"Lew Hodgett" wrote in message
...
"Bill" wrote:
I'd been considering the Grizzly G1023SLW, now I see this G0691.
From what I see, the first one has a routing table built into the
extension
table while the latter saw has a riving knife.

IMHO, the LAST thing you want to do is ask a table saw surface to do dual
duty by mounting a router in it.

I "knew" someone was going to say something like that--and your point is
well taken.
It just looks so, so, so... convenient. I have read at least half of Bill
Hylton's book,
"Woodworking With The Router"--which I thought was enough for someone
who didn't own a router, and he went through the design of a nice router
table in excruciating
detail. It was a good read. Since then I inherited two Craftsman routers
from the mid 70's (1/2 and 1 HP I think, are they worth messing with?).
I'm tempted to buy,
someday, the likes of the DeWalt 1 3/4 HP Plunge and Fixed Router (Combo
Kit).

I think every day about the other projects (benches) you've got me started
on . I grew
up with a "general purpose" bench, and I'll make one of those--with drawers
and
shelves, a machinists vise, and a place to sit (I sketched a detailed
picture), and also
a "minimal" woodworkers bench. Don't laugh about the "sitting down"
part--there are
alot of things in luthiery that I can't imagine trying to do standing up--I
need or want
the added support/stability of the elbows I guess, and I can't imagine
trying to "draw"
standing up.

Bill



It's tough enough trying to keep table saw surfaces free and clear to do
their designed task.

No point in making the job any tougher than it already is.

The G0691 with 50" capacity and what appears to be a standard 3HP Leeson
motor, looks pretty good, especially at the current price.

The next step up IMHO, would be a 5 HP motor.


Lew

"Bill" wrote:

I "knew" someone was going to say something like that--and your
point is well taken.
It just looks so, so, so... convenient. I have read at least half
of Bill Hylton's book,
"Woodworking With The Router"--which I thought was enough for
someone
who didn't own a router, and he went through the design of a nice
router table in excruciating
detail. It was a good read.

Take a look at the NYW unit.

Understand it is the most popular project Norm ever built.

Since then I inherited two Craftsman routers
from the mid 70's (1/2 and 1 HP I think, are they worth messing
with?).

NO!!!

The first time you use one and the bit slips in the collet destroying
a valuable piece of wood, you will understand.

Damn things don't even make good boat anchors.

I'm tempted to buy,
someday, the likes of the DeWalt 1 3/4 HP Plunge and Fixed Router
(Combo Kit).

Not a bad choice, but take a look at Milwaukee.

Several on wreck can offer their experience with big red routers.

Don't laugh about the "sitting down" part

The most important tool in the boat yard is the thinking chair.

Lew

On Wed, 09 Sep 2009 22:44:40 -0400, Upscale wrote:

"Lew Hodgett" wrote in message
It's tough enough trying to keep table saw surfaces free and clear to
do their designed task.


That's a good point for those who use their tablesaw on a daily basis.
But for the occasional hobbyist who's cutting stock one day, surfacing it
another, routing another, finishing another, etc. it works fine.
Especially if said hobbyist is cramped for space. DAMHIKT.

Especially when you leave a raised router bit in the router and then
slide the saw fence into the damned thing. Broke the carbide off the
router bit and dented my nice new add-on fence. I cursed for days.
Fortunately, it was a cheap 1/4" router bit and the router shaft didn't
get bent.


I never leave my router in the table. It stresses the table, the router
plate, and the bolts.

Aside from that, flatness is your key concern. If it's a cast iron wing
like I have, then you could probably hang ten routers off it and it will
stay flat. If it's a wood or laminate construction, then most any router
is going to warp it eventually.

Mine was built as a torsion box and replaces the left wing on the table
saw. Didn't warp in about 15 years. Maybe because I didn't leave the
router in it.

But that's all in the past. I have a new (old) tablesaw and my router
table is now on folding brackets on the end of a flip top tool cart that
holds my planer and thickness sander. Like I said - cramped for
space :-).





--
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw

On Sep 10, 12:11*am, "Lew Hodgett" wrote:
"Bill" wrote:
I "knew" someone was going to say something like that--and your
point is well taken.
It just looks so, so, so... convenient. * I have read at least half
of Bill Hylton's book,
"Woodworking With The Router"--which I thought was enough for
someone
who didn't own a router, and he went through the design of a nice
router table in excruciating
detail. It was a good read.

Take a look at the NYW unit.

Understand it is the most popular project Norm ever built.

*Since then I inherited two Craftsman routers
from the mid 70's (1/2 and 1 HP I think, are they worth messing
with?).

NO!!!

The first time you use one and the bit slips in the collet destroying
a valuable piece of wood, you will understand.

Damn things don't even make good boat anchors.
....
Lew

Lew, I might have to disagree with you on this. I have been as big a
Craftsman basher as any regarding the their drop in quality over the
past 30 years. But during early 70's and before they did build some
good stuff. I have one each early 70's Router, and 7" circular saw
that my wife bought as gifts in the early 70's. Both were of solid
metal construction and both are still doing the job. The only
disadvantage of the router is the 1/4" collet that I just haven't got
around to replacing, but it holds depth fine and is a good second
machine when doing multiple contours.

The old saw is kinda beat up and has had to cord and brushes replaced
but still works fine. When we were starting our house last year, our
framer saw it and offered to trade one of his new Dewalts for it.
"Good looking saw. They don't make them like that anymore!" he said.

I also owned one of their late 70's table saws and I'm glad its gone.

RonB

Lew Hodgett wrote:
"RonB" wrote:
....
past 30 years. But during early 70's and before they did build some
good stuff. I have one each early 70's Router, and 7" circular saw
....
My comment was specifically aimed at early 70's router.

Was warned but didn't listen.

Learned the hard way.

Might want to keep an eye on yours.
....

Like always, it probably all depends on _which_ particular
router/collet--I also have one of similar vintage as did Dad and never
been an issue w/ either of them...and after these number of years I'm
not going to start now being any more wary than ever have been....

Of course, like others, I've mostly gone to others recently owing to the
1/4" collet limitation but I'd not worry for what they're up to.

But, as noted, there were several models to choose from even then.

--

On Thu, 10 Sep 2009 10:55:59 -0500, Larry Blanchard
wrote:

On Wed, 09 Sep 2009 22:44:40 -0400, Upscale wrote:

"Lew Hodgett" wrote in message
It's tough enough trying to keep table saw surfaces free and clear to
do their designed task.


That's a good point for those who use their tablesaw on a daily basis.
But for the occasional hobbyist who's cutting stock one day, surfacing it
another, routing another, finishing another, etc. it works fine.
Especially if said hobbyist is cramped for space. DAMHIKT.

A router lift helps a lot too.

Especially when you leave a raised router bit in the router and then
slide the saw fence into the damned thing. Broke the carbide off the
router bit and dented my nice new add-on fence. I cursed for days.
Fortunately, it was a cheap 1/4" router bit and the router shaft didn't
get bent.


I never leave my router in the table. It stresses the table, the router
plate, and the bolts.

Mine's bolted to the lift. It's the lifts job to make everything
right. I can't believe there is any significant stress or deflection
of the bolts, or the lift itself. A crappy MDF table, perhaps, but my
router table is reinforced pretty well.

Aside from that, flatness is your key concern. If it's a cast iron wing
like I have, then you could probably hang ten routers off it and it will
stay flat. If it's a wood or laminate construction, then most any router
is going to warp it eventually.

Mine was built as a torsion box and replaces the left wing on the table
saw. Didn't warp in about 15 years. Maybe because I didn't leave the
router in it.

But that's all in the past. I have a new (old) tablesaw and my router
table is now on folding brackets on the end of a flip top tool cart that
holds my planer and thickness sander. Like I said - cramped for
space :-).

I'm not exactly cramped (two car garage) but the router table always
seems to be in the way. The saw gets priority on space, over
everything. ;-)

On Wed, 09 Sep 2009 18:01:58 -0500, Larry Blanchard
wrote:

On Wed, 09 Sep 2009 10:11:10 -0700, Jim Weisgram wrote:

Right now, the Griz G0691 is selling for $1300 mail order with free
shipping. I've seen some very favorable user reviews online. Good riving
knife system, good fence, smooth running, etc.

I think that's about the same price as the Steel City.

Yeah, I forgot about Steel City. $1299 for a granite top 3 HP, 50"
rails, riving knife, at Highland Woodworking. Shipping is extra.
Sounds like a good deal to me.

I like having a cast iron top, myself, so I can stick magnets to it. I
don't know if the flatter granite surface is that much better or not.
At least it won't rust.

On Thu, 10 Sep 2009 19:00:50 -0700, Jim Weisgram
wrote:

On Wed, 09 Sep 2009 18:01:58 -0500, Larry Blanchard
wrote:

On Wed, 09 Sep 2009 10:11:10 -0700, Jim Weisgram wrote:

Right now, the Griz G0691 is selling for $1300 mail order with free
shipping. I've seen some very favorable user reviews online. Good riving
knife system, good fence, smooth running, etc.

I think that's about the same price as the Steel City.

Yeah, I forgot about Steel City. $1299 for a granite top 3 HP, 50"
rails, riving knife, at Highland Woodworking. Shipping is extra.
Sounds like a good deal to me.

I like having a cast iron top, myself, so I can stick magnets to it. I
don't know if the flatter granite surface is that much better or not.
At least it won't rust.

It will chip though. I don't know about the Steel City, but at least
one of the granite top saws has a 'T' miter slot; not a good idea,
IMO.

On Thu, 10 Sep 2009 22:21:34 -0500, krw wrote:


Yeah, I forgot about Steel City. $1299 for a granite top 3 HP, 50"
rails, riving knife, at Highland Woodworking. Shipping is extra. Sounds
like a good deal to me.

I like having a cast iron top, myself, so I can stick magnets to it. I
don't know if the flatter granite surface is that much better or not. At
least it won't rust.

It will chip though. I don't know about the Steel City, but at least
one of the granite top saws has a 'T' miter slot; not a good idea, IMO.

Unless things have changed, the Steel City came with either granite or
cast iron.

--
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw

"Lew Hodgett" wrote in message
...
"Bill" wrote:
I have read at least half
of Bill Hylton's book, "Woodworking With The Router"--which I thought was
enough for someone who didn't own a router, and he went through the
design of a nice router table in excruciating detail. It was a good read.



Take a look at the NYW unit.

Understand it is the most popular project Norm ever built.

I located the DVD, "Router 101" (Item#0606), from NewYankee.com (it is
about $40). Is that the video you mean?

Thanks,
Bill

"Bill" wrote:

I located the DVD, "Router 101" (Item#0606), from NewYankee.com
(it is about $40). Is that the video you mean?

No that is something else.

Try item: 0301.

Lew

On Thu, 10 Sep 2009 05:11:22 GMT, the infamous "Lew Hodgett"
scrawled the following:

"Bill" wrote:
Since then I inherited two Craftsman routers
from the mid 70's (1/2 and 1 HP I think, are they worth messing
with?).

NO!!!

The first time you use one and the bit slips in the collet destroying
a valuable piece of wood, you will understand.

Damn things don't even make good boat anchors.

What, you're dissing the ARHA of the Crapsman routers? Searz sells
them with that Automatic Random Height Adjuster built in as a selling
point, sir. :^}

--
"Giving every man a vote has no more made men wise and free
than Christianity has made them good." --H. L. Mencken
---

On Thu, 10 Sep 2009 05:11:22 GMT, the infamous "Lew Hodgett"
scrawled the following:

"Bill" wrote:
Since then I inherited two Craftsman routers
from the mid 70's (1/2 and 1 HP I think, are they worth messing
with?).

NO!!!

The first time you use one and the bit slips in the collet destroying
a valuable piece of wood, you will understand.

Damn things don't even make good boat anchors.

What, you're dissing the ARHA of the Crapsman routers? Searz sells
them with that Automatic Random Height Adjuster built in as a selling
point, sir. :^}

--
"Giving every man a vote has no more made men wise and free
than Christianity has made them good." --H. L. Mencken
---

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 10 Sep 2009 05:11:22 GMT, the infamous "Lew Hodgett"
scrawled the following:

"Bill" wrote:
Since then I inherited two Craftsman routers
from the mid 70's (1/2 and 1 HP I think, are they worth messing
with?).

NO!!!

The first time you use one and the bit slips in the collet destroying
a valuable piece of wood, you will understand.

Damn things don't even make good boat anchors.

What, you're dissing the ARHA of the Crapsman routers? Searz sells
them with that Automatic Random Height Adjuster built in as a selling
point, sir. :^}

That's funny. I've got two HF 1/2 HP Routers that hold their position
exactly. One I use for freehand work, and one I have in a table for quick
work. In my door panel making table I have a good Rigid router though. The
Rigid is a lot better than the HF, and they are all so much better than the
Sears one I have not gotten around to throwing away that it's a joke.

I might have a use for the Sears Router some day. Maybe I'll strip the case
off of it and use it for a motor on something.