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#1
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Glue Technique
Hi, All...
I was watching a good video on YouTube on woodworking, and the guy just glued one piece of a board before clamping. I use Titebond III and try to avoid end grain joints with tenons, rabits, or what ever. But I generally apply glue to BOTH pieces before clamping. For example, gluing up 3 six inch boards to make an 18 inch panel, 3/4 inch final thickness: Glue to all edges, then clamp. So, What is the concensus for putting glue on one piece, or both? Is there a risk of glue starvation on an otherwise snug joint? Thanks for any comments. Rich..... |
#2
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Glue Technique
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#4
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Glue Technique
wrote in message ... Hi, All... I was watching a good video on YouTube on woodworking, and the guy just glued one piece of a board before clamping. I use Titebond III and try to avoid end grain joints with tenons, rabits, or what ever. But I generally apply glue to BOTH pieces before clamping. For example, gluing up 3 six inch boards to make an 18 inch panel, 3/4 inch final thickness: Glue to all edges, then clamp. So, What is the concensus for putting glue on one piece, or both? Is there a risk of glue starvation on an otherwise snug joint? Thanks for any comments. Rich..... In 30 years I cannot remember a time when I applied regular wood working glue to both sides unless end grain in involved. You really don't want to glue both pieces if one is a veneer. I have never had a joint fail because I did not put glue on both sides. Really, the glue gets on both sides when you put them together. If you have a good tight joint to start with there will be no starvation. That said, if you glue both sides you do have more open time on a complicated glue up. |
#5
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Glue Technique
"Leon" wrote in message
... wrote in message ... Hi, All... I was watching a good video on YouTube on woodworking, and the guy just glued one piece of a board before clamping. I use Titebond III and try to avoid end grain joints with tenons, rabits, or what ever. But I generally apply glue to BOTH pieces before clamping. For example, gluing up 3 six inch boards to make an 18 inch panel, 3/4 inch final thickness: Glue to all edges, then clamp. So, What is the concensus for putting glue on one piece, or both? Is there a risk of glue starvation on an otherwise snug joint? Thanks for any comments. Rich..... In 30 years I cannot remember a time when I applied regular wood working glue to both sides unless end grain in involved. You really don't want to glue both pieces if one is a veneer. I have never had a joint fail because I did not put glue on both sides. Really, the glue gets on both sides when you put them together. If you have a good tight joint to start with there will be no starvation. The conventional wisdom is to wet both sides with glue. I think the reasoning is partial skinning, with yellow PVA especially, prevents full wetting of the mating face. It's easy enough to check. Stick two faces together and then pull them apart and see if both faces are fully wetted. There were distinct dry patches when I did this even, with an excess of glue. What does it mean? I guess most joints are over-designed in regards glue surface to begin with. That said, if you glue both sides you do have more open time on a complicated glue up. Which is made up for by requiring more time to spread glue on the other side. I do wish it were so, though. I'm tired of rushing the glue up to get them into clamps soon enough. |
#6
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Glue Technique
wrote:
Hi, All... I was watching a good video on YouTube on woodworking, and the guy just glued one piece of a board before clamping. I use Titebond III and try to avoid end grain joints with tenons, rabits, or what ever. But I generally apply glue to BOTH pieces before clamping. For example, gluing up 3 six inch boards to make an 18 inch panel, 3/4 inch final thickness: Glue to all edges, then clamp. So, What is the concensus for putting glue on one piece, or both? Is there a risk of glue starvation on an otherwise snug joint? Thanks for any comments. Rich..... It depend on the type of glue being used. Directions for polyurethane adhesives, for example, suggest dampening one edge and applying the glue to the second edge. -- Jack Novak Buffalo, NY - USA |
#7
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Glue Technique
Hmmmmmm... My take so far is to glue both sides, as there seems to be
no downside, and possible gain if both pieces are not wetted. Veneer or similar exceptions noted. I wonder if there have been any tests as to bond strength with only one side wetted? And I question the mfg saying do two sides, since there may be bias from their legal dept, or sales dept. Hmmm, this will take some more thought. Maybe glue some scrap, and see how it breaks apart. |
#8
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Glue Technique
On Jan 5, 3:19 pm, wrote:
Hi, All... I was watching a good video on YouTube on woodworking, and the guy just glued one piece of a board before clamping. I use Titebond III and try to avoid end grain joints with tenons, rabits, or what ever. But I generally apply glue to BOTH pieces before clamping. For example, gluing up 3 six inch boards to make an 18 inch panel, 3/4 inch final thickness: Glue to all edges, then clamp. In a panel glue up that thick, the joint is so strong what difference is a theoretical couple of spots that didn't adhere going to make? Nil. But having more glue than you need contributes to the boards sliding around out of alignment, wastes glue, more cleanup. You could do it on both sides at just the ends if you really thought it would make a difference. In a contest between glue spread out evenly on one side, and glue on both sides but just a bead run down without spreading, my money would be on the spread on one side being stronger. -Kevin |
#9
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Glue Technique
"MikeWhy" wrote in message news "Leon" wrote in message ... In 30 years I cannot remember a time when I applied regular wood working glue to both sides unless end grain in involved. You really don't want to glue both pieces if one is a veneer. I have never had a joint fail because I did not put glue on both sides. Really, the glue gets on both sides when you put them together. If you have a good tight joint to start with there will be no starvation. The conventional wisdom is to wet both sides with glue. I think the reasoning is partial skinning, with yellow PVA especially, prevents full wetting of the mating face. It's easy enough to check. Stick two faces together and then pull them apart and see if both faces are fully wetted. There were distinct dry patches when I did this even, with an excess of glue. What does it mean? I guess most joints are over-designed in regards glue surface to begin with. Yeah but if the glue skims over, it does so on both pieces does skimmed over glue stick well to skimmed over glue? ;!) That said, if you glue both sides you do have more open time on a complicated glue up. Which is made up for by requiring more time to spread glue on the other side. I do wish it were so, though. I'm tired of rushing the glue up to get them into clamps soon enough. With lots of practice you eventually learn to get the glue out spread quickly qirh out muxh fuss. I remember a time when glue up required lots of set up time. Not so much any more. I probably should have qualified my statement more. If glueing end grain I tyically apply glue to the end gran and let the soaking in start up, glue the mating surface and then rewet the end grain side and then clamp. |
#10
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Glue Technique
wrote in message ... Hmmmmmm... My take so far is to glue both sides, as there seems to be no downside, and possible gain if both pieces are not wetted. Veneer or similar exceptions noted. I wonder if there have been any tests as to bond strength with only one side wetted? And I question the mfg saying do two sides, since there may be bias from their legal dept, or sales dept. Hmmm, this will take some more thought. Maybe glue some scrap, and see how it breaks apart. With polyurethane the "wet" water is the catalyst, it really does not do much other than activating the glue. If you applied glue to the wet side you start to get foaming and curing sooner than you might want. |
#11
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Glue Technique
"Leon" wrote in message
... "MikeWhy" wrote in message news "Leon" wrote in message ... In 30 years I cannot remember a time when I applied regular wood working glue to both sides unless end grain in involved. You really don't want to glue both pieces if one is a veneer. I have never had a joint fail because I did not put glue on both sides. Really, the glue gets on both sides when you put them together. If you have a good tight joint to start with there will be no starvation. The conventional wisdom is to wet both sides with glue. I think the reasoning is partial skinning, with yellow PVA especially, prevents full wetting of the mating face. It's easy enough to check. Stick two faces together and then pull them apart and see if both faces are fully wetted. There were distinct dry patches when I did this even, with an excess of glue. What does it mean? I guess most joints are over-designed in regards glue surface to begin with. Yeah but if the glue skims over, it does so on both pieces does skimmed over glue stick well to skimmed over glue? ;!) I wrote unclearly. By the time you're done painting up the one side, part of it will have already skinned over. If you glue only one face, leaving the other face dry, that joint will be skinned glue on bare wood, and probably compromised. Skinned glue on skinned glue is the normal case, I think, and perfectly OK. That said, if you glue both sides you do have more open time on a complicated glue up. Which is made up for by requiring more time to spread glue on the other side. I do wish it were so, though. I'm tired of rushing the glue up to get them into clamps soon enough. With lots of practice you eventually learn to get the glue out spread quickly qirh out muxh fuss. I remember a time when glue up required lots of set up time. Not so much any more. I probably should have qualified my statement more. If glueing end grain I tyically apply glue to the end gran and let the soaking in start up, glue the mating surface and then rewet the end grain side and then clamp. Might be that my view is skewed from using glue that seems half dried from the start. The low humidity isn't helping, either. A coupla weeks ago, I did a simple box shape, 4 sides and a ply sheet, 16 biscuits in all, that had to come together as one glue up. The glue was some old yellow Elmers I had left over from last century, and skins over almost as it's leaving the bottle. I'm thinking of chucking the remaining half gallon and just get simple white glue. Fuhget about Titebond dis or dat, and watertight nuthin. I just want the glue to still be glue when I stick the pieces together. It was a hectic footrace, and I had 12 of them to do. The last few weren't any more fun than the first few. |
#12
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Glue Technique
wrote:
Hi, All... I was watching a good video on YouTube on woodworking, and the guy just glued one piece of a board before clamping. I use Titebond III and try to avoid end grain joints with tenons, rabits, or what ever. But I generally apply glue to BOTH pieces before clamping. For example, gluing up 3 six inch boards to make an 18 inch panel, 3/4 inch final thickness: Glue to all edges, then clamp. So, What is the concensus for putting glue on one piece, or both? Is there a risk of glue starvation on an otherwise snug joint? I use yellow Titebond 99.8% of the time. I put glue on one surface...a bead in a sine wave shape. When I mate them, I slide them (horizontally) into position then clamp. If the glue had skinned a bit before joining the sliding/clamping breaks the skin and distributes glue. If you get squeeze out (I always do) there is no "starvation". If you fear it, use more glue and clean off the squeeze out. I have never had a joint fail. -- dadiOH ____________________________ dadiOH's dandies v3.06... ....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that. Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico |
#13
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Glue Technique
"MikeWhy" wrote in message ... "Leon" wrote in message ... Snip Might be that my view is skewed from using glue that seems half dried from the start. The low humidity isn't helping, either. Climate certainly has an effect on the glue. A coupla weeks ago, I did a simple box shape, 4 sides and a ply sheet, 16 biscuits in all, that had to come together as one glue up. The glue was some old yellow Elmers I had left over from last century, and skins over almost as it's leaving the bottle. I'm thinking of chucking the remaining half gallon and just get simple white glue. Fuhget about Titebond dis or dat, and watertight nuthin. I just want the glue to still be glue when I stick the pieces together. It was a hectic footrace, and I had 12 of them to do. The last few weren't any more fun than the first few. As the old saying goes, glue is cheap compared to your time an other materials. Get rid of your old glue. I keep several glues on hand and mostly for color. TB II IMHO has a pretty long open time for a regular wood glue but tends to be runny and a bit messy and you need very good fitting joints to hide the yellow. The old Elmer's Tite Bond had a fast tack but fried closer to white. TB III seems a bit thicker and dries to an actual medium brown wood color. Recently I have used Gorilla WHITE PVA Woodworkers glue because it is white and does not dry with a distracting color, this was for a maple project. Also TB Trim Adhesive is white and dries to a non yellow color however it dries a bit more quickly and is very thick, IIRC it will not pour out of the bottle, you have to squeeze the bottle to dispense. Then there is the slow set TB glue for longer open times. I buy poly urethane as needed, it's expensive, has a short shelf life, and is really messy if you are not careful. |
#14
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Glue Technique
wrote:
Hmmmmmm... My take so far is to glue both sides, as there seems to be no downside, and possible gain if both pieces are not wetted. Veneer or similar exceptions noted. I wonder if there have been any tests as to bond strength with only one side wetted? And I question the mfg saying do two sides, since there may be bias from their legal dept, or sales dept. Hmmm, this will take some more thought. Maybe glue some scrap, and see how it breaks apart. Personally, if Leon says he hasn't glued both sides and never had a failure, thats good enough for me. I've always glued both sides, or one side and rubbed the two together to get even distribution. Now I think the glue companies say glue both sides to sell more glue... 30 years experience trumps just about anything... -- Jack Using FREE News Server: http://Motzarella.org http://jbstein.com |
#15
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Glue Technique
On Jan 6, 11:32*am, Jack Stein wrote:
Personally, if Leon says he hasn't glued both sides and never had a failure, thats good enough for me. I'm sure that's true. Personally, I glue as needed, and it depends on which glue I am using. Glue has become such an integral part of my repair/remodel business, I think the only things we use more is screws. If I am doing a utility glue, I only glue one side, unless the material is rough and porous like OSB or CDX. Most repairs, the same way. When I put a small broken piece of material back or attach a piece of trim, I just glue one side. I still glue both edges when I do a layup, though. I don't worry about a "glue starved joint" or any business like that. No matter the amount of prep, the edges may not mate up to standards of invisibility when attached. I want glue in the hairline joint, no a void I have to fill later after sanding or planing. I think my odds of filling that tiny void are much better with both sides glued. Maybe not... but I know I am not alone; that's why we have colored glue, right? *Now I think the glue companies say glue both sides to sell more glue... *30 years experience trumps just about anything... Think about it. How many non-trades people use so much glue that they constantly replace their supply? How fresh is the glue that many DIYs are using? Think how many posts have been here about guys that are trying to make the remaining skinned over gel in their bottles work by heating, adding water, etc., instead of buying a new $4 bottle of glue. I think the "glue both sides" part of the equation is to make up for poor technique and joining failure as much as possible. That way not enough clamp pressure, improper surface preparation, improper application, and maybe even stinginess with the glue can be at least partially overcome with glue on both mating surfaces. Just a thought... Robert |
#16
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Glue Technique
wrote in message ... On Jan 6, 11:32 am, Jack Stein wrote: Snip I think the "glue both sides" part of the equation is to make up for poor technique and joining failure as much as possible. That way not enough clamp pressure, improper surface preparation, improper application, and maybe even stinginess with the glue can be at least partially overcome with glue on both mating surfaces. Just a thought... Robert Actually my comments are strictly concerning furniture and cabinet grade building when referencing a single side glue application. If gluing construction grade I am not too sure that too much is "too much". |
#17
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Glue Technique
[...snip...]
The conventional wisdom is to wet both sides with glue. I think the reasoning is partial skinning, with yellow PVA especially, prevents full wetting of the mating face. [...snip...] Also simple surface tension; even if you are fast enough to avoid skinning, you still have to physically break through the "skin" that any liquid will have on the surface. |
#18
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Glue Technique
On Jan 6, 1:39*pm, "Leon" wrote:
Actually my comments are strictly concerning furniture and cabinet grade building when referencing a single side glue application. * I knew what you were saying, I just took the liberty to expand on it a bit. If gluing construction grade I am not too sure that too much is "too much". Heh heh... no kiddin'. When building a site built sandwich beam or a large header, I rely on TB II 100%. Plywood and wood become as one. Never seen one of those break or even deflect past the camber. Most of the time, not even that much. On another track, I am a big fan of the old school liquid nails, but about 3 years ago tried the polyurethane tube glues. They seem to hold like hell, fill in gaps well, and dry hard and completely water resistant. The only downside is the tendency to creep and for the glue to seep out of the joints. So for structure work, or for something you will mechanically secure it's great. Works well on the back of hardened masonite panels if you run into that kind of paneling. Have you tried any of those PU tube glues? Robert |
#19
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Glue Technique
On Tue, 06 Jan 2009 12:32:28 -0500, Jack Stein
wrote: wrote: Hmmmmmm... My take so far is to glue both sides, as there seems to be no downside, and possible gain if both pieces are not wetted. Veneer or similar exceptions noted. I wonder if there have been any tests as to bond strength with only one side wetted? And I question the mfg saying do two sides, since there may be bias from their legal dept, or sales dept. Hmmm, this will take some more thought. Maybe glue some scrap, and see how it breaks apart. Personally, if Leon says he hasn't glued both sides and never had a failure, thats good enough for me. I've always glued both sides, or one side and rubbed the two together to get even distribution. Now I think the glue companies say glue both sides to sell more glue... 30 years experience trumps just about anything... I thought about that. Use more glue, sell more glue. Experienced woodworkers know how much glue to apply. Glue dripping all over is both a waste and a mess. If I were applying to one side only, this would be the time to change and apply to both surfaces. A rubbed joint is almost as good as applying to both surfaces. |
#20
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Glue Technique
On Mon, 5 Jan 2009 20:37:38 -0600, "Leon"
wrote: "MikeWhy" wrote in message news "Leon" wrote in message ... In 30 years I cannot remember a time when I applied regular wood working glue to both sides unless end grain in involved. You really don't want to glue both pieces if one is a veneer. I have never had a joint fail because I did not put glue on both sides. Really, the glue gets on both sides when you put them together. If you have a good tight joint to start with there will be no starvation. The conventional wisdom is to wet both sides with glue. I think the reasoning is partial skinning, with yellow PVA especially, prevents full wetting of the mating face. It's easy enough to check. Stick two faces together and then pull them apart and see if both faces are fully wetted. There were distinct dry patches when I did this even, with an excess of glue. What does it mean? I guess most joints are over-designed in regards glue surface to begin with. Yeah but if the glue skims over, it does so on both pieces does skimmed over glue stick well to skimmed over glue? ;!) I've never had a "skim over," but I plan a glue up carefully to get the piece assembled quickly. Glue brushes, glue roller, unused credit card, and finger is what I use to spread glue quickly. Clamps, jigs, damp rag are nearby. Dryfitting everything speeds everything up and if the item is complex, I'll glue up part of it. |
#21
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Glue Technique
It's funny (and fun) how we get so caught up with simple things.
Musicians do the same thing. A drummer friend of mine once said, "We have a tendency to make rocket science out of hitting things with sticks." :-) -- -MIKE- "Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life" --Elvin Jones (1927-2004) -- http://mikedrums.com ---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply |
#22
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Glue Technique
wrote in message ... On Jan 6, 1:39 pm, "Leon" wrote: When building a site built sandwich beam or a large header, I rely on TB II 100%. Plywood and wood become as one. Never seen one of those break or even deflect past the camber. Most of the time, not even that much. On another track, I am a big fan of the old school liquid nails, but about 3 years ago tried the polyurethane tube glues. They seem to hold like hell, fill in gaps well, and dry hard and completely water resistant. The only downside is the tendency to creep and for the glue to seep out of the joints. So for structure work, or for something you will mechanically secure it's great. Works well on the back of hardened masonite panels if you run into that kind of paneling. Have you tried any of those PU tube glues? Nooouuu I have not, did not know that they existed. Are they expensive? Seems there would be a lot of poly glue in one of those tubes. I do occasionally use the masonite panels, the ones with the decorative surface on the other side. I starten using that stuff 20 years ago in our kitchen as a temp application to simulate a tile back splash. It is still up on the kitchen walls above the counter tops and still looks brand new. Does the caulk poly have a faster tack? |
#23
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Glue Technique
wrote:
On another track, I am a big fan of the old school liquid nails, but about 3 years ago tried the polyurethane tube glues. They seem to hold like hell, fill in gaps well, and dry hard and completely water resistant. The only downside is the tendency to creep and for the glue to seep out of the joints. So for structure work, or for something you will mechanically secure it's great. Works well on the back of hardened masonite panels if you run into that kind of paneling. Have you tried any of those PU tube glues? Funny you should mention Liquid Nails. My first below ground, tank farm, electronic liquid level inventory control and measurement system sold was to a Liquid Nails manufacturing facility. Changes in EPA requirements made it less costly to build a new facility than to rehab the existing one. In the SFWIW category, Sika is a major world wide player not only in marine, but also industrial sealants and adhesives. There USA tech service is located in metro Detroit complete with an 800#. Have always found them to be very much up to snuff when it comes to getting application assistance. Also, their distributors will work with you. YMMV Lew |
#24
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Glue Technique
On Jan 6, 5:52*pm, "Leon" wrote:
Nooouuu I have not, did not know that they existed. *Are they expensive? No, I don't think so. I believe about $4.50 a tube. Liquid nails makes their version: http://tinyurl.com/99uy2t and Sonneborn makes one as well. The neat thing is that you can use them for just about everything. Seems there would be a lot of poly glue in one of those tubes. * There is! And a little goes a long way with this stuff, too. The good news is that if you make a mushroom cap of glue at the end of the tube when you are finished, you can pull it out the next day and continue to use it, so depending on what I am doing, I can usually use the whole tube. I do occasionally use the masonite panels, the ones with the decorative surface on the other side. *I starten using that stuff 20 years ago in our kitchen as a temp application to simulate a tile back splash. *It is still up on the kitchen walls above the counter tops and still looks brand new. * That is what started me using this stuff. I was putting up thin masonite bead board that was hard polished from the presses on one side, and finished "Glacier White" backed enamel bead pattern on the other. I had to secure the top and bottom and glue the field because the a brad left a dimple *ugly) in a perfectly white and clean finish. I covered the bottom of the piece with a beaded screen so I could nail there, and the top with a really small chair rail. No glue only joints in the field have popped or moved in about 5 years. Does the caulk poly have a faster tack? Not faster than regular solvent Liquid Nails. Probably just a tiny bit longer on the poly stuff. I like the poly for a lot of things because if its viscosity. For example, weather is cool today. With LN, a nice bead must be mashed out as it will be thick due to the cooler weather. Temps (until it gets really hot) don't seem to change the poly much, and it is really easy to work with. A nice bead of the stuff squishes down nicely with little effort, and no spring back like I have had with LN in cool weather. The poly dries really hard and is impervious to water. Old faithful LN dries pretty hard, and is porous, making it susceptible to water damage if used outside. Both still have a place for me in the tool box. Robert |
#25
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Glue Technique
Thanks for the info, I'll have to look for it and spearment with it.
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#26
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Glue Technique
On Jan 6, 6:32*pm, "Lew Hodgett" wrote:
In the SFWIW category, Sika is a major world wide player not only in marine, but also industrial sealants and adhesives. When I was working in commercial work, we used an awful lot of "Sikaflex" and its cousins when pouring tilt panels. All the vertical joints were sealed with it, as well as the interior pad to panel connections. We had a company that did nothing else, and they drove up in trucks with 55 gallon barrels of that stuff on it and they used pneumatic caulk guns. I think some of those guys were artists in their other lives. As it is now, we use some of their products in waterproofing details. Between Sika and Sonneborn, I honestly can't think of better manufacturers of waterproofing products. Robert |
#27
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Glue Technique
Also simple surface tension; even if you are fast enough to avoid
skinning, you still have to physically break through the "skin" that any liquid will have on the surface. What is this skin you speak of? :-) Seriously, is I take a little extra time with a glueup, I end up with higher viscosity glue not "skin". Are you woodworking in the desert? -Steve |
#28
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Glue Technique
StephenM wrote:
Also simple surface tension; even if you are fast enough to avoid skinning, you still have to physically break through the "skin" that any liquid will have on the surface. What is this skin you speak of? :-) Seriously, is I take a little extra time with a glueup, I end up with higher viscosity glue not "skin". With most common woodworking glues - yellow, white - the glue dries from the outside in. If you put a drop somewhere it will form a skin...push on it and fresh, unskinned glue gushes forth. Yours is probably "higher viscosity" because it is a thin layer and the higher viscosity is because it has skinned. Higher viscosity/skinned is not good because it won't wet out the wood as it should. -- dadiOH ____________________________ dadiOH's dandies v3.06... ....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that. Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico |
#29
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Glue Technique
Liquid Nails has gone nuts with so many
versions of what I think is the same product. I don't understand that marketing method but it sure is confusing. wrote: No, I don't think so. I believe about $4.50 a tube. Liquid nails makes their version: http://tinyurl.com/99uy2t |
#30
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Glue Technique
What is this skin you speak of? :-) Seriously, is I take a little extra time with a glueup, I end up with higher viscosity glue not "skin". With most common woodworking glues - yellow, white - the glue dries from the outside in. If you put a drop somewhere it will form a skin...push on it and fresh, unskinned glue gushes forth. Yours is probably "higher viscosity" because it is a thin layer and the higher viscosity is because it has skinned. Higher viscosity/skinned is not good because it won't wet out the wood as it should. "skin" could be defined as viscosity gradiant. In my experience, I do not notice any gradiant, just thicker glue. Then again, maybe I just work quickly. If I don't think I can get an assembly together within 10 minutes, I try to find a way to get it done with sub-assemblies. The OP initially asked (paraphrased) Gluing, one side or two? More often than not my glued surface stays open to the air for less than 2 minutes ... viscosity/skin seldom comes into play. It would probably be fair to say that gluing both sides buys wou a little more working time if you need it. -Steve |
#31
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Glue Technique
StephenM wrote:
Also simple surface tension; even if you are fast enough to avoid skinning, you still have to physically break through the "skin" that any liquid will have on the surface. What is this skin you speak of? :-) Seriously, is I take a little extra time with a glueup, I end up with higher viscosity glue not "skin". Are you woodworking in the desert? He mentioned surface tension. Even pure water has a skin in that sense--some critters even use it to move about (google "water strider" for one example). -- -- --John to email, dial "usenet" and validate (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net) |
#32
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Glue Technique
Trimmed for brevity...
you still have to physically break through the "skin" that any liquid will have on the surface. What is this skin you speak of? :-) He mentioned surface tension. I conceed that I did not address the surface tension interpretation of "skin". I believe that assembling a joint would provide sufficient force to overcome surface tension a.k.a. hydrostatic pressure. -Steve |
#33
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Glue Technique
"StephenM" wrote in message
... Trimmed for brevity... you still have to physically break through the "skin" that any liquid will have on the surface. What is this skin you speak of? :-) He mentioned surface tension. I conceed that I did not address the surface tension interpretation of "skin". I believe that assembling a joint would provide sufficient force to overcome surface tension a.k.a. hydrostatic pressure. The other half of that thought is if there's anything under that skin to squeeze out, it's more squeeze out than I like. Normally, I run a squiggle down each edge, and smear 'em to flat films with my finger. Each face is fully wetted, leaving very little that can squeeze out. I suppose if I put the same amount of glue, the same amount as for both edges, onto just the first edge, there should be enough to squeeze out. I dunno. I guess it could work, but just seems so hit or miss. You run a double size bead, and then smoosh it around blindly with the other piece. Too small of a bead means not enough glue; too much means lots of cleanup. As it is, I inevitably have to wipe some extra off my finger, or move some of the extra to a slight dry area. It could work. Just put on a double size squiggly bead, smoosh the two across each other for half the squiggle distance, and come back a full squiggle distance. It could work. It just seems so... so... imprecise? caveman? Come to think of it, that's not the real problem. Flat straight edges are fast and easy, either way you do it. It's buttering up the biscuits and feeding their holes, or painting up the M&T that takes up time. There's not enough sliding room to do the smooshing around with biscuits, and none at all with M&T. Do you just clamp and hope for the best? |
#34
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Glue Technique
StephenM wrote:
Trimmed for brevity... you still have to physically break through the "skin" that any liquid will have on the surface. What is this skin you speak of? :-) He mentioned surface tension. I conceed that I did not address the surface tension interpretation of "skin". I believe that assembling a joint would provide sufficient force to overcome surface tension a.k.a. hydrostatic pressure. Surface tension is not hydrostatic pressure. Surface tension is a molecular adhesion effect that occurs even in the absence of significant pressure. -- -- --John to email, dial "usenet" and validate (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net) |
#35
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Glue Technique
Surface tension is not hydrostatic pressure. Surface tension is a
molecular adhesion effect that occurs even in the absence of significant pressure. I understood hydrostatic pressure to the term for that molecular adhesion. Thanks for setting me straight. Steve |
#36
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Glue Technique
On Jan 7, 10:16*am, Pat Barber wrote:
Liquid Nails has gone nuts with so many versions of what I think is the same product. I don't understand that marketing method but it sure is confusing. I am thinking that the old formula stuff is all the same as well. Maybe a tiny bit of formula change to stay clear of litigation, but nothing significant. In a pinch, I have used all the old solvent based stuff for anything as needed and never had a failure. Robert |
#37
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Glue Technique
I almost always just hit one edge except if I'm gluing something
porous - like hardwood edging onto plywood. Then I hit the ply and the hardwood. (Except if it's wider edging - then I hit the ply, let it soak in for 30 seconds or so and then hit it again - and I don't put glue on the hardwood because I don't want to have to work to keep it just on the portion that will be attached to the plywood.) That said, I glued up a long miter on site today and put a thin coat on both surfaces before clamping/taping. But for simple hardwood panel glue-ups I just hit one edge with just enough glue to give me just a little squiggly line of squeeze-out - not wider than say 1/16" wide on top. Soooo.....I guess my answer is "it depends"! JP |
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