Hello to the group,
Been searching the archives reading everything we can find on shop
layout and setup but thought I would throw out a quick request for
input as well.

We have had a rented space for our homebuilding business for some
time, storage, shop, short-medium millwork runs, pre-fab'ing built-
ins, and so on. All the major tools. Well, even though we are heading
into winter, and the current economic climate is less than favorable,
an opportunity has presented itself that is too hard to pass up. We
are moving on a piece of commercial property with a 35 x 80 building
on it. Will finalize in the next week or two. Wide open inside, heat,
gas, city and well water, rest rooms, and a perfect office/gallery
space on one end. There is a separate bay with overhead door on the
other end that could double as a nice spray booth. 10' ceilings,
concrete floor.

I have been reeling with layout, dust collection, sheet goods storage,
product lines, and the like. Just though I would throw out this broad
rambling in an attempt to tap into the collective expertise of the
group.

While on the short term (2-5 years) we will be aiming to keep the
place afloat with ww'ing sales combined with a hopeful ramping down of
the homebuilding, our long term goal may be to add a second floor to
half of the building and move it into some sort of a craft center.
Multiple crafts, clinics, workshops, and classes. This would be in
addition to our own work. Perhaps wood, ceramics (pottery), stained
glass, beading, metal working, etc.. All on a smallish scale of course
due to the building size but all areas we have experience in and yet
could access crafts people to perform classes/workshops. There is
nothing like this for a forty mile radius in our area so we are
thinking it may be a good thing for us and the community.

Starting with a clean slate, like anyone, I am hoping to make the most
of a not-so-big space with a scant eye on future public use. I am in
hopes to move forward in a fashion that will prepare us for the
opportunity to include the public.

In the short term we aim to install a woodstove to offset the gas heat
in winter. Issues of sawdust and fumes are understood and this may be
a non-option when the public comes on-line. Dust collection will be a
biggie. I am not sure if a commercially available dust collector or
building a chip house and extracting to it (already have big 3hp
blower from other shop) would be better. Either will require drops
from the ceiling. I am wondering about the best way to do this for
center stations like table saws, etc.

Benches, sheet goods, lumber storage are very high on the list of
needs.

Post is already too long, but look forward to any input you all may
have,
Thanks, Mark

"BDBConstruction" wrote

Hello to the group,
Been searching the archives reading everything we can find on shop
layout and setup but thought I would throw out a quick request for
input as well.

snip long post

I guess I still don't really know what you want to do. It would help a lot
of you were define more clearly what kind of work that you do. What tools
you currently use or plan to buy. What do you make, etc.

With that kind of space, i would definitely make some big benches. You can
never have too much bench space!

"BDBConstruction" wrote
blower from other shop) would be better. Either will require drops
from the ceiling. I am wondering about the best way to do this for
center stations like table saws, etc.

Benches, sheet goods, lumber storage are very high on the list of
needs.

Post is already too long, but look forward to any input you all may
have,

While this does not address your questions directly, you may want to
consider downloading the free version of Google SketchUp, then going he

http://www.yda-online.com/shopmodels.htm

.... to get 3D models of many common shop tools, also free.

SketchUp is easy/quick to come up to speed on and is great as a shop layout
aid in plan/overhead view, then hit the "orbit" button and you can walk
around the entire shop in 3D.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

On Nov 26, 9:44*pm, "Lee Michaels"
wrote:

I guess I still don't really know what you want to do. It would help a lot
of you were define more clearly what kind of work that you do. What tools
you currently use or plan to buy. *What do you make, etc.

Lee, Thanks for the reply. Currently we do not make anything for
retail/wholesale. This would be a new focus of the shop in aims to
ramp down the homebuilding in the future. In our current shop we make
a lot of components which then go into homes/additions. Shelving
units, built in media centers, vanities, and the like. We also do a
LOT of pre-fab for casing and mill work in the same projects. Many of
the homes and work we do use custom millwork and semi one of a kind
details mainly because we design it in, are willing to do it,
interested in doing it, and interested in making it. It has become
somewhat of a trademark of our business.

That said, the vast majority of the contractors operating around us
are more straight forward off-the-shelf types which means that a large
part of our current shop work will be lost when our primary customer
(ourselves) phase out of business. I am not confident this work will
remain simply being installed by the surrounding contractors rather
than us. This is not so say we may not retain some of this work
ourselves or through other contractors but it likely wont be our major
focus.

A rough general direction with regards to wood has been making a semi
stock/production line of items which would be augmented (hopefully a
lot) by custom orders. Yearly we make thank you gifts for customers
(homes/additions) that may be sets of nesting trays, wood bowls/lidded
items, dovetailed blanket chests, trinket boxes, and so on. We also
give some of these items to others in the community on a bit of a
random basis. These items have built up quite a buzz of requests for
anything from media centers, to office units, desks, pie safes, simple
storage units, dry sinks, and so on. We have a ready list of custom
work at this point. In addition we have no problem with offering items
wholesale to several outlets in the area. For us, taking a 40-50
percent hit is well worth it in trade for them dealing with sales tax,
retail hours, customer issues (color, size, dickering), and so on.

That said, we would like to start a retail shop or gallery space that
would showcase these and other items yet to be nailed down. I guess it
would be a blend of stock and custom woodworking with a slight focus
on free standing items (sold as is) as opposed to built-ins requiring
site installation though that wouldnt be out of the question based on
our past.

Tool purchases will be minimal while we heal up from the building
purchase. Current tools are typical, TS, BS, Jointers, Thickness
planers, drill presses, lathe, majority of small tools, RO sanders,
palms, routers, belt sanders, pocket jigs, corless' up the ying yang,
clamps, etc.. Basically a full shop. The only things I could think of
purchasing would be a dust collector as opposed to the chip house
option (heat loss) and adding to, or upgrading our current equipment.
This would be additional routers, we dont have a solid router table in
the shop right now, but even those are not essential. I have a hand
plane addiction which would have to be kept in check.

With that kind of space, i would definitely make some big benches. You can
never have too much bench space!

Agreed. I am thinking big benches, casters, drawer/shelf storage
below.

Mark

Grizzly has on their web site a nice shop layout tool. Free, easy,
simple and efficient.

"BDBConstruction" wrote:

In the short term we aim to install a woodstove to offset the gas
heat
in winter. Issues of sawdust and fumes are understood and this may
be
a non-option when the public comes on-line.

I take it a woodstove won't be an air polution issue.

Dust collection will be a
biggie. I am not sure if a commercially available dust collector or
building a chip house and extracting to it (already have big 3hp
blower from other shop) would be better.

3HP is not a very large dust collector for a commercial application.

As an example, local drum sanding shop has a 20HP /w/ bag house for
just the drum sander.

YMMV

Lew

On Nov 26, 9:53*pm, "Swingman" wrote:
"BDBConstruction" wrote

blower from other shop) would be better. Either will require drops
from the ceiling. I am wondering about the best way to do this for
center stations like table saws, etc.

Benches, sheet goods, lumber storage are very high on the list of
needs.

Post is already too long, but look forward to any input you all may
have,

While this does not address your questions directly, you may want to
consider downloading the free version of Google SketchUp, then going he

http://www.yda-online.com/shopmodels.htm

... to get 3D models of many common shop tools, also free.

SketchUp is easy/quick to come up to speed on and is great as a shop layout
aid in plan/overhead view, then hit the "orbit" button and you can walk
around the entire shop in 3D.

--www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

Karl,
Thanks for the link. I have been using sketchup almost daily for a
year or more on the job. It has been one of the most valuable
additions to our business. I cant even tell you. There is nothing like
standing on a job working through an issue with a customer and being
able to work up a rendering in 30 minutes for their approval. I can
then take it to the office and work it up in detail, out to the shop,
poof. I am not sure what I would do without sketchup now that I have
become addicted.

mark

On Nov 26, 10:52*pm, "Lew Hodgett" wrote:
"BDBConstruction" wrote:
In the short term we aim to install a woodstove to offset the gas
heat
in winter. Issues of sawdust and fumes are understood and this may
be
a non-option when the public comes on-line.

I take it a woodstove won't be an air polution issue.

Dust collection will be a
biggie. I am not sure if a commercially available dust collector or
building a chip house and extracting to it (already have big 3hp
blower from other shop) would be better.

3HP is not a very large dust collector for a commercial application.

As an example, local drum sanding shop has a 20HP /w/ bag house for
just the drum sander.

YMMV

Lew

Lew,
Thanks for the input. I am not sure I follow the air pollution thing
with the wood stove? With regards to the dust collector, I guess I am
thinking of this more as a one or two operation at a time situation
though we may still fall short. It would most likely be a single major
operation at a time (planer/TS/etc) and a dual operation may be TS
while someone is sanding. I agree that a production shop would need a
serious system and we may get there, I am just trying to get this
thing off the ground.

I was more concerned with the chip house option dumping all that
conditioned (heated) air to the chip house. I am not sure about this
coupled with the make-up air issues opposed to a free standing dust
collector. I like the idea of extracting the dust (fines) to the
outside. However the heating and make-up air issues may make
installing the dust collector in its own interior space, somewhat
sealed and vented, a better option to get started?

Mark

"BDBConstruction" wrote:

Thanks for the input. I am not sure I follow the air pollution thing
with the wood stove?

Don't know about your area but here in SoCal, a wood burning stove
would not be allowed.

Air polution reduction is a serious business around here.

With regards to the dust collector, I guess I am
thinking of this more as a one or two operation at a time situation
though we may still fall short.

Time to have a heart to heart with the dust collection system people.

Make up air, heat losses, dust collection, etc require an engineered
solution unless you have an unending supply of moneyG

Don't have to implement the whole plan, but having it is like chicken
soup.

No medicinal value, but hadn't ought'a hurtG.

Lew

Start with thinking about work flow.

Wood comes into one end of shop and gets stored near the door.
- Sheet goods stored as close as possible to table or panel saw
where hey first get broken down.
- Stick goods get stored where they can fall easily onto the cut-
off saw table

Machine layout



On Nov 26, 5:51*pm, BDBConstruction wrote:
Hello to the group,
Been searching the archives reading everything we can find on shop
layout and setup but thought I would throw out a quick request for
input as well.

We have had a rented space for our homebuilding business for some
time, storage, shop, short-medium millwork runs, pre-fab'ing built-
ins, and so on. All the major tools. Well, even though we are heading
into winter, and the current economic climate is less than favorable,
an opportunity has presented itself that is too hard to pass up. We
are moving on a piece of commercial property with a 35 x 80 building
on it. Will finalize in the next week or two. Wide open inside, heat,
gas, city and well water, rest rooms, and a perfect office/gallery
space on one end. There is a separate bay with overhead door on the
other end that could double as a nice spray booth. 10' ceilings,
concrete floor.

I have been reeling with layout, dust collection, sheet goods storage,
product lines, and the like. Just though I would throw out this broad
rambling in an attempt to tap into the collective expertise of the
group.

While on the short term (2-5 years) we will be aiming to keep the
place afloat with ww'ing sales combined with a hopeful ramping down of
the homebuilding, our long term goal may be to add a second floor to
half of the building and move it into some sort of a craft center.
Multiple crafts, clinics, workshops, and classes. This would be in
addition to our own work. Perhaps wood, ceramics (pottery), stained
glass, beading, metal working, etc.. All on a smallish scale of course
due to the building size but all areas we have experience in and yet
could access crafts people to perform classes/workshops. There is
nothing like this for a forty mile radius in our area so we are
thinking it may be a good thing for us and the community.

Starting with a clean slate, like anyone, I am hoping to make the most
of a not-so-big space with a scant eye on future public use. I am in
hopes to move forward in a fashion that will prepare us for the
opportunity to include the public.

In the short term we aim to install a woodstove to offset the gas heat
in winter. Issues of sawdust and fumes are understood and this may be
a non-option when the public comes on-line. Dust collection will be a
biggie. I am not sure if a commercially available dust collector or
building a chip house and extracting to it (already have big 3hp
blower from other shop) would be better. Either will require drops
from the ceiling. I am wondering about the best way to do this for
center stations like table saws, etc.

Benches, sheet goods, lumber storage are very high on the list of
needs.

Post is already too long, but look forward to any input you all may
have,
Thanks, Mark

Excuse if double posted.

Think work flow

Wood enters one end of shop and is stored near door



On Nov 26, 5:51*pm, BDBConstruction wrote:
Hello to the group,
Been searching the archives reading everything we can find on shop
layout and setup but thought I would throw out a quick request for
input as well.

We have had a rented space for our homebuilding business for some
time, storage, shop, short-medium millwork runs, pre-fab'ing built-
ins, and so on. All the major tools. Well, even though we are heading
into winter, and the current economic climate is less than favorable,
an opportunity has presented itself that is too hard to pass up. We
are moving on a piece of commercial property with a 35 x 80 building
on it. Will finalize in the next week or two. Wide open inside, heat,
gas, city and well water, rest rooms, and a perfect office/gallery
space on one end. There is a separate bay with overhead door on the
other end that could double as a nice spray booth. 10' ceilings,
concrete floor.

I have been reeling with layout, dust collection, sheet goods storage,
product lines, and the like. Just though I would throw out this broad
rambling in an attempt to tap into the collective expertise of the
group.

While on the short term (2-5 years) we will be aiming to keep the
place afloat with ww'ing sales combined with a hopeful ramping down of
the homebuilding, our long term goal may be to add a second floor to
half of the building and move it into some sort of a craft center.
Multiple crafts, clinics, workshops, and classes. This would be in
addition to our own work. Perhaps wood, ceramics (pottery), stained
glass, beading, metal working, etc.. All on a smallish scale of course
due to the building size but all areas we have experience in and yet
could access crafts people to perform classes/workshops. There is
nothing like this for a forty mile radius in our area so we are
thinking it may be a good thing for us and the community.

Starting with a clean slate, like anyone, I am hoping to make the most
of a not-so-big space with a scant eye on future public use. I am in
hopes to move forward in a fashion that will prepare us for the
opportunity to include the public.

In the short term we aim to install a woodstove to offset the gas heat
in winter. Issues of sawdust and fumes are understood and this may be
a non-option when the public comes on-line. Dust collection will be a
biggie. I am not sure if a commercially available dust collector or
building a chip house and extracting to it (already have big 3hp
blower from other shop) would be better. Either will require drops
from the ceiling. I am wondering about the best way to do this for
center stations like table saws, etc.

Benches, sheet goods, lumber storage are very high on the list of
needs.

Post is already too long, but look forward to any input you all may
have,
Thanks, Mark

Excuse if triple posted, can't fricking type.

Nice snag on the shop. You are envied.

Think work flow when you do layout.

Wood comes in one end of shop and is stored near the door such that...
- Sheet goods are near table saw or panel saw, whichever is the
first step in breakdown
- Stick goods pull easily to the cutoff saw table

Machine layout goes in stations
- Jointer, planer and table saw in golden triangle near panel and
cutoff saws (in arrangement that makes it easy to cycle boards through
these)
- Milling area is next has router table\shaper, drilling\pocket
bandsaw grouped around a table
- Then an area for sanding with edge sander, flatsander (wide
\drum), spindle

Assembly area
- Tables backed by wall of hand tools, clamps, hand power tools,
hardware, glue and fastner storage

Finishing
- As far from sanders as possible ;^)

These stations can be in one long line or start down one side of the
shop and loop back up the other. You won't alwasy cycle through in the
exact order but it adds some organization to work this way. The shop
layout tools or sketchup can help you make sure you get arrangements
that allow for long rips, long boards coming out of planer, sanders,
etc. and always leave room for carts to get through all areas. If you
are assembling big things, then think about how they get to a door
when deciding where to put the assmebly area.

On Nov 26, 5:51*pm, BDBConstruction wrote:
Hello to the group,
Been searching the archives reading everything we can find on shop
layout and setup but thought I would throw out a quick request for
input as well.

We have had a rented space for our homebuilding business for some
time, storage, shop, short-medium millwork runs, pre-fab'ing built-
ins, and so on. All the major tools. Well, even though we are heading
into winter, and the current economic climate is less than favorable,
an opportunity has presented itself that is too hard to pass up. We
are moving on a piece of commercial property with a 35 x 80 building
on it. Will finalize in the next week or two. Wide open inside, heat,
gas, city and well water, rest rooms, and a perfect office/gallery
space on one end. There is a separate bay with overhead door on the
other end that could double as a nice spray booth. 10' ceilings,
concrete floor.

I have been reeling with layout, dust collection, sheet goods storage,
product lines, and the like. Just though I would throw out this broad
rambling in an attempt to tap into the collective expertise of the
group.

While on the short term (2-5 years) we will be aiming to keep the
place afloat with ww'ing sales combined with a hopeful ramping down of
the homebuilding, our long term goal may be to add a second floor to
half of the building and move it into some sort of a craft center.
Multiple crafts, clinics, workshops, and classes. This would be in
addition to our own work. Perhaps wood, ceramics (pottery), stained
glass, beading, metal working, etc.. All on a smallish scale of course
due to the building size but all areas we have experience in and yet
could access crafts people to perform classes/workshops. There is
nothing like this for a forty mile radius in our area so we are
thinking it may be a good thing for us and the community.

Starting with a clean slate, like anyone, I am hoping to make the most
of a not-so-big space with a scant eye on future public use. I am in
hopes to move forward in a fashion that will prepare us for the
opportunity to include the public.

In the short term we aim to install a woodstove to offset the gas heat
in winter. Issues of sawdust and fumes are understood and this may be
a non-option when the public comes on-line. Dust collection will be a
biggie. I am not sure if a commercially available dust collector or
building a chip house and extracting to it (already have big 3hp
blower from other shop) would be better. Either will require drops
from the ceiling. I am wondering about the best way to do this for
center stations like table saws, etc.

Benches, sheet goods, lumber storage are very high on the list of
needs.

Post is already too long, but look forward to any input you all may
have,
Thanks, Mark

In article bb926d00-d677-46f7-ab50-b052e3c7a6e2
@l39g2000yqn.googlegroups.com, says...

Lew,
Thanks for the input. I am not sure I follow the air pollution thing
with the wood stove?


Look up

http://burningissues.org/car-www/index.html

"BDBConstruction" wrote

Karl,
Thanks for the link. I have been using sketchup almost daily for a
year or more on the job. It has been one of the most valuable
additions to our business. I cant even tell you. There is nothing like
standing on a job working through an issue with a customer and being
able to work up a rendering in 30 minutes for their approval. I can
then take it to the office and work it up in detail, out to the shop,
poof. I am not sure what I would do without sketchup now that I have
become addicted.

mark

Know what you mean, Mark. I'm also a home builder and personally
design/build the kitchens that go into our homes in a fairly well equipped
shop. Sketchup has made that job a lot easier from both mine, and the
clients, perspective. AAMOF, it is getting to the point that I can now whip
up a change talked over via e-mail and send it back in few minutes for their
review. I especially like the new "dynamic components" in version 7, which
make changing the cabinet dimensions in a run of kitchen cabinets easily
done with a few clicks, versus hours of painstaking redrawing with
conventional CAD.

Even designed an addition to our lake house with the program ... from
foundation, to framing, to the interior cabinetry.

Tell me SWMBO didn't love the hell out of that ...

Best of luck on your new shop and enterprise. While I've still got two
houses on the drawing board, you never know which way the wind will blow
next in a down time.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

On Nov 26, 11:27*pm, "Lew Hodgett" wrote:
"BDBConstruction" wrote:
Thanks for the input. I am not sure I follow the air pollution thing

with the wood stove?

Don't know about your area but here in SoCal, a wood burning stove
would not be allowed.

Air polution reduction is a serious business around here.

With regards to the dust collector, I guess I am

thinking of this more as a one or two operation at a time situation
though we may still fall short.

Time to have a heart to heart with the dust collection system people.

Make up air, heat losses, dust collection, etc require an engineered
solution unless you have an unending supply of moneyG

Don't have to implement the whole plan, but having it is like chicken
soup.

No medicinal value, but hadn't ought'a hurtG.

Lew

Lew/Phorbin,
Thats what I thought, we are way out in the country so no local issues
with regards to the stove. While I understand the environmental issues
I think its one of those things we have to accept. I am not a fan of
wood heat personally because if you factor in your time its an
outrageously expensive way to heat. However, in some situations it
becomes the best or in many cases the only option. We for instance
live on some fairly remote property which makes it a decent choice.

Its a given that when our time (financially) is better spent making
work for sale rather than tending the stove, the gas will be the
option. I am mainly looking at the wood as a way to reduce overhead in
the startup period and in a time when we will likely have extra time
to do it.

Point taken on the dust collection, makes total sense. I will start
down that path Monday. The phase-in plan sounds great.

Mark

BDBConstruction wrote:

Its a given that when our time (financially) is better spent making
work for sale rather than tending the stove, the gas will be the
option. I am mainly looking at the wood as a way to reduce overhead in
the startup period and in a time when we will likely have extra time
to do it.

If you get tired of the stove, and when gas seems excessively expensive,
you might consider building yourself some solar heating panels...

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/solar.html

On Nov 27, 11:00*am, "Swingman" wrote:

Best of luck on your new shop and enterprise. While I've still got two
houses on the drawing board, you never know which way the wind will blow
next in a down time.

--www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

I hear that. We have no real signs of slowing at the moment and its
looking like we will have work through the winter and summer. Even
though through the years we have never slowed, I am alway generally
cautious coming into winter. That coupled with the fear mongering
going around out there have to make you wonder. Whats awful is we have
been going ba**s to the wall for a long time now and my wife and I
decided at the end of the summer that we were going to force a
slowdown in hopes to give us a little time to ourselves. Then this
opportunity comes up and blew that all to smithereens. Gonna be a busy
winter now with work and building the shop. As would anyone be with
something like this, we are both excited and nervous.

Better to be busy than idle I suppose.

Mark
Mark

On Nov 27, 1:13*pm, Morris Dovey wrote:
BDBConstruction wrote:
Its a given that when our time (financially) is better spent making
work for sale rather than tending the stove, the gas will be the
option. I am mainly looking at the wood as a way to reduce overhead in
the startup period and in a time when we will likely have extra time
to do it.

If you get tired of the stove, and when gas seems excessively expensive,
you might consider building yourself some solar heating panels...

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USAhttp://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/solar.html

Morris,
I have had that on the list for my home for several years. We live off
grid, heat with wood in winter, LP Instant hot water. I cant wait to
get away from the wood. With good southern exposure I think solar
heating panels would be a great fit. The shop is in a less than
optimal location for southern exposure. Trees, and other issues,
however I have two bay doors on the southern side that we will be
framing in and they would be a perfect location for panels.

You mention building panels yourself while you sell them on your site.
What is the feasibility of building them vs. buying them? Plans? etc?
Thanks for the info.

Mark

"BDBConstruction" wrote in message
...
On Nov 27, 11:00 am, "Swingman" wrote:

Best of luck on your new shop and enterprise. While I've still got
two
houses on the drawing board, you never know which way the wind will
blow
next in a down time.

--www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

I hear that. We have no real signs of slowing at the moment and its
looking like we will have work through the winter and summer. Even
though through the years we have never slowed, I am alway generally
cautious coming into winter. That coupled with the fear mongering
going around out there have to make you wonder. Whats awful is we have
been going ba**s to the wall for a long time now and my wife and I
decided at the end of the summer that we were going to force a
slowdown in hopes to give us a little time to ourselves. Then this
opportunity comes up and blew that all to smithereens. Gonna be a busy
winter now with work and building the shop. As would anyone be with
something like this, we are both excited and nervous.

Better to be busy than idle I suppose.

Mark
Mark

Something to consider in your shop layout is storage and handling of
sheet goods
and other products, In the shop I used to work in before being laid
off was set up
so sheet goods (Melamine) was ordered and delivered on pallets, We had
a fork lift
and used it to store all palliated materials on the pallets on metal
shelving, similar to what
the big box stores use, Heavy materials could be moved around with the
lift or with pallet jacks
Made life much simpler
CC

BDBConstruction wrote:

You mention building panels yourself while you sell them on your site.
What is the feasibility of building them vs. buying them? Plans? etc?
Thanks for the info.

A full answer would take a while. The short version is that I encourage
those who can to build their own, and I'm happy to supply panels to
those who can't, don't want to, and/or want the best available.

At this point I've put more man-years into the technical aspects than
most DIY builders can afford to do, so my panels are probably
considerably better than those you're likely to build, which isn't a
put-down of your abilities - it's more a reflection of experience gained
by already having made more mistakes than you're likely able to make
building a single set of panels for your own use; and that I've invested
in specialized tooling which wouldn't make sense for most DIY types.

I've provided enough info on my website for DIYers to build fairly
decent panels - provided that [1] they pay attention and think about the
info, [2] they work carefully, and [3] they don't shortchange themselves
by substituting too cheap materials in order to save an insignificant
amount of money.

If I win the lottery (unlikely, since I don't buy tickets), or if I land
a corporate sponsor (which also appears unlikely), I'd like to make
plans for my panels and solar engines available for free download - but
until then I can't afford to do that.

I think you /can/ find plans at http://www.builditsolar.com - but the
stuff I've seen there has been (IMO) crippled by the desire to get
something together for the least possible cost.

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/solar.html

On Nov 27, 7:04*pm, Morris Dovey wrote:
If I win the lottery (unlikely, since I don't buy tickets)....

I've heard that buying them doesn't significantly improve your odds of
winning. YMMV.

JP