lot for $200 ea., rebuilt the engines, and gave them to my sisters. One ran for 300,000 miles before the rear end fell out. The other one got wrecked. But the Japanese finally got the styling thing down and that was the end of the US domination of the car industry. We built up our own standards of living internally and were fairly isolationist until the "new world economy" hit. Developing nations should do the same, for their own sakes and ours, but what we have are profiteers who move in to exploit cheap labor where little passes down to workers and we get floods of cheap products we cannot compete with. Those at the top get their cut, and the rest of us are ****ed. The end result is what we are seeing today. Hoarding, a big grab for what is left through any means possible, and the rest of us can go to hell. And until all participating countries are equalized, it's gonna be really tough in the supposed Western World (and Oz). ;-) So I don't much like the answer I see either. FWIW, Greg G. |
#21
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
New guard designs
"J. Clarke" wrote in message ... Ed, are those after market or only being offered with new saws? The problem with most guards is that they get in the way of using proper procedure in many set ups. Tough with most to cut 1/2" and shorter pieces and narrow pieces. In some cases more likely to cause kick back if a small piece of cross cut wood gets caught between the guard and the blade. Rather difficult to use many kinds of jig with them as well. Absolutely and totally agree. |
#22
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
New guard designs
"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message ... New saws, Leon. I don't think they are easily adapted because of the riving knife requirement. The fact that it is easily removed and replaced takes away the argument that it does not work well with jigs so you leave it off all the time. Although it still may not work with jigs. I've only seen a couple of photos in the magazine. Darn,,,, I was hoping you were going to say aftermarket. I have seen the new ones, IIRC SawStop was probably the first, maybe the Powermatic 2000, and Jet has one and Delta has the newer design on the current Unisaw. IIRC the guards are still basically the same idea but better built, read that as what appears to be more impressive engeneering rather than the stamped and folded variety that came with most saws in the past. AND they are quite easy to remove and replace. |
#23
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
New guard designs
"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message ... After reading the "Oops" thread I saw in American Woodworker magazine that there is a series of new blade guards coming out for table saws. They incopororate a riving knife and some even have dust collection capability. One of the criteria is for the guard to be easily removed and replaced too, an incentive to use it. It got me thinking, after reading about an accident, if you had a better design, would you put the guard back on? No. |
#24
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
New guard designs
On Sun, 15 Nov 2009 12:15:34 -0600, "
wrote: Norm always began his show with the "use proper safety equipment" bit. I never saw him with a guard on his TS, nor do I recall him ever mentioning that he removed it for clarity of his demonstration. Actually, all his shows comment right at the end that guards are removed for photographic purposes. |
#25
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
New guard designs
"diggerop" toobusy@themoment wrote in message ... "Greg G." wrote in message ... diggerop said: "-MIKE-" wrote in message ... However, I saw a lot of people talking about how kickback pulled their finger into the blade and the guard would've prevented that. Just out of interest, you say "I saw a lot of people talking about how kickback pulled their finger into the blade." I didn't. Makes me wonder if my newsserver is showing all posts. Maybe I'd better contact my ISP and complain. Funny. My observation is that if kickback is pulling your finger into the blade, you're putting your fingers too far behind the blade to begin with. I never touch the wood at the rear of the blade. I use homemade push blocks that not only push the wood, but press it against the table top, yet leave my hands clear. An old 2x4 can be fashioned fairly quickly into something usable if need be. I quickly discovered that the classic "push-stick" design included with the instruction manual with many saws was totally inadequate for holding the wood against the saw table. I noticed that reaction wood or pressing too far right of center would cause the blade to grab at the wood being cut. Sounds like good sense to me. I do use a splitter wherever I can, however. Even the homemade zero clearance inserts I use have a removable splitter pin carefully adjusted to prevent the wood from contacting the rear of the blade. I have several lengths which can be used. Not perfect, but works so far. I don't use zero clearance inserts, but like you, use the splitter whenever I can. My original TS which I still use for its absolute accuracy and wide range of options has a splitter and a guard that can be removed/replaced in seconds. My cheap 12' chinese ripsaw has a guard that comes off/ goes on in seconds. The splitter, which rises & falls and tilts with the blade, is also independently adjustable for height, which means when ripping beyond the 4" depth of cut of the blade and flipping over for a second cut to splt the piece in two, the splitter can remain in place, - just adjusted a fraction lower than the blade height. To diverge a little, that saw has given me much pause for thought. Had I not already had a TS that did most of what I needed, I wouldn't have considered it. Too cheap. I did end up buying it on the basis that I really only needed it to split 7" x2" boards into 7 x 3/4 or 7 x 1/2. I was prepared for a fair amount of wastage and cleanup effort to achieve that , seeing as how it was so cheap. Had low expectations. The reality is, that it is accurate. Dead accurate. Set it to 90deg on the dial, - that's what you get. set it to 45 deg, cut two mitres on adjoining faces and a square across the two faces shows no daylight showing anywhere. Even the imitation Biesmeyer fence sits perfectly parallel to the blade. Locks securely. Blade cuts beautifully, good enough faces to glue.It also came with two extension tables, plus a roller table and dust extraction ports top and bottom. The whole thing cost me AUD$650 with 3 years warranty. So, am I trying for a gloat? No. I'm concerned. I live in what is arguably the most expensive nation on earth to purchase tools. Yet the Chinese produced this thing, it was shipped to Oz, went through a distributor and then a retailer (whose prices are generally 25% to 50% higher than you pay for exactly the same thing in the US/Canada) before it got to me. What concerns me, is what does that mean for the future of manufacturing and associated employment in the western world. How do we compete? We've always done that with quality. But if China emulates the Japanese and South Koreans in that regard, delivering quality, as they seem to be getting better at year by year, what then? I don't much like the answer I come up with. Back when Japanese products were considered junk (in the US), I lived in Japan. You could buy products there that were as good, if not better, than anything made anywhere. Of course, they also made cheap crap. The cheap crap is what the American importers were buying as it had the best profit margin on resale. No one would pay near US prices for things that had always had the reputation as junk. As people got more used to Japanese made items, the importers started bringing in higher quality (and higher priced) products as people were becoming willing to pay for it. I would bet that China is at the same point now. Quality products made in China probably are available but the importers buying it go for the low end. Remember, Americans have been in China teaching them manufacturing for years. |
#26
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
New guard designs
On Sun, 15 Nov 2009 12:36:23 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
After reading the "Oops" thread I saw in American Woodworker magazine that there is a series of new blade guards coming out for table saws. They incopororate a riving knife and some even have dust collection capability. One of the criteria is for the guard to be easily removed and replaced too, an incentive to use it. It got me thinking, after reading about an accident, if you had a better design, would you put the guard back on? Yes, I would. I use the present guard too, most of the time. The problem of course is that some operations can't be done with the guard in place unless you have one of those fancy aftermarket overhead guards. For example, when I said I was ripping a piece of wood to 2.5", that was somewhat simplified. What I was really doing was ripping 1/4" off of a 3" wide board. With the guard in place, the 1/4" offcut, which was what I wanted, would have fit inside the guard and probably been chewed to bits by the blade. A riving knife OTOH would be very nice if there was one available for my saw, but there isn't. I do use a splitter but that has to be removed in order to make a cut that doesn't go all the way through. Since my accident, I have been considering some way to suspend my guard an inch above the table. With the strange design of my ancient Delta it just might be doable. Damm it's hard to type with one thumb wrapped up like a mummy. You wouldn't believe how many times I've hit backspace to write this! -- Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw |
#27
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
New guard designs
Larry
I believe this was mentioned before but the product at this web page http://www.microjig.com/ is very useful in the situation you described. I bought two of these when I got back into woodworking after a 30 year haitus and find them to be one of the most useful safety tools in the shop. They allow you to keep constant downward pressure on a rip cut all the way to the completion of the cut. Russ "Larry Blanchard" wrote in message ... On Sun, 15 Nov 2009 12:36:23 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote: After reading the "Oops" thread I saw in American Woodworker magazine that there is a series of new blade guards coming out for table saws. They incopororate a riving knife and some even have dust collection capability. One of the criteria is for the guard to be easily removed and replaced too, an incentive to use it. It got me thinking, after reading about an accident, if you had a better design, would you put the guard back on? Yes, I would. I use the present guard too, most of the time. The problem of course is that some operations can't be done with the guard in place unless you have one of those fancy aftermarket overhead guards. For example, when I said I was ripping a piece of wood to 2.5", that was somewhat simplified. What I was really doing was ripping 1/4" off of a 3" wide board. With the guard in place, the 1/4" offcut, which was what I wanted, would have fit inside the guard and probably been chewed to bits by the blade. A riving knife OTOH would be very nice if there was one available for my saw, but there isn't. I do use a splitter but that has to be removed in order to make a cut that doesn't go all the way through. Since my accident, I have been considering some way to suspend my guard an inch above the table. With the strange design of my ancient Delta it just might be doable. Damm it's hard to type with one thumb wrapped up like a mummy. You wouldn't believe how many times I've hit backspace to write this! -- Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw |
#28
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
New guard designs
"Greg G." wrote in message The cheap import benchtop saws are still problematic, however, and much of what is used on construction sites. From what I read, even the cheap saws will be better than in the past. If you are spending though $1000 and up, way up, for a good saw, it should be fitted with a guard that is sensible, workable, safe, and actually encourages use. |
#29
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
New guard designs
Ed Pawlowski said:
"Greg G." wrote in message The cheap import benchtop saws are still problematic, however, and much of what is used on construction sites. From what I read, even the cheap saws will be better than in the past. If If importers would stop buying the cheapest stuff available to fill the big box stores it would have already improved. As diggerop mentioned, there are some interesting pieces out there, we just don't see them on these shores much/yet. And for the few importers that actually have any input into the manufacturing process, it's not rocket science - stop being so damned cheap and lazy. The Taiwanese, Indians, and Chinese sure won't be - they're hungry for your dollars. you are spending though $1000 and up, way up, for a good saw, it should be fitted with a guard that is sensible, workable, safe, and actually encourages use. You would think. That was one of the big disappointments of the Unisaw. I think it went 20 years without any major upgrades - other than a trendy, yet dated X splashed across the front and in the model number. Heavy, reliable saw, but the guard and splitter were a joke. The Powermatic2000 and SawStop upped the ante in the saw market. Greg G. |
#30
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
New guard designs
Greg G. wrote:
you are spending though $1000 and up, way up, for a good saw, it should be fitted with a guard that is sensible, workable, safe, and actually encourages use. You would think. That was one of the big disappointments of the Unisaw. I think it went 20 years without any major upgrades - other than a trendy, yet dated X splashed across the front and in the model number. Heavy, reliable saw, but the guard and splitter were a joke. The Powermatic2000 and SawStop upped the ante in the saw market. Yep. I tried my best to keep that blade guard installed on my Unisaw, but it's just an utter piece of crap and I can only put up with so much of that. I opted instead for a good phenolic zero-clearance insert with a relief cut in back to allow the installation of a collection of splitters (riving knives, really, of my own design that I made in about five different heights, each of which hug the blade as closely as possible according that that particular blade height). Couple that arrangement with a good crosscut sled, a pair of GRRR-Rippers and various featherboards and I'm about as safe as I can be without have a blade guard or Saw-Stop to protect me the rest of the way. Being deathly afraid of the machine and following a calm calculated process helps too. I've had my Unisaw for about 10 years and it has yet to bite me (knock on wood...). -- See Nad. See Nad go. Go Nad! To reply, eat the taco. http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/ |
#31
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
New guard designs
On Nov 16, 4:00*pm, Greg wrote:
Ed Pawlowski said: "Greg G." wrote in message The cheap import benchtop saws are still problematic, however, and much of what is used on construction sites. From what I read, even the cheap saws will be better than in the past. * If If importers would stop buying the cheapest stuff available to fill the big box stores it would have already improved. As diggerop mentioned, there are some interesting pieces out there, we just don't see them on these shores much/yet. And for the few importers that actually have any input into the manufacturing process, it's not rocket science - stop being so damned cheap and lazy. The Taiwanese, Indians, and Chinese sure won't be - they're hungry for your dollars. you are spending though $1000 and up, way up, for a good saw, it should be fitted with a guard that is sensible, workable, safe, and actually encourages use. You would think. That was one of the big disappointments of the Unisaw. I think it went 20 years without any major upgrades - other than a trendy, yet dated X splashed across the front and in the model number. *Heavy, reliable saw, but the guard and splitter were a joke. The Powermatic2000 and SawStop upped the ante in the saw market. OTOH, that's exactly why I bought my Unisaw. Well, that and the price. |
Reply |
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Forum | |||
Always use the guard??? | Woodworking | |||
Can you help me with a jointer guard. | Woodworking | |||
TS guard | Woodworking | |||
BELT GUARD | Woodworking |