http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...01/wl_canada_a
fp/us_canada_lumber&e=5

Excerpt:

"The North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA) review panel rejected
claims by Washington that its lumber producers had suffered damage as a
result of Canadian imports.

The panel ordered the US International Trade Commission to reverse its
determination on the lumber imports, which resulted in the laying of 19
percent countervailing duties on Canadian wood, within 10 days."

Excerpt:

"The North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA) review panel rejected
claims by Washington that its lumber producers had suffered damage as a
result of Canadian imports.

The panel ordered the US International Trade Commission to reverse its
determination on the lumber imports, which resulted in the laying of 19
percent countervailing duties on Canadian wood, within 10 days."

Two things,
1. the news reports here indicate its a 27% duty and
2. The US can appeal, dragging this out (it seems) interminally..

Its already been going on 2 years..it seems they'll just keep it up til they
get the result they want, meanwhile, the extra overhead is passed on to who
?
The US consumer..

"Rudy" wrote in message
news:vKcZc.290948$gE.150665@pd7tw3no...

Two things,
1. the news reports here indicate its a 27% duty and
2. The US can appeal, dragging this out (it seems) interminally..

Its already been going on 2 years..it seems they'll just keep it up til
they
get the result they want,

Cooperation with the ICBM may do it for bush, I think!

Tell you what. US will export some environmentalists, if you'll take 'em
duty free, and nobody will harvest wood within ten years....


"Dave Balderstone" wrote in message
tone.ca...
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...01/wl_canada_a
fp/us_canada_lumber&e=5

Excerpt:

"The North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA) review panel rejected
claims by Washington that its lumber producers had suffered damage as a
result of Canadian imports.

The panel ordered the US International Trade Commission to reverse its
determination on the lumber imports, which resulted in the laying of 19
percent countervailing duties on Canadian wood, within 10 days."

"f/256" wrote in message
news

"Rudy" wrote in message
news:vKcZc.290948$gE.150665@pd7tw3no...

Two things,
1. the news reports here indicate its a 27% duty and
2. The US can appeal, dragging this out (it seems) interminally..

Its already been going on 2 years..it seems they'll just keep it up til
they
get the result they want,

Cooperation with the ICBM may do it for bush, I think!

Huh?

"George" george@least wrote in message
...
Tell you what. US will export some environmentalists, if you'll take 'em
duty free, and nobody will harvest wood within ten years....


"Dave Balderstone" wrote in message
tone.ca...
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...01/wl_canada_a
fp/us_canada_lumber&e=5

Excerpt:

"The North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA) review panel rejected
claims by Washington that its lumber producers had suffered damage as a
result of Canadian imports.

The panel ordered the US International Trade Commission to reverse its
determination on the lumber imports, which resulted in the laying of 19
percent countervailing duties on Canadian wood, within 10 days."

A common debating tactic with both conservatives and liberals in the United
States is to assume that the most radical positions of the opposite side
represent the views of every opponent. For example, "those loony tree
huggers want to ban all logging." In fact the vast majority of
conservationists call for RESPONSIBLE cutting and reforestration rather than
the clearcutting that was the industry norm a few years ago. Even the
lumber industry has bought into that for its own long-term good. In fact,
shipping a few conservationists to Canada would be a benefit for its
industry and a loss to ours.

Bob

In article , Bob Schmall
wrote:

In fact,
shipping a few conservationists to Canada would be a benefit for its
industry and a loss to ours.

We've got enough up here, tenjewberrymush.

Two things,
1. the news reports here indicate its a 27% duty and
2. The US can appeal, dragging this out (it seems) interminally..

Its already been going on 2 years..it seems they'll just keep it up til they
get the result they want, meanwhile, the extra overhead is passed on to who
?
The US consumer..

And the Canadian millworkers also suffer too. This all sucks. The
NAFTA panel has told the US Govt to stop fighting the rulings.

Today's Globe and Mail Report on Business reports that the WTO has
"given Canada the go-ahead to slap trade sanctions on the U.S., which
could amount to billions of dollars if Washington hands the more than
$2.7-billion (U.S.) in softwood levies collected from Canadian timber
over to American forest companies."

"Bob Schmall" wrote in message

huggers want to ban all logging." In fact the vast majority of
conservationists call for RESPONSIBLE cutting and reforestration rather
than
the clearcutting that was the industry norm a few years ago. Even the
lumber industry has bought into that for its own long-term good.

You're right. However, the problem with many current "reforestation" efforts
is the same problem with tomatoes in the grocery store ... product is
genetically designed for the benefit of the corporation, not the consumer.

Then again, a tasteless red biomass with soft seeds is marginally better in
a salad than nothing for those who never experienced the difference .... and
add a corollary for a tubafour while you're at it.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 7/10/04

"Swingman" wrote in message
...
"Bob Schmall" wrote in message

huggers want to ban all logging." In fact the vast majority of
conservationists call for RESPONSIBLE cutting and reforestration rather
than
the clearcutting that was the industry norm a few years ago. Even the
lumber industry has bought into that for its own long-term good.

You're right. However, the problem with many current "reforestation"
efforts
is the same problem with tomatoes in the grocery store ... product is
genetically designed for the benefit of the corporation, not the consumer.

And force-grown. It's still better than a depressing bald spot in what once
was a forest.

Then again, a tasteless red biomass with soft seeds is marginally better
in
a salad than nothing for those who never experienced the difference ....
and
add a corollary for a tubafour while you're at it.

Su
Corollary: never include reforested wood in your salad.

Are you saying you don't like square tomatoes that ship well? You oughta see
the hardwood peaches we get up here in Wisconsin.

No, you shouldn't

Bob

"Bob Schmall" wrote in message

And force-grown. It's still better than a depressing bald spot in what
once
was a forest.

I got a kick out of the clear-cut
practice/subterfuge/token-to-the-environmentalist (however you want to view
it) in Southern Arkansas where the land is flatter ... they leave strips
along the roads so you can't see the clear-cut and, as you're driving
through, you'd swear there wasn't a logging company for miles.

Probably what the suits tritely refer to as a "win-win" ... but, of course,
they win more.

Along those same lines, I am looking for some "heirloom" tomato seeds for
next year ... anyone know of a good source for old stock, genetically
unaltered, tomato?

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 7/10/04

Cooperation with the ICBM may do it for bush, I think!

Or slowing down the flow of Canadian oil and gas into the US.

"Swingman" wrote in message
...
"Bob Schmall" wrote in message

And force-grown. It's still better than a depressing bald spot in what
once
was a forest.

I got a kick out of the clear-cut
practice/subterfuge/token-to-the-environmentalist (however you want to
view
it) in Southern Arkansas where the land is flatter ... they leave strips
along the roads so you can't see the clear-cut and, as you're driving
through, you'd swear there wasn't a logging company for miles.

Probably what the suits tritely refer to as a "win-win" ... but, of
course,
they win more.

Along those same lines, I am looking for some "heirloom" tomato seeds for
next year ... anyone know of a good source for old stock, genetically
unaltered, tomato?

Got any wood-frame (Obww) farmer's tomato stands in your area? We're just
wrapping up the second coldest summer on record, and I finally, today, the
First of September, found ripe tomatoes at the local stand. Sheesh.

Bob

C'mon, as a cheesehead you should know better. You _can't_ grow seedling
conifers under mature, and if you thin them enough to get light to the
ground, the big ones blow over. That's why they're clear-cut. Fire used
to take care of the problem by clearing areas - to the ground - which it
sweetened with ashes enough for new growth. Anyone with sense can see that
the only difference between that and clear-cutting, then spreading lime to
sweeten the acid soil, is that you get to use the wood.

I'm next door, and we're harvesting at touch less than half the rate of
growth, and then only because of private landowners. The state and national
forests are harvested at around a third and slowing, because of agitation
for roadless initiatives and wilderness set-asides, not to mention my
favorite, the "wild and scenic rivers " initiative which would have locked
up a bit over twenty on my place. Public hearings were held 400 miles away,
by a group of government officials and environmentalists. Landowners were
allowed up to three minutes to address this unbiased group, even though they
were the ones who would bear the taking. Fortunately the initiator was
defeated in his downstate district, though not over a measure which was
popular among all those who would not have been affected.

Oh yes, the construction lumber mill up the road, which sawed softwood equal
in every way to the Canadian, went under recently because it couldn't get a
guaranteed supply.

"Bob Schmall" wrote in message
...
A common debating tactic with both conservatives and liberals in the
United
States is to assume that the most radical positions of the opposite side
represent the views of every opponent. For example, "those loony tree
huggers want to ban all logging." In fact the vast majority of
conservationists call for RESPONSIBLE cutting and reforestration rather
than
the clearcutting that was the industry norm a few years ago. Even the
lumber industry has bought into that for its own long-term good. In fact,
shipping a few conservationists to Canada would be a benefit for its
industry and a loss to ours.

On Wed, 1 Sep 2004 12:23:25 -0500, Swingman wrote:

Along those same lines, I am looking for some "heirloom" tomato seeds for
next year ... anyone know of a good source for old stock, genetically
unaltered, tomato?

Burpee has an heirloom line of seeds that I've been quite happy with
over the years. Good germination, great catalog.

Dave Hinz

"Bob Schmall" wrote in message

Got any wood-frame (Obww) farmer's tomato stands in your area? We're just
wrapping up the second coldest summer on record, and I finally, today, the
First of September, found ripe tomatoes at the local stand. Sheesh.

Global warming, eh?

We do have an abundance of farmer's produce markets and stands down here in
Texas, but most of the tomatoes are still of the hybrid variety that are
"engineered" more for shelf life than taste. I've been growing my own for a
while, on the front porch in an "earth box", but the varieties available as
seedlings are the same, basically tasteless, hybrids that you get at the
markets.

Taste being one of the last things to go, and wanting to take full advantage
of that fact, it is apparent that if I want to taste a real tomato again,
like the one's we had as kids on the farm, I am going to have to go to
extraordinary measures to do so. Next year I want to plant some old heirloom
seeds, in a flat like we used to do, then transplant to the "earth box", and
see if that doesn't improve things.

I've got a shaker with a combination of salt and pepper in it out in the
shop (Obww), and always keep a couple of tomatoes in the shop fridge ...
keeps your hand steady for those taper jig cuts.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 7/10/04

On Wed, 1 Sep 2004 13:42:06 -0500, Swingman wrote:
"Bob Schmall" wrote in message

Got any wood-frame (Obww) farmer's tomato stands in your area? We're just
wrapping up the second coldest summer on record, and I finally, today, the
First of September, found ripe tomatoes at the local stand. Sheesh.

Global warming, eh?

Once again, a non-scientist confuses "weather" with "climate".

In article ,
"Swingman" wrote:

"Bob Schmall" wrote in message

Got any wood-frame (Obww) farmer's tomato stands in your area? We're just
wrapping up the second coldest summer on record, and I finally, today, the
First of September, found ripe tomatoes at the local stand. Sheesh.

Global warming, eh?

We do have an abundance of farmer's produce markets and stands down here in
Texas, but most of the tomatoes are still of the hybrid variety that are
"engineered" more for shelf life than taste. I've been growing my own for a
while, on the front porch in an "earth box", but the varieties available as
seedlings are the same, basically tasteless, hybrids that you get at the
markets.

So don't buy seedlings. It's easy to start your own indoors from seeds,
and there's lots of good varieties available from some of the
lesser-known seed houses. We get most of ours from
http://www.johnnyseeds.com/. Many of the "heirloom" varieties produce
wrinkled or mis-shapen fruit which don't go over well in commercial
markets, but the taste can't be beat.

"Dave Hinz" wrote in message
On Wed, 1 Sep 2004 13:42:06 -0500, Swingman wrote:
"Bob Schmall" wrote in message

Got any wood-frame (Obww) farmer's tomato stands in your area? We're
just
wrapping up the second coldest summer on record, and I finally, today,
the
First of September, found ripe tomatoes at the local stand. Sheesh.

Global warming, eh?

Once again, a non-scientist confuses "weather" with "climate".

And once again, someone who has absolutely no knowledge of the actual facts
jumps to an erroneous conclusion.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 7/10/04

"Roy Smith" wrote in message

So don't buy seedlings. It's easy to start your own indoors from seeds,
and there's lots of good varieties available from some of the
lesser-known seed houses. We get most of ours from
http://www.johnnyseeds.com/. Many of the "heirloom" varieties produce
wrinkled or mis-shapen fruit which don't go over well in commercial
markets, but the taste can't be beat.

As I said, I am looking for "seeds" ... thanks for the link.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 7/10/04

Swingman notes:

Taste being one of the last things to go, and wanting to take full advantage
of that fact, it is apparent that if I want to taste a real tomato again,
like the one's we had as kids on the farm, I am going to have to go to
extraordinary measures to do so. Next year I want to plant some old heirloom
seeds, in a flat like we used to do, then transplant to the "earth box", and
see if that doesn't improve things.

I've got a shaker with a combination of salt and pepper in it out in the
shop (Obww), and always keep a couple of tomatoes in the shop fridge ...
keeps your hand steady for those taper jig cuts.

Don't know if it will help, or even if it still exists, but some years ago,
Burpee had some taste-centered old-fashioned seed. You can't really pick up
much in the way of non-long keepers here, either, but we're going to turn under
a quarter acre next year...well, in October...and plant some things we want.
Real corn. Tomatoes. No zucchini. But it has been a long time since we tried.
Got tired of feeding the damned deer.

Charlie Self
"A judge is a law student who marks his own examination papers." H. L. Mencken

Swingman wrote:

As I said, I am looking for "seeds" ... thanks for the link.

I checked. Should have done it first. Try www.burpee.com

They have more than 18 varieties of heirloom tomatoes.

Charlie Self
"A judge is a law student who marks his own examination papers." H. L. Mencken

"Charlie Self" wrote in message

Don't know if it will help, or even if it still exists, but some years
ago,
Burpee had some taste-centered old-fashioned seed. You can't really pick
up
much in the way of non-long keepers here, either, but we're going to turn
under
a quarter acre next year...well, in October...and plant some things we
want.
Real corn. Tomatoes. No zucchini. But it has been a long time since we
tried.
Got tired of feeding the damned deer.

The birds are the biggest problem here ... netting does a pretty job of
stopping that for someone reduced to front porch farming.

I heard Paul Harvey discussing "heirloom varities" the other day and it got
me thinking. No longer living in the country, but yearning for the things
that made those times so enjoyable as I get older, I am bound and determined
to taste a real tomato at least one more time.

And thanks for the burpee motherlode/link, Charlie ... I was just going
googling for "burpee" when I saw your second post.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 7/10/04

On Wed, 1 Sep 2004 14:41:21 -0500, Swingman wrote:

"Dave Hinz" wrote in message
On Wed, 1 Sep 2004 13:42:06 -0500, Swingman wrote:
"Bob Schmall" wrote in message
First of September, found ripe tomatoes at the local stand. Sheesh.

Global warming, eh?

Once again, a non-scientist confuses "weather" with "climate".

And once again, someone who has absolutely no knowledge of the actual facts
jumps to an erroneous conclusion.

Right, because one particular cold summer in one particular region has
anything at all to do with global warming.

you could try Vesseys if your in a colder climate
http://www.veseys.com/

James
www.cryscom.nb.ca

Charlie Self wrote:
Swingman wrote:


As I said, I am looking for "seeds" ... thanks for the link.


I checked. Should have done it first. Try www.burpee.com

They have more than 18 varieties of heirloom tomatoes.

Charlie Self
"A judge is a law student who marks his own examination papers." H. L. Mencken

"Bob Schmall" wrote in message

Got any wood-frame (Obww) farmer's tomato stands in your area? We're just
wrapping up the second coldest summer on record, and I finally, today, the
First of September, found ripe tomatoes at the local stand. Sheesh.

Yeah, here in Houston, we have had a really mild Summer also. 5 cold fronts
that actually lowered the temperatures to fall like temperatures before the
end of August. This normally does not happen until late October and
November.

"Dave Hinz" wrote in message
On Wed, 1 Sep 2004 14:41:21 -0500, Swingman wrote:

"Dave Hinz" wrote in message
On Wed, 1 Sep 2004 13:42:06 -0500, Swingman wrote:
"Bob Schmall" wrote in message
First of September, found ripe tomatoes at the local stand. Sheesh.

Global warming, eh?

Once again, a non-scientist confuses "weather" with "climate".

And once again, someone who has absolutely no knowledge of the actual
facts
jumps to an erroneous conclusion.

Right, because one particular cold summer in one particular region has
anything at all to do with global warming.

It was a JOKE, Dave ... you missed that too.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 7/10/04

On Wed, 1 Sep 2004 16:13:13 -0500, Swingman wrote:

"Dave Hinz" wrote in message
On Wed, 1 Sep 2004 14:41:21 -0500, Swingman wrote:

"Dave Hinz" wrote in message
On Wed, 1 Sep 2004 13:42:06 -0500, Swingman wrote:
"Bob Schmall" wrote in message
First of September, found ripe tomatoes at the local stand. Sheesh.

Global warming, eh?

Once again, a non-scientist confuses "weather" with "climate".

And once again, someone who has absolutely no knowledge of the actual
facts
jumps to an erroneous conclusion.

Right, because one particular cold summer in one particular region has
anything at all to do with global warming.

It was a JOKE, Dave ... you missed that too.

Ah, you see, it's so hard to tell when someone is only _acting like_
they don't understand science and saying "It was cold today therefore
global warming is false", and when they're actually saying that and
meaning it. I've had that conversation with more than a few people
who don't understand short-term vs. long-term trends, and I thought you
were one of them. I'm sorry; I didn't see that you were joking.

Dave Hinz

Try: http://www.johnnyseeds.com/welcome.html

They have some heirloom varieties of plants, including indeterminant
tomatoes.

"Swingman" wrote in message news:aeqdndMuCuwMmqvcRVn-
Along those same lines, I am looking for some "heirloom" tomato seeds for
next year ... anyone know of a good source for old stock, genetically
unaltered, tomato?

On Wed, 1 Sep 2004 13:42:06 -0500, "Swingman" wrote:

"Bob Schmall" wrote in message

Got any wood-frame (Obww) farmer's tomato stands in your area? We're just
wrapping up the second coldest summer on record, and I finally, today, the
First of September, found ripe tomatoes at the local stand. Sheesh.

Global warming, eh?

We do have an abundance of farmer's produce markets and stands down here in
Texas, but most of the tomatoes are still of the hybrid variety that are
"engineered" more for shelf life than taste. I've been growing my own for a
while, on the front porch in an "earth box", but the varieties available as
seedlings are the same, basically tasteless, hybrids that you get at the
markets.

Taste being one of the last things to go, and wanting to take full advantage
of that fact, it is apparent that if I want to taste a real tomato again,
like the one's we had as kids on the farm, I am going to have to go to
extraordinary measures to do so. Next year I want to plant some old heirloom
seeds, in a flat like we used to do, then transplant to the "earth box", and
see if that doesn't improve things.

The farmers that come to the Union Square Greenmarket have so many
"heirloom" tomato varieties that I have to believe seeds are available
somewhere. I have no place to grow them, but they sure are fun to eat.



Rodney Myrvaagnes NYC J36 Gjo/a

"WooWooism lives" Anon grafitto on the base of the Cuttyhunk breakwater light

Funny how the subject matter of a thread can change. This one started as
NAFTA, became Tomatoes, and then global warming. Guess we have to read ALL
threads since a lot of them mutate in the same manner.

By the way, the Summer here in NJ has been hotter than usual -- not more
record days but higher temps per day. Just for the record, Jersey tomatoes
are the best and this year it has been a bumper crop. Start all of mine
from seed and due mulch with the bountiful supply of sawdust I generate.

Happy woodworking/gardening.
"George" george@least wrote in message
...
Try: http://www.johnnyseeds.com/welcome.html

They have some heirloom varieties of plants, including indeterminant
tomatoes.

"Swingman" wrote in message news:aeqdndMuCuwMmqvcRVn-
Along those same lines, I am looking for some "heirloom" tomato seeds
for
next year ... anyone know of a good source for old stock, genetically
unaltered, tomato?

Gotta love it! From lumber to tomato seeds.

Charlie Self wrote:

Swingman notes:
[snip]


Don't know if it will help, or even if it still exists, but some years ago,
Burpee had some taste-centered old-fashioned seed. You can't really pick up
much in the way of non-long keepers here, either, but we're going to turn under
a quarter acre next year...well, in October...and plant some things we want.
Real corn. Tomatoes. No zucchini. But it has been a long time since we tried.
Got tired of feeding the damned deer.

That's called chumming. Venison sandwich with tomato and onion.
Yummers! ;-)

mahalo,
jo4hn

Try http://gurneys.com/ . Always great, at least when I was a kid.
j4

tomatoes-www.seedsavers.org or www.tomatofest.com . I think there's a retail
place for southwest seeds as well...

jo4hn responds:

Real corn. Tomatoes. No zucchini. But it has been a long time since we
tried.
Got tired of feeding the damned deer.

That's called chumming. Venison sandwich with tomato and onion.
Yummers! ;-)

No longer. It is now poaching. The only ones who can shoot deer on their own
property during off season are orchardists, etc. Joe & Jane Growmyown can get
some major fines for doing so, if they get caught. And we're so over-copped in
this county now, it is probable a poacher would get caught. Hell, they've got
so little to do that for the past 5-6 years they've had a computer operation to
toll Pennsylvania, NC, NJ and WV perverts into the county for arrest. Then we
get to pay the massive court costs to try the *******s.

Charlie Self
"A judge is a law student who marks his own examination papers." H. L. Mencken

In a hot climate, that mulch would be good. First, it sucks up nitrogen,
holding back the foliage on the tomato, and of course, it keeps moisture
available to shallow roots.

Those of us who struggle in the north to ripen a single tomato on the vine
avoid it, because it keeps the soil too cool. We also grow the more
commercial determinant types which set fruit all at once, because we don't
have the season.

The peas I didn't rip out are blossoming again, it's so cold and wet!

"Jack Casuso" wrote in message
. net...

By the way, the Summer here in NJ has been hotter than usual -- not more
record days but higher temps per day. Just for the record, Jersey
tomatoes
are the best and this year it has been a bumper crop. Start all of mine
from seed and due mulch with the bountiful supply of sawdust I generate.

Happy woodworking/gardening.

"John" wrote in message
...
Gotta love it! From lumber to tomato seeds.

It could easily segue into global warming. Oh, wait...

Bob

Amen!

Schroeder


"George" george@least wrote in message
...
C'mon, as a cheesehead you should know better. You _can't_ grow seedling
conifers under mature, and if you thin them enough to get light to the
ground, the big ones blow over. That's why they're clear-cut. Fire used
to take care of the problem by clearing areas - to the ground - which it
sweetened with ashes enough for new growth. Anyone with sense can see
that
the only difference between that and clear-cutting, then spreading lime to
sweeten the acid soil, is that you get to use the wood.

I'm next door, and we're harvesting at touch less than half the rate of
growth, and then only because of private landowners. The state and
national
forests are harvested at around a third and slowing, because of agitation
for roadless initiatives and wilderness set-asides, not to mention my
favorite, the "wild and scenic rivers " initiative which would have locked
up a bit over twenty on my place. Public hearings were held 400 miles
away,
by a group of government officials and environmentalists. Landowners were
allowed up to three minutes to address this unbiased group, even though
they
were the ones who would bear the taking. Fortunately the initiator was
defeated in his downstate district, though not over a measure which was
popular among all those who would not have been affected.

Oh yes, the construction lumber mill up the road, which sawed softwood
equal
in every way to the Canadian, went under recently because it couldn't get
a
guaranteed supply.

"Bob Schmall" wrote in message
...
A common debating tactic with both conservatives and liberals in the
United
States is to assume that the most radical positions of the opposite side
represent the views of every opponent. For example, "those loony tree
huggers want to ban all logging." In fact the vast majority of
conservationists call for RESPONSIBLE cutting and reforestration rather
than
the clearcutting that was the industry norm a few years ago. Even the
lumber industry has bought into that for its own long-term good. In
fact,
shipping a few conservationists to Canada would be a benefit for its
industry and a loss to ours.

On Wed, 1 Sep 2004 16:40:06 -0500, Swingman wrote:

"Dave Hinz" wrote in message

I've had that conversation with more than a few people
who don't understand short-term vs. long-term trends, and I thought you
were one of them. I'm sorry; I didn't see that you were joking.

No problem ... while I thought "eh?" was a dead giveaway, I apologize for
not being more emphatic considering the medium.

Text has that problem, yes. And I see that particular statement made so
often that they can't _all_ be joking, or can they?