Didn't anybody learn anything in the 1930's? Protectionism is a bad
idea. For anybody.

Robatoy wrote:
Didn't anybody learn anything in the 1930's? Protectionism is a bad
idea. For anybody.

The new pres has already said he doesn't like NAFTA. Maybe this is the
first step in shutting it down?

On the other hand, as we've seen before the USA only abides by NAFTA
rulings when they're in their favour.

Chris

On Fri, 30 Jan 2009 15:02:21 -0600, Chris Friesen
wrote:

Robatoy wrote:
Didn't anybody learn anything in the 1930's? Protectionism is a bad
idea. For anybody.

The new pres has already said he doesn't like NAFTA. Maybe this is the
first step in shutting it down?

On the other hand, as we've seen before the USA only abides by NAFTA
rulings when they're in their favour.

Chris
When they THINK it's in their favour

I am dumbfounded over this. How is this supposed to repair the
international image of the US that Obama is so desperately trying to
improve?

He wants to be the global Oprah/Phil Donahue/Wayne Dyer, yet he wants
to shut out our trading partners. That should build PLENTY of good
will with the global community.

The possibility of America standing on its own two legs is long, long
passed. Without our trading partners we are screwed. We are
incapable of turning this economy around without the help of others.

With so many of our resources, and so much of our manufacturing and
construction held in the hands of just a few here in the US, I shudder
to think what the costs will be with little or no competition. I
can't stand to think of the construction giants (which themselves are
global monsters - not hometown boys) getting even fatter building
municipal buildings and highways.

Since Hosana wants to start these projects right away, no doubt using
the same financial team that has overseen the first bailout dough go
away (you know, 18 billion in bonuses, 2 million dollar office
remodels, etc.) imagine what will happen when we plunge willy-nilly
into selecting the biggest contractors to get going immediately.

Budgets? Naw.... don't need 'em. We go no competition.

Material pricing? Don't worry! Where are they gonna go? It has to
stay between us!

One of the finer points of the bill I saw in a news article said that
they are even going to ask that ALL tools be made in the USA. I
worked on a union job as an observer for the owners of a large
building at one time. They union requireed that they had ALL USA made
tools. No Makita, Hitachi, DeWalt, or PC. The only used a special
line by B&D, anything Milwaukee, and a couple of others. One day,
both circular saws that two pairs of carpenters were using. Since
their reserve saw was in use by another pair, they had none of their
own. The certified USA saw from an approved vendor was somewhere en
route from waayyy up north. So those four knotheads sat on their
hands after halfhearted looking for work for 1/2 day the first day,
all day the next, and a couple of hours on the third. Finally, two
saws came, and four men went back to work.

Now imagine that being done with your own hard earned dollars. Not to
mention that the tools cost double the amount of their international
competitors. Think what that will do.

Imagine all the tools on a job; drills, saws, sledge hammers, skid
steer loaders, back hoes, material dollies, you name it. Some of that
stuff hasn't been made here for years. I don't know that we have the
technology to build many of these machines anymore. Where does that
leave us? Rather than to get going on the projects, will there be
even more bail out money thrown out the window to start new factories
so the industry cronies can finish screwing the last nickels out of
us?

Do you think Obama will give up his Blackberry or cell phone to keep
the "buy America" campaign going his way? After all, I am sure that
he only uses American made electronics, right?

This is just starting to get worse by the day. The arrogance and
stupidity of this whole bailout situation is getting ridiculous.

Robert

On Jan 31, 1:53*am, "
wrote:
I am dumbfounded over this. *How is this supposed to repair the
international image of the US that Obama is so desperately trying to
improve?

He wants to be the global Oprah/Phil Donahue/Wayne Dyer, yet he wants
to shut out our trading partners. *That should build PLENTY of good
will with the global community.

The possibility of America standing on its own two legs is long, long
passed. *Without our trading partners we are screwed. *We are
incapable of turning this economy around without the help of others.

With so many of our resources, and so much of our manufacturing and
construction held in the hands of just a few here in the US, I shudder
to think what the costs will be with little or no competition. *I
can't stand to think of the construction giants (which themselves are
global monsters - not hometown boys) getting even fatter building
municipal buildings and highways.

Since Hosana wants to start these projects right away, no doubt using
the same financial team that has overseen the first bailout dough go
away (you know, 18 billion in bonuses, 2 million dollar office
remodels, etc.) imagine what will happen when we plunge willy-nilly
into selecting the biggest contractors to get going immediately.

Budgets? *Naw.... don't need 'em. *We go no competition.

Material pricing? *Don't worry! *Where are they gonna go? *It has to
stay between us!

One of the finer points of the bill I saw in a news article said that
they are even going to ask that ALL tools be made in the USA. *I
worked on a union job as an observer for the owners of a large
building at one time. *They union requireed that they had ALL USA made
tools. *No Makita, Hitachi, DeWalt, or PC. *The only used a special
line by B&D, anything Milwaukee, and a couple of others. *One day,
both circular saws that two pairs of carpenters were using. *Since
their reserve saw was in use by another pair, they had none of their
own. *The certified USA saw from an approved vendor was somewhere en
route from waayyy up north. *So those four knotheads sat on their
hands after halfhearted looking for work for 1/2 day the first day,
all day the next, and a couple of hours on the third. *Finally, two
saws came, and four men went back to work.

Now imagine that being done with your own hard earned dollars. Not to
mention that the tools cost double the amount of their international
competitors. *Think what that will do.

Imagine all the tools on a job; drills, saws, sledge hammers, skid
steer loaders, back hoes, material dollies, you name it. *Some of that
stuff hasn't been made here for years. *I don't know that we have the
technology to build many of these machines anymore. Where does that
leave us? *Rather than to get going on the projects, will there be
even more bail out money thrown out the window to start new factories
so the industry cronies can finish screwing the last nickels out of
us?

Do you think Obama will give up his Blackberry or cell phone to keep
the "buy America" campaign going his way? *After all, I am sure that
he only uses American made electronics, right?

This is just starting to get worse by the day. *The arrogance and
stupidity of this whole bailout situation is getting ridiculous.

Robert

You are Right on! I think it's the "F" in NAFTA, that this
administration objects to.
They can't control business in Canada or Mexico as easily as they can
in the US. And with this bunch, it's all about control. Hang on to
your hats. It's going to be a Helluva ride!

Gene

On Sat, 31 Jan 2009 06:57:12 -0800 (PST), dzin
wrote:

On Jan 31, 1:53*am, "
wrote:
I am dumbfounded over this. *How is this supposed to repair the
international image of the US that Obama is so desperately trying to
improve?

He wants to be the global Oprah/Phil Donahue/Wayne Dyer, yet he wants
to shut out our trading partners. *That should build PLENTY of good
will with the global community.

The possibility of America standing on its own two legs is long, long
passed. *Without our trading partners we are screwed. *We are
incapable of turning this economy around without the help of others.

With so many of our resources, and so much of our manufacturing and
construction held in the hands of just a few here in the US, I shudder
to think what the costs will be with little or no competition. *I
can't stand to think of the construction giants (which themselves are
global monsters - not hometown boys) getting even fatter building
municipal buildings and highways.

Since Hosana wants to start these projects right away, no doubt using
the same financial team that has overseen the first bailout dough go
away (you know, 18 billion in bonuses, 2 million dollar office
remodels, etc.) imagine what will happen when we plunge willy-nilly
into selecting the biggest contractors to get going immediately.

Budgets? *Naw.... don't need 'em. *We go no competition.

Material pricing? *Don't worry! *Where are they gonna go? *It has to
stay between us!

One of the finer points of the bill I saw in a news article said that
they are even going to ask that ALL tools be made in the USA. *I
worked on a union job as an observer for the owners of a large
building at one time. *They union requireed that they had ALL USA made
tools. *No Makita, Hitachi, DeWalt, or PC. *The only used a special
line by B&D, anything Milwaukee, and a couple of others. *One day,
both circular saws that two pairs of carpenters were using. *Since
their reserve saw was in use by another pair, they had none of their
own. *The certified USA saw from an approved vendor was somewhere en
route from waayyy up north. *So those four knotheads sat on their
hands after halfhearted looking for work for 1/2 day the first day,
all day the next, and a couple of hours on the third. *Finally, two
saws came, and four men went back to work.

Now imagine that being done with your own hard earned dollars. Not to
mention that the tools cost double the amount of their international
competitors. *Think what that will do.

Imagine all the tools on a job; drills, saws, sledge hammers, skid
steer loaders, back hoes, material dollies, you name it. *Some of that
stuff hasn't been made here for years. *I don't know that we have the
technology to build many of these machines anymore. Where does that
leave us? *Rather than to get going on the projects, will there be
even more bail out money thrown out the window to start new factories
so the industry cronies can finish screwing the last nickels out of
us?

Do you think Obama will give up his Blackberry or cell phone to keep
the "buy America" campaign going his way? *After all, I am sure that
he only uses American made electronics, right?

This is just starting to get worse by the day. *The arrogance and
stupidity of this whole bailout situation is getting ridiculous.

Robert

You are Right on! I think it's the "F" in NAFTA, that this
administration objects to.
They can't control business in Canada or Mexico as easily as they can
in the US. And with this bunch, it's all about control. Hang on to
your hats. It's going to be a Helluva ride!

Gene


The government is the cause of our recession, now they are trying to
be the solution. We need "No taxes for 6 months," then I might think
about shopping. Bush nor Obama shine with financial responsibility;
too bad for USA taxpayers. Sadly, the only thing I can do is boycott
products of those who were bailed out.

On Sat, 31 Jan 2009 00:53:57 -0800, wrote:

The possibility of America standing on its own two legs is long, long
passed. Without our trading partners we are screwed. We are incapable
of turning this economy around without the help of others.

Dare I point out that we were warned about exactly that possibility a
long time ago?

And then there was Perot's giant sucking sound.

--
It's turtles, all the way down

wrote:

.... snip
With so many of our resources, and so much of our manufacturing and
construction held in the hands of just a few here in the US, I shudder
to think what the costs will be with little or no competition. I
can't stand to think of the construction giants (which themselves are
global monsters - not hometown boys) getting even fatter building
municipal buildings and highways.

Keep in mind also Robert B. Reiche's testimony before congress in which he
said that he didn't want those infrastructure jobs going to "white male
construction workers" -- his exact words.


.... snip

This is just starting to get worse by the day. The arrogance and
stupidity of this whole bailout situation is getting ridiculous.

Robert

Elections have consequences. Nobody was willing to listen to concerns
during the election season. No intellectual curiosity was displayed by the
media on the candidate's past record, associations, or experience. They
were of course, sufficiently curious to air-drop hundreds of reporters into
Alaska to dig through dumpsters for dirt on the other party's VP pick.

What did people THINK was going to happen when they elected liberal
statists to office? That somehow they were going to get fiscal restraint
and fiscal responsibility?

--
If you're going to be dumb, you better be tough

On Jan 31, 2:57*pm, Mark & Juanita wrote:

* What did people THINK was going to happen when they elected liberal
statists to office? *That somehow they were going to get fiscal restraint
and fiscal responsibility?

I know, I know. But I am going with John Wayne on this one; "He
wasn't my candidate, but he is my President". I am trying to give the
guy a chance and be as positive as possible. I am sick of the
infighting between politicians and the public over partisanship
issues.

I WANT things to go well. I do not care who the president is...
neither side of the isle has been able to field anyone dynamic for
years, so we are left with whatever candidate wants to face the
storm. I am not partisan; both sides stink of the feces of "bought
and paid for" politics.

I want Obama to do well as our leader, because if he does, by default
it is possible we might as well.

I just didn't think things would go SO horribly wrong SO fast... less
than 14 days in... I didn't have a clue those guys were that arrogant
and downright stupid.

Robert

In article ,

Mark & Juanita wrote:

...snipped...
What did people THINK was going to happen when they elected liberal
statists to office? That somehow they were going to get fiscal restraint
and fiscal responsibility?



Well, if they based their decision on the budget performance of Republican
vs Democratic administrations over the last 30 years or so, yes.




--
Better to be stuck up in a tree than tied to one.

Larry Wasserman - Baltimore Maryland - lwasserm(a)sdf. lonestar.org

wrote in message
...
[... snipped "buy USA" for bailout ...]
This is just starting to get worse by the day. The arrogance and
stupidity of this whole bailout situation is getting ridiculous.

Your anger and ire are misplaced. We're in the situation we're in by
spending our money overseas. Our largess with our neighboring countries,
through NAFTA, brought only the beneficients' scorn and disdain, while we
suffered loss of jobs and loss of capital. Hell, even our marijuana comes
from Canada and Mexico. It's true; we can't compete with their smaller
economies on a level field.

As for the stimulus money, the simplest analogy is with pipes and plumbing.
In a closed system, the money makes several roundtrips through the economy
before petering out, multiplying its effectiveness each time through. The
money goes to workers in your community, where they spend it on goods, and
they in turn spend it on more goods. We pay taxes on the money. The money
comes back out to pay for more work and more product. There's a name for
this economic theory. Keynesian, I think, but I might as well try to do
integral calculus as remember the fine details.

So, what about the import tool restrictions? Why cut NAFTA partners out of
the pie? First, our dear neighbors don't pay taxes or tariffs in the US.
Money leaves, and doesn't return. The status quo is exactly why we have a
problem. So, what to do about the lack of domestic tools and suppliers? This
is secondary money, funding US industry, making more jobs, opening a market
for manufacturing. Manufacturing builds a long supply chain, opening more
domestic markets, developing still more jobs, and circulating the capital to
more corners of the economy. Or something like that.

On Jan 31, 8:15*pm, "MikeWhy" wrote:
wrote in message

...
[... snipped "buy USA" for bailout ...]

This is just starting to get worse by the day. *The arrogance and
stupidity of this whole bailout situation is getting ridiculous.

Your anger and ire are misplaced. We're in the situation we're in by
spending our money overseas. Our largess with our neighboring countries,
through NAFTA, brought only the beneficients' scorn and disdain, while we
suffered loss of jobs and loss of capital. Hell, even our marijuana comes
from Canada and Mexico. It's true; we can't compete with their smaller
economies on a level field.

As for the stimulus money, the simplest analogy is with pipes and plumbing.
In a closed system, the money makes several roundtrips through the economy
before petering out, multiplying its effectiveness each time through. The
money goes to workers in your community, where they spend it on goods, and
they in turn spend it on more goods. We pay taxes on the money. The money
comes back out to pay for more work and more product. There's a name for
this economic theory. Keynesian, I think, but I might as well try to do
integral calculus as remember the fine details.


How does that deal with manufacturers of products for foreign markets?
Not everything the US makes is for domestic consumption. You have to
keep selling cluster bombs to other 'friendly' countries, you know.
Oh, and that money that is supposed to go around and around in a
closed loop system?
After the money-lenders and robber barons and tax people and utility
gougers skim off the bulk of it?
The money a working man spends to heat his home goes up the chimney,
so to speak, never to return as anything worthwhile.
How do you replenish it? Print some more?

Many economic models work well as long as you exclude the predators.

On Sat, 31 Jan 2009 19:15:48 -0600, "MikeWhy"
wrote:

wrote in message
...
[... snipped "buy USA" for bailout ...]
This is just starting to get worse by the day. The arrogance and
stupidity of this whole bailout situation is getting ridiculous.

Your anger and ire are misplaced. We're in the situation we're in by
spending our money overseas. Our largess with our neighboring countries,
through NAFTA, brought only the beneficients' scorn and disdain, while we
suffered loss of jobs and loss of capital. Hell, even our marijuana comes
from Canada and Mexico. It's true; we can't compete with their smaller
economies on a level field.

As for the stimulus money, the simplest analogy is with pipes and plumbing.
In a closed system, the money makes several roundtrips through the economy
before petering out, multiplying its effectiveness each time through. The
money goes to workers in your community, where they spend it on goods, and
they in turn spend it on more goods. We pay taxes on the money. The money
comes back out to pay for more work and more product. There's a name for
this economic theory. Keynesian, I think, but I might as well try to do
integral calculus as remember the fine details.

So, what about the import tool restrictions? Why cut NAFTA partners out of
the pie? First, our dear neighbors don't pay taxes or tariffs in the US.
Money leaves, and doesn't return.

Oh, it returns all right, when Canadians buy US goods and services.
Because we ARE a small economy we cannot afford to build EVERYTHING we
need. Particularly when your (protectionist) industries pull their
plants out of Canada . And they buy up our plants and then pull them
out so if we want, say, a medium duty truck we need to buy AMERICAN
International or Freightliner trucks because you have shut our plants
down. Our steel industry is almost 100% American owned now that
American Steel has bought out Stelco.

You get your money back from Canada. How'd you like if Canada decided
to say "you won't buy our steel, see how you do without our natural
gas too"?
We wouldn't be STUPID enough to do that (I dont think even Harper
would do that - Dion might have).

The status quo is exactly why we have a
problem. So, what to do about the lack of domestic tools and suppliers? This
is secondary money, funding US industry, making more jobs, opening a market
for manufacturing. Manufacturing builds a long supply chain, opening more
domestic markets, developing still more jobs, and circulating the capital to
more corners of the economy. Or something like that.

On Jan 31, 7:15*pm, "MikeWhy" wrote:

Your anger and ire are misplaced. We're in the situation we're in by
spending our money overseas. Our largess with our neighboring countries,
through NAFTA, brought only the beneficients' scorn and disdain, while we
suffered loss of jobs and loss of capital.

*** Major snippage ***

Manufacturing builds a long supply chain, opening more
domestic markets, developing still more jobs, and circulating the capital to
more corners of the economy. Or something like that.

Mike, I appreciate your thoughtful response. But to me it sounds like
a high school civics lesson given by an economics teacher. You
obviously have a much more idealistic belief in our system than I do.

To use your simple analogy, I think that money given by the government
to US companies will indeed flow through our plumbing system and into
the hands of the gutter rats.

You see everything working as it would in a textbook situation. Money
flowing from the top down, everyone receiving benefits. A great plan
if it would work.

But the USA isn't that way. Individuals now steal billions of dollars
at a time. Billions. American businesses are so cavalier in their
practices that they use "bailout money" slated to assist the public to
pay themselves bonuses for jobs poorly done. With no oversight, they
aren't even breaking a law, and they aren't asked to give the money
back. After losing a few billion themselves, their was one banker
that used 1.6 million just to remodel his office!

Out of the 50 billion dollars that are spent on the war each year, how
have you benefited? Do you have better trade infrastructure in your
community? Did General Dynamics open a plant in your community? Did
Haliburton spread their new found wealth anywhere that you know of?
Lockheed? Have any of these companies that continue to make billions
from tax payer money helped you by sourcing the to your state? There
are evidenced situations where American companies overcharged
(Haliburton) overcharged the government by millions and millions...
and nothing is done except to ask for part of the money back.

A simple law won't reform American business practices. Laws won't
reform the criminal element of American business. Daily, we see more
Americans that have happily screwed the eyeballs out of their fellow
Americans so they can lead the good life. American business is
broken. Ethically, American banking is in even worse shape.
Corruption, cronyism, lack of ethics and lack of morals are what
American big business is all about.

Think about that gawdawful first hearing with the auto makers where
they all flew up in their private jets to talk to Congress.

And at this point with the last bailout, there is an estimated 380
billion spent, and as much as half of that is totally unaccounted for;
the people that got the money (mostly banks at this point) refused to
even tell Congress where it went.

If you think that telling these folks to buy American will fix the
profound corporate greed and unethical behavior and make them models
for a high school civic class, we are so far apart on this we are on
different planets.

In a perfect world, the idea would work. But here and now, with our
system as it is with the people we have in charge, not a chance.

Well... that's it for me. I am going to prep the pit and the meat for
a nice brisket smoke for tomorrow. I hope to watch the game tomorrow
and watch the Redbirds pull an upset for all of us gray haired guys.

Robert

On Jan 30, 12:13*pm, Robatoy wrote:
Didn't anybody learn anything in the 1930's? Protectionism is a bad
idea. For anybody.

Protectionism seemed to work for Harley Davidson. And lack of
protectionism of any sort has moved much of our manufacturing
"overseas". In fact, our manufacturers have benefited from tax codes
that paid the owners to move their factories out of the country. The
grand irony is that without protecting our jobs and wages here, there
has been zero effort to increase wages in the countries where our jobs
have moved to. With the result that jobs keep going away, and we are
faced with competition from illegal immigrants who are trying to flee
the oppressive work environments in their countries. It's the grand
race to the bottom, largely of our own making.

On Jan 31, 12:11*pm, wrote:
On Jan 30, 12:13*pm, Robatoy wrote:

Didn't anybody learn anything in the 1930's? Protectionism is a bad
idea. For anybody.

Protectionism seemed to work for Harley Davidson. *And lack of
protectionism of any sort has moved much of our manufacturing
"overseas". *In fact, our manufacturers have benefited from tax codes
that paid the owners to move their factories out of the country. *The
grand irony is that without protecting our jobs and wages here, there
has been zero effort to increase wages in the countries where our jobs
have moved to. *With the result that jobs keep going away, and we are
faced with competition from illegal immigrants who are trying to flee
the oppressive work environments in their countries. *It's the grand
race to the bottom, largely of our own making.

Look at what happened to some of the European cities. Whole sections
of Amsterdam, the burbs surrounding Paris, the whole damned continent
is not allowed to eat pork anymore.(okay, a small illustrative
embellishment). And those were LEGAL immigrants.
Just to use a small example in The Netherlands.
The Dutch didn't want to do menial work anymore, like garbage
collecting, road-building etc. It was cheap to import a large
workforce from Turkey (one example to keep it simple, nothing against
the Turks). The Turks would come and work, sending the money home
whilst instituting mosques and taking over entire neighbourhoods. Then
they got representation in government and insisted on street sign in
Turkish, because anything less would be discrimination. The whole
political correctness took on an adversary position: OUR way or a
fine.
Now the Dutch can't even get a menial job anymore because it would be
discriminatory not to give it to an immigrant.

Does anybody still speak English in LA? (Other than those fag-pinko
Hollywood libtards?)
Isn't Chicago the world's largest Polish city?

Most old-school immigrants are grateful for the opportunities to help
build North America, and we should be grateful to them.
To them, it was a privilege.To the new batch, it has become a right.
They drag along all those ****ed-up customs that made them want to
leave in the their old country in the first place, then impose those
archaic rules on us.

Depending on foreign workers is as dangerous as depending on foreign
electronics, which have obsolescence and life-spans built in. What if
you DVD player breaks, eh? And you can't go to WallFart to buy a new
one for $ 29.95. You'll have to get it fixed at your local electronics
workshop.... and WHO do you think you'll be talking to then, eh
honkey?

Caveat. The above was a dramatization of what happens when people walk
this planet with their ears covered... by their butt-cheeks.

On Jan 31, 1:38*pm, Robatoy wrote:
On Jan 31, 12:11*pm, wrote:

On Jan 30, 12:13*pm, Robatoy wrote:

Didn't anybody learn anything in the 1930's? Protectionism is a bad
idea. For anybody.

Protectionism seemed to work for Harley Davidson. *And lack of
protectionism of any sort has moved much of our manufacturing
"overseas". *In fact, our manufacturers have benefited from tax codes
that paid the owners to move their factories out of the country. *The
grand irony is that without protecting our jobs and wages here, there
has been zero effort to increase wages in the countries where our jobs
have moved to. *With the result that jobs keep going away, and we are
faced with competition from illegal immigrants who are trying to flee
the oppressive work environments in their countries. *It's the grand
race to the bottom, largely of our own making.

Look at what happened to some of the European cities. Whole sections
of Amsterdam, the burbs surrounding Paris, the whole damned continent
is not allowed to eat pork anymore.(okay, a small illustrative
embellishment). And those were LEGAL immigrants.
Just to use a small example in The Netherlands.
The Dutch didn't want to do menial work anymore, like garbage
collecting, road-building etc. It was cheap to import a large
workforce from Turkey (one example to keep it simple, nothing against
the Turks). The Turks would come and work, sending the money home
whilst instituting mosques and taking over entire neighbourhoods. Then
they got representation in government and insisted on street sign in
Turkish, because anything less would be discrimination. The whole
political correctness took on an adversary position: OUR way or a
fine.
Now the Dutch can't even get a menial job anymore because it would be
discriminatory not to give it to an immigrant.

Does anybody still speak English in LA? (Other than those fag-pinko
Hollywood libtards?)
Isn't Chicago the world's largest Polish city?

Most old-school immigrants are grateful for the opportunities to help
build North America, and we should be grateful to them.
To them, it was a privilege.To the new batch, it has become a right.
They drag along all those ****ed-up customs that made them want to
leave in the their old country in the first place, then impose those
archaic rules on us.

Depending on foreign workers is as dangerous as depending on foreign
electronics, which have obsolescence and life-spans built in. What if
you DVD player breaks, eh? And you can't go to WallFart to buy a new
one for $ 29.95. You'll have to get it fixed at your local electronics
workshop.... and WHO do you think you'll be talking to then, eh
honkey?

Caveat. The above was a dramatization of what happens when people walk
this planet with their ears covered... by their butt-cheeks.

And now this, the tip of the iceberg:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/lif...cle5622156.ece