Person: jim walker
Business: J. Best Co. Lmt
Amesh Shipping

Sends e-mail wanting to purchase merchandise - in my case it was an
unspecified number of tilt-top shop carts (see at link in sig) - with
payment by credit card with shipment to Sweden.

I responded to the initial query with the suggestion that he could have
the carts produced in Sweden for less than the cost of shipping from my
location - and offered to provide contact info for a Swedish shop that I
knew would do a first class job for a reasonable price.

The response was strange enough that I did web searches on both the
person and the business patting self on back.

What I found was that both names have been used to order merchandise
with MasterCard payment, and a requirement was made to use "Amesh
Shipping". Amesh then required an (up front) shipping payment.

The MasterCard payment used a stolen/bogus card number and the
transaction would be reversed (removing the deposited funds from the
merchant account), and there would be no means of recovering the payment
(typically $2000-3000) made to Amesh Shipping.

I went to my server log to look at hits to the web page where the carts
are shown (they aren't offered for sale) and /think/ I know where the
scammer is viewing the page from. FYI, here's the best I could find:

Suspected Location: Accra, Ghana
Suspected Server ref: adsl25164.4u.com.gh

I haven't ever mentioned these carts to anyone except here on the wreck,
so it seems appropriate to post a warning here (just in case).

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/Projects/PanelCart/

"Morris Dovey" wrote in message
...

Person: jim walker
Business: J. Best Co. Lmt
Amesh Shipping

Sends e-mail wanting to purchase merchandise - in my case it was an
unspecified number of tilt-top shop carts (see at link in sig) - with
payment by credit card with shipment to Sweden.

I responded to the initial query with the suggestion that he could have
the carts produced in Sweden for less than the cost of shipping from my
location - and offered to provide contact info for a Swedish shop that I
knew would do a first class job for a reasonable price.

The response was strange enough that I did web searches on both the person
and the business patting self on back.

What I found was that both names have been used to order merchandise with
MasterCard payment, and a requirement was made to use "Amesh Shipping".
Amesh then required an (up front) shipping payment.

The MasterCard payment used a stolen/bogus card number and the transaction
would be reversed (removing the deposited funds from the merchant
account), and there would be no means of recovering the payment (typically
$2000-3000) made to Amesh Shipping.

I went to my server log to look at hits to the web page where the carts
are shown (they aren't offered for sale) and /think/ I know where the
scammer is viewing the page from. FYI, here's the best I could find:

Suspected Location: Accra, Ghana
Suspected Server ref: adsl25164.4u.com.gh

I haven't ever mentioned these carts to anyone except here on the wreck,
so it seems appropriate to post a warning here (just in case).

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/Projects/PanelCart/

They aren't the only ones trying this trick. I got an order for 100 games
to be shipped to England. Same basic story, only this was a broker in New
York City that was handling the deal. I googled the address and called it
only to find that they had never heard of the person. It always pays to do
a basic background check on any order that is the least bit unusual. They
wanted me to ship by their shipper and when I informed them that I could
ship for less then 1/4 their cost they agreed to the lower shipping cost but
wanted 2 high end laptops included in the shipment, a sure redflag of a
scam.

sweet sawdust wrote:
"Morris Dovey" wrote in message
...

Person: jim walker
Business: J. Best Co. Lmt
Amesh Shipping

Sends e-mail wanting to purchase merchandise - in my case it was an
unspecified number of tilt-top shop carts (see at link in sig) -
with payment by credit card with shipment to Sweden.

I responded to the initial query with the suggestion that he could
have the carts produced in Sweden for less than the cost of
shipping from my location - and offered to provide contact info for
a Swedish shop that I knew would do a first class job for a
reasonable price. The response was strange enough that I did web
searches on both the
person and the business patting self on back.

What I found was that both names have been used to order
merchandise with MasterCard payment, and a requirement was made to
use "Amesh Shipping". Amesh then required an (up front) shipping
payment. The MasterCard payment used a stolen/bogus card number and the
transaction would be reversed (removing the deposited funds from
the merchant account), and there would be no means of recovering
the payment (typically $2000-3000) made to Amesh Shipping.

I went to my server log to look at hits to the web page where the
carts are shown (they aren't offered for sale) and /think/ I know
where the scammer is viewing the page from. FYI, here's the best I
could find: Suspected Location: Accra, Ghana
Suspected Server ref: adsl25164.4u.com.gh

I haven't ever mentioned these carts to anyone except here on the
wreck, so it seems appropriate to post a warning here (just in
case). --
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/Projects/PanelCart/

They aren't the only ones trying this trick. I got an order for 100
games to be shipped to England. Same basic story, only this was a
broker in New York City that was handling the deal. I googled the
address and called it only to find that they had never heard of the
person. It always pays to do a basic background check on any order
that is the least bit unusual. They wanted me to ship by their
shipper and when I informed them that I could ship for less then 1/4
their cost they agreed to the lower shipping cost but wanted 2 high
end laptops included in the shipment, a sure redflag of a scam.

Our local papers have been reporting similar scams being used on local
florists, where they are looking for very large orders of flowers to be
shipped by their shipping company. One florist had a large credit card
payment charged back to him even though the credit card company had
authorized the charge.

We require payment by bank transfer for any international sales... But I
suppose that wouldn't stop someone from doing the same to a USA address.

Regards,
Joe Agro, Jr.
(800) 871-5022
01.908.542.0244
Automatic / Pneumatic Drills: http://www.AutoDrill.com
Multiple Spindle Drills: http://www.Multi-Drill.com
Flagship Site: http://www.Drill-N-Tap.com

V8013-R

"Joe AutoDrill" wrote in message
...
We require payment by bank transfer for any international sales... But I
suppose that wouldn't stop someone from doing the same to a USA address.

Regards,
Joe Agro, Jr.
(800) 871-5022
01.908.542.0244
Automatic / Pneumatic Drills: http://www.AutoDrill.com
Multiple Spindle Drills: http://www.Multi-Drill.com
Flagship Site: http://www.Drill-N-Tap.com

V8013-R

I think that is part of the problem,
One, the orders are small, in my case under $2,000, before shipping.
Two, the billing address is in the US but the shipping address is
overseas.
Two small for a bank transfer to be common since it is with small
businesses, who are unfamiliar with the bank transfer procedure. The
perpetrators are out of country and law enforcement doesn't want to get
involved. The small business thinks it is dealing with someone in country so
they are safe. Most of the small crafters are poor businessmen, since their
interest is in the craft not in the business side of the operation. This
makes them very easy to scam, A wire transfer or a little background check
is the way it should be done, but most crafters are too trusting to bother
with that or learn about it. In the group of crafters I hang out with we
have quite a collection of bogus certified checks, overseas orders paid for
with bad credit cards and the like. Nobody has been burned yet but is has
been close a couple of times and a lot of time has been spent on bogus
orders until they are found to be scams. Unlike companies that sell to
companies most crafters sell to individuals who may or maynot have a
verifiable business location, this makes it harder to check up on. If they
are in country it is not so bad as you recieve some protection from various
laws, and can check with local people in the buyers area to confirm that
they are legit but out of country buyers are a real pain in the neck to
check at times. Enough rambeling for now.

sweet sawdust wrote:

I think that is part of the problem,
One, the orders are small, in my case under $2,000, before shipping.
Two, the billing address is in the US but the shipping address is
overseas.
Two small for a bank transfer to be common since it is with small
businesses, who are unfamiliar with the bank transfer procedure.

My learning experience was in the other direction, but it covers the
bases reasonably well...

I needed to order materials from a Japanese company and their sales guy
told me I needed to do a bank transfer before they'd ship. I hustled to
my bank (didn't even turn the computer off) and told 'em I needed to do
a transfer of $xxxx to a company in Tokyo and filled out a short form
(no more complicated than writing a check). The bank clerk wished me a
good day and I drove straight home (10-minute trip).

When I got home there was an e-mail in my in box thanking me for my
payment and assuring me that my stuff would ship out of Taipei (where
the factory was) that afternoon.

There really isn't much to it.

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/

I think that is part of the problem,
One, the orders are small, in my case under $2,000, before shipping.
Two, the billing address is in the US but the shipping address is
overseas.
Two small for a bank transfer to be common since it is with small
businesses, who are unfamiliar with the bank transfer procedure.

My learning experience was in the other direction, but it covers the bases
reasonably well...

I needed to order materials from a Japanese company and their sales guy
told me I needed to do a bank transfer before they'd ship. I hustled to my
bank (didn't even turn the computer off) and told 'em I needed to do a
transfer of $xxxx to a company in Tokyo and filled out a short form (no
more complicated than writing a check). The bank clerk wished me a good
day and I drove straight home (10-minute trip).

When I got home there was an e-mail in my in box thanking me for my
payment and assuring me that my stuff would ship out of Taipei (where the
factory was) that afternoon.

There really isn't much to it.

Agreed. When I receive an order from overseas, I require the bank tranfer
and send out very clear, step by step instructions. If the other end simplt
prints the instructions and brings them to the bank (and the bankers read
English), then the instructions cover all the bases and then some...

The only difficulty I have is getting them to cover the wire transfer fees
that I make *them* pay. About 60% of the time, my payment comes in anywhere
from $10 to $40 short... But on a $xxxx order, that's acceptable to me
since I'd pay the same thing in credit card fees here in the US if someone
paid with V/MC, etc.

Regards,
Joe Agro, Jr.
(800) 871-5022
01.908.542.0244
Automatic / Pneumatic Drills: http://www.AutoDrill.com
Multiple Spindle Drills: http://www.Multi-Drill.com
Flagship Site: http://www.Drill-N-Tap.com

V8013-R

Joe AutoDrill wrote:

The only difficulty I have is getting them to cover the wire transfer fees
that I make *them* pay. About 60% of the time, my payment comes in anywhere
from $10 to $40 short... But on a $xxxx order, that's acceptable to me
since I'd pay the same thing in credit card fees here in the US if someone
paid with V/MC, etc.

Y'know, I've been sitting here experiencing serious deja vu. I spent
more than two months trying to buy those materials from a US supplier
(none of whom would reply to voice or e-mails) before I widened my
search beyond our borders. I can't begin to describe how frustrating
that was. Three e-mail exchanges with a gentleman in Tokyo, and a ten
minute trip to the bank brought my materials to central Iowa in just
three days.

For a week now now I've been trying to get my hands on a ball valve with
metal seats for a high-temperature solar engine, and I haven't been able
to get a human to talk to me. The current frustrator is an outfit up in
Milford, Michigan (Yes I do understand that the folks in Michigan are so
up to their eyeballs in work that it's probably not worth their time to
respond to /new/ customers - not).

Methinks it's time to stop screwing around and go global - again.

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/

"Morris Dovey" wrote

For a week now now I've been trying to get my hands on a ball valve with
metal seats for a high-temperature solar engine, and I haven't been able
to get a human to talk to me. The current frustrator is an outfit up in
Milford, Michigan (Yes I do understand that the folks in Michigan are so
up to their eyeballs in work that it's probably not worth their time to
respond to /new/ customers - not).

Methinks it's time to stop screwing around and go global - again.

I know the feeling. I have ordered items from New Zealand and China because
I could not get them in the US. Shipping was high, but they had items in
stock and would talk to me.

Maybe Obama should put in his economic "stimulus" bill something about US
companies actually answering their phone/e-mail.

Morris Dovey wrote:
Joe AutoDrill wrote:

The only difficulty I have is getting them to cover the wire
transfer fees that I make *them* pay. About 60% of the time, my
payment comes in anywhere from $10 to $40 short... But on a $xxxx
order, that's acceptable to me since I'd pay the same thing in
credit card fees here in the US if someone paid with V/MC, etc.

Y'know, I've been sitting here experiencing serious deja vu. I spent
more than two months trying to buy those materials from a US supplier
(none of whom would reply to voice or e-mails) before I widened my
search beyond our borders. I can't begin to describe how frustrating
that was. Three e-mail exchanges with a gentleman in Tokyo, and a ten
minute trip to the bank brought my materials to central Iowa in just
three days.

For a week now now I've been trying to get my hands on a ball valve
with metal seats for a high-temperature solar engine, and I haven't
been able to get a human to talk to me. The current frustrator is an
outfit up in Milford, Michigan (Yes I do understand that the folks in
Michigan are so up to their eyeballs in work that it's probably not
worth their time to respond to /new/ customers - not).

Methinks it's time to stop screwing around and go global - again.

American business is often its own worst enemy.

On Mar 13, 12:36*pm, "Lee Michaels"
wrote:
"Morris Dovey" wrote

For a week now now I've been trying to get my hands on a ball valve with
metal seats for a high-temperature solar engine, and I haven't been able
to get a human to talk to me. The current frustrator is an outfit up in
Milford, Michigan (Yes I do understand that the folks in Michigan are so
up to their eyeballs in work that it's probably not worth their time to
respond to /new/ customers - not).

Methinks it's time to stop screwing around and go global - again.

I know the feeling. *I have ordered items from New Zealand and China because
I could not get them in the US. *Shipping was high, but they had items in
stock and would talk to me.

Maybe Obama should put in his economic "stimulus" bill something about US
companies actually answering their phone/e-mail.

Our little Snowflake, (15) wanted some UG winter boots. So Angela
looked around for her and all the UG's were made in China and stupid
money. On-line, we found the original UG's, in Australia, for less
money, shipping included and had them in three days. THREE days from
Oz.
I can buy electronic parts in Denmark and have them over-night if I
want to pay extra, three days if I don't.
Lee Valley 'gets it'.

What I would like to see, if I place an order, and they take one of
the major credit cards, that they'd give me a 3.5% discount if I send
them a cheque ahead of their shipping the goods.
Same with a LOC, give me a discount.

Robatoy wrote:

Lee Valley 'gets it'.

Yuppers (We've noticed)

What I would like to see, if I place an order, and they take one of
the major credit cards, that they'd give me a 3.5% discount if I send
them a cheque ahead of their shipping the goods.

I'm willing to do that - order from me! :-)

Something you might find interesting is that in six years of business,
I've /never/ had a customer check bounce. That's had me scratching my
head a bit...

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/

J. Clarke wrote:

American business is often its own worst enemy.

And yet, I have good memories of Philly and northern NJ when no matter
what I needed, someone had an uncle who could not only supply it, but
supply it (or make it) for less than I'd likely find it anywhere else.

I'll admit that I did turn down an offer to supply me with a (new) 1403
for only $2500 - with considerable regret on my part.

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/

Morris Dovey wrote:
And yet, I have good memories of Philly and northern NJ when no matter
what I needed, someone had an uncle who could not only supply it, but
supply it (or make it) for less than I'd likely find it anywhere else.


Yes, but it also came with the stipulation that,
"Someday, and that day may never come, I'll call upon you to do a
service for me."


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

-MIKE- wrote:
Morris Dovey wrote:
And yet, I have good memories of Philly and northern NJ when no matter
what I needed, someone had an uncle who could not only supply it, but
supply it (or make it) for less than I'd likely find it anywhere else.

Yes, but it also came with the stipulation that,
"Someday, and that day may never come, I'll call upon you to do a
service for me."

I hear you - and fortunately the good deals I got came from people for
whom I'd either already done a (legitimate) software-related favor or
were fellow hams "getting even" for help I'd given freely.

The questionable offers tended to scare the hell out of me...
....although I admit to being tempted at one point during my divorce.

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/

Morris Dovey wrote:

Person: jim walker
Business: J. Best Co. Lmt
Amesh Shipping

Suspected Location: Accra, Ghana
Suspected Server ref: adsl25164.4u.com.gh

He's baaack!

In this morning's mail:

" My name is James and i am a self own business
person,I contact to make a order of Solar Panel and many more ,So i
will like to know if you do sale Solar Panel ?If yes then get back to me
with your models and price list so that i can make my selection and get
back to you with the quantity that i may need including your major
credit card that you accept ,name and contact number.Try as much as you
can to get back to me asap .Thank You and i will be looking forward to
your urgent respond.

James Story"

Headers indicate a server in North Accra, Ghana.

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/

On Sun, 29 Mar 2009 09:38:55 -0500, Morris Dovey wrote:

Business: J. Best Co. Lmt
Amesh Shipping

Suspected Location: Accra, Ghana
Suspected Server ref: adsl25164.4u.com.gh

He's baaack!

Ya'know, if you had the time and energy to waste you could keep this guy
dangling for quite some time. I've seen it done for the Nigerian
prisoner scam and it was hilarious.



--
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw

"Morris Dovey" wrote in message
...
Morris Dovey wrote:

Person: jim walker
Business: J. Best Co. Lmt
Amesh Shipping

Suspected Location: Accra, Ghana
Suspected Server ref: adsl25164.4u.com.gh

He's baaack!

In this morning's mail:

" My name is James and i am a self own business
person,I contact to make a order of Solar Panel and many more ,So i will
like to know if you do sale Solar Panel ?If yes then get back to me with
your models and price list so that i can make my selection and get back to
you with the quantity that i may need including your major credit card
that you accept ,name and contact number.Try as much as you can to get
back to me asap .Thank You and i will be looking forward to your urgent
respond.

James Story"

Headers indicate a server in North Accra, Ghana.

Reminds me of all that overseas pharmacy scams. Would you really want to
trust your health to somebody who can't spell?

Larry Blanchard wrote:
On Sun, 29 Mar 2009 09:38:55 -0500, Morris Dovey wrote:

Business: J. Best Co. Lmt
Amesh Shipping
Suspected Location: Accra, Ghana
Suspected Server ref: adsl25164.4u.com.gh
He's baaack!

Ya'know, if you had the time and energy to waste you could keep this guy
dangling for quite some time. I've seen it done for the Nigerian
prisoner scam and it was hilarious.

I learned very early in life that playing with turds makes your hands
smell bad.

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/

On Mar 29, 1:11*pm, Morris Dovey wrote:
Larry Blanchard wrote:
On Sun, 29 Mar 2009 09:38:55 -0500, Morris Dovey wrote:

Business: J. Best Co. Lmt
* * * * * Amesh Shipping
* Suspected Location: Accra, Ghana
Suspected Server ref: adsl25164.4u.com.gh
He's baaack!

Ya'know, if you had the time and energy to waste you could keep this guy
dangling for quite some time. *I've seen it done for the Nigerian
prisoner scam and it was hilarious.

I learned very early in life that playing with turds makes your hands
smell bad.

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USAhttp://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/

There is no end of scams and you don't have to go to Ghana to find
one. We've been getting vehicle warranty phone calls at a fantastic
rate, sometimes three or more a day. I finally punched "1" a couple of
days ago. Some idiot comes on with "Warranty Sales Department, how can
I help you." A native English speaker, at that! Not Limey, or Aussie
or SingSong. So I said, "Sure. Explain to me why you clowns keep
calling us when we're on the 'do not call" list." He hung up
immediately. I should have strung him out a bit. Hell, I've got a '98
Chev S10 pick-up and an '00 Dodge Stratus that could USE some warranty
work.

We got a check for $3,850 the other day, with a request that we
deposit it, send $1,350 as a payment, so we could claim our xxx bucks
winning prize. I've got that here to go to the post office when I get
time. It's from a Canadian address.

I always wonder about those penis lengtheners in spam, too. Do they
send a brick and a piece of string when you pay? Or nothing?

"Charlie Self" wrote in message
...
On Mar 29, 1:11 pm, Morris Dovey wrote:
Larry Blanchard wrote:
On Sun, 29 Mar 2009 09:38:55 -0500, Morris Dovey wrote:

Business: J. Best Co. Lmt
Amesh Shipping
Suspected Location: Accra, Ghana
Suspected Server ref: adsl25164.4u.com.gh
He's baaack!

Ya'know, if you had the time and energy to waste you could keep this guy
dangling for quite some time. I've seen it done for the Nigerian
prisoner scam and it was hilarious.

I learned very early in life that playing with turds makes your hands
smell bad.

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USAhttp://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/

There is no end of scams and you don't have to go to Ghana to find
one. We've been getting vehicle warranty phone calls at a fantastic
rate, sometimes three or more a day. I finally punched "1" a couple of
days ago. Some idiot comes on with "Warranty Sales Department, how can
I help you." A native English speaker, at that! Not Limey, or Aussie
or SingSong. So I said, "Sure. Explain to me why you clowns keep
calling us when we're on the 'do not call" list." He hung up
immediately. I should have strung him out a bit. Hell, I've got a '98
Chev S10 pick-up and an '00 Dodge Stratus that could USE some warranty
work.

We got a check for $3,850 the other day, with a request that we
deposit it, send $1,350 as a payment, so we could claim our xxx bucks
winning prize. I've got that here to go to the post office when I get
time. It's from a Canadian address.

I always wonder about those penis lengtheners in spam, too. Do they
send a brick and a piece of string when you pay? Or nothing?


end of original message
Charlie,
Probably from Warranty Division of Atlanta; www.warrantyactivations.com.
They've called me a few times, but I've only *57'd them twice. After the
third time, my phone company says that I can lodge a complaint against 'em.
Kerry

This guy just can't quit. This morning's e-mail from the same server in
Accra (Ghana):

=====
Hi,
I am Mr. Joseph Brown.
I will like to order 2 of the 180 Watt Lake Lite Solar Panels from your
store.
I will arrange for my own Shipping which will ship my units to Australia.
I will like you to email me asap with the total cost of the units
including taxes.
I will also like to know the for of payment you accept
Waiting

Mr. Joseph Brown.
=====

(I don't sell PV panels)

Future posts will be tagged "OT - Humor"

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/

-MIKE- wrote:
Morris Dovey wrote:
This guy just can't quit. This morning's e-mail from the same server
in Accra (Ghana):

=====
Hi,
I am Mr. Joseph Brown.
I will like to order 2 of the 180 Watt Lake Lite Solar Panels from
your store.
I will arrange for my own Shipping which will ship my units to Australia.
I will like you to email me asap with the total cost of the units
including taxes.
I will also like to know the for of payment you accept
Waiting

Mr. Joseph Brown.
=====


I am think they speaking English in Australia. :-)


Is that what you call it...

On Sun, 29 Mar 2009 20:22:32 +0100, Charlie Self wrote
(in article
):

I always wonder about those penis lengtheners in spam, too. Do they
send a brick and a piece of string when you pay? Or nothing?

They sent me a VERY long piece of string and a pair of water skis.....

On Thu, 2 Apr 2009 18:29:23 +0100, Morris Dovey wrote
(in article ):

This guy just can't quit. This morning's e-mail from the same server in
Accra (Ghana):

=====
Hi,
I am Mr. Joseph Brown.
I will like to order 2 of the 180 Watt Lake Lite Solar Panels from your
snip

The first give away is anyone announcing themselves as "Mr." It's just so..
foreign. I can tolerate the bad engrish but the nasty etiquette is simply
unforgivable.



Nayther Prince Albert nor ourself is amused by this unspeakable outrage.
Behaviour of this ilk will be the downfall of the Empire, one day.
V.R.

"Bored Borg" wrote in message

The first give away is anyone announcing themselves as "Mr." It's just
so..
foreign. I can tolerate the bad engrish but the nasty etiquette is simply
unforgivable.

You may find it hard to believe, but some people still use and prefer to use
the more formal "Mr.". There is nothing nasty about etiquette, only the
lack of it. That, sir, is unforgivable.

On Mon, 6 Apr 2009 04:57:20 +0100, Dave Balderstone wrote
(in article 050420092157207741%dave@N_O_T_T_H_I_Sbalderstone. ca):

In article , Ed Pawlowski
wrote:

"Bored Borg" wrote in message

The first give away is anyone announcing themselves as "Mr." It's just
so..
foreign. I can tolerate the bad engrish but the nasty etiquette is simply
unforgivable.

You may find it hard to believe, but some people still use and prefer to
use
the more formal "Mr.". There is nothing nasty about etiquette, only the
lack of it. That, sir, is unforgivable.

There is nothing wrong with addressing or introducing someone else as "Mr."
The bad form is in introducing ones self this way.
Perfectly correct would be
I am/my name is Smith.
" " John Smith
" " John.
Unforgivably gauche is
My name is Mr. John Smith.

My issue was one of propriety, not of formality.

Yes, but someone concerned with etiquette will not be sending
unsolicited email attempting to steal money from people.

That is nasty, and the use of the formal "Mr." is indeed a feature of
this type of scam.

You may find it hard to believe, but someone who follows etiquette can
still be a lying thief ******* who deserves to be tied to an anthill,
covered in honey and then executed after he passes out.

I trust that said person will remember to say "Please," while being tied to
the anthill and "Thank you." after the honey is applied.

Bored Borg wrote:
Unforgivably gauche is
My name is Mr. John Smith.


Try working in academia where everyone introduces themselves as "Dr."
this-n-that.



--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

In article , -MIKE- wrote:
Bored Borg wrote:
Unforgivably gauche is
My name is Mr. John Smith.


Try working in academia where everyone introduces themselves as "Dr."
this-n-that.

I bet they don't introduce themselves to other doctoral-degreed professors
that way, only to those with lesser academic qualifications -- which makes it
doubly gauche.

The couple across the street are a chemist and a college professor, both now
retired. I believe that, between the two of them, they have at least three
doctorate and three masters degrees. They introduce themselves simply as
"Gloria" and "Andrew".

Doug Miller wrote:
Try working in academia where everyone introduces themselves as "Dr."
this-n-that.

I bet they don't introduce themselves to other doctoral-degreed professors
that way, only to those with lesser academic qualifications -- which makes it
doubly gauche.


My policy was, you don't get called, "Doctor," unless you can save my
life. :-)



--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On Mon, 6 Apr 2009 19:14:25 +0100, Doug Miller wrote
(in article ):

The couple across the street are a chemist and a college professor, both now
retired. I believe that, between the two of them, they have at least three
doctorate and three masters degrees. They introduce themselves simply as
"Gloria" and "Andrew".

Now that is _class_





--The Reverend Doctor Bored Borg, spilling egg down his tie again.

In article , wrote:
On Mon, 6 Apr 2009 19:14:25 +0100, Doug Miller wrote
(in article ):

The couple across the street are a chemist and a college professor, both now
retired. I believe that, between the two of them, they have at least three
doctorate and three masters degrees. They introduce themselves simply as
"Gloria" and "Andrew".

Now that is _class_

Indeed.

I am proud to be able to count them among my friends.

In article 060420091900007193%dave@N_O_T_T_H_I_Sbalderstone. ca, Dave Balderstone wrote:
In article , Doug Miller
wrote:

In article ,
wrote:
On Mon, 6 Apr 2009 19:14:25 +0100, Doug Miller wrote
(in article ):

The couple across the street are a chemist and a college professor, both
now
retired. I believe that, between the two of them, they have at least three

doctorate and three masters degrees. They introduce themselves simply as
"Gloria" and "Andrew".

Now that is _class_

Indeed.

I am proud to be able to count them among my friends.

It's nice to hear about the size 12 souls in the size 6 egos for a
change, instead of always the other way 'round.

I'm sure I'd enjoy meeting your friends.

If you're ever passing through Indianapolis, let me know. I'll introduce you.

-MIKE- wrote:
Bored Borg wrote:
Unforgivably gauche is
My name is Mr. John Smith.


Try working in academia where everyone introduces themselves as "Dr."
this-n-that.

In Germany, it could well be Herr Doktor Doktor Doktor Schmidt.

What is REALLY silly is a lawyer's business card that reads

Helen Dorothy Smith, Esq.

In heraldry, "Esquire" is one rank above "Gentleman." I suppose the broads
think they're better than we plebians.

"HeyBub" wrote in message
...
-MIKE- wrote:
Bored Borg wrote:
Unforgivably gauche is
My name is Mr. John Smith.


Try working in academia where everyone introduces themselves as "Dr."
this-n-that.

In Germany, it could well be Herr Doktor Doktor Doktor Schmidt.

What is REALLY silly is a lawyer's business card that reads

Helen Dorothy Smith, Esq.

In heraldry, "Esquire" is one rank above "Gentleman." I suppose the broads
think they're better than we plebians.


From Wickipedia
Esquire (abbreviated Esq.) is a term of British origin, originally used to
denote social status. Ultimately deriving from the medieval squires who
assisted knights, the term came to be used automatically by men of gentle
birth. The social rank of Esquire is that above gentleman. More
specifically, though, a distinction was made between men of the upper and
lower gentry, who were "esquires" and "gentlemen" respectively (between, for
example, "Thomas Smith, Esq." and "William Jones, Gent.").
Today, however, the term may be appended to the name of any man not
possessing a higher title (such as that of knighthood or peerage) or a
clerical one. In the United States, however, "esquire" is most commonly
assumed by lawyers in a professional capacity and has come to be associated
by many Americans solely with the legal profession.

"Ed Pawlowski" wrote

From Wickipedia
Esquire (abbreviated Esq.) is a term of British origin, originally used to
denote social status. Ultimately deriving from the medieval squires who
assisted knights, the term came to be used automatically by men of gentle
birth. The social rank of Esquire is that above gentleman. More
specifically, though, a distinction was made between men of the upper and
lower gentry, who were "esquires" and "gentlemen" respectively (between,
for example, "Thomas Smith, Esq." and "William Jones, Gent.").
Today, however, the term may be appended to the name of any man not
possessing a higher title (such as that of knighthood or peerage) or a
clerical one. In the United States, however, "esquire" is most commonly
assumed by lawyers in a professional capacity and has come to be
associated by many Americans solely with the legal profession.

=================

Interesting. I always thought the terms scumbag. bloodsucker, parasite and
shyster were associated with the legal profession.

Dave Balderstone wrote:

In article , Doug Miller
wrote:

In article ,
wrote:
On Mon, 6 Apr 2009 19:14:25 +0100, Doug Miller wrote
(in article ):

The couple across the street are a chemist and a college professor,
both now
retired. I believe that, between the two of them, they have at least
three doctorate and three masters degrees. They introduce themselves
simply as "Gloria" and "Andrew".

Now that is _class_

Indeed.

I am proud to be able to count them among my friends.

It's nice to hear about the size 12 souls in the size 6 egos for a
change, instead of always the other way 'round.


I've had the honor of working for/with some very brilliant minds in my
industry -- PhD's and those who have the innate knowledge that a PhD would
be a waste of their time. I've found that those who are really good are
the most humble and personable people to be around. They are good, it's
just a part of their being, they don't have to flaunt it. It's some of
those who have gotten those credentials and who aren't really that good at
what they do that are the most arrogant, irritating and difficult people to
work with. They aren't really that good, they kind of sense that and in
order to make up for that inadequacy, they tend to make up for lack of
ability with bluster and bullying. The first group is a joy to know and
work with, the latter, not so much. Sounds like your friends are members
of the first group.

There is a third group who are just plain people, regardless of their
talents who don't use their abilities as the focus of their being. They
are also good people with whom to be associated.

I'm sure I'd enjoy meeting your friends.

--
If you're going to be dumb, you better be tough

Lee Michaels wrote:


"Ed Pawlowski" wrote

From Wickipedia
Esquire (abbreviated Esq.) is a term of British origin, originally used
to denote social status. Ultimately deriving from the medieval squires
who assisted knights, the term came to be used automatically by men of
gentle birth. The social rank of Esquire is that above gentleman. More
specifically, though, a distinction was made between men of the upper and
lower gentry, who were "esquires" and "gentlemen" respectively (between,
for example, "Thomas Smith, Esq." and "William Jones, Gent.").
Today, however, the term may be appended to the name of any man not
possessing a higher title (such as that of knighthood or peerage) or a
clerical one. In the United States, however, "esquire" is most commonly
assumed by lawyers in a professional capacity and has come to be
associated by many Americans solely with the legal profession.

=================

Interesting. I always thought the terms scumbag. bloodsucker, parasite and
shyster were associated with the legal profession.

Yabbut that doesn't fit on a business card very well.


--
If you're going to be dumb, you better be tough

Lee Michaels wrote:


"Ed Pawlowski" wrote

From Wickipedia
Esquire (abbreviated Esq.) is a term of British origin, originally used
to denote social status. Ultimately deriving from the medieval squires
who assisted knights, the term came to be used automatically by men of
gentle birth. The social rank of Esquire is that above gentleman. More
specifically, though, a distinction was made between men of the upper and
lower gentry, who were "esquires" and "gentlemen" respectively (between,
for example, "Thomas Smith, Esq." and "William Jones, Gent.").
Today, however, the term may be appended to the name of any man not
possessing a higher title (such as that of knighthood or peerage) or a
clerical one. In the United States, however, "esquire" is most commonly
assumed by lawyers in a professional capacity and has come to be
associated by many Americans solely with the legal profession.

=================

Interesting. I always thought the terms scumbag. bloodsucker, parasite and
shyster were associated with the legal profession.

Yabbut that doesn't fit on a business card very well.


--
If you're going to be dumb, you better be tough