I will be glueing and pinning my door frame sections
soon and I ordered 3" lost heads from screwfix.
Should I have bought ovals (brads) for hammering through the glued M &
T
joints?

Thanks.

Arthur , UK

On Jun 26, 8:26*am, Arthur 51 wrote:
I will be glueing and pinning my door frame sections
soon and I ordered 3" lost heads from screwfix.
Should I have bought ovals (brads) for hammering through the glued M &
T joints?

Why would you want to nail glued Mortice & Tenon joints????????

Luigi

"Luigi Zanasi" wrote in message
...
On Jun 26, 8:26 am, Arthur 51 wrote:
I will be glueing and pinning my door frame sections
soon and I ordered 3" lost heads from screwfix.
Should I have bought ovals (brads) for hammering through the glued M &
T joints?

Why would you want to nail glued Mortice & Tenon joints????????

Luigi


Just taking a belt and braces approach.


It will also help to tighten the tenon into the mortice a little.

Arthur

Arthur 51 wrote:
"Luigi Zanasi" wrote in message
...
On Jun 26, 8:26 am, Arthur 51 wrote:
I will be glueing and pinning my door frame sections
soon and I ordered 3" lost heads from screwfix.
Should I have bought ovals (brads) for hammering through the glued M &
T joints?

Why would you want to nail glued Mortice & Tenon joints????????

Luigi


Just taking a belt and braces approach.


It will also help to tighten the tenon into the mortice a little.

Arthur

Traditional "pinning" of a mortise and tenon joint would indeed "tighten
the tenon into the mortise", but it's a bit late to do that in the
traditional manner.

You're just adding mechanical fasteners to a joint that, if executed
properly, normally does not need mechanical assistance for strength ...
but don't let that stop you if you feel it necessary. You do see this
quite a bit on outdoor furniture made overseas, but in that case the
joints need all the help they can get due to sloppy work and inaccurate
factory method engineering.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

"Arthur 51" wrote in message
...
I will be glueing and pinning my door frame sections
soon and I ordered 3" lost heads from screwfix.
Should I have bought ovals (brads) for hammering through the glued M &
T
joints?



I don't understand. Are you nailing into the end grain of the tenon instead
of a wedge? You can't be nailing through the mortice and the tenon with a 3"
nail, or is that a typo? Anyway if it is indoor work then glueing should be
enough. Outdoor work subject to a lot of movement and stresses from the
changing seasons might be helped by nails, but that isn't what you asked.
Ovals or lost-heads? Either really, drill first if there is a danger of
splitting.

Tim w

"Tim W" wrote in message
om...

"Arthur 51" wrote in message
...
I will be glueing and pinning my door frame sections
soon and I ordered 3" lost heads from screwfix.
Should I have bought ovals (brads) for hammering through the glued M &
T
joints?



I don't understand. Are you nailing into the end grain of the tenon
instead of a wedge? You can't be nailing through the mortice and the tenon
with a 3" nail, or is that a typo? Anyway if it is indoor work then
glueing should be enough. Outdoor work subject to a lot of movement and
stresses from the changing seasons might be helped by nails, but that
isn't what you asked. Ovals or lost-heads? Either really, drill first if
there is a danger of splitting.

Tim w

I will be nailing through the long side of the mortise at about 45 degrees.
These are big tenons about 22mm thick by 70mm wide (sapele)

T
---------------------\----------------------------------------------------
\
------\----------------------------
| \
|
| \
|
----------\------------------------
\
-------------------------------------------------------------------------


The door frame is an external one and will be exposed to the weather.
I am gluing with a PU glue.

Thanks.

Arthur

On Fri, 26 Jun 2009 08:26:27 -0700 (PDT), Arthur 51
wrote:

I will be glueing and pinning my door frame sections
soon and I ordered 3" lost heads from screwfix.
Should I have bought ovals (brads) for hammering through the glued M &
T
joints?

Thanks.

Arthur , UK


A pin through a M&T joint might weaken it. A well-fitted M&T joint is
about as strong as it gets.

On Jun 26, 6:53*pm, "Arthur 51" wrote:
"Tim W" wrote in message

"Arthur 51" wrote in message

I will be glueing and pinning my door frame sections
soon and I ordered 3" lost heads from screwfix.
Should I have bought ovals (brads) for hammering through the glued M &
T joints?

I don't understand. Are you nailing into the end grain of the tenon
instead of a wedge? You can't be nailing through the mortice and the tenon
with a 3" nail, or is that a typo? Anyway if it is indoor work then
glueing should be enough. Outdoor work subject to a lot of movement and
stresses from the changing seasons might be helped by nails, but that
isn't what you asked. Ovals or lost-heads? Either really, drill first if
there is a danger of splitting.

Tim w

I will be nailing through the long side of the mortise at about 45 degrees.
These are big tenons about 22mm thick by 70mm wide (sapele)

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * *T
---------------------\----------------------------------------------------
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *\
* * * * * * * * * * * * * ------\----------------------------
* * * * * * * * * * * * * | * * * * *\
|
* * * * * * * * * * * * * | * * * * * *\
|
* * * * * * * * * * * * * ----------\------------------------
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *\
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

The door frame is an external one and will be exposed to the weather.
I am gluing with a PU glue.

Thanks.

Arthur

I thought you were trolling. I wouldn't use screws at all. I'd use
brass or stainless pins set flush with both surfaces. 3/16" or 1/4"
pins would work.

R

On Jun 26, 1:46*pm, "Arthur 51" wrote:
"Luigi Zanasi" wrote in message


Why would you want to nail glued Mortice & Tenon joints????????

It will also help to tighten the tenon into the mortice a little.

The use of a hammer on an assembled joint is more likely
to disturb it than to enhance the fit. There IS a 'nail'
approach that is sometimes used, but it's a wooden
nail, and is used with bored holes that are slightly
misaligned. The wood nail (a tapered non-dowel, with edges
that will bite the wood) is driven in, and forcibly pulls the tenon
deeper into the mortise. It's a kind of internal clamp.

This nailed mortise is used in heavy timber joinery
There, glue is not useful, either because the gaps are
too large or because heavy timbers are often assembled
green and aren't glue-compatible.

If you have real clamps, and time to let the glue set, and
modern glues, the nail is just ... silly.

On Fri, 26 Jun 2009 23:53:52 +0100, "Arthur 51"
wrote:


The door frame is an external one and will be exposed to the weather.
I am gluing with a PU glue.

Sounds to me like it would be worth considering drawboring and forget
the glue.

Tom Veatch
Wichita, KS
USA

On Jun 26, 11:26*am, Arthur 51 wrote:
I will be glueing and pinning my door frame sections
soon and I ordered 3" lost heads from screwfix.
Should I have bought ovals (brads) for hammering through the glued M &
T
joints?

Thanks.

Arthur , UK

Split the pins from some nice hardwood scrap, much
classier than steel nails. Typically, you'd use pins
(drawpins) to tighten the M&T, not reinforce it.