[-MIKE-]

Is there a rule-of-thumb for the maximum length of a board to be run
across a jointer?
Is there a ratio of bed length to board length or something like hat?

The manual for my 6" Delta has *minimum* requirement, but nothing about
maximum.

I know technically, if you have out feed rollers/support, there would be
no maximum length, but I'm guessing there might be a point of diminished
returns, per se.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

[dpb]

-MIKE- wrote:
Is there a rule-of-thumb for the maximum length of a board to be run
across a jointer?
Is there a ratio of bed length to board length or something like hat?

The manual for my 6" Delta has *minimum* requirement, but nothing about
maximum.

I know technically, if you have out feed rollers/support, there would be
no maximum length, but I'm guessing there might be a point of diminished
returns, per se.

Generally, once you get over twice the length of the outfeed table the
force to keep the work on the table will be sufficient you'll distort
the cut. That said, w/ practice and care, one can manage pieces longer
than that...how's that for waffling???

The possibility of using external support on a jointer is minimal at
best--it's essentially impossible to get them adjusted to the precision
required to actually be so well in line that relying on them for support
won't distort the edge. Having one is a certain safety feature in
knowing nothing drastic is going to happen to the work if you do need to
let it drop, but thinking can rely on one for the root operation of the
jointer for truly straightly joined edge is false hope imo.

--

[skeez]

On Thu, 05 Nov 2009 11:47:50 -0600, -MIKE-
wrote:

Is there a rule-of-thumb for the maximum length of a board to be run
across a jointer?
Is there a ratio of bed length to board length or something like hat?

The manual for my 6" Delta has *minimum* requirement, but nothing about
maximum.

I know technically, if you have out feed rollers/support, there would be
no maximum length, but I'm guessing there might be a point of diminished
returns, per se.


my rule is twice the length of the bed. sometimes I need support or
help depending on the species. it gets hairy at the end of the cut!
:-]

[-MIKE-]

dpb wrote:
Generally, once you get over twice the length of the outfeed table the
force to keep the work on the table will be sufficient you'll distort
the cut. That said, w/ practice and care, one can manage pieces longer
than that...how's that for waffling???


You mean the entire jointer bed or just the outfeed half?

My jointer table is 36" total, with each bed being half of that.
I've been running 4' boards with no problem, but I anticipate anything
longer than that would be pretty unstable.


The possibility of using external support on a jointer is minimal at
best--it's essentially impossible to get them adjusted to the precision
required to actually be so well in line that relying on them for support
won't distort the edge.

I was thinking the same thing.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

[Swingman]

-MIKE- wrote:

You mean the entire jointer bed or just the outfeed half?

Infeed plus outfeed x 2.

It's a ballpark rule, but generally gives satisfactory results. It takes
a good deal of technique and practice to exceed it by much, but it can
be done.


--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

[-MIKE-]

Swingman wrote:
-MIKE- wrote:

You mean the entire jointer bed or just the outfeed half?

Infeed plus outfeed x 2.


So, twice the length of the jointer?....

....or in equation form, "Infeed + [(outfeed)2]"

Infeed 18"
Outfeed 18"
Max board 72"?
or max board 54"?


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

[dpb]

-MIKE- wrote:
Swingman wrote:
-MIKE- wrote:

You mean the entire jointer bed or just the outfeed half?

Infeed plus outfeed x 2.


So, twice the length of the jointer?....

...or in equation form, "Infeed + [(outfeed)2]"

Infeed 18"
Outfeed 18"
Max board 72"?
or max board 54"?

As I attempted to say, there is no fixed formula.

If it's a 1x3 piece of pine, you can joint quite a long piece
satisfactorily--replace it w/ a 3x12 piece of oak and the overhanging
weight will be a major issue far short of that.

All you can do is work with what you have and see whether what you're
trying to accomplish works or not.

The key thing is to give up when you require so much downward force
you're losing easy control of the workpiece -- it's in those extreme
cases where you're trying to push the limits that I allowed as how
there's a point in a support simply to give you that safety back up of
being able to let the end fall on the support instead of trying to keep
it on the bed and risk an injury. You're much more likely to do that
when you know your workpiece isn't going to go crashing on the floor.

When work pieces get to be unwieldy w/ the equipment you have you either
need one of three options --

a) figure out how to do the operation on smaller pieces which are later
joined (admittedly hard on length sometimes),

b) get larger equipment (or go to commercial shop) if not sufficient to
justify the outlay,

c) do the operation w/ the workpiece stationary and a hand operation (be
that hand plane, router w/ guide, whatever...

Whatever, if it feels uncomfortable, it's probably also unsafe.

--

[Swingman]

-MIKE- wrote:
Swingman wrote:
-MIKE- wrote:

You mean the entire jointer bed or just the outfeed half?

Infeed plus outfeed x 2.


So, twice the length of the jointer?....

...or in equation form, "Infeed + [(outfeed)2]"

Infeed 18"
Outfeed 18"
Max board 72"?
or max board 54"?

In the example it would be 72" ... but, once again, that is just a ball
park estimate for what is a comfortable length to joint on that
particular jointer, so DON'T take it as a hard and fast rule.

There are other factors besides table length, material and technique
being two equally important.

As a general rule, the longer the jointer tables the longer the board
that can be jointed.

IOW, if you're shopping for a jointer, use an overall longer table
length as a desirable feature.

This is one of the reasons the Powermatic 6" jointer has historically
been such a popular machine ... being only a 6" capacity, the tables on
it were as long as what came on many 8" jointers.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

[Chris Friesen]

On 11/05/2009 11:47 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
Is there a rule-of-thumb for the maximum length of a board to be run
across a jointer?
Is there a ratio of bed length to board length or something like hat?

You can go as long as you can hold the board on the bed. However, as it
gets longer, accuracy can be compromised, especially at the ends of the
board.

As dpb mentioned, you need to be able to hold it down. Edge jointing an
8-foot 1x6 is one thing, jointing half of a benchtop is another thing
entirely.

Once it gets too unwieldy or if accuracy is paramount, I'll turn to my
hand planes.

Chris

[-MIKE-]

dpb wrote:
-MIKE- wrote:
Swingman wrote:
-MIKE- wrote:

You mean the entire jointer bed or just the outfeed half?

Infeed plus outfeed x 2.


So, twice the length of the jointer?....

...or in equation form, "Infeed + [(outfeed)2]"

Infeed 18"
Outfeed 18"
Max board 72"?
or max board 54"?

As I attempted to say, there is no fixed formula.

If it's a 1x3 piece of pine, you can joint quite a long piece
satisfactorily--replace it w/ a 3x12 piece of oak and the overhanging
weight will be a major issue far short of that.

All you can do is work with what you have and see whether what you're
trying to accomplish works or not.

The key thing is to give up when you require so much downward force
you're losing easy control of the workpiece -- it's in those extreme
cases where you're trying to push the limits that I allowed as how
there's a point in a support simply to give you that safety back up of
being able to let the end fall on the support instead of trying to keep
it on the bed and risk an injury. You're much more likely to do that
when you know your workpiece isn't going to go crashing on the floor.

When work pieces get to be unwieldy w/ the equipment you have you either
need one of three options --

a) figure out how to do the operation on smaller pieces which are later
joined (admittedly hard on length sometimes),

b) get larger equipment (or go to commercial shop) if not sufficient to
justify the outlay,

c) do the operation w/ the workpiece stationary and a hand operation (be
that hand plane, router w/ guide, whatever...

Whatever, if it feels uncomfortable, it's probably also unsafe.

--

I appreciate you taking the time to write all that... however, my reason
for asking has nothing to do with safe handling or being able to handle
the lumber. I see that I didn't make this clear in my first post.

I'm looking to see where the limit is for an accurate cut. I'm wondering
if there is a limit in length at which you can no longer expect
perfectly straight results.

Setting aside all other factors.... assume everything else is covered:
safety, machine set-up, proper operator technique.



--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

[-MIKE-]

Chris Friesen wrote:
On 11/05/2009 11:47 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
Is there a rule-of-thumb for the maximum length of a board to be run
across a jointer?
Is there a ratio of bed length to board length or something like hat?

You can go as long as you can hold the board on the bed. However, as it
gets longer, accuracy can be compromised, especially at the ends of the
board.


Yes, accuracy is what I'm concerned with. And I generally make sure my
boards are at least a couple inches longer than finished size to account
for any snipe(?) on the ends.


As dpb mentioned, you need to be able to hold it down. Edge jointing an
8-foot 1x6 is one thing, jointing half of a benchtop is another thing
entirely.


I'm talking about edging, in this instance.


Once it gets too unwieldy or if accuracy is paramount, I'll turn to my
hand planes.

Chris

I'd have to sharpen them... and learn what all those knobs and levers
are for. :-)


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

[dpb]

-MIKE- wrote:
....

I'm looking to see where the limit is for an accurate cut. I'm wondering
if there is a limit in length at which you can no longer expect
perfectly straight results.
....

And after all that, obviously "we have a failure to communicate"

There _IS_ no such magic limit; it's dependent on the particular piece
owing to the size effect already expounded upon and probably even more
importantly, the expertise of the operator (that is, after you've been
using a jointer (and even more so, the same jointer) for 30+ years,
you'll undoubtedly be able to do work far in excess of what you were
able to do with it after only the first few weekends).

IOW, quit worrying over it, try whatever it is you have to try and see
if you can get a good edge(+) (again staying within comfort zones for
safety, obviously).

I don't know what else there is to say.

(+) Assuming you have the jointer set up so that you can take a 2-3'
piece and create a tight joint to demonstrate there's not a setup issue,
after that wherever you run into a problem it's an operator problem, not
that of the jointer.


--

[Leon[_6_]]

"-MIKE-" wrote in message
...
Swingman wrote:
-MIKE- wrote:

You mean the entire jointer bed or just the outfeed half?

Infeed plus outfeed x 2.


So, twice the length of the jointer?....

...or in equation form, "Infeed + [(outfeed)2]"

Infeed 18"
Outfeed 18"
Max board 72"?
or max board 54"?


The number you are looking for is 72", how did you arrive at 54"? The
shorter the board from that point the more consistant your results will turn
out as you want.

Now if you object is to straighten a board, that board clamped down to a
3/4" x 96" piece of plywood and run through your TS works nicely on boards
8' long.

[-MIKE-]

Leon wrote:
...or in equation form, "Infeed + [(outfeed)2]"

Infeed 18"
Outfeed 18"
Max board 72"?
or max board 54"?


The number you are looking for is 72", how did you arrive at 54"?

"Infeed plus outfeed x 2. "

Infeed 18" + (outfeed 18" x2) = 54. I was just making sure he didn't
mean that.


The
shorter the board from that point the more consistant your results will turn
out as you want.

Now if you object is to straighten a board, that board clamped down to a
3/4" x 96" piece of plywood and run through your TS works nicely on boards
8' long.


That's how I didn't it before I had a jointer, but with a router. :-)


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

[Leon[_6_]]

"-MIKE-" wrote in message
...
Leon wrote:
...or in equation form, "Infeed + [(outfeed)2]"

Infeed 18"
Outfeed 18"
Max board 72"?
or max board 54"?


The number you are looking for is 72", how did you arrive at 54"?

"Infeed plus outfeed x 2. "

Infeed 18" + (outfeed 18" x2) = 54. I was just making sure he didn't
mean that.


I see. I must have just visualized (Infeed + Outfeed)x2 ;!)





The shorter the board from that point the more consistant your results
will turn out as you want.

Now if you object is to straighten a board, that board clamped down to a
3/4" x 96" piece of plywood and run through your TS works nicely on
boards 8' long.


That's how I didn't it before I had a jointer, but with a router. :-)

I typically can straighten on the TS good enough for glue ups and am
currently looking to get rid of my 6" jointer, although not trying very
hard. ;~)

[John Grossbohlin[_2_]]

"-MIKE-" wrote in message
...
Is there a rule-of-thumb for the maximum length of a board to be run
across a jointer?
Is there a ratio of bed length to board length or something like hat?

The manual for my 6" Delta has *minimum* requirement, but nothing about
maximum.

I know technically, if you have out feed rollers/support, there would be
no maximum length, but I'm guessing there might be a point of diminished
returns, per se.

I successfully edge jointed 12 foot pine boards on my Reliant 6" jointer
when I had it... face jointing was another issue due to board sag. Using the
term loosely, the beam strength of the wood on edge was adequate to keep the
board straight where as it wasn't for face jointing. The other problem is
the weight of the board. I had the Reliant leaning over with the outfeed
table tilted towards the ground one time with a long heavy board. Guess I
should have bolted the machine down!

Problems diminished somewhat when I got the 8" DJ-20. The tables are about
twice as long as the Reliant's were and the machine base is much longer.
Combined with much greater weight I've never tipped this jointer even when
running 6x6x10s over it.

I think the real question in choosing how big of a machine to buy is what
are you going to use the jointer for. If you are making furniture you seldom
use boards over 4 feet long but may need more width (I think this is where
the combo jointer/planners shine). If you are making face frames for built
ins 8 footers may be more common for length but you may not need as much
width. If you are doing architectural work, e.g., initial jointing prior to
running through a molder to make 16 foot or longer oak crown molding then
you need a heavy long bed jointer for stability and support. I'd think a
power feed with outfeed support may let you get away with a bit smaller
machine but bigger is almost always better.

The other consideration is you just need to get the board straight and flat
enough for good support in the thickness planner and/or table saw. After the
jointer saw or plane the opposite side/edge, and the flip it over and do the
jointed edge/face. You don't have to get every last bit of the face jointed
nor every last bit of the edge. As such, perfection off the jointer isn't
necessary.

I figured out a long time ago that I should buy the biggest tool I can
afford as I always end up pushing things to the limit--like tilting the
Reliant. This reality is why I've got a 36" bandsaw sitting on the side
while I renovate my wood shed to hold it. The 18" bandsaw just isn't big and
robust enough...

John

[Leon[_6_]]

"John Grossbohlin" wrote in message
m...


I successfully edge jointed 12 foot pine boards on my Reliant 6" jointer
when I had it...


YOU! are a wood working GOD.

[John Grossbohlin[_2_]]

"Leon" wrote in message
...

"John Grossbohlin" wrote in message
m...


I successfully edge jointed 12 foot pine boards on my Reliant 6" jointer
when I had it...


YOU! are a wood working GOD.


More like I had enough body weight and strength at the time to keep it tight
on the table.

Being older and lighter now I'm not sure I could pull it off today...
another reason for bigger tools. ;~)

[dpb]

John Grossbohlin wrote:

"Leon" wrote in message
...

"John Grossbohlin" wrote in
message m...


I successfully edge jointed 12 foot pine boards on my Reliant 6"
jointer when I had it...


YOU! are a wood working GOD.


More like I had enough body weight and strength at the time to keep it
tight on the table.

Being older and lighter now I'm not sure I could pull it off today...
another reason for bigger tools. ;~)

Ayup...

At one time 30-something years ago I did a 7-ft oak bookcase on the
first 4" Craftsman machine I had. I could do those easily on the
present Crescent as they'll sit on either table comfortably. On the
little Craftsman they were on the borderline of the "tilt-that-sucker"
point.

I've some old 20-ft Doug fir tuba-10 & -12 material in the barn loft
left over from when we built the grain bins in the loft for the feed
mill back in the late 50s. I can't bring myself to cut one of them for
anything, but I have thought of jointing an edge and using them as an
exhibit set of shelving for a bunch of the antique tools, bits of
tack/harness, etc., etc., that have collected since the git-go. I don't
I could do them even if Crescent were a 20"-er instead of just 12"...

Hadn't thought about that random thought for some years since we
uncovered the stack of them while doing the restoration work on it after
the roofing was completed. That might just have to be a winter project...

--

[diggerop]

"Leon" wrote in message
...

"-MIKE-" wrote in message
...
Leon wrote:
...or in equation form, "Infeed + [(outfeed)2]"

Infeed 18"
Outfeed 18"
Max board 72"?
or max board 54"?


The number you are looking for is 72", how did you arrive at 54"?

"Infeed plus outfeed x 2. "

Infeed 18" + (outfeed 18" x2) = 54. I was just making sure he didn't
mean that.


I see. I must have just visualized (Infeed + Outfeed)x2 ;!)





The shorter the board from that point the more consistant your results
will turn out as you want.

Now if you object is to straighten a board, that board clamped down to a
3/4" x 96" piece of plywood and run through your TS works nicely on
boards 8' long.


That's how I didn't it before I had a jointer, but with a router. :-)

I typically can straighten on the TS good enough for glue ups and am
currently looking to get rid of my 6" jointer, although not trying very
hard. ;~)



Likewise, I have for years used a TS for straightening and got rid of my old
6" jointer some years ago. It was not something I missed. When I recently
decided to get a thicknesser (planer) I opted for a combination machine
because the price was attractive and resale is better if I want to upgrade.
Although the jointer gives excellent results, (I recently jointed some 8'
boards for a bookcase to see what results I could produce,) it is no better
than the TS. Both methods seem to give me flat boards for thickness planing
and straight edges for glue-ups.
For me, the TS is very much faster for truing up significantly distorted
boards, even it it requires more than one pass for wider boards.

diggerop

[-MIKE-]

diggerop wrote:
"Leon" wrote in message
I typically can straighten on the TS good enough for glue ups and am
currently looking to get rid of my 6" jointer, although not trying
very hard. ;~)



Likewise, I have for years used a TS for straightening and got rid of my
old 6" jointer some years ago. It was not something I missed. When I
recently decided to get a thicknesser (planer) I opted for a combination
machine because the price was attractive and resale is better if I want
to upgrade. Although the jointer gives excellent results, (I recently
jointed some 8' boards for a bookcase to see what results I could
produce,) it is no better than the TS. Both methods seem to give me flat
boards for thickness planing and straight edges for glue-ups.
For me, the TS is very much faster for truing up significantly distorted
boards, even it it requires more than one pass for wider boards.

diggerop

Well, I'm diggin all this talk about table saws, now that I have a good
one.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

[Maxwell Lol]

-MIKE- writes:

Is there a rule-of-thumb for the maximum length of a board to be run
across a jointer?

Well, once they get to be a 1/4 mile long, it becomes
problematic. Curvature of the earth can be a bitch.

[diggerop]

"-MIKE-" wrote in message
...
diggerop

Well, I'm diggin all this talk about table saws, now that I have a good
one.


--


Best tool in the shed from my point of view.
..... To Samuel Miller (1777, ) I dips me lid

diggerop

[Larry Jaques]

On Thu, 05 Nov 2009 15:27:59 -0600, the infamous -MIKE-
scrawled the following:

dpb wrote:
-MIKE- wrote:
Swingman wrote:
-MIKE- wrote:

You mean the entire jointer bed or just the outfeed half?

Infeed plus outfeed x 2.


So, twice the length of the jointer?....

...or in equation form, "Infeed + [(outfeed)2]"

Infeed 18"
Outfeed 18"
Max board 72"?
or max board 54"?

As I attempted to say, there is no fixed formula.

If it's a 1x3 piece of pine, you can joint quite a long piece
satisfactorily--replace it w/ a 3x12 piece of oak and the overhanging
weight will be a major issue far short of that.

All you can do is work with what you have and see whether what you're
trying to accomplish works or not.

The key thing is to give up when you require so much downward force
you're losing easy control of the workpiece -- it's in those extreme
cases where you're trying to push the limits that I allowed as how
there's a point in a support simply to give you that safety back up of
being able to let the end fall on the support instead of trying to keep
it on the bed and risk an injury. You're much more likely to do that
when you know your workpiece isn't going to go crashing on the floor.

When work pieces get to be unwieldy w/ the equipment you have you either
need one of three options --

a) figure out how to do the operation on smaller pieces which are later
joined (admittedly hard on length sometimes),

b) get larger equipment (or go to commercial shop) if not sufficient to
justify the outlay,

c) do the operation w/ the workpiece stationary and a hand operation (be
that hand plane, router w/ guide, whatever...

Whatever, if it feels uncomfortable, it's probably also unsafe.

--

I appreciate you taking the time to write all that... however, my reason
for asking has nothing to do with safe handling or being able to handle
the lumber. I see that I didn't make this clear in my first post.

I'm looking to see where the limit is for an accurate cut. I'm wondering
if there is a limit in length at which you can no longer expect
perfectly straight results.

Setting aside all other factors.... assume everything else is covered:
safety, machine set-up, proper operator technique.

Then the limit is human error coupled with lumber error. How big can
you handle safely and precisely? A few interrupted passes can take
down a bowed board, but you have to be able to manipulate it during
those passes without error. Got twist, or both? Forget it.

--
"To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of
ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical."
-- Thomas Jefferson

[Larry Jaques]

On Thu, 05 Nov 2009 15:40:06 -0600, the infamous -MIKE-
scrawled the following:

Chris Friesen wrote:
On 11/05/2009 11:47 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
Is there a rule-of-thumb for the maximum length of a board to be run
across a jointer?
Is there a ratio of bed length to board length or something like hat?

You can go as long as you can hold the board on the bed. However, as it
gets longer, accuracy can be compromised, especially at the ends of the
board.


Yes, accuracy is what I'm concerned with. And I generally make sure my
boards are at least a couple inches longer than finished size to account
for any snipe(?) on the ends.

Good.


As dpb mentioned, you need to be able to hold it down. Edge jointing an
8-foot 1x6 is one thing, jointing half of a benchtop is another thing
entirely.


I'm talking about edging, in this instance.

One doesn't "joint half of a benchtop", suh.


Once it gets too unwieldy or if accuracy is paramount, I'll turn to my
hand planes.

Chris

I'd have to sharpen them... and learn what all those knobs and levers
are for. :-)

Then you'd have to train your hands to feel precisely 90 degrees
(though there are training wheels for that.) It's a skillset which can
be learned, but it takes lots of practice for it to be maintained.

--
"To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of
ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical."
-- Thomas Jefferson

[dpb]

-MIKE- wrote:
Chris Friesen wrote:
On 11/05/2009 11:47 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
Is there a rule-of-thumb for the maximum length of a board to be run
across a jointer?
Is there a ratio of bed length to board length or something like hat?

You can go as long as you can hold the board on the bed. However, as it
gets longer, accuracy can be compromised, especially at the ends of the
board.


Yes, accuracy is what I'm concerned with. And I generally make sure my
boards are at least a couple inches longer than finished size to account
for any snipe(?) on the ends.
....

There had better be no snipe on a jointer--if there is, the knives
aren't set correctly wrt to the outfeed table or there is too much
downforce on the workpiece directly over the cutterhead at the end of
the pass.

Even w/ very long work that's up to the verge of what can physically
deal with, one should be able to get a clean edge that will match edges
over the entire length including the ends. (That's where the effect of
long-term experience/familiarity/practice I mentioned previously really
comes to the fore when pushing the limits, of course...)

Snipe should be a problem relegated only to planers...

--

[-MIKE-]

Maxwell Lol wrote:
-MIKE- writes:

Is there a rule-of-thumb for the maximum length of a board to be run
across a jointer?

Well, once they get to be a 1/4 mile long, it becomes
problematic. Curvature of the earth can be a bitch.


My outfeed and infeed extension are 1500 meters, so I should be ok.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

[-MIKE-]

Larry Jaques wrote:
Then you'd have to train your hands to feel precisely 90 degrees
(though there are training wheels for that.) It's a skillset which can
be learned, but it takes lots of practice for it to be maintained.


It's not the same thing, but.... I have a electric hand-held planer and
I'm better at using it *without* the little fence guide that came
with it. It just seems to get in the way. I can feel and see the surface
getting flat. I suppose one gets the same feeling, probably stronger,
from hand planing.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

[-MIKE-]

dpb wrote:
-MIKE- wrote:
Chris Friesen wrote:
On 11/05/2009 11:47 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
Is there a rule-of-thumb for the maximum length of a board to be run
across a jointer?
Is there a ratio of bed length to board length or something like hat?

You can go as long as you can hold the board on the bed. However, as it
gets longer, accuracy can be compromised, especially at the ends of the
board.


Yes, accuracy is what I'm concerned with. And I generally make sure
my boards are at least a couple inches longer than finished size to
account for any snipe(?) on the ends.
...

There had better be no snipe on a jointer--if there is, the knives
aren't set correctly wrt to the outfeed table or there is too much
downforce on the workpiece directly over the cutterhead at the end of
the pass.

Even w/ very long work that's up to the verge of what can physically
deal with, one should be able to get a clean edge that will match edges
over the entire length including the ends. (That's where the effect of
long-term experience/familiarity/practice I mentioned previously really
comes to the fore when pushing the limits, of course...)

Snipe should be a problem relegated only to planers...

--

You're correct about that. Even the manual for this jointer refers to
that in the section about setting the height of the blades. Since I'm
used to running one edge through the jointer, then moving to the planer
to get the other edge parallel, I still leave it longer than finished
length.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

[Chris Friesen]

On 11/06/2009 08:34 AM, dpb wrote:

Even w/ very long work that's up to the verge of what can physically
deal with, one should be able to get a clean edge that will match edges
over the entire length including the ends.

Within reason. Due to the basic geometry of a jointer and the fact that
wood compresses slightly, once you start getting significantly longer
than the bed length the accuracy starts to drop.

As a thought experiment, imagine passing a 10' board over a jointer with
a 10" bed length.

Chris

[charlie]

"Chris Friesen" wrote in message
...
On 11/06/2009 08:34 AM, dpb wrote:

Even w/ very long work that's up to the verge of what can physically
deal with, one should be able to get a clean edge that will match edges
over the entire length including the ends.

Within reason. Due to the basic geometry of a jointer and the fact that
wood compresses slightly, once you start getting significantly longer
than the bed length the accuracy starts to drop.

As a thought experiment, imagine passing a 10' board over a jointer with
a 10" bed length.

Chris

given high enough strength holddowns over the outfeed table, wouldn't it
still work? the end of the board may sag, but the part of the board just
past the cutters should still be on the table so the cut would be accurate.
if the board is high enough, the tension in the board could even hold it
straight without support.

[dpb]

-MIKE- wrote:
....

used to running one edge through the jointer, then moving to the planer
to get the other edge parallel, ...

YIKES!!!! You're running stuff thru the planer _on_EDGE_!!??? Now that
_IS_ scary.

That's what ripping's for on the TS. W/ a planer ripping blade and saw
set up well, you should be able to glue directly from there. Or, at
worst, a single skinch cut on the jointer.

--

[dpb]

charlie wrote:
"Chris Friesen" wrote in message
....
As a thought experiment, imagine passing a 10' board over a jointer with
a 10" bed length.
....
given high enough strength holddowns over the outfeed table, wouldn't it
still work? ...

I'm "thoughting" skyhook...

--

[Chris Friesen]

On 11/06/2009 12:19 PM, charlie wrote:
"Chris Friesen" wrote in message
...
On 11/06/2009 08:34 AM, dpb wrote:

Even w/ very long work that's up to the verge of what can physically
deal with, one should be able to get a clean edge that will match edges
over the entire length including the ends.

Within reason. Due to the basic geometry of a jointer and the fact that
wood compresses slightly, once you start getting significantly longer
than the bed length the accuracy starts to drop.

As a thought experiment, imagine passing a 10' board over a jointer with
a 10" bed length.

Chris

given high enough strength holddowns over the outfeed table, wouldn't it
still work? the end of the board may sag, but the part of the board just
past the cutters should still be on the table so the cut would be accurate.

Possibly...but who has powerful holddowns on their jointer? My hands
are my holddowns, and given that they're also moving to push the stock
through there's no way that I can be sufficiently accurate to give good
results in really long stock.

Personally, I find it really easy to joint stock that is the length of
the outfeed table. This ensures that a concave board can ride on the
low points at all times. Once the stock gets longer than the outfeed
table, then you need to care a bit more about technique but it still
works. So far I haven't had to go much more than about 1.5x the length
of the bed. I wouldn't want to go much more than 2x the length of the
bed, and for something like that I'd probably knock off the high points
with a handplane first anyways.

Chris

[-MIKE-]

dpb wrote:
-MIKE- wrote:
...

used to running one edge through the jointer, then moving to the planer
to get the other edge parallel, ...

YIKES!!!! You're running stuff thru the planer _on_EDGE_!!??? Now that
_IS_ scary.


Never had a problem, probably because I'm not running one at a time.

If I have five or six boards I want at the same exact width, I run them
all through side by side. I'm not talking 8" wide, here. Generally 2"
and under, like cabinet stock.

You know how they can look the same and measure the same, but when you
set them together, and run your finger across, you can feel they aren't
exact? That gets them exact for me.

Keep in mind, this is technique developed by someone who didn't have a
good table saw.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

[Larry Blanchard]

On Fri, 06 Nov 2009 12:06:33 -0600, Chris Friesen wrote:


Within reason. Due to the basic geometry of a jointer and the fact that
wood compresses slightly, once you start getting significantly longer
than the bed length the accuracy starts to drop.


A rule I heard a long time ago was that the max length equaled the total
length of the jointer. Another version was twice the length of the
infeed table.

In any case, if the edge is warped very much, I make a few partial passes
to bring it closer to flat before running a full length pass.

--
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw

[Larry Jaques]

On Fri, 06 Nov 2009 12:52:33 -0600, the infamous dpb
scrawled the following:

charlie wrote:
"Chris Friesen" wrote in message
...
As a thought experiment, imagine passing a 10' board over a jointer with
a 10" bed length.
...
given high enough strength holddowns over the outfeed table, wouldn't it
still work? ...

I'm "thoughting" skyhook...

What a perfect time to buy a new tool! They'll also help you stack
your lumber piles, move machine tools, etc.

http://www.roxburyauto.com/machines/...IR-VR642B.html

--
"To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of
ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical."
-- Thomas Jefferson