Leon and I were just discussing this on the back channel.

Any one here going to bite?

http://vimeo.com/5577744

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KarlC@ (the obvious)

On Oct 4, 12:35*pm, Swingman wrote:
Leon and I were just discussing this on the back channel.

Any one here going to bite?

http://vimeo.com/5577744

--www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

Just buy the bit. The rest you already own or could fab pretty quickly.

Robatoy wrote:
On Oct 4, 12:35 pm, Swingman wrote:
Leon and I were just discussing this on the back channel.

Any one here going to bite?

http://vimeo.com/5577744

--www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

Just buy the bit. The rest you already own or could fab pretty quickly.

That crossed a couple of minds already. Trying to determine if it could
be adapted to the M-R.

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KarlC@ (the obvious)

On Sun, 04 Oct 2009 11:35:23 -0500, Swingman wrote:

Leon and I were just discussing this on the back channel.

Any one here going to bite?

http://vimeo.com/5577744


I don't see how that is better than what I've been doing. I bead up
the stock and then remove what needs to be by using a combination of
the chopsaw with the depth set, and the bandsaw to do what the chopsaw
can't.

They'll have to do some more convincing to crowbar any money out of my
wallet.


Regards,

Tom Watson
http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1/

On Oct 4, 11:13*am, Tom Watson wrote:

I don't see how that is better than what I've been doing. *I bead up
the stock and then remove what needs to be by using a combination of
the chopsaw with the depth set, and the bandsaw to do what the chopsaw
can't.

Yeah, I'm not getting that one. The gloss over the fact that you must
be 100% (as in absolutely no margin of error) accurate on your depth
cuts in the stiles, and perfect in the length of the ears that are cut
off on the rails. Anyone that has tried to match cuts with an Incra
system or any of the other snap on stop systems can testify how hard
that can be. Again, I am looking at that depth adjustment. How many
test cuts would you have to make?

At least if you are building faces the old fashioned way (not as show
in the video with saw blade burned wood, oozing glue, and poor bead
mold placement) you can make up just a bit of inconsistency when you
add your bead mold. With this system, you have no margin for error.

They'll have to do some more convincing to crowbar any money out of my
wallet.

Ditto. I didn't know that there was such a great need for beaded
faces that a new product was needed. To me, this is a solution
looking for a problem.

Robert

wrote:
On Oct 4, 11:13 am, Tom Watson wrote:

I don't see how that is better than what I've been doing. I bead up
the stock and then remove what needs to be by using a combination of
the chopsaw with the depth set, and the bandsaw to do what the chopsaw
can't.

Yeah, I'm not getting that one. The gloss over the fact that you must
be 100% (as in absolutely no margin of error) accurate on your depth
cuts in the stiles, and perfect in the length of the ears that are cut
off on the rails. Anyone that has tried to match cuts with an Incra
system or any of the other snap on stop systems can testify how hard
that can be. Again, I am looking at that depth adjustment. How many
test cuts would you have to make?

Looks to me that the shoulder might make that easier than you think?
Then again, maybe not.

Ditto. I didn't know that there was such a great need for beaded
faces that a new product was needed. To me, this is a solution
looking for a problem.

How long the fad will last is anyone's guess, but do know for a fact
that they are a much asked about item in kitchens theses days.

Apparently the "kitchen and bath" magazine industry was looking for an
old "new" idea to sell magazines.

Hey, I'm not trying to sell the damn things, but I wouldn't mind
using/adapting the concept to cut back on the waste and time it takes to
do beaded FF on a ****load of cabinets.

I lusted after one of the dedicated machines a few years ago ... they
started at $8k back then ...

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KarlC@ (the obvious)

On Oct 4, 12:39 pm, Swingman wrote:

Looks to me that the shoulder might make that easier than you think?
Then again, maybe not.

I have no idea. But for the last few nifty machines I have looked at,
it always seems that it will be easier to use than it is. I think I
am jaded. =


How long the fad will last is anyone's guess, but do know for a fact
that they are a much asked about item in kitchens theses days.

Apparently the "kitchen and bath" magazine industry was looking for an
old "new" idea to sell magazines.

Either that design hasn't made its way over here yet in full force, or
our designers didn't like it. I see the beading on bath cabs and
such, but not on full kitchens. Maybe the cost... dunno...

Hey, I'm not trying to sell the damn things, but I wouldn't mind
using/adapting the concept to cut back on the waste and time it takes to
do beaded FF on a ****load of cabinets.

Are you sure? Lots of conspiracy guys around here these days...
you'll never get away with it!! just kiddin'

Saving time on repetitive tasks is always a good thing. But as slow
as my business has been (last full kitchen - 8 months ago and nothing
in sight!!) I have no need for any new tools, nor the budget to buy
them.

Right now, you couldn't drive a toothpick in my ass with a
sledgehammer.

Robert

wrote:

I have no idea. But for the last few nifty machines I have looked at,
it always seems that it will be easier to use than it is. I think I
am jaded. =

Dovetail jigs come to mind, or repeated battles with same.

Either that design hasn't made its way over here yet in full force, or
our designers didn't like it. I see the beading on bath cabs and
such, but not on full kitchens. Maybe the cost... dunno...

True ... it is time consuming, therefore costly, and thus not often seen
in 'wham bam thank you mam' built-in jobs ... IME, something you want to
do in the shop.

Right now, you couldn't drive a toothpick in my ass with a
sledgehammer.

Sorry to hear that ... you're not that far from Austin, where I've been
having a difficult time finding subs at all, as those guys are busy as
hell and very proud of what they do. I wouldn't mind the latter except
that the quality of work in that area is decidedly inferior to what we
get in the Houston area, as much as I bitch about that.

That said, the next house is stuck in planning stages and may not come
unstuck for some time, so I could well be in the same boat after the
first of the year.

Maybe there will finally be more time to go fishing ...

--
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Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

On Sun, 4 Oct 2009 10:27:15 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:


I didn't know that there was such a great need for beaded
faces that a new product was needed. To me, this is a solution
looking for a problem.

Robert


It's been a big detail around here for a long time and I've probably
run off several miles of beaded stock for baseboards, casing and face
frames.

The face frames are a little fussy and I've used both applied bead/
quirk, and that worked in the solid. I prefer the solid and feel like
I can turn out good quality joints quickly, using basic shop tools.

I used to love buying new tools. Nowadays I hate anything that goes
on the debit side of the ledger.



Regards,

Tom Watson
http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1/

Tom Watson wrote:

The face frames are a little fussy and I've used both applied bead/
quirk, and that worked in the solid. I prefer the solid and feel like
I can turn out good quality joints quickly, using basic shop tools.

Better man than me, Charlie Brown. I simply haven't done enough of them
to make an apprentice to the pimple on a cabinetmaker's ass.

I used to love buying new tools. Nowadays I hate anything that goes
on the debit side of the ledger.

Just replaced my lost-on-the-job saddle square and, at only $28 for two
from LV, even that minor shop expenditure took some consideration.

I spend a lot on supplies, but tool expenditures are way down for me.

--
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Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

"Swingman" wrote

Just replaced my lost-on-the-job saddle square and, at only $28 for two
from LV, even that minor shop expenditure took some consideration.

That brings up a recent painful, kinda funny thing for me. The love of my
life, who is totally tool clueless, put my combination square underneath a
small leak in the back of my garage. I went to get it the other day, had to
hunt for it, and found it covered with a thick layer of recent rust.

Sooo....., I had to buy a new combination square. I didn't have time to
rehab the old one. I got a stainless steel one this time. Also picked up a
new T bevel because the one I had was not long enough for a new project.

Those are my recent tool purchaces. Not that much, but unexpected. The
good thing is that both tools are much higher quality than what I had
before. And I am going to hide them from my wife!

----- Original Message -----
From:
Newsgroups: rec.woodworking
Sent: Sunday, October 04, 2009 12:27 PM
Subject: Beaded Face Frame - Kreg


On Oct 4, 11:13 am, Tom Watson wrote:

I don't see how that is better than what I've been doing. I bead up
the stock and then remove what needs to be by using a combination of
the chopsaw with the depth set, and the bandsaw to do what the chopsaw
can't.

Yeah, I'm not getting that one. The gloss over the fact that you must
be 100% (as in absolutely no margin of error) accurate on your depth
cuts in the stiles, and perfect in the length of the ears that are cut
off on the rails. Anyone that has tried to match cuts with an Incra
system or any of the other snap on stop systems can testify how hard
that can be. Again, I am looking at that depth adjustment. How many
test cuts would you have to make?

I can see how the acuracy of the cutting depth will be very important and
thinking back, how often do your rails "PRECICELY" measure out in width. I
can say from lot's of experience that my rails can may differ in width by
1/128" from one to the next. this would pose a problem with the Kreg system
I suspect. I think your stock would literally have to be perfectly sized
and perfectly straight. AND I would use my Domino over the pocket hole
screws if I used this system, I think. ;~)



At least if you are building faces the old fashioned way (not as show
in the video with saw blade burned wood, oozing glue, and poor bead
mold placement) you can make up just a bit of inconsistency when you
add your bead mold. With this system, you have no margin for error.

The goober infomercial demo of the old fashoned way was a hoot. I suspect
that if you have precision problems the old way, it is not going to be any
better with the Kreg. Assuming the Kreg is easy to use I felt that it would
create a stronger joint and replace the need for jigs as spacers. I also
thought you could simply use straight edges with no profile or roundovers,
coves, etc. providing the bit cut all the way through the profile on the
stile.
..

Perhaps an in person demo showing "how easy" it is to set up would be the
acid test. I would not want to see the demo with every thing already set
up.

Tom Watson wrote:
On Sun, 04 Oct 2009 11:35:23 -0500, Swingman wrote:

Leon and I were just discussing this on the back channel.

Any one here going to bite?

http://vimeo.com/5577744


I don't see how that is better than what I've been doing. I bead up
the stock and then remove what needs to be by using a combination of
the chopsaw with the depth set, and the bandsaw to do what the chopsaw
can't.

They'll have to do some more convincing to crowbar any money out of my
wallet.

I like the concept, though. Anything that can cut back on "time and
waste" is worth at least a look from me, as I seem to have done a lot of
both on beaded FF's.

Would like to get a hold of a bit and try to jig up from there,
especially if I can get equipment that currently takes up space in shop
involved, like the Multi-Router.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

On Oct 4, 1:30*pm, Swingman wrote:
Tom Watson wrote:
On Sun, 04 Oct 2009 11:35:23 -0500, Swingman wrote:

Leon and I were just discussing this on the back channel.

Any one here going to bite?

http://vimeo.com/5577744

I don't see how that is better than what I've been doing. *I bead up
the stock and then remove what needs to be by using a combination of
the chopsaw with the depth set, and the bandsaw to do what the chopsaw
can't.

They'll have to do some more convincing to crowbar any money out of my
wallet.

I like the concept, though. Anything that can cut back on "time and
waste" is worth at least a look from me, as I seem to have done a lot of
both on beaded FF's.

Would like to get a hold of a bit and try to jig up from there,
especially if I can get equipment that currently takes up space in shop
involved, like the Multi-Router.

--www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

Then there are these guys who also seem to think that beaded face-
frames are de rigueur.
They have a whack of gizmos to deal with that 'problem'.
http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o...oy/Hoffman.jpg

I tend to agree with Robert "The Nail" Shooter that it could be a
solution looking for a problem.
Or, as Angela likes to say: "The answer to the question nobody asked."

Robatoy wrote:


Then there are these guys who also seem to think that beaded face-
frames are de rigueur.
They have a whack of gizmos to deal with that 'problem'.
http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o...oy/Hoffman.jpg

Bet these guys are tickled to see Kreg on the scene, eh?

--
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Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

On Oct 4, 3:25*pm, Swingman wrote:
Robatoy wrote:

Then there are these guys who also seem to think that beaded face-
frames are de rigueur.
They have a whack of gizmos to deal with that 'problem'.
http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o...oy/Hoffman.jpg

Bet these guys are tickled to see Kreg on the scene, eh?


Especially considering the Hoffman nutso-cuckoo prices...

Subject

Beaded Face Frame AKA: Dirt Catcher

I'll pass.

Lew

Swingman wrote:
Leon and I were just discussing this on the back channel.

Any one here going to bite?

http://vimeo.com/5577744

WTF is a bearded face frame?

On Sun, 04 Oct 2009 12:17:28 -0700, jo4hn
wrote:


WTF is a bearded face frame?


You best leave that Maui Wowee **** alone, boy.

It done made you null and void.


watson - who did inhale and still remembers...sorta





Regards,

Tom Watson
http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1/

On Oct 4, 3:17*pm, jo4hn wrote:
Swingman wrote:
Leon and I were just discussing this on the back channel.

Any one here going to bite?

http://vimeo.com/5577744

WTF is a bearded face frame?

A face frame hewn with a bearded axe, of course:

http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/P...uks/125840.jpg

Robatoy wrote:
On Oct 4, 3:17 pm, jo4hn wrote:
Swingman wrote:
Leon and I were just discussing this on the back channel.
Any one here going to bite?
http://vimeo.com/5577744
WTF is a bearded face frame?

A face frame hewn with a bearded axe, of course:

http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/P...uks/125840.jpg

Ah yes ... Watson's Bearded Face Frame Jig.

--
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Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

On Sun, 04 Oct 2009 14:31:25 -0500, Swingman wrote:

Robatoy wrote:
On Oct 4, 3:17 pm, jo4hn wrote:
Swingman wrote:
Leon and I were just discussing this on the back channel.
Any one here going to bite?
http://vimeo.com/5577744
WTF is a bearded face frame?

A face frame hewn with a bearded axe, of course:

http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/P...uks/125840.jpg

Ah yes ... Watson's Bearded Face Frame Jig.



My most useful and sharpest tool is actually Occam's Razor.




Regards,

Tom Watson
http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1/

Tom Watson wrote:
On Sun, 04 Oct 2009 14:31:25 -0500, Swingman wrote:

Robatoy wrote:
On Oct 4, 3:17 pm, jo4hn wrote:
Swingman wrote:
Leon and I were just discussing this on the back channel.
Any one here going to bite?
http://vimeo.com/5577744
WTF is a bearded face frame?
A face frame hewn with a bearded axe, of course:

http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/P...uks/125840.jpg
Ah yes ... Watson's Bearded Face Frame Jig.



My most useful and sharpest tool is actually Occam's Razor.

Simply said ...

--
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Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

"Tom Watson" wrote in message ...
On Sun, 04 Oct 2009 14:31:25 -0500, Swingman wrote:

Robatoy wrote:
On Oct 4, 3:17 pm, jo4hn wrote:
Swingman wrote:
Leon and I were just discussing this on the back channel.
Any one here going to bite?
http://vimeo.com/5577744
WTF is a bearded face frame?

A face frame hewn with a bearded axe, of course:

http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/P...uks/125840.jpg

Ah yes ... Watson's Bearded Face Frame Jig.



My most useful and sharpest tool is actually Occam's Razor.


Sound like a really super tool, but

Where does one find Gordian Knots?? :-)

P D Q



Regards,

Tom Watson
http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1/

On Oct 4, 3:17*pm, jo4hn wrote:
Swingman wrote:
Leon and I were just discussing this on the back channel.

Any one here going to bite?

http://vimeo.com/5577744

WTF is a bearded face frame?

I thought Billy Mays' beard framed his face quite nicely.....

Robatoy wrote:
On Oct 4, 3:17 pm, jo4hn wrote:
Swingman wrote:
Leon and I were just discussing this on the back channel.
Any one here going to bite?
http://vimeo.com/5577744
WTF is a bearded face frame?

I thought Billy Mays' beard framed his face quite nicely.....

You mean that oxy-clean-moron, or is that Jack?
;-)
--
Froz...