humunculus wrote:
On Nov 29, 1:44 am, "J. Clarke" wrote:
humunculus wrote:

Hmm....I love a mystery, but less so when I know it might never be
answered.
The thing that's bugging me is that I feel like I've seen one of those
damn things somewhere and I have no idea where it was.

--

- Show quoted text -

Exactly! Hmmm....

--riverman


I think it's a belt rack out of a clothing store

Terry Coombs wrote:
E Z Peaces wrote:
DoN. Nichols wrote:

Of course -- it could be totally unrelated to anything else in
the truck -- having simply been scavenged from somewhere as a source
of metal. :-)

Enjoy,
DoN.

Uh-oh, I don't know that the truck has any electric welding equipment.
I jumped to the conclusion that the blue box contained a generator and
electric welder. If that's wrong, it seems there are three pairs of
gas lines visible.

On the right hand side of that object at the front is what looks to me
like an exhaust pipe . I'd bet even money it's a welding machine , a big one
too !

I showed my grayscale copy of the photo to the trucker. He said yes,
the ring is for seating tire beads and the hooks are to be pulled by a
lever in the hub. He said tools like this were developed for bias-ply
tires. He said the ring he saw was squeezed shut with screws pulling the
ends together, but sometimes straps were used to seat beads.

His eyes lit up as he talked about what he recognized. He says it's a
2-ton service truck for farm equipment. Seeing only grays, he could
identify one item after another. The box is a welder. The lines on the
left are for acetylene welding. The tank on the right is refrigerant.
Regardless of color, the tanks under the ladder are for acetylene
welding. The reeled lines show there's an air compressor aboard.

The tank behind the ammunition box caught his eye because he didn't
recognize it at first. Then he remembered it was for compressed air.
It was made to release a burst of air when dropped. I didn't have time
to ask why.

(I think he was mistaken about the lines hanging to the left of the
welder. There is a dual acetylene line with the tanks. They are
portable and wouldn't need long lines. I think the lines by the welder
are for electric welding.)

Nahmie wrote:
On Nov 28, 11:44 am, "J. Clarke" wrote:

humunculus wrote:

On Nov 28, 11:20 pm, E Z Peaces wrote:

E Z Peaces wrote:

E Z Peaces wrote:

Rob H. wrote:

I haven't had any luck in identifying the large metal ring in
number 1473, maybe someone here will recognize it.

http://55tools.blogspot.com/

Rob

Patent 4997020 is for a device where a metal band of several
sections
would be tightened around a truck tire to seat the bead. It says
putting a strap around the tire was an established method, but this
would result in asymmetrical pressure, due in part to friction
between the strap and the rubber.

1473 could reduce friction in tightening a strap. The hooks could
also be a means of compensating for asymmetrical pressure by
exerting pull between hooks across the circle.

I dunno...the patent device seems to be made of a series (at least
3)
sections that can overlap, so tighening the device reduces the
circumference. This thing seems pretty solid.

Some observations: the 'handles' are directly opposite that D-shaped
stain on the opposite side. It might be the bottom, with the two
handles on top at 10:00 and 2:00.

The truck seems to be a welder's truck....does this have anything to
do with welding? If not, could it be something he is taking back to
be
repaired?

Around the rim of the ring are 7 'rods' that extend beyond the ring.
Are the ends of these rods bent outward, or are there little 'knobs'
at the top? And between each rod are 5 small angled things, that
look
like they could be used to secure a flat plate on to the ring.

Hmm....I love a mystery, but less so when I know it might never be
answered.

The thing that's bugging me is that I feel like I've seen one of those
damn things somewhere and I have no idea where it was.

--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


Wild guess here - Could it have anything to do with pipeline work? I
see a lot of trucks like this in the East Texas area, several right
here in the RV park we stay in, and these guys are doing gas/oil
pipeliune construction. Still don't know what that big ring is for,
but just thought I might throw in an alternative employment for the
vehicle.


The welder in the front is sometimes called a pipeliner.



John

On Sat, 29 Nov 2008 07:29:36 -0500, "Rob H."
wrote:

I agree that rods look like they could get in the way of the automated
welder, the ring in the video did have a handle, although it was rotated 90
degrees and wasn't sticking out as far as the one in my photo. I was
thinking this ring could be for a different model than the one seen in the
video, or maybe it wasn't used with the automated welders at all, but was
still used as a pipeline welding clamp.

Rob, it looked to me that the "handle" in the video is really a
clasp that draws the ring together at a split. If the ring is a
solid ring, then how is it removed from the pipe after using? It
can't be slipped off as the added pipe section would be supported at
several points. I didn't see a split in the pictured ring, but it
could be at the bottom and obscured by the other stuff in the truck.

I also wonder about the obstruction caused by the rather large
handle and the protruding rods. I guess it's possible the rods are
what the welder used to propel but then the welder is quite
different than we have seen so far.

I showed my grayscale copy of the photo to the trucker. He said yes, the
ring is for seating tire beads and the hooks are to be pulled by a lever
in the hub. He said tools like this were developed for bias-ply tires. He
said the ring he saw was squeezed shut with screws pulling the ends
together, but sometimes straps were used to seat beads.



Well, if you can find some links to a tire beading ring that looks like the
one on my site, I'd be happy to take a look, but the links below contain
what I believe is the definitive answer for this metal band.

I posted a link to my site on a welding newsgroup, where eventually someone
posted this link, which says that it's a bevel band:

http://cgi.ebay.com/SAWYER-206A-BAND...13126002r33232

I also found this page:

http://www.kiwahweld.com/welding_equipment.htm

....where they have links to several beveling bands as seen he

http://www.kiwahweld.com/images/EQUI...ing%20band.jpg

http://www.kiwahweld.com/images/EQUI...g%20band. jpg


Someone else on the welding newsgroup provided some further info on the
beveling band:


"It's a pipe beveler band for a large pipe, and can be used to mount an
automated bug welder. Looks like about a 36". The traveling carriage
portion is held to the band by four little wheels with grooves in it. The
band is held off the pipe with little round feet. It is clamped around a
pipe, and then there is a hand cranked carriage that holds the cutting torch
positioned to the right angle. When used as a bug band, the traveling
portion is motorized. It usually holds a FCAW torch head, and has a plate
about 1 square foot that the welder looks through. There are six control
knobs to regulate speed and angle, as it changes with every pass. We used
these to weld 36" caisson 1.5" wall thickness with the caisson in the
vertical position, the weld in the horizontal 2g position. They are
essential in getting a precision cut on two BIG pieces of pipe so they line
up, and even though they work pretty good, and you can have a good operator,
there's a lot of work, not to mention skill, to bevel two pieces of pipe,
get a decent root, and get it all right on that big a piece of pipe. But
hey, if you blow it, you just start over. It would take the better part of
a day to bevel two ends, dress them, weld them out, and x ray them.

Last thought, kind of a spendy piece of precision equipment to be tossed in
a truck like that."


Still seems to me that the rods would get in the way of an automated welder,
but maybe not if the welder was made to be used with this particular type of
band.


Rob

"Rob H." wrote in message
...

http://55tools.blogspot.com/


1467 Same trade Rob, but not the same purpose!


Good point, I had meant that they were all used for making one particular
device.


Top is a wheel cutting engine

Middle looks like an uprighting tool

Bottom is a watchmakers lathe, fitted with a "mandrel" face plate. The
Lathe looks English, probably a Lorch.

All are watcmakers/clockmakers tools.


According to the museum in which I found these, they were not used to make
clocks or watches. Although the craftsman who used them was also a
clockmaker, the devices on my site were described as being used in a
different trade. So perhaps these are clockmaker's tools that were used
in another trade, or maybe he modified some of his clockmaker's tools for
making other devices.

Rob

The uprighting tool was used to centre punch the location of pivot holes,
mainly in marine chronometers. They are horological tools, but have other
uses, mainly in instrument making. My Boley Standard watchmakers lathe is
much newer, but has many hobby uses, and I still make the odd watch part
with it!

Steve R. ----For many years a repairer of antique watches and clocks.

"Rob H." wrote in message
...

Geez, that looks an awful lot like one of those things that
waitresses clip their orders to which the cook then spins around to see
each one in turn............ Ticket rail?


It does slightly resemble a ticket holder, but it's twice as big, has
handles, and doesn't have clips as seen he

http://search.instawares.com/supplies/Ticket%20Holder


The rest of the answers for this week have been posted:

http://answers260t.blogspot.com/


Rob

Looking at the lathe again, it looks like a clockmakers throw, which could
be used to make small guns.

Steve R.

On Nov 29, 8:29*pm, "Rob H." wrote:
In the American patents I found, the guide ring is called a ring gear. A
worm gear on the robot engages cogs on the ring. *I don't know if the
Australian guide ring has cogs on the underside.

The Australian ring is about an inch from the pipe. *This would allow
space for rollers by which the robot would grip the ring. *On the welding
side, the robot has a skirt extending almost to the pipe.

The mystery ring has hooked rods. *Wouldn't they preclude use with the
Australian robot and other robots? *Anyway, why would a guide ring have
those rods or those "handles"?

I agree that rods look like they could get in the way of the automated
welder, the ring in the video did have a handle, although it was rotated 90
degrees and wasn't sticking out as far as the one in my photo. *I was
thinking this ring could be for a different model than the one seen in the
video, or maybe it wasn't used with the automated welders at all, but was
still used as a pipeline welding clamp.

I'm hoping the person who first suggested that this was a welding ring can
answer your question about the rods.

A guide ring would be used with perhaps three robots and a control
station. *Wouldn't all those items travel on the same vehicle?
The truck has reels for gas lines, but the welding cables are hanging.
Wouldn't a company that invested in automatic welding also invest in cable
reels? *They would save labor and cables and keep the workplace less
cluttered.

Hard to say, he could have been transporting the ring without the need for
the other equipment, or someone else could have had other equipment on their
truck.

Since I haven't yet seen another ring just like it, I changed my answer page
to say that it's possibly used in welding, and also possibly used for
beading tires. *I'll be out for most of the day but plan to do a little more
research when I get back.

Rob

I'm researching to see if the extended rods are for supporting a track
system, as some models apparently use one. Also, in the absence of any
visual evidence for a tire beader that resembles this, I don't know
why that is still a viable solution. This is a welding truck, the ring
very closely resembles a welding ring....it seems that the challenge
now is only to find a similar one to explain some details.

--riverman

On Sat, 29 Nov 2008 02:54:27 -0500, E Z Peaces cast forth these pearls of
wisdom...:




The circumference of a tire doesn't seem to compress. I think that's
why it takes so much tension to seat a bead by pulling a rope around the
tread. Friction is a problem between a tire and a strap that stretches
under tension. It might not be an issue between a tire and metal band
that wasn't under tension and didn't stretch.

Of course the circumfrance of a tire compresses. Don't over complicate
this - simply let some air out of a tire and watch the circumfrance
compress.


If the band can flex, pressure under a strap at the center would not
mean pressure at the edges where the screws are. The hooked rods would
transfer pressure across the tread to the shoulders. I suppose each
hooked rod could be pulled separately by a chain and a pry bar at the
hub hole of the rim.

No need for all of this elboration to simply seat a bead.


A neighbor who has driven trucks for 30 years pulled in tonight. I
described the mystery ring and asked if it might be to seat the bead of
a truck tire. He said bands like that are used, and it's much safer
than squirting ether into the casing, igniting it from a few yards away,
and watching the tire fly into the air.

Are you talking about big trucks? If so, they don't seat like a car tire.
They use split rims. An entirely different manner of seating a tire.



--

-Mike-

On Nov 29, 10:45*pm, Nahmie wrote:

Wild guess here - Could it have anything to do with pipeline work? I
see a lot of trucks like this in the East Texas area, several right
here in the RV park we stay in, and these guys are doing gas/oil
pipeliune construction. Still don't know what that big ring is for,
but just thought I might throw in an alternative employment for the
vehicle.-

Show this picture to one of the guys with a truck like this, and ask
him what the ring is for!

--riverman

I'm researching to see if the extended rods are for supporting a track
system, as some models apparently use one. Also, in the absence of any
visual evidence for a tire beader that resembles this, I don't know
why that is still a viable solution. This is a welding truck, the ring
very closely resembles a welding ring....it seems that the challenge
now is only to find a similar one to explain some details.

--riverman


I hadn't yet found the beveling band and since some devices that are for
different purposes look alike, I was open to the possibility of it being a
tire beader. But now I'm 100% sure that it's a beveling band. I shot the
photo while on the road in Illinois, I looked out my hotel window and saw
the unusual ring and took a few shots of it. I hadn't seen one before but
figured someone here would recognize it.


Rob

Mike Marlow wrote:


Are you talking about big trucks? If so, they don't seat like a car
tire. They use split rims. An entirely different manner of seating a
tire.

Take a good look next time you see a parked semi-truck . Namy are using
tubeless tires and solid rims now , just like their smaller cousins . I
believe radial tires are what makes this possible , because of the more
flexible sidewalls .
--
Snag
sometimes ya gotta
shovel manure
to pay the bills

On Sun, 30 Nov 2008 06:56:14 -0600, Terry Coombs cast forth these pearls of
wisdom...:

Mike Marlow wrote:


Are you talking about big trucks? If so, they don't seat like a car
tire. They use split rims. An entirely different manner of seating a
tire.

Take a good look next time you see a parked semi-truck . Namy are using
tubeless tires and solid rims now , just like their smaller cousins . I
believe radial tires are what makes this possible , because of the more
flexible sidewalls .

Sunofagun. Just when ya think ya knows something, someone comes along and
tells ya that ya don't. I hate it when that happens. I really was not
aware that the big trucks got away from split rims.

--

-Mike-

Mike Marlow wrote:
On Sun, 30 Nov 2008 06:56:14 -0600, Terry Coombs cast forth these
pearls of wisdom...:

Mike Marlow wrote:


Are you talking about big trucks? If so, they don't seat like a car
tire. They use split rims. An entirely different manner of seating
a tire.

Take a good look next time you see a parked semi-truck . Namy are
using tubeless tires and solid rims now , just like their smaller
cousins . I believe radial tires are what makes this possible ,
because of the more flexible sidewalls .

Sunofagun. Just when ya think ya knows something, someone comes
along and tells ya that ya don't. I hate it when that happens. I
really was not aware that the big trucks got away from split rims.

Another aspect of that is the weight issue . Stamped steel rims are
lighter , leaving more of the gross weight limitations for cargo . And the
more ya can haul , the more money ya can make .
--
Snag
sometimes ya gotta
shovel manure
to pay the bills

"Mike Marlow" wrote in message
Take a good look next time you see a parked semi-truck . Namy are using
tubeless tires and solid rims now , just like their smaller cousins . I
believe radial tires are what makes this possible , because of the more
flexible sidewalls .

Sunofagun. Just when ya think ya knows something, someone comes along and
tells ya that ya don't. I hate it when that happens. I really was not
aware that the big trucks got away from split rims.


Some trailers no longer have a dual wheel/tire but one big wide-ass tire
instead.

Mike Marlow wrote:
On Sat, 29 Nov 2008 02:54:27 -0500, E Z Peaces cast forth these pearls of
wisdom...:



The circumference of a tire doesn't seem to compress. I think that's
why it takes so much tension to seat a bead by pulling a rope around the
tread. Friction is a problem between a tire and a strap that stretches
under tension. It might not be an issue between a tire and metal band
that wasn't under tension and didn't stretch.

Of course the circumfrance of a tire compresses. Don't over complicate
this - simply let some air out of a tire and watch the circumfrance
compress.

At the center of the contact patch, the tread will be closer to the hub
than before, but the tread will be as long as before. At the ends of
the contact patch, the tread will be farther from the hub than before.

The subject has been discussed in rec.puzzles: will tire pressure affect
speedometer readings? I got a surveying tape, parked on a level stretch
of smooth pavement, and used masking tape and a plumb bob to mark the
pavement below the center of the rear hub and the sidewall at that spot.
Then I rolled exactly ten revolutions and measured exactly how far the
hub had gone. (It was about 60 feet.)

Then I let air out until the hub was 10% closer to the pavement. I
repeated the rolling experiment. One might say the radius had shrunk
10%, so the distance would be about 6 feet less. As closely as I could
measure, it was 1/16" less. For all I know, it was the same; it's hard
to mark and measure so accurately on asphalt pavement. (I've always
wanted to repeat the test on a really smooth surface.)

Not even the weight of a vehicle will compress the length of a tire's
tread enough for me to measure for sure on ordinary pavement.

If the band can flex, pressure under a strap at the center would not
mean pressure at the edges where the screws are. The hooked rods would
transfer pressure across the tread to the shoulders. I suppose each
hooked rod could be pulled separately by a chain and a pry bar at the
hub hole of the rim.

No need for all of this elboration to simply seat a bead.

It's simple when you can supply air fast enough to build pressure in
spite of leaks. There are lots of patented tools to reduce the gaps
enough to get a little pressure.


A neighbor who has driven trucks for 30 years pulled in tonight. I
described the mystery ring and asked if it might be to seat the bead of
a truck tire. He said bands like that are used, and it's much safer
than squirting ether into the casing, igniting it from a few yards away,
and watching the tire fly into the air.

Are you talking about big trucks? If so, they don't seat like a car tire.
They use split rims. An entirely different manner of seating a tire.

I was thinking of farm vehicles such as the two-ton truck in the photo.
It was a man who had driven big rigs more than 30 years who said
mechanics resorted to squeezing the circumference to seat beads on
big-truck tires. It didn't occur to me to ask about split rims.

Clearly, the band in the photo was made as a welding guide. I suppose
the similar tool the trucker had seen used to mount bias-ply tires had
once been a welding guide. In the photo, I don't know if the welding
guide was placed in the truck for welding, for tire mounting, or for
some other use.

On Nov 29, 10:17*pm, humunculus wrote:
On Nov 29, 10:45*pm, Nahmie wrote:

Wild guess here - Could it have anything to do with pipeline work? I
see a lot of trucks like this in the East Texas area, several right
here in the RV park we stay in, and these guys are doing gas/oil
pipeliune construction. Still don't know what that big ring is for,
but just thought I might throw in an alternative employment for the
vehicle.-

Show this picture to one of the guys with a truck like this, and ask
him what the ring is for!

--riverman

Senior moment . . . haven't seen any welders here this month. Had
about 6 of them last winter.
Norm

On Nov 30, 9:07*am, "Ed Pawlowski" wrote:
"Mike Marlow" wrote in message
* Take a good look next time you see a parked semi-truck . Namy are using
tubeless tires and solid rims now , just like their smaller cousins . I
believe radial tires are what makes this possible , because of the more
flexible sidewalls .

Sunofagun. *Just when ya think ya knows something, someone comes along and
tells ya that ya don't. *I hate it when that happens. *I really was not
aware that the big trucks got away from split rims.

Some trailers no longer have a dual wheel/tire but one big wide-ass tire
instead.

They got away from the split rims for safety purposes too. Many people
injured/killed when servicing the split rims, becdause the ring would
come loose under pressure. Most either used a safety cage when
inflating them or put the ring side down.

Those big tires are called "super singles", and are OK for some
things, but they're terrible in snow country or even in fresh rain
with a light load. Some outfits use them on the drive axles of the
tractors, and they'll spin loose real easy.
Norm

Rob H. wrote:
I'm researching to see if the extended rods are for supporting a track
system, as some models apparently use one. Also, in the absence of any
visual evidence for a tire beader that resembles this, I don't know
why that is still a viable solution. This is a welding truck, the ring
very closely resembles a welding ring....it seems that the challenge
now is only to find a similar one to explain some details.

--riverman


I hadn't yet found the beveling band and since some devices that are for
different purposes look alike, I was open to the possibility of it being
a tire beader. But now I'm 100% sure that it's a beveling band. I shot
the photo while on the road in Illinois, I looked out my hotel window
and saw the unusual ring and took a few shots of it. I hadn't seen one
before but figured someone here would recognize it.


Rob


I'm 100% sure it was made as a beveling band.

A sack obscures the band near the left foot of the ladder. The ring has
a hooked rod about a foot from there. Below the rod are the heads of
four studs. Above the rod, four studs appear to be absent even when I
blow up the photo. Am I mistaken? If they keep the band at a fixed
distance from the pipe, they must be necessary for accurate welding.

The photos I've seen show convoys of company trucks welding pipe. This
doesn't look like a company truck: no racks for cylinders of welding
gases and no reels for welding cable. Well, maybe poorly-equipped small
contractors also weld on pipe lines.

The cylinders are a mystery. Seeing only a grayscale picture, the
trucker identified the tank near the passenger door as refrigerant. He
said that's where service trucks carry it. Its color corroborates this.
Why would a pipeline welder carry refrigerant?

The truck has welding hose on a reel beside the spare tire, but I see no
cylinders marked for acetylene or industrial oxygen. Could he get
anyone to put anything but medical oxygen in a tank marked for medical
oxygen? Carrying highly compressed gas in loose cylinders looks very
dangerous.

How about this scenario? Somebody who normally services vehicles in the
field applied for a job on a pipeline. He passed his welding test and
got put on a waiting list. A foreman told him what they really needed
were independent contractors.

The foreman gave him an old guide ring. The applicant got a pair of
discarded oxygen tanks that were no longer fit for medical use. If you
saw the truck a week later, the tanks would be certified and painted and
in a rack where the refrigerant is now.

Mike Marlow wrote:
....
...was not aware that the big trucks got away from split rims.

About 20-30 years ago or so...

Still have one old ('58) truck w/ 'em -- it's an experience when it's
worked on these days as none of the tire shop working kids have ever
seen one, what more worked on one.

Also a pita as it's got 8.25x20 and hardly anything is that small any
more so have to pay full list to get something ordered for it.

--

On Dec 1, 3:58*am, E Z Peaces wrote:

How about this scenario? *Somebody who normally services vehicles in the
field applied for a job on a pipeline. *He passed his welding test and
got put on a waiting list. *A foreman told him what they really needed
were independent contractors.

The foreman gave him an old guide ring. *The applicant got a pair of
discarded oxygen tanks that were no longer fit for medical use. *If you
saw the truck a week later, the tanks would be certified and painted and
in a rack where the refrigerant is now.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

It could also be a 'catch all' vehicle, where odds and ends get
stashed. A broken beveling band, some empty cylinders, spare hoses, an
ammocan with (or without) welding rods, whatnot.

It does look like it's parked at a hotel during work hours....

--riverman

On Sun, 30 Nov 2008 13:20:51 -0500, E Z Peaces cast forth these pearls of
wisdom...:



At the center of the contact patch, the tread will be closer to the hub
than before, but the tread will be as long as before. At the ends of
the contact patch, the tread will be farther from the hub than before.

The subject has been discussed in rec.puzzles: will tire pressure affect
speedometer readings? I got a surveying tape, parked on a level stretch
of smooth pavement, and used masking tape and a plumb bob to mark the
pavement below the center of the rear hub and the sidewall at that spot.
Then I rolled exactly ten revolutions and measured exactly how far the
hub had gone. (It was about 60 feet.)

Then I let air out until the hub was 10% closer to the pavement. I
repeated the rolling experiment. One might say the radius had shrunk
10%, so the distance would be about 6 feet less. As closely as I could
measure, it was 1/16" less. For all I know, it was the same; it's hard
to mark and measure so accurately on asphalt pavement. (I've always
wanted to repeat the test on a really smooth surface.)


Ahhh - now I see what you were referring to. Sorry - I could not take that
out of your original statement. With this, I now agree with your earlier
statement.



--

-Mike-

On Sun, 30 Nov 2008 14:58:54 -0500, E Z Peaces
wrote:


The cylinders are a mystery. Seeing only a grayscale picture, the
trucker identified the tank near the passenger door as refrigerant. He
said that's where service trucks carry it. Its color corroborates this.
Why would a pipeline welder carry refrigerant?

The truck has welding hose on a reel beside the spare tire, but I see no
cylinders marked for acetylene or industrial oxygen. Could he get
anyone to put anything but medical oxygen in a tank marked for medical
oxygen? Carrying highly compressed gas in loose cylinders looks very
dangerous.

How have you concluded that the tanks do not contain welding gases? In
the US there's no standard color code for gas cylinders. The standup
tank behind the passenger door looks like a fuel gas cylinder (MAPP if
I had to guess), and there's no reason the green tanks lying down in
the bed can't be welding oxy.

When you hear hoofbeats, think horses, not zebras.

--
Ned Simmons

Ned Simmons wrote:
On Sun, 30 Nov 2008 14:58:54 -0500, E Z Peaces
wrote:

The cylinders are a mystery. Seeing only a grayscale picture, the
trucker identified the tank near the passenger door as refrigerant. He
said that's where service trucks carry it. Its color corroborates this.
Why would a pipeline welder carry refrigerant?

The truck has welding hose on a reel beside the spare tire, but I see no
cylinders marked for acetylene or industrial oxygen. Could he get
anyone to put anything but medical oxygen in a tank marked for medical
oxygen? Carrying highly compressed gas in loose cylinders looks very
dangerous.

How have you concluded that the tanks do not contain welding gases? In
the US there's no standard color code for gas cylinders. The standup
tank behind the passenger door looks like a fuel gas cylinder (MAPP if
I had to guess), and there's no reason the green tanks lying down in
the bed can't be welding oxy.

When you hear hoofbeats, think horses, not zebras.

MAPP isn't used for welding. It makes steel brittle.

OSHA 29 CFR 1926.350(a)
(4) "When cylinders are transported by powered vehicles, they shall be
secured in a vertical position".


DOT CFR 177.840 (1)
(1) Cylinders. To prevent their overturning, cylinders containing
Class 2 (gases) materials must be securely lashed in an upright
position; loaded into racks securely attached to the motor vehicle;
packed in boxes or crates of such dimensions as to prevent their
overturning; or loaded in a horizontal position. Specification DOT-4L
cylinders must be loaded in an upright position and securely braced.

On Mon, 01 Dec 2008 14:25:33 -0500, E Z Peaces
wrote:

Ned Simmons wrote:
On Sun, 30 Nov 2008 14:58:54 -0500, E Z Peaces
wrote:

The cylinders are a mystery. Seeing only a grayscale picture, the
trucker identified the tank near the passenger door as refrigerant. He
said that's where service trucks carry it. Its color corroborates this.
Why would a pipeline welder carry refrigerant?

The truck has welding hose on a reel beside the spare tire, but I see no
cylinders marked for acetylene or industrial oxygen. Could he get
anyone to put anything but medical oxygen in a tank marked for medical
oxygen? Carrying highly compressed gas in loose cylinders looks very
dangerous.

How have you concluded that the tanks do not contain welding gases? In
the US there's no standard color code for gas cylinders. The standup
tank behind the passenger door looks like a fuel gas cylinder (MAPP if
I had to guess), and there's no reason the green tanks lying down in
the bed can't be welding oxy.

When you hear hoofbeats, think horses, not zebras.

MAPP isn't used for welding. It makes steel brittle.

There's an arc welder on the truck. The fuel gas is for cutting and
heating, perhaps for bevelling pipe.


OSHA 29 CFR 1926.350(a)
(4) "When cylinders are transported by powered vehicles, they shall be
secured in a vertical position".


DOT CFR 177.840 (1)
(1) Cylinders. To prevent their overturning, cylinders containing
Class 2 (gases) materials must be securely lashed in an upright
position; loaded into racks securely attached to the motor vehicle;
packed in boxes or crates of such dimensions as to prevent their
overturning; or loaded in a horizontal position. Specification DOT-4L
cylinders must be loaded in an upright position and securely braced.

You've never seen OSHA or DOT regs ignored? Wouldn't those rules be
applicable to the gases you proposed?

--
Ned Simmons

Ned Simmons wrote:
On Mon, 01 Dec 2008 14:25:33 -0500, E Z Peaces
wrote:

Ned Simmons wrote:
On Sun, 30 Nov 2008 14:58:54 -0500, E Z Peaces
wrote:

The cylinders are a mystery. Seeing only a grayscale picture, the
trucker identified the tank near the passenger door as refrigerant. He
said that's where service trucks carry it. Its color corroborates this.
Why would a pipeline welder carry refrigerant?

The truck has welding hose on a reel beside the spare tire, but I see no
cylinders marked for acetylene or industrial oxygen. Could he get
anyone to put anything but medical oxygen in a tank marked for medical
oxygen? Carrying highly compressed gas in loose cylinders looks very
dangerous.
How have you concluded that the tanks do not contain welding gases? In
the US there's no standard color code for gas cylinders. The standup
tank behind the passenger door looks like a fuel gas cylinder (MAPP if
I had to guess), and there's no reason the green tanks lying down in
the bed can't be welding oxy.

When you hear hoofbeats, think horses, not zebras.

MAPP isn't used for welding. It makes steel brittle.

There's an arc welder on the truck. The fuel gas is for cutting and
heating, perhaps for bevelling pipe.

OSHA 29 CFR 1926.350(a)
(4) "When cylinders are transported by powered vehicles, they shall be
secured in a vertical position".


DOT CFR 177.840 (1)
(1) Cylinders. To prevent their overturning, cylinders containing
Class 2 (gases) materials must be securely lashed in an upright
position; loaded into racks securely attached to the motor vehicle;
packed in boxes or crates of such dimensions as to prevent their
overturning; or loaded in a horizontal position. Specification DOT-4L
cylinders must be loaded in an upright position and securely braced.

You've never seen OSHA or DOT regs ignored? Wouldn't those rules be
applicable to the gases you proposed?


I doubt the rules would apply to empty cylinders.

I don't know if there are welders who would consider it acceptably safe
to transport filled cylinders loose, but wouldn't it also be
inconvenient? When he wanted to weld, he would have to lift an oxygen
cylinder from the truck and find a place to secure it upright.

E Z Peaces wrote:
Ned Simmons wrote:
On Mon, 01 Dec 2008 14:25:33 -0500, E Z Peaces

wrote:

Ned Simmons wrote:
On Sun, 30 Nov 2008 14:58:54 -0500, E Z Peaces
wrote:

The cylinders are a mystery. Seeing only a grayscale picture,
the
trucker identified the tank near the passenger door as
refrigerant. He said that's where service trucks carry it. Its
color corroborates this. Why would a pipeline welder carry
refrigerant?

The truck has welding hose on a reel beside the spare tire, but
I
see no cylinders marked for acetylene or industrial oxygen.
Could he get anyone to put anything but medical oxygen in a tank
marked for medical oxygen? Carrying highly compressed gas in
loose cylinders looks very dangerous.
How have you concluded that the tanks do not contain welding
gases? In the US there's no standard color code for gas
cylinders.
The standup tank behind the passenger door looks like a fuel gas
cylinder (MAPP if I had to guess), and there's no reason the
green
tanks lying down in the bed can't be welding oxy.

When you hear hoofbeats, think horses, not zebras.

MAPP isn't used for welding. It makes steel brittle.

There's an arc welder on the truck. The fuel gas is for cutting and
heating, perhaps for bevelling pipe.

OSHA 29 CFR 1926.350(a)
(4) "When cylinders are transported by powered vehicles, they
shall
be secured in a vertical position".


DOT CFR 177.840 (1)
(1) Cylinders. To prevent their overturning, cylinders containing
Class 2 (gases) materials must be securely lashed in an upright
position; loaded into racks securely attached to the motor
vehicle;
packed in boxes or crates of such dimensions as to prevent their
overturning; or loaded in a horizontal position. Specification
DOT-4L cylinders must be loaded in an upright position and
securely
braced.

You've never seen OSHA or DOT regs ignored? Wouldn't those rules be
applicable to the gases you proposed?


I doubt the rules would apply to empty cylinders.

I don't know if there are welders who would consider it acceptably
safe to transport filled cylinders loose, but wouldn't it also be
inconvenient? When he wanted to weld, he would have to lift an
oxygen
cylinder from the truck and find a place to secure it upright.

Why would he have to secure an oxygen cylinder upright in order to
weld? Oxygen doesn't care what the orientation of the cylinder is.

--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

On Dec 2, 4:28*am, E Z Peaces wrote:
Ned Simmons wrote:
On Mon, 01 Dec 2008 14:25:33 -0500, E Z Peaces
wrote:

Ned Simmons wrote:
On Sun, 30 Nov 2008 14:58:54 -0500, E Z Peaces
wrote:

The cylinders are a mystery. *Seeing only a grayscale picture, the
trucker identified the tank near the passenger door as refrigerant. *He
said that's where service trucks carry it. *Its color corroborates this.
*Why would a pipeline welder carry refrigerant?

The truck has welding hose on a reel beside the spare tire, but I see no
*cylinders marked for acetylene or industrial oxygen. *Could he get
anyone to put anything but medical oxygen in a tank marked for medical
oxygen? *Carrying highly compressed gas in loose cylinders looks very
dangerous.
How have you concluded that the tanks do not contain welding gases? In
the US there's no standard color code for gas cylinders. The standup
tank behind the passenger door looks like a fuel gas cylinder (MAPP if
I had to guess), and there's no reason the green tanks lying down in
the bed can't be welding oxy.

When you hear hoofbeats, think horses, not zebras.

MAPP isn't used for welding. *It makes steel brittle.

There's an arc welder on the truck. The fuel gas is for cutting and
heating, perhaps for bevelling pipe.

OSHA 29 CFR 1926.350(a)
(4) "When cylinders are transported by powered vehicles, they shall be
secured in a vertical position".

DOT CFR 177.840 (1)
(1) Cylinders. To prevent their overturning, cylinders containing
Class 2 (gases) materials must be securely lashed in an upright
position; loaded into racks securely attached to the motor vehicle;
packed in boxes or crates of such dimensions as to prevent their
overturning; or loaded in a horizontal position. Specification DOT-4L
cylinders must be loaded in an upright position and securely braced.

You've never seen OSHA or DOT regs ignored? Wouldn't those rules be
applicable to the gases you proposed?

I doubt the rules would apply to empty cylinders.

I don't know if there are welders who would consider it acceptably safe
to transport filled cylinders loose, but wouldn't it also be
inconvenient? *When he wanted to weld, he would have to lift an oxygen
cylinder from the truck and find a place to secure it upright.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The tanks aren't loose. If you look closely at the picture Rob sent
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v8...DSC00015-1.jpg
you can see that they are stored in a rack that carries three tanks
with a system of three rings. The empty third ring is between the legs
of the ladder, and you can see the other ring (for the bottom of the
missing tank) securing the top of the ladder. It almost looks like a
wheeled cart, with a wheel showing just beside the big ring that
started this whole thread.

Moreso, on top of the spool of hose behind the driver's seat (the one
with the white arrow), there is a welded metal thingy that looks like
its the same material and patina of the gas cannister rack, which
could be the handle of the rack. If the rack is broken, it gives more
credibility that this is a 'catch all' truck where someone stashed
their oxygen and acetylene tanks. Otherwise, it looks like someone
secured their AX tank behind the passenger seat, took off the cart
handle and stashed their cart and OX tanks on the floor of the bed,
tossed in the handle, plumbing and ring, and headed off into the
sunset.

--riverman

humunculus wrote:
On Dec 2, 4:28 am, E Z Peaces wrote:
Ned Simmons wrote:
On Mon, 01 Dec 2008 14:25:33 -0500, E Z Peaces
wrote:
Ned Simmons wrote:
On Sun, 30 Nov 2008 14:58:54 -0500, E Z Peaces
wrote:
The cylinders are a mystery. Seeing only a grayscale picture, the
trucker identified the tank near the passenger door as refrigerant. He
said that's where service trucks carry it. Its color corroborates this.
Why would a pipeline welder carry refrigerant?
The truck has welding hose on a reel beside the spare tire, but I see no
cylinders marked for acetylene or industrial oxygen. Could he get
anyone to put anything but medical oxygen in a tank marked for medical
oxygen? Carrying highly compressed gas in loose cylinders looks very
dangerous.
How have you concluded that the tanks do not contain welding gases? In
the US there's no standard color code for gas cylinders. The standup
tank behind the passenger door looks like a fuel gas cylinder (MAPP if
I had to guess), and there's no reason the green tanks lying down in
the bed can't be welding oxy.
When you hear hoofbeats, think horses, not zebras.
MAPP isn't used for welding. It makes steel brittle.
There's an arc welder on the truck. The fuel gas is for cutting and
heating, perhaps for bevelling pipe.
OSHA 29 CFR 1926.350(a)
(4) "When cylinders are transported by powered vehicles, they shall be
secured in a vertical position".
DOT CFR 177.840 (1)
(1) Cylinders. To prevent their overturning, cylinders containing
Class 2 (gases) materials must be securely lashed in an upright
position; loaded into racks securely attached to the motor vehicle;
packed in boxes or crates of such dimensions as to prevent their
overturning; or loaded in a horizontal position. Specification DOT-4L
cylinders must be loaded in an upright position and securely braced.
You've never seen OSHA or DOT regs ignored? Wouldn't those rules be
applicable to the gases you proposed?
I doubt the rules would apply to empty cylinders.

I don't know if there are welders who would consider it acceptably safe
to transport filled cylinders loose, but wouldn't it also be
inconvenient? When he wanted to weld, he would have to lift an oxygen
cylinder from the truck and find a place to secure it upright.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The tanks aren't loose. If you look closely at the picture Rob sent
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v8...DSC00015-1.jpg
you can see that they are stored in a rack that carries three tanks
with a system of three rings. The empty third ring is between the legs
of the ladder, and you can see the other ring (for the bottom of the
missing tank) securing the top of the ladder. It almost looks like a
wheeled cart, with a wheel showing just beside the big ring that
started this whole thread.

Moreso, on top of the spool of hose behind the driver's seat (the one
with the white arrow), there is a welded metal thingy that looks like
its the same material and patina of the gas cannister rack, which
could be the handle of the rack. If the rack is broken, it gives more
credibility that this is a 'catch all' truck where someone stashed
their oxygen and acetylene tanks. Otherwise, it looks like someone
secured their AX tank behind the passenger seat, took off the cart
handle and stashed their cart and OX tanks on the floor of the bed,
tossed in the handle, plumbing and ring, and headed off into the
sunset.

--riverman

Does AX mean acetylene? Why stash it behind the passenger seat?
Wouldn't it be heavy to get in there? In a closed space, couldn't a
leak cause an explosion?

Your observations seem consistent with a catch-all from pipeline welding
or a catch-all for somebody getting set up to weld on a pipeline. I
wonder how likely it is that a pipeline crew would happen to be using a
pair of oxygen tanks painted for medical oxygen.

Does it appear to you that one tank has no valve cover? Well, I'm sure
being in a rack is safer than being loose.

The tank behind the passenger door was apparently manufactured for
refrigerant. If it were being used for fuel, wouldn't there be an
oxygen tank beside it? If it's refrigerant, that sounds like the owner
is a repairman collecting equipment to work on a pipeline.

J. Clarke wrote:
E Z Peaces wrote:
Ned Simmons wrote:
On Mon, 01 Dec 2008 14:25:33 -0500, E Z Peaces

wrote:

Ned Simmons wrote:
On Sun, 30 Nov 2008 14:58:54 -0500, E Z Peaces
wrote:

The cylinders are a mystery. Seeing only a grayscale picture,
the
trucker identified the tank near the passenger door as
refrigerant. He said that's where service trucks carry it. Its
color corroborates this. Why would a pipeline welder carry
refrigerant?

The truck has welding hose on a reel beside the spare tire, but
I
see no cylinders marked for acetylene or industrial oxygen.
Could he get anyone to put anything but medical oxygen in a tank
marked for medical oxygen? Carrying highly compressed gas in
loose cylinders looks very dangerous.
How have you concluded that the tanks do not contain welding
gases? In the US there's no standard color code for gas
cylinders.
The standup tank behind the passenger door looks like a fuel gas
cylinder (MAPP if I had to guess), and there's no reason the
green
tanks lying down in the bed can't be welding oxy.

When you hear hoofbeats, think horses, not zebras.

MAPP isn't used for welding. It makes steel brittle.
There's an arc welder on the truck. The fuel gas is for cutting and
heating, perhaps for bevelling pipe.

OSHA 29 CFR 1926.350(a)
(4) "When cylinders are transported by powered vehicles, they
shall
be secured in a vertical position".


DOT CFR 177.840 (1)
(1) Cylinders. To prevent their overturning, cylinders containing
Class 2 (gases) materials must be securely lashed in an upright
position; loaded into racks securely attached to the motor
vehicle;
packed in boxes or crates of such dimensions as to prevent their
overturning; or loaded in a horizontal position. Specification
DOT-4L cylinders must be loaded in an upright position and
securely
braced.
You've never seen OSHA or DOT regs ignored? Wouldn't those rules be
applicable to the gases you proposed?

I doubt the rules would apply to empty cylinders.

I don't know if there are welders who would consider it acceptably
safe to transport filled cylinders loose, but wouldn't it also be
inconvenient? When he wanted to weld, he would have to lift an
oxygen
cylinder from the truck and find a place to secure it upright.

Why would he have to secure an oxygen cylinder upright in order to
weld? Oxygen doesn't care what the orientation of the cylinder is.


It seems dangerous and inconvenient. It looks like an inconvenient
place to try to connect a regulator and oxygen line. It's 2200 psi, and
if something gets blown off, you're standing in the way. If you get it
hooked up, you have to go one place to control the oxygen and another to
control the fuel. I guess that's why OSHA says gas cylinders must be
secured upright except when being hoisted or manually moved.

E Z Peaces wrote:

The tanks aren't loose. If you look closely at the picture Rob sent
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v8...DSC00015-1.jpg
you can see that they are stored in a rack that carries three tanks
with a system of three rings. The empty third ring is between the legs
of the ladder, and you can see the other ring (for the bottom of the
missing tank) securing the top of the ladder. It almost looks like a
wheeled cart, with a wheel showing just beside the big ring that
started this whole thread.

Moreso, on top of the spool of hose behind the driver's seat (the one
with the white arrow), there is a welded metal thingy that looks like
its the same material and patina of the gas cannister rack, which
could be the handle of the rack. If the rack is broken, it gives more
credibility that this is a 'catch all' truck where someone stashed
their oxygen and acetylene tanks. Otherwise, it looks like someone
secured their AX tank behind the passenger seat, took off the cart
handle and stashed their cart and OX tanks on the floor of the bed,
tossed in the handle, plumbing and ring, and headed off into the
sunset.

--riverman

Does AX mean acetylene? Why stash it behind the passenger seat?
Wouldn't it be heavy to get in there? In a closed space, couldn't a
leak cause an explosion?

Have you looked at the photo? The tank in question is outside the
truck, strapped upright to the truck body, just like you are supposed to
carry acetylene. It is behind the passenger only in the same way the
right rear turn signal is behind the passenger.



Your observations seem consistent with a catch-all from pipeline welding
or a catch-all for somebody getting set up to weld on a pipeline. I
wonder how likely it is that a pipeline crew would happen to be using a
pair of oxygen tanks painted for medical oxygen.

Those tanks look just like the tanks we used to get for welding oxygen,
where do you get medical ox from?


Does it appear to you that one tank has no valve cover? Well, I'm sure
being in a rack is safer than being loose.

Zoom in, they both have covers.


The tank behind the passenger door was apparently manufactured for
refrigerant.

No, it is an acetylene tank. Zoom in on the label, it is clearly
flammable gas.

If it were being used for fuel, wouldn't there be an
oxygen tank beside it?

those are in the truck bed.

I think the tank people thought was refrigerant was the propane tank in
the bed in the drivers side, clearly says propane if you zoom in.

Stuart Wheaton wrote:
E Z Peaces wrote:

The tanks aren't loose. If you look closely at the picture Rob sent
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v8...DSC00015-1.jpg
you can see that they are stored in a rack that carries three tanks
with a system of three rings. The empty third ring is between the legs
of the ladder, and you can see the other ring (for the bottom of the
missing tank) securing the top of the ladder. It almost looks like a
wheeled cart, with a wheel showing just beside the big ring that
started this whole thread.

Moreso, on top of the spool of hose behind the driver's seat (the one
with the white arrow), there is a welded metal thingy that looks like
its the same material and patina of the gas cannister rack, which
could be the handle of the rack. If the rack is broken, it gives more
credibility that this is a 'catch all' truck where someone stashed
their oxygen and acetylene tanks. Otherwise, it looks like someone
secured their AX tank behind the passenger seat, took off the cart
handle and stashed their cart and OX tanks on the floor of the bed,
tossed in the handle, plumbing and ring, and headed off into the
sunset.

--riverman

Does AX mean acetylene? Why stash it behind the passenger seat?
Wouldn't it be heavy to get in there? In a closed space, couldn't a
leak cause an explosion?

Have you looked at the photo? The tank in question is outside the
truck, strapped upright to the truck body, just like you are supposed to
carry acetylene. It is behind the passenger only in the same way the
right rear turn signal is behind the passenger.



Your observations seem consistent with a catch-all from pipeline
welding or a catch-all for somebody getting set up to weld on a
pipeline. I wonder how likely it is that a pipeline crew would happen
to be using a pair of oxygen tanks painted for medical oxygen.

Those tanks look just like the tanks we used to get for welding oxygen,
where do you get medical ox from?

Do your tanks have white bands?


Does it appear to you that one tank has no valve cover? Well, I'm
sure being in a rack is safer than being loose.

Zoom in, they both have covers.

I zoomed in. The one on the right has something green that doesn't look
like a cover.


The tank behind the passenger door was apparently manufactured for
refrigerant.

No, it is an acetylene tank. Zoom in on the label, it is clearly
flammable gas.

Class 2 and 3 refrigerants are flammable gases.


If it were being used for fuel, wouldn't there be an
oxygen tank beside it?

those are in the truck bed.

If the orange tank were acetylene, having a place to lash it would show
that the truck was outfitted for gas welding. In that case, why isn't
it outfitted with a place to lash oxygen tanks as OSHA requires? It's
more convenient as well as safer. Oxygen tanks contain a lot more
pressure than acetylene tanks.

E Z Peaces wrote:
Stuart Wheaton wrote:


If it were being used for fuel, wouldn't there be an
oxygen tank beside it?

those are in the truck bed.

If the orange tank were acetylene, having a place to lash it would show
that the truck was outfitted for gas welding. In that case, why isn't
it outfitted with a place to lash oxygen tanks as OSHA requires? It's
more convenient as well as safer. Oxygen tanks contain a lot more
pressure than acetylene tanks.

Looking again, there is probably space between the water barrel and the
acetylene tank for an oxy tank. Otherwise, I'd guess that the rig is
portable and he stores the acetylene vertical so he doesn't need to wait
an hour for the liquid to settle before use. I'd also guess he can
carry empty oxy tanks any way he wants to.

Stuart

On Dec 3, 1:22*am, E Z Peaces wrote:
humunculus wrote:
On Dec 2, 4:28 am, E Z Peaces wrote:
Ned Simmons wrote:
On Mon, 01 Dec 2008 14:25:33 -0500, E Z Peaces
wrote:
Ned Simmons wrote:
On Sun, 30 Nov 2008 14:58:54 -0500, E Z Peaces
wrote:
The cylinders are a mystery. *Seeing only a grayscale picture, the
trucker identified the tank near the passenger door as refrigerant.. *He
said that's where service trucks carry it. *Its color corroborates this.
*Why would a pipeline welder carry refrigerant?
The truck has welding hose on a reel beside the spare tire, but I see no
*cylinders marked for acetylene or industrial oxygen. *Could he get
anyone to put anything but medical oxygen in a tank marked for medical
oxygen? *Carrying highly compressed gas in loose cylinders looks very
dangerous.
How have you concluded that the tanks do not contain welding gases? In
the US there's no standard color code for gas cylinders. The standup
tank behind the passenger door looks like a fuel gas cylinder (MAPP if
I had to guess), and there's no reason the green tanks lying down in
the bed can't be welding oxy.
When you hear hoofbeats, think horses, not zebras.
MAPP isn't used for welding. *It makes steel brittle.
There's an arc welder on the truck. The fuel gas is for cutting and
heating, perhaps for bevelling pipe.
OSHA 29 CFR 1926.350(a)
(4) "When cylinders are transported by powered vehicles, they shall be
secured in a vertical position".
DOT CFR 177.840 (1)
(1) Cylinders. To prevent their overturning, cylinders containing
Class 2 (gases) materials must be securely lashed in an upright
position; loaded into racks securely attached to the motor vehicle;
packed in boxes or crates of such dimensions as to prevent their
overturning; or loaded in a horizontal position. Specification DOT-4L
cylinders must be loaded in an upright position and securely braced.
You've never seen OSHA or DOT regs ignored? Wouldn't those rules be
applicable to the gases you proposed?
I doubt the rules would apply to empty cylinders.

I don't know if there are welders who would consider it acceptably safe
to transport filled cylinders loose, but wouldn't it also be
inconvenient? *When he wanted to weld, he would have to lift an oxygen
cylinder from the truck and find a place to secure it upright.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The tanks aren't loose. If you look closely at the picture Rob sent
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v8...DSC00015-1.jpg
you can see that they are stored in a rack that carries three tanks
with a system of three rings. The empty third ring is between the legs
of the ladder, and you can see the other ring (for the bottom of the
missing tank) securing the top of the ladder. It almost looks like a
wheeled cart, with a wheel showing just beside the big ring that
started this whole thread.

Moreso, on top of the spool of hose behind the driver's seat (the one
with the white arrow), there is a welded metal thingy that looks like
its the same material and patina of the gas cannister rack, which
could be the handle of the rack. If the rack is broken, it gives more
credibility that this is a 'catch all' truck where someone stashed
their oxygen and acetylene tanks. Otherwise, it looks like someone
secured their AX tank behind the passenger seat, took off the cart
handle and *stashed their cart and OX tanks on the floor of the bed,
tossed in the handle, plumbing and ring, and headed off into the
sunset.

--riverman

Does AX mean acetylene? *Why stash it behind the passenger seat?
Wouldn't it be heavy to get in there? *In a closed space, couldn't a
leak cause an explosion?

Your observations seem consistent with a catch-all from pipeline welding
or a catch-all for somebody getting set up to weld on a pipeline. *I
wonder how likely it is that a pipeline crew would happen to be using a
pair of oxygen tanks painted for medical oxygen.

Does it appear to you that one tank has no valve cover? *Well, I'm sure
being in a rack is safer than being loose.

The tank behind the passenger door was apparently manufactured for
refrigerant. *If it were being used for fuel, wouldn't there be an
oxygen tank beside it? *If it's refrigerant, that sounds like the owner
is a repairman collecting equipment to work on a pipeline.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The 'tank behind the passenger seat' I referred to IS the orange tank
strapped beside the drink cooler. Maybe I should have said 'behind the
passenger door' instead.

It doesn't seem so mysterious to me. The tank rack has three spots in
it, with three tanks in the truck. If it is true that oxygen does not
have to be stored vertically (either for physical reasons or for DOT
requirements, not OSHA), then it makes sense to stick the acetylene in
the carrier away from the driver, in the required vertical position,
and to lay the other two tanks in the bed of the truck, securely in
their rack. If the other thing is the handle, that makes sense
also...remove the handle so the rack lays flat. I can't believe the
rack is broken....what moron would carry around a broken metal rack
that needed welding to repair....if it was on a welding cart?

As for the color coding....there is no standard coding, although green
is common for oxygen, and red (or orange?) is common for acetylene. If
the orange tank is standing on a running board, then it is taller than
the green tanks, and it has a wear band around it at what looks like
the right height for the strap in the cylinder rack.

It all seems to fit....its a welding truck, with a step ladder,
welding gas rack, hoses, power supply, band and tools. Also a propane
tank, and probably a propane tip somewhere in the tool box. This guy
is set up to weld or solder all sorts of things. He might spend most
of his time using the TIG/MIG setup, so the acetylene is not often
taken down and racked. Thats why its on the bottom, and why its not so
inconvenient to have them separated.

--riverman

humunculus wrote:


It doesn't seem so mysterious to me. The tank rack has three spots in
it, with three tanks in the truck. If it is true that oxygen does not
have to be stored vertically (either for physical reasons or for DOT
requirements, not OSHA), then it makes sense to stick the acetylene in
the carrier away from the driver, in the required vertical position,
and to lay the other two tanks in the bed of the truck, securely in
their rack. If the other thing is the handle, that makes sense
also...remove the handle so the rack lays flat. I can't believe the
rack is broken....what moron would carry around a broken metal rack
that needed welding to repair....if it was on a welding cart?

I find it confusing the DOT would go on and on about securing cylinders
upright, then say they may be laid down. It seems to me that there must
be more to it, that cylinders must be secured and that there must be
special precautions to protect valves. It seems to me that when a
cylinder is lying down, the valve is more vulnerable to damage by
ramming or having something dropped on it. If it broke, the valve and
tank could shoot horizontally.

Under OSHA regulations, cylinders would have to be secured upright when
the truck was loaded. In that case, DOT regulations would have only to
cover the possibility that something came loose after the truck was
loaded. Maybe DOT allows laying a cylinder down because if a driver
discovered that an upright cylinder was no longer secure, laying it down
could be safer than tying it up with baling twine, for example.

As for the color coding....there is no standard coding, although green
is common for oxygen, and red (or orange?) is common for acetylene. If
the orange tank is standing on a running board, then it is taller than
the green tanks, and it has a wear band around it at what looks like
the right height for the strap in the cylinder rack.

I got my chart from the DOD. It didn't mention alternative colors. I
was surprised to learn in this thread that it is not governed by law.
To me, that's like saying traffic lights can be any colors a
manufacturer chooses.

It all seems to fit....its a welding truck, with a step ladder,
welding gas rack, hoses, power supply, band and tools. Also a propane
tank, and probably a propane tip somewhere in the tool box. This guy
is set up to weld or solder all sorts of things. He might spend most
of his time using the TIG/MIG setup, so the acetylene is not often
taken down and racked. Thats why its on the bottom, and why its not so
inconvenient to have them separated.


I can't tell how big the oxygen tanks are, but they and the rack could
weigh more than 300 pounds. Apparently the rack, which may be broken,
was pushed, not pulled, aboard. Did somebody push the rack up a ramp
onto the truck after welding in the field? It's easier to imagine it
was pushed aboard at a loading dock and not intended to be unloaded for
welding in the field. (What is that wood "tailgate"? There's a similar
item on the right.)

I'm not familiar with trucks designed for welders, but it seems to me
that it would be safer and more convenient to weld with the cylinders
secured to the vehicle, like the arc welder. Could that be why the
truck has long hoses?

On Tue, 02 Dec 2008 21:25:09 -0500, Stuart Wheaton
wrote:

snip
Looking again, there is probably space between the water barrel and the
acetylene tank for an oxy tank. Otherwise, I'd guess that the rig is
portable and he stores the acetylene vertical so he doesn't need to wait
an hour for the liquid to settle before use. I'd also guess he can
carry empty oxy tanks any way he wants to.

It is a good possibility that the orange tank standing up
holds propane. It is a lot cheaper to use with oxygen for
cutting only. The little 20 lb propane tank maybe for when
the big tank runs out and you need to do a bit more.

They probably use gas for cutting only and there wouldn't be
any need for acetylene.

Something more to ponder...

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
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