Greetings all,

I would like to start getting a good grasp on what I would be looking
for in a first-time tablesaw purchase. And by "tablesaw" I mean anything
from a traditional saw in a table with four legs setup to a cabinet saw.
Left-right tilt doesn't seem to be an issue. What I'm wondering about
is the durability and performance of the saw and related mechanisms.
What are the better manufacturers to look at? What names to stay away
from? For some reason I had been interested in the Jet saws which
feature four sturdy legs similar to 4x4 posts. These appeal to me just
for the fact I could get a broom under them for cleaning. Fence systems
seem to be very high quality these days as compared to many years ago in
high school shop class. The saw would most likely be used for serious
hobby applications with occasional light production work.

The names I'm familiar with are Grizzly, General, Powermatic, Jet and Delta.

Any help or guidance is greatly appreciated.

John

John Wood wrote:
Greetings all,

I would like to start getting a good grasp on what I would be looking
for in a first-time tablesaw purchase. And by "tablesaw" I mean anything
from a traditional saw in a table with four legs setup to a cabinet saw.
Left-right tilt doesn't seem to be an issue. What I'm wondering about
is the durability and performance of the saw and related mechanisms.

What kind of performance (you can buy as much HP as you need)?

Lew Hodgett, a very knowledgeable woodworker, says (tongue in cheek, I
think), that "you don't buy a TS, you buy a fence".

Are you willing to spend $60-$100 on a blade?

Grizzly is the only company from which you can buy directly, I think.

I'm basically in the same boat as you are.

If price is no object, you may wish to consider SawStop.

I hope I wrote something useful! -Bill


What are the better manufacturers to look at? What names to stay away
from? For some reason I had been interested in the Jet saws which
feature four sturdy legs similar to 4x4 posts. These appeal to me just
for the fact I could get a broom under them for cleaning. Fence systems
seem to be very high quality these days as compared to many years ago in
high school shop class. The saw would most likely be used for serious
hobby applications with occasional light production work.

The names I'm familiar with are Grizzly, General, Powermatic, Jet and
Delta.

Any help or guidance is greatly appreciated.

John

Started off in the same position as you about eight years ago, looking
for my retirement machine, with two differences:

- Wanted a cabinet saw
- Was pretty much predisposed to Unisaw because of experience with
some of them in the 70's and 80's.

Looked at a new Unisaw and kept looking. Looked at Jet. Ended up
with a Grizzly 1023s. Very pleased.

RonB

On Sep 8, 11:42*am, John Wood wrote:
Greetings all,

I would like to start getting a good grasp on what I would be looking
for in a first-time tablesaw purchase. And by "tablesaw" I mean anything
from a traditional saw in a table with four legs setup to a cabinet saw.
* Left-right tilt doesn't seem to be an issue. What I'm wondering about
is the durability and performance of the saw and related mechanisms.
What are the better manufacturers to look at? What names to stay away
from? For some reason I had been interested in the Jet saws which
feature four sturdy legs similar to 4x4 posts. These appeal to me just
for the fact I could get a broom under them for cleaning. Fence systems
seem to be very high quality these days as compared to many years ago in
high school shop class. The saw would most likely be used for serious
hobby applications with occasional light production work.

The names I'm familiar with are Grizzly, General, Powermatic, Jet and Delta.

Any help or guidance is greatly appreciated.

John

I purchased the Jet you are talking about years ago. At the time it
was called the Jet SuperSaw, I looks like they have changed it to the
ProShop line. I'm not sure if they still offer the sliding table with
it, but for the most part I find that feature useless and has
prevented me from purchasing a tennoning jig as there is no miter slot
left of the blade. At 1 3/4 HP, it is good for home use. It comes
wired for 110, but it is a simple matter of just moving a couple wires
around to wire it for 220. I never used it on 110 and cannot comment
on the power there, but wired for 220 it has never given me a bit of
grief. I added the router into the extension table, but it looks like
you can order it that way now.

One beef I have with it is the fence. It attaches to the front and
the rear of the table making it hard to fabricate an outfeed table. I
cannot tell from the picture of the ProShop, but it looks like they
changed the design and no longer requires the attachment at the back
of the saw.

Another complaint I have is the dust collection is pretty poor.
Before using it, I usually have to open up the back and vacuum it out
because most if the dust tends to collect in the saw itself instead of
moving off into the dust collector. There is a large plate inside
with holes to allow dust through and I believe the intent was to
collect the larger stuff that might damage a dust collector. For the
most part it just collects almost everything in the saw. Prehaps they
have adresses that issue also.

Hope this helps.
Mark

Along with the other advice, myself and that SteveA guy would recommend
keeping your eyes on whatever sources you have for used gear.

Our recent gloats can attest to the success that can be found.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

Bill wrote:
John Wood wrote:
Greetings all,

I would like to start getting a good grasp on what I would be looking
for in a first-time tablesaw purchase. And by "tablesaw" I mean
anything from a traditional saw in a table with four legs setup to a
cabinet saw. Left-right tilt doesn't seem to be an issue. What I'm
wondering about is the durability and performance of the saw and
related mechanisms.

What kind of performance (you can buy as much HP as you need)?

Lew Hodgett, a very knowledgeable woodworker, says (tongue in cheek, I
think), that "you don't buy a TS, you buy a fence".

Are you willing to spend $60-$100 on a blade?

Grizzly is the only company from which you can buy directly, I think.

I'm basically in the same boat as you are.

If price is no object, you may wish to consider SawStop.

I hope I wrote something useful! -Bill


Bill,

It was useful, thanks.

I'm looking for what i would suppose all good craftsmen are looking for:
A solid workhorse which will run through the day with little or no
trouble. Not continuous but when you need it, it should be there.
As an example, when I put together an electronics project the first
thing I do is turn on my Weller WP35. It is not fancy by any means. But
when I need it, its there. That type of thing.
I understand the "buying a fence" concept. However, after years of using
tabletop saws in the past I need to know there's something under the
table also. :-)

Thanks.

John

-MIKE- wrote:
Along with the other advice, myself and that SteveA guy would recommend
keeping your eyes on whatever sources you have for used gear.

Our recent gloats can attest to the success that can be found.



I saw that recent gloat.

Jeezaloo. Nice.

:-)

Good used is always a consideration.

Thanks.

John

John Wood wrote:
Good used is always a consideration.


Major powertool are like cars.
I prefer to let someone else take the big hit in value, then get it from
them.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

My opinion is to get as much saw for the money you are willing to
spend. For instance, I would prefer a Grizzly cabinet saw to a Jet or
Dewalt hybrid (4x4 legs) for the same price. I would prefer a hybrid
to a Saw Stop contractor style.

Cabinet saws have the solidity (is that a word) that just brings a
level of non-vibrating quality to the cut that can't be beat. A good
fence is a must but you can put a great fence on any saw nowdays.

Here is one for comments. Here is the heirarchy as I see it in terms
of cost and value.

Top to bottom:

Saw Stop Cabinet saw
Unisaw
Grizzly cabinet
Hybrid's (Jet or Dewalt or maybe Craftsman) Sorry, I still love
Craftsman.

FYI: I think the biggest way that Grizzly keeps their prices lower is
because they don't sell through a dealer\distributro so they have a
20-30% advantage, although less availability but with the internet
they are doing just fine. So they might be one step below Delta in
quality but that is a pretty small step these days with the gap
closing in both directions.

On Sep 8, 9:42*am, John Wood wrote:
Greetings all,

I would like to start getting a good grasp on what I would be looking
for in a first-time tablesaw purchase. And by "tablesaw" I mean anything
from a traditional saw in a table with four legs setup to a cabinet saw.
* Left-right tilt doesn't seem to be an issue. What I'm wondering about
is the durability and performance of the saw and related mechanisms.
What are the better manufacturers to look at? What names to stay away
from? For some reason I had been interested in the Jet saws which
feature four sturdy legs similar to 4x4 posts. These appeal to me just
for the fact I could get a broom under them for cleaning. Fence systems
seem to be very high quality these days as compared to many years ago in
high school shop class. The saw would most likely be used for serious
hobby applications with occasional light production work.

The names I'm familiar with are Grizzly, General, Powermatic, Jet and Delta.

Any help or guidance is greatly appreciated.

John

On Sep 8, 12:09*pm, RonB wrote:
Started off in the same position as you about eight years ago, looking
for my retirement machine, with two differences:

*- Wanted a cabinet saw
*- Was pretty much predisposed to Unisaw because of experience with
some of them in the 70's and 80's.

Looked at a new Unisaw and kept looking. *Looked at Jet. *Ended up
with a Grizzly 1023s. *Very pleased.

Interesting. I did just the same (looked for a retirement saw)
earlier this year and went the opposite direction. I started with the
Griz (G0690) and settled on the Unisaw. By the time I included
shipping the difference in price wasn't significant, so went with the
Delta.

"John Wood" wrote in message
news:eQvpm.34663$5n1.20540@attbi_s21...
Greetings all,

I would like to start getting a good grasp on what I would be looking for
in a first-time tablesaw purchase. And by "tablesaw" I mean anything from
a traditional saw in a table with four legs setup to a cabinet saw.
Left-right tilt doesn't seem to be an issue. What I'm wondering about is
the durability and performance of the saw and related mechanisms. What are
the better manufacturers to look at? What names to stay away from? For
some reason I had been interested in the Jet saws which feature four
sturdy legs similar to 4x4 posts. These appeal to me just for the fact I
could get a broom under them for cleaning. Fence systems seem to be very
high quality these days as compared to many years ago in high school shop
class. The saw would most likely be used for serious hobby applications
with occasional light production work.

The names I'm familiar with are Grizzly, General, Powermatic, Jet and
Delta.

Any help or guidance is greatly appreciated.

John

Especially if you are a beginner and price is not as important as staying
safe, consider no other than SawStop. They come in Contractor, Cabinet, and
Comercial versions. The price difference between any of those and the
cheapest comparable style saw is way way less that the cost to go to the
emergency room.

If I wear out my Jet cabinet saw the SawStop will probably be my next.

With proper dust collection a cabinet type saw will be the best bet.

And now,

;~) The single most asked question in this group that I paste this rubber
stamp answer to.
Both saws will make all the same cuts. Some easier on the left tilt, some
easier on the right tilt. Strictly personal preference. But if you need to
be steered one way or the other,
Advantages:
Are you right handed?
Get the left tilt.
1. Commonly the Left tilt has the bevel wheel on the right side and is
easily turned with your Right hand.
2. Left tilt can rip a narrow bevel with out having to move the fence to the
left side of the blade.
3. Left tilt allows the blade arbor nut to be removed with your right hand.
4. Left tilt allows your to remove the arbor nut and turn it in the
direction that you would expect.
5. With a Left tilt, when both edges of a board are beveled, the sharp point
of the
bevel is up on the fence when cutting the second bevel as opposed to the
bottom of the fence where it might slip under.
6. RIGHT tilt if you are left handed. The bevel wheel is commonly on the
left side of the saw.
7. RIGHT tilt if you "must" use the fence distance indicator when using a
stacked dado blade set. The blades stack left, away from the fence. The
indicator remains accurate. On the left tilt, the blades stack towards the
fence and makes the indicator inaccurate. In this case use a tape measure to
set the fence distance.
8. RIGHT tilt allows you to remove the arbor nut with your left hand but the
nut must be turned clockwise to loosen. Bassackwards to normalcy.
If considering a cabinet saw, with wide 50" rip capacity.
The Left tilt will most often afford you the most storage room under the
right table extension. The RIGHT tilt has an access door in that location
that will demand room to open. The left tilt allows you to have access to
the motor and or the insides of the cabinet from the more open left side of
the saw with out having to crawl under the right extension table. Very nice
if you ever happen to drop the arbor nut inside the cabinet. If you are
considering getting a replacement saw and considering going to the opposite
tilt this time consider that the miter slots may not be the same distance
from the blade when comparing a left to right tilt saw. This may or may not
be of concern but something to consider.

With this all in mind, more and more manufacturers are building only in
right tilt versions as they tend to be more user friendly and safer in some
operations.

I totally agree with Mike, the used market via Craig's list, classsified
etc. are a great source for top notch used equipment that you might
otherwise never be able to afford.

In fact, eBay is also a great source for surplus and overstocked equipment
as they tend to give greater discounting. If I did not pick up the 12"
Rockwell saw, the Powermatic PM3000 TS (14"Blade) w/ 50"Accufence extension
table and ci extensions for 1995.00 is a STEAL....


SteveA

"-MIKE-" wrote in message
...
Along with the other advice, myself and that SteveA guy would recommend
keeping your eyes on whatever sources you have for used gear.

Our recent gloats can attest to the success that can be found.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

wrote:
On Sep 8, 12:09 pm, RonB wrote:
Started off in the same position as you about eight years ago, looking
for my retirement machine, with two differences:

- Wanted a cabinet saw
- Was pretty much predisposed to Unisaw because of experience with
some of them in the 70's and 80's.

Looked at a new Unisaw and kept looking. Looked at Jet. Ended up
with a Grizzly 1023s. Very pleased.

Interesting. I did just the same (looked for a retirement saw)
earlier this year and went the opposite direction. I started with the
Griz (G0690) and settled on the Unisaw. By the time I included
shipping the difference in price wasn't significant, so went with the
Delta.


I just had look at the Unisaw video. Does the saw live up to
expectations as presented in the video?

John

RonB wrote:
Started off in the same position as you about eight years ago, looking
for my retirement machine, with two differences:

- Wanted a cabinet saw
- Was pretty much predisposed to Unisaw because of experience with
some of them in the 70's and 80's.

Looked at a new Unisaw and kept looking. Looked at Jet. Ended up
with a Grizzly 1023s. Very pleased.

RonB

I'm curious. What did you feel were the weak points of the Unisaw?

John

There's an outfit called IRS Auctions (irsauctions.com) that handles a
lot of surplus industrial equipment. Lots of TS every week. The rub is
that unless you can inspect the item, you're relying on pix. Also, you
need to arrange your own shipping and for a TS that will be a pain.
They've got a Unisaw at the Howard Miller Clock Co. with a current bid
of $75 closing on 9/16.

SteveA wrote:
I totally agree with Mike, the used market via Craig's list, classsified
etc. are a great source for top notch used equipment that you might
otherwise never be able to afford.

In fact, eBay is also a great source for surplus and overstocked equipment
as they tend to give greater discounting. If I did not pick up the 12"
Rockwell saw, the Powermatic PM3000 TS (14"Blade) w/ 50"Accufence extension
table and ci extensions for 1995.00 is a STEAL....


SteveA

"-MIKE-" wrote in message
...
Along with the other advice, myself and that SteveA guy would recommend
keeping your eyes on whatever sources you have for used gear.

Our recent gloats can attest to the success that can be found.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

Looked at a new Unisaw and kept looking. *Looked at Jet. *Ended up
with a Grizzly 1023s. *Very pleased.

RonB

I'm curious. What did you feel were the weak points of the Unisaw?

John

This was around 2001 and my biggest problem was disappointment. I had
used an older Unisaw in a college cabinet class during the late 1970's
and was impressed. Also, a neighbor had one in the same time period.
When I looked at the new ones the instant impression was cheaper build
+ high price. The hand-wheel locks were cheaper looking (and I
believe eventually picked up some plastic). The motor cover was
cheap. The top finish was not what I remembered. Another problem
was I was having trouble even finding one without the side table and
extensions. At that time I didn't have the space and the price was in
the $1,500 - $1.600 range. The JET was actually a better looking
machine and in a very similar price range. (Of course the Powermatic
was a desirable saw too; but I couldn't justify $2K for a machine
(Did, however, eventually buy a PM jointer)).

A friend steered me toward Grizzly. I took advantage of their
customer referral service and was able to speak to a local owner who
was very pleased with his machine. About that time I was able to
travel to Springfield and got a very good demonstration from a Grizzly
salesman . Actually, other than color, the 1023s reminded me very
much of the Unisaw of old. I ended up buying a 1023s for about $875+
$75 shipping (again 2001 prices). Never been sorry.

At the time I purchased my 1023, the 1023SL had just been introduced.
I was tempted, but I am also hesitant to buy from the front-end of a
production run. But, from what I have heard the SL is a good
machine. One strong point of the 1023 line is the Shop Fox Classic
fence. It has been compared with the Biesmeyer in several reviews and
always favorably. It seldom needs to be readjusted and is HEAVY DUTY.

BTW, our son bought the Grizzly G0444Z about three years ago, and I
got to use it during the finish of his home. It is lower powered but
shares several attributes with the bigger Grizzly (cast table
extensions, Aluminum Version of the Shop Fox Classic - also a good
fence.) It is a contractor type saw but the stand is very sturdy
compared to some other machines.

Good Luck. I shared you decision nervousness but I am pleased.

Whereabouts are you? Most big cities have at least one shop that deals in
used tools. That, along with scanning craigs, is a great way to find some
pretty great machinery at great prices.

Whether you go new or used, read up (lots of great sources online) on
aligning and setup of tablesaws. Many 1st time buyers fail to understand
the importance of a proper setup. Setup includes the floor under the saw.

I understand the advice on cabinet saws vs. contractor saws... I've used
both and have no real preference. I've always owned a contractor (Rockwell
(Delta) for years and now a Powermatic). They have always done a fine job
(see advice on setup).

I really shouldn't say this... I'll probably cut my hand off tomorrow. The
Stop Saw (or whatever it's called) is nice but it's no substitute for good
(and unwavering) safety practices. Know where the blade is and where your
body parts are. Don't let the two try to occupy the same space. Don't
rush. Don't make a single cut without thinking it through first. Maintain
a healthy fear of the machine.

When you get the saw, spend time making stuff. That is to say, get to know
the tool. Don't expect your first project to be perfect because you got a
good tool. You are still doing the work. (Actually as I think about this
one, if I owned a cabinet saw and got to know it and felt as comfortable as
I do on my own saw, I might well come to change my mind about not having a
preference. (grin))

Ed

On Tue, 08 Sep 2009 16:42:50 +0000, John Wood wrote:

The names I'm familiar with are Grizzly, General, Powermatic, Jet and
Delta.

Any help or guidance is greatly appreciated.

Everybody's got their own opinion on this one. I'd rank them Sawstop,
Powermatic, General, Jet, Delta, Grizzly. That's just cabinet saws.

If you don't count the safety features, Powermatic is just as good as
Sawstop.

I haven't checked out the "new" Unisaw. That might change my rankings.

Steel City has/had a small cabinet saw that has a downsized motor so it
will run on 110. I liked the looks of it pretty well, but both the saw
and the company are new so there's no history. Check:

http://www.steelcitytoolworks.com/products_tools.cfm
section=2&category=12&tool=35900


If a contractors saw will do you, Home Depot has a pretty good bang for
the buck.

--
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw

On Sep 8, 2:28*pm, "SteveA" wrote:
I totally agree with Mike, the used market via Craig's list, classsified
etc. are a great source for top notch used equipment that you might
otherwise never be able to afford.

In fact, eBay is also a great source for surplus and overstocked equipment
as they tend to give greater discounting. If I did not pick up the 12"
Rockwell saw, the Powermatic PM3000 TS (14"Blade) w/ 50"Accufence extension
table and ci extensions for 1995.00 is a STEAL....


Given our times this is pretty good advice. It is unfortunate, but I
suspect even the classified's and pawn shops might be a source to
check out. With the condition of the economy there might be a lot of
folks selling equipment.

RonB

You are on the correct track by researching ...

From the replies you have gotten so far, the only item I can add is if you
haven't yet, you should define your requirements, current and future, and
short list those saws that meet it.

Only knowing that you are looking for a good tablesaw I suggest the you
look at the Ridgid 3650 / 3660 table saw.

I have had mine for 3 years now, and continue to be extremely happy with it.
It is heavy cast iron, good motor, belt driven blade, 36" rip fence, very
good solid fence, repeatable accuracy and good price.
I have not had to make any adjustments yet. The only downside is the dust
collection port is not as good as it should be.

When I was researching mine, I asked friends and co-workers what saw they
had and found that this was common,
so I was able to go a check a few out that had some use on them.

If your budget and shop space are unlimited, then there probably are better
saws available, but still I think you would be remiss if you did not look at
if only to cross it off your list.


"John Wood" wrote in message
news:eQvpm.34663$5n1.20540@attbi_s21...
Greetings all,

I would like to start getting a good grasp on what I would be looking for
in a first-time tablesaw purchase. And by "tablesaw" I mean anything from
a traditional saw in a table with four legs setup to a cabinet saw.
Left-right tilt doesn't seem to be an issue. What I'm wondering about is
the durability and performance of the saw and related mechanisms. What are
the better manufacturers to look at? What names to stay away from? For
some reason I had been interested in the Jet saws which feature four
sturdy legs similar to 4x4 posts. These appeal to me just for the fact I
could get a broom under them for cleaning. Fence systems seem to be very
high quality these days as compared to many years ago in high school shop
class. The saw would most likely be used for serious hobby applications
with occasional light production work.

The names I'm familiar with are Grizzly, General, Powermatic, Jet and
Delta.

Any help or guidance is greatly appreciated.

John

"Leon" wrote in message news:-
when both edges of a board are beveled, the sharp point of the bevel is up

With this all in mind, more and more manufacturers are building only in
right tilt versions as they tend to be more user friendly and safer in
some
operations.

Aside from the bevelled edge you did mention, you've centred most of your
argument around the arbour nut. There's much more practical reasons for left
tilt other than that which I'd consider a minor concern. After all, how
often does the blade get changed by the average woodworker?

1) The most important reason for left tilt (which alluded to) with a
bevelled edge on a left tilt and that is that it wouldn't bind under the
bottom edge of the fence where there's space to get caught, minimal as it
is.

2) The second thing is that when cutting a bevelled edge, it's leaning over
the blade cutting it not and not prone to getting trapped under an angled
blade leaning over it causing increased potential for kickback.

3) A third reason is when cutting a bevelled edge, possible tear-out is
consigned to the inner edge and not the sharp edge, making for sharper
tear-out free bevel cuts.

4) Another minor consideration is that a tilted motor takes up space and a
left tilt would take up cabinet space under extension wing area where space
is often wasted anyway. A few inches floor space makes a big difference to
many space limited woodworkers.

All of these things are considerations to avoid when using a right tilt
table saw with the fence on the right side of the blade.

IMHO.

"Larry Blanchard" wrote in message
Everybody's got their own opinion on this one. I'd rank them Sawstop,
Powermatic, General, Jet, Delta, Grizzly. That's just cabinet saws.

And then, there's other considerations for some people. My main
consideration is that I use a wheelchair and to date, General is the *only*
manufacturer that I know of that builds a lowered line of big hardware.
(without increased prices I might add). I closely examined a Sawstop at one
point and it contains too much hardware to lower the table to anything
approaching comfortable working height from a sitting position. Couple my
need with people who may need to or like to sit at their machinery or who
might be of lowered stature and that consideration is amplified.

On Tue, 08 Sep 2009 20:55:56 GMT, John Wood
wrote:

wrote:
On Sep 8, 12:09 pm, RonB wrote:
Started off in the same position as you about eight years ago, looking
for my retirement machine, with two differences:

- Wanted a cabinet saw
- Was pretty much predisposed to Unisaw because of experience with
some of them in the 70's and 80's.

Looked at a new Unisaw and kept looking. Looked at Jet. Ended up
with a Grizzly 1023s. Very pleased.

Interesting. I did just the same (looked for a retirement saw)
earlier this year and went the opposite direction. I started with the
Griz (G0690) and settled on the Unisaw. By the time I included
shipping the difference in price wasn't significant, so went with the
Delta.


I just had look at the Unisaw video. Does the saw live up to
expectations as presented in the video?

Haven't seen the video. I have no complaints about the saw. It's
certainly powerful enough to cut anything I'm likely to throw at it.
The table is a bit on the cheesy side so I'm planning (unless someone
has good reasons otherwise) to replace the table with an IKEA beech
countertop (with a bit of rework). I have better uses the space my
router table takes so I was planning on putting the lift in the saw
table. The table is too thin to take the lift and T-Tracks.

The IKEA top is about 1/4 the price of any oak butcher block I can
find. There is an IKEA store in Atlanta, so it's no problem fetching
it. Shipping for these things is significant.

http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/60057852

On Tue, 8 Sep 2009 15:26:30 -0700 (PDT), RonB
wrote:


Looked at a new Unisaw and kept looking. *Looked at Jet. *Ended up
with a Grizzly 1023s. *Very pleased.

RonB

I'm curious. What did you feel were the weak points of the Unisaw?

John

This was around 2001 and my biggest problem was disappointment. I had
used an older Unisaw in a college cabinet class during the late 1970's
and was impressed. Also, a neighbor had one in the same time period.
When I looked at the new ones the instant impression was cheaper build
+ high price. The hand-wheel locks were cheaper looking (and I
believe eventually picked up some plastic). The motor cover was
cheap. The top finish was not what I remembered. Another problem
was I was having trouble even finding one without the side table and
extensions. At that time I didn't have the space and the price was in
the $1,500 - $1.600 range.

My Unisaw does have both extensions (a requirement), and the 50"
Biesemeyer fence. Space wasn't an issue for the saw. ;-) I paid
$1600 for it, in March this year, including shipping (Amazon).

The wheels and locks are all metal and the motor cover fiberglass. I
suppose fiberglass could be called "cheap" but it's pretty solid.

The JET was actually a better looking
machine and in a very similar price range. (Of course the Powermatic
was a desirable saw too; but I couldn't justify $2K for a machine
(Did, however, eventually buy a PM jointer)).

The equivalent Jet was quite a bit more than what I paid for the
Unisaw. PM was out of the question. If I were going that much I'd
have bought either the new Unisaw or SawStop. SWMBO would have had a
fit (likely not) if I'd spent that much though.

snipped good information about the Griz

"krw" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 08 Sep 2009 20:55:56 GMT, John Wood
wrote:


I just had look at the Unisaw video. Does the saw live up to
expectations as presented in the video?

Haven't seen the video. I have no complaints about the saw. It's
certainly powerful enough to cut anything I'm likely to throw at it.
The table is a bit on the cheesy side so I'm planning (unless someone
has good reasons otherwise) to replace the table with an IKEA beech
countertop (with a bit of rework). I have better uses the space my
router table takes so I was planning on putting the lift in the saw
table. The table is too thin to take the lift and T-Tracks.

It took me a few moments to realize that the cheesy table that you are
talking about is the right extension table, right?


The IKEA top is about 1/4 the price of any oak butcher block I can
find. There is an IKEA store in Atlanta, so it's no problem fetching
it. Shipping for these things is significant.

With a nice capable saw like that,,,,, why not build your own? If you think
it is cheesy because of the melemine top on MDF? The one on my cabinet saw
has held up pretty well for the last 10 years. While the Ikea beech top may
be nice, you do want the top to be as slick as possible to help prevent
drag. And a surface that resists stuff like glue soaking in.

John Wood wrote:

Greetings all,

I would like to start getting a good grasp on what I would be looking
for in a first-time tablesaw purchase. And by "tablesaw" I mean anything
from a traditional saw in a table with four legs setup to a cabinet saw.
Left-right tilt doesn't seem to be an issue. What I'm wondering about
is the durability and performance of the saw and related mechanisms.
What are the better manufacturers to look at? What names to stay away
from? For some reason I had been interested in the Jet saws which
feature four sturdy legs similar to 4x4 posts. These appeal to me just
for the fact I could get a broom under them for cleaning. Fence systems
seem to be very high quality these days as compared to many years ago in
high school shop class. The saw would most likely be used for serious
hobby applications with occasional light production work.

The names I'm familiar with are Grizzly, General, Powermatic, Jet and
Delta.

Any help or guidance is greatly appreciated.

John

Talking about Ebay. 3 yrs ago I bought a hardly used Jet JWCS-10A-PF Cabinet
Saw for 375.00. The guy used it twice to cut plywood. There wasn't even a
scratch in the paint. And he threw in a bunch of other stuff. If you live
in a fairly big city or willing to travel a bit, you can't beat the
price!!!

--
"You can lead them to LINUX
but you can't make them THINK"
Running Mandriva release 2008.0 free-i586 using KDE on i586
Website Address http://rentmyhusband.biz/

On Tue, 8 Sep 2009 20:36:03 -0500, "Leon"
wrote:


"krw" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 08 Sep 2009 20:55:56 GMT, John Wood
wrote:


I just had look at the Unisaw video. Does the saw live up to
expectations as presented in the video?

Haven't seen the video. I have no complaints about the saw. It's
certainly powerful enough to cut anything I'm likely to throw at it.
The table is a bit on the cheesy side so I'm planning (unless someone
has good reasons otherwise) to replace the table with an IKEA beech
countertop (with a bit of rework). I have better uses the space my
router table takes so I was planning on putting the lift in the saw
table. The table is too thin to take the lift and T-Tracks.

It took me a few moments to realize that the cheesy table that you are
talking about is the right extension table, right?

Yes.

The IKEA top is about 1/4 the price of any oak butcher block I can
find. There is an IKEA store in Atlanta, so it's no problem fetching
it. Shipping for these things is significant.

With a nice capable saw like that,,,,, why not build your own? If you think
it is cheesy because of the melemine top on MDF? The one on my cabinet saw
has held up pretty well for the last 10 years.

Melemine on thin MDF. It's not that the thing is going to fall apart,
rather the MDF is too thin to dado in T-Track. I could probably beef
up the bottom enough for the router lift. I figured that the 1-1/4
thickness would have plenty of material left after the T-Track slot
was hogged out.

While the Ikea beech top may
be nice, you do want the top to be as slick as possible to help prevent
drag. And a surface that resists stuff like glue soaking in.

I figured poly and wax would resist glue pretty well. It seems to
work well on the Ash (it's what I have on hand) cauls I made recently.

On Tue, 8 Sep 2009 16:41:08 -0700 (PDT), RonB
wrote:

On Sep 8, 2:28*pm, "SteveA" wrote:
I totally agree with Mike, the used market via Craig's list, classsified
etc. are a great source for top notch used equipment that you might
otherwise never be able to afford.

In fact, eBay is also a great source for surplus and overstocked equipment
as they tend to give greater discounting. If I did not pick up the 12"
Rockwell saw, the Powermatic PM3000 TS (14"Blade) w/ 50"Accufence extension
table and ci extensions for 1995.00 is a STEAL....


Given our times this is pretty good advice. It is unfortunate, but I
suspect even the classified's and pawn shops might be a source to
check out. With the condition of the economy there might be a lot of
folks selling equipment.

I'm sure there are deals to be had (the recent gloats as evidence) but
I didn't see any real deals when I was looking. There were a lot of
questionable deals too (e.g. $1000 for a delta hybrid that was
advertised as a Unisaw).

On Tue, 08 Sep 2009 18:40:15 -0500, Larry Blanchard
wrote:

On Tue, 08 Sep 2009 16:42:50 +0000, John Wood wrote:

The names I'm familiar with are Grizzly, General, Powermatic, Jet and
Delta.

Any help or guidance is greatly appreciated.

Everybody's got their own opinion on this one. I'd rank them Sawstop,
Powermatic, General, Jet, Delta, Grizzly. That's just cabinet saws.

I have the Grizzly 1023S and I am very happy with it, and yet I
believe your rankings are about right.

The OP's main criteria is durability, and all these saws are going to
last a long time.

I suggest the OP should put safety on the criteria list. Get a saw
with a riving knife, which all models released in the last year or so
have. Older models like my Grizz 1023 don't have one.

And if you can afford the Sawstop, get that.

"John Wood" wrote

I would like to start getting a good grasp on what I would be looking for
in a first-time tablesaw purchase. And by "tablesaw" I mean anything from
a traditional saw in a table with four legs setup to a cabinet saw.

Though it starts from first principles and doesn't give a clue about trade
names, John might find the following of some use:

http://tinyurl.com/n9gyca

Jeff

--
Jeff Gorman, West Yorkshire, UK
email : Username is amgron
ISP is clara.co.uk
www.amgron.clara.net

I purchased a Steel City saw about a year ago - very happy with it. I
got the steel top, not the granite - that one just didn't seem very
well thought out to me. As for the steel top saw that I ended up with,
I couldn't be happier. I had to call the company about one of the hand
wheels not turning freely and they were extremely helpful, shipped a
replacement part next day air at no cost, and made me feel very well
supported. I would buy from them again without hesitation.

Steel City has/had a small cabinet saw that has a downsized motor so it
will run on 110. *I liked the looks of it pretty well, but both the saw
and the company are new so there's no history.

John Wood wrote:
Greetings all,

I would like to start getting a good grasp on what I would be looking
for in a first-time tablesaw purchase. And by "tablesaw" I mean
anything from a traditional saw in a table with four legs setup to a
cabinet saw. Left-right tilt doesn't seem to be an issue. What I'm
wondering about is the durability and performance of the saw and related
mechanisms.
What are the better manufacturers to look at? What names to stay away
from? For some reason I had been interested in the Jet saws which
feature four sturdy legs similar to 4x4 posts. These appeal to me just
for the fact I could get a broom under them for cleaning. Fence
systems seem to be very high quality these days as compared to many
years ago in high school shop class. The saw would most likely be
used for serious hobby applications with occasional light production work.

The names I'm familiar with are Grizzly, General, Powermatic, Jet and
Delta.
Any help or guidance is greatly appreciated.

FWIW, I think you get the most bang for your buck with Grizzly cabinet
saws - they are solid and reliable.. Certainly nothing wrong with the
others you list but I think Jet is over priced...their tools seem to me to
be much the same as Grizzly with a bit of cosmetic change.

Whichever you decide on, get at least 3HP and 220v.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

On Wed, 09 Sep 2009 00:00:24 -0700, Jim Weisgram
wrote:

On Tue, 08 Sep 2009 18:40:15 -0500, Larry Blanchard
wrote:

On Tue, 08 Sep 2009 16:42:50 +0000, John Wood wrote:

The names I'm familiar with are Grizzly, General, Powermatic, Jet and
Delta.

Any help or guidance is greatly appreciated.

Everybody's got their own opinion on this one. I'd rank them Sawstop,
Powermatic, General, Jet, Delta, Grizzly. That's just cabinet saws.

I have the Grizzly 1023S and I am very happy with it, and yet I
believe your rankings are about right.

The OP's main criteria is durability, and all these saws are going to
last a long time.

I suggest the OP should put safety on the criteria list. Get a saw
with a riving knife, which all models released in the last year or so
have. Older models like my Grizz 1023 don't have one.

And if you can afford the Sawstop, get that.

There is one other thing. A cabinet saw is going to give you the
durability you are looking for; more so than a hybrid or contractors
saw.

The latest versions of the Delta Unisaw, Powermatic PM2000, Sawstop
cabinet saws are going in the range of $2500-$3300.

Right now, the Griz G0691 is selling for $1300 mail order with free
shipping. I've seen some very favorable user reviews online. Good
riving knife system, good fence, smooth running, etc.

Apparently the Shop Fox mobile base isn't solid enough for the weight
of this saw. If you want a mobile base, don't get the Shop Fox.

But still, that leaves you with about $1200 or more for wood or more
tools.

On Sep 9, 12:11*pm, Jim Weisgram
wrote:
On Wed, 09 Sep 2009 00:00:24 -0700, Jim Weisgram



wrote:
On Tue, 08 Sep 2009 18:40:15 -0500, Larry Blanchard
wrote:

On Tue, 08 Sep 2009 16:42:50 +0000, John Wood wrote:

The names I'm familiar with are Grizzly, General, Powermatic, Jet and
Delta.

Any help or guidance is greatly appreciated.

Everybody's got their own opinion on this one. *I'd rank them Sawstop,
Powermatic, General, Jet, Delta, Grizzly. *That's just cabinet saws.

I have the Grizzly 1023S and I am very happy with it, and yet I
believe your rankings are about right.

The OP's main criteria is durability, and all these saws are going to
last a long time.

I suggest the OP should put safety on the criteria list. Get a saw
with a riving knife, which all models released in the last year or so
have. Older models like my Grizz 1023 don't have one.

And if you can afford the Sawstop, get that.

There is one other thing. A cabinet saw is going to give you the
durability you are looking for; more so than a hybrid or contractors
saw.

The latest versions of the Delta Unisaw, Powermatic PM2000, Sawstop
cabinet saws are going in the range of $2500-$3300.

Amazon has the older X5 Unisaw for $2100.

Right now, the Griz G0691 is selling for $1300 mail order with free
shipping. I've seen some very favorable user reviews online. Good
riving knife system, good fence, smooth running, etc.

At the prices today, I would have bought the Griz G0691 and indeed was
just about to when Amazon had a sale on the Unisaw. I got the Unisaw
with Biesemeyer 50" fence for $1600 vs. just shy of $1500 for the
equivalent G0690.

Apparently the Shop Fox mobile base isn't solid enough for the weight
of this saw. If you want a mobile base, don't get the Shop Fox.

But still, that leaves you with about $1200 or more for wood or more
tools.

Yes, that's sure a good argument for the Griz. ...one that would have
swayed me.

On Wed, 09 Sep 2009 10:11:10 -0700, Jim Weisgram wrote:

Right now, the Griz G0691 is selling for $1300 mail order with free
shipping. I've seen some very favorable user reviews online. Good riving
knife system, good fence, smooth running, etc.

I think that's about the same price as the Steel City.

--
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw

"Jim Weisgram" wrote in message
...
I have the Grizzly 1023S and I am very happy with it, and yet I
believe your rankings are about right.

The OP's main criteria is durability, and all these saws are going to
last a long time.

I suggest the OP should put safety on the criteria list. Get a saw
with a riving knife, which all models released in the last year or so
have. Older models like my Grizz 1023 don't have one.

And if you can afford the Sawstop, get that.

There is one other thing. A cabinet saw is going to give you the
durability you are looking for; more so than a hybrid or contractors
saw.

The latest versions of the Delta Unisaw, Powermatic PM2000, Sawstop
cabinet saws are going in the range of $2500-$3300.

Right now, the Griz G0691 is selling for $1300 mail order with free
shipping. I've seen some very favorable user reviews online. Good
riving knife system, good fence, smooth running, etc.

Apparently the Shop Fox mobile base isn't solid enough for the weight
of this saw. If you want a mobile base, don't get the Shop Fox.

But still, that leaves you with about $1200 or more for wood or more
tools.

I had been considering the Grizzly G1023SLW, now I see this G0691.
From what I see, the first one has a routing table built into the extension
table while the latter saw has a riving knife. What is it that I don't see?
Should I assume the G0691 is better because it's a newer model?
I have 220 service so that's not an issue. I'd sort of like the routing
table,
and a riving knife and a mobile base! Does another cabinet saw come
to mind meeting this criteria?

Bill

"Bill" wrote:
I'd been considering the Grizzly G1023SLW, now I see this G0691.
From what I see, the first one has a routing table built into the
extension
table while the latter saw has a riving knife.

IMHO, the LAST thing you want to do is ask a table saw surface to do
dual duty by mounting a router in it.

It's tough enough trying to keep table saw surfaces free and clear to
do their designed task.

No point in making the job any tougher than it already is.

The G0691 with 50" capacity and what appears to be a standard 3HP
Leeson motor, looks pretty good, especially at the current price.

The next step up IMHO, would be a 5 HP motor.


Lew

"Lew Hodgett" wrote in message
It's tough enough trying to keep table saw surfaces free and clear to
do their designed task.

Especially when you leave a raised router bit in the router and then slide
the saw fence into the damned thing. Broke the carbide off the router bit
and dented my nice new add-on fence. I cursed for days. Fortunately, it was
a cheap 1/4" router bit and the router shaft didn't get bent.

Aside from that, flatness is your key concern. If it's a cast iron wing like
I have, then you could probably hang ten routers off it and it will stay
flat. If it's a wood or laminate construction, then most any router is going
to warp it eventually.

Subject

Just another data point.

Looks like Delta is still offering the 10" Contractor's Saw.

36-981 is listed for under $1K retail.

30" rails, 1-3/4 HP, 115/230, Unifence with cast wings and MDF table
on right.

Throw in a mobile base and you are good to go.

Mine was a better saw than I deserved.

Lew

On Wed, 9 Sep 2009 21:00:26 -0400, "Bill"
wrote:


"Jim Weisgram" wrote in message
.. .
I have the Grizzly 1023S and I am very happy with it, and yet I
believe your rankings are about right.

The OP's main criteria is durability, and all these saws are going to
last a long time.

I suggest the OP should put safety on the criteria list. Get a saw
with a riving knife, which all models released in the last year or so
have. Older models like my Grizz 1023 don't have one.

And if you can afford the Sawstop, get that.

There is one other thing. A cabinet saw is going to give you the
durability you are looking for; more so than a hybrid or contractors
saw.

The latest versions of the Delta Unisaw, Powermatic PM2000, Sawstop
cabinet saws are going in the range of $2500-$3300.

Right now, the Griz G0691 is selling for $1300 mail order with free
shipping. I've seen some very favorable user reviews online. Good
riving knife system, good fence, smooth running, etc.

Apparently the Shop Fox mobile base isn't solid enough for the weight
of this saw. If you want a mobile base, don't get the Shop Fox.

But still, that leaves you with about $1200 or more for wood or more
tools.

I had been considering the Grizzly G1023SLW, now I see this G0691.
From what I see, the first one has a routing table built into the extension
table while the latter saw has a riving knife. What is it that I don't see?
Should I assume the G0691 is better because it's a newer model?
I have 220 service so that's not an issue. I'd sort of like the routing
table,
and a riving knife and a mobile base! Does another cabinet saw come
to mind meeting this criteria?

Don't know about the riving knife, but I know Jet has a cabinet
saw/table that fits their X-Acta lift. I don't see it as a big deal
to put one in any table though. I have the X-Acta lift and am
planning to put it in my Delta's table. Yes, I know it'll get in the
way but so does the router table.