I'm having the most difficult time clamping boards to the Incra jig's right
angle fixture to make the tail cuts. I would appreciate any help and advice
on how to do this consistently (and hopefully quickly and efficiently).

I've tried parallel clamps (as shown in the manuals and videos), Bessey
clamps, and most recently, with a jig fixture clamp in the T-slots. The Kreg
pocketscrew vise-grip like clamp works well enough for me, but the wife has
difficulty clamping with enough tension. It's always hit or miss, taking
several attempts before it sits square, straight, and flush. Surely, not
everyone has this problem.

I lock the fixture to the fence (such as that were) with the middle screw,
and weight down the back of the fixture with a jar of coins to balance out
the clamp's weight. The t-slot clamp would almost work, but tends to pull
the board a little as it snaps over into the lock position. The Bessey and
parallel clamps seem to need more hands than the two I have.

The fence is square upright to the table. The right angle fixture is square
to the fence and table. The router insert is flush with the table, and not
free to move. The stock is square, straight, and flat.

As critical as this operation is to even passable joints, I find the right
angle fixture extremely difficult to get right. I've tried everything I can
think of, short of just holding the boards by hand. (Does that work?) Maybe
it would help if you would talk me through your procedures and setup. Joann,
my wife, is new to woodworking, and frustrated now close to giving up. (She
wants to build a table while we figure things out. Go figure.)

Thanks.
Mike.

MikeWhy wrote:
I'm having the most difficult time clamping boards to the Incra
jig's
right angle fixture to make the tail cuts. I would appreciate any
help and advice on how to do this consistently (and hopefully
quickly
and efficiently).

I've tried parallel clamps (as shown in the manuals and videos),
Bessey clamps, and most recently, with a jig fixture clamp in the
T-slots. The Kreg pocketscrew vise-grip like clamp works well enough
for me, but the wife has difficulty clamping with enough tension.
It's always hit or miss, taking several attempts before it sits
square, straight, and flush. Surely, not everyone has this problem.

I lock the fixture to the fence (such as that were) with the middle
screw, and weight down the back of the fixture with a jar of coins
to
balance out the clamp's weight. The t-slot clamp would almost work,
but tends to pull the board a little as it snaps over into the lock
position. The Bessey and parallel clamps seem to need more hands
than
the two I have.

The fence is square upright to the table. The right angle fixture is
square to the fence and table. The router insert is flush with the
table, and not free to move. The stock is square, straight, and
flat.

As critical as this operation is to even passable joints, I find the
right angle fixture extremely difficult to get right. I've tried
everything I can think of, short of just holding the boards by hand.
(Does that work?) Maybe it would help if you would talk me through
your procedures and setup. Joann, my wife, is new to woodworking,
and
frustrated now close to giving up. (She wants to build a table while
we figure things out. Go figure.)

I generally use a couple of Irwin quick-grip mini (note the
"mini"--you want the ones with that on the label) clamps. They've got
sufficient force for most jobs and they're small and light enough to
not overbalance the jig. When they don't have enough force I use the
Irwins to hold things together while I put on a couple of good
old-fashioned C-clamps.

On the Irwins, when you get them, wipe the bars with lacquer
thinner--sometimes they come with oil on them and that will make them
slip. You may have to clean them several times before they hold
reliably.

Before clamping the work to the jig, carefully align all the pieces to
be cut and clamp them together (if they're long enough to allow
this)--a couple more Irwins can be handy here.

--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

"J. Clarke" wrote in message
...
MikeWhy wrote:
As critical as this operation is to even passable joints, I find the
right angle fixture extremely difficult to get right. I've tried
everything I can think of, short of just holding the boards by hand.
(Does that work?) Maybe it would help if you would talk me through
your procedures and setup. Joann, my wife, is new to woodworking,
and
frustrated now close to giving up. (She wants to build a table while
we figure things out. Go figure.)

I generally use a couple of Irwin quick-grip mini (note the
"mini"--you want the ones with that on the label) clamps. They've got
sufficient force for most jobs and they're small and light enough to
not overbalance the jig. When they don't have enough force I use the
Irwins to hold things together while I put on a couple of good
old-fashioned C-clamps.

On the Irwins, when you get them, wipe the bars with lacquer
thinner--sometimes they come with oil on them and that will make them
slip. You may have to clean them several times before they hold
reliably.

Before clamping the work to the jig, carefully align all the pieces to
be cut and clamp them together (if they're long enough to allow
this)--a couple more Irwins can be handy here.

Thanks, John. I do have a couple of Irwins buried in the shop somewhere, but
I'm pretty sure they're not the minis. I'll dig them out give them a try. In
the meantime, is this the one you had in mind:
http://www.amazon.com/Quick-Grip-546...dp/B00002244S? Is the
difference just in the length of the bar?

I also tried adding a "fence" bar on the free end of the RA fixture, so a
jig clamp would just pull the work tight to that when it snaps over. That
works, but the edge needs to be tall enough the tallest stack, including
backing boards. Otherwise, the front board can still shift when it pulls
over into lock. That said, it's way overkill for registering just two sets
of cuts. Maybe on a long production run...

And if we're going that route... I wonder if there isn't a market for a CNC
router with a limited work envelope, just large enough to cut the end of a
board. Sort of like a Leigh jig, but without the fingers, and the router
moves itself.

I think I'll push her gently toward hand cutting the dovetails. (Talk about
spiralling into the toolbin black hole.) I just wanted her to have a quick
success on a first project. Maybe she's right. The side table has larger
details, more room to hide slight misalignments. What was I thinking anyway
with gas tight dovetails for the newbie.

MikeWhy wrote:
"J. Clarke" wrote in message
...
MikeWhy wrote:
As critical as this operation is to even passable joints, I find
the
right angle fixture extremely difficult to get right. I've tried
everything I can think of, short of just holding the boards by
hand.
(Does that work?) Maybe it would help if you would talk me through
your procedures and setup. Joann, my wife, is new to woodworking,
and
frustrated now close to giving up. (She wants to build a table
while
we figure things out. Go figure.)

I generally use a couple of Irwin quick-grip mini (note the
"mini"--you want the ones with that on the label) clamps. They've
got sufficient force for most jobs and they're small and light
enough to not overbalance the jig. When they don't have enough
force I use the Irwins to hold things together while I put on a
couple of good old-fashioned C-clamps.

On the Irwins, when you get them, wipe the bars with lacquer
thinner--sometimes they come with oil on them and that will make
them
slip. You may have to clean them several times before they hold
reliably.

Before clamping the work to the jig, carefully align all the pieces
to be cut and clamp them together (if they're long enough to allow
this)--a couple more Irwins can be handy here.

Thanks, John. I do have a couple of Irwins buried in the shop
somewhere, but I'm pretty sure they're not the minis. I'll dig them
out give them a try. In the meantime, is this the one you had in
mind:
http://www.amazon.com/Quick-Grip-546...dp/B00002244S?
Is
the difference just in the length of the bar?

Those are the ones. They're like the regular Quick Grips but the
whole clamp is about 2/3 the size.

I also tried adding a "fence" bar on the free end of the RA fixture,
so a jig clamp would just pull the work tight to that when it snaps
over. That works, but the edge needs to be tall enough the tallest
stack, including backing boards. Otherwise, the front board can
still
shift when it pulls over into lock. That said, it's way overkill for
registering just two sets of cuts. Maybe on a long production run...


And if we're going that route... I wonder if there isn't a market
for
a CNC router with a limited work envelope, just large enough to cut
the end of a board. Sort of like a Leigh jig, but without the
fingers, and the router moves itself.

Such a thing exists. http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/Projects/JBot/

I think I'll push her gently toward hand cutting the dovetails.
(Talk
about spiralling into the toolbin black hole.) I just wanted her to
have a quick success on a first project. Maybe she's right. The side
table has larger details, more room to hide slight misalignments.
What was I thinking anyway with gas tight dovetails for the newbie.

If you want her to achieve quick success with a first project it might
be best to start small and simple. If she can work all the way
through "Box by Box"
http://www.amazon.com/Box-Popular-Wo...2381376&sr=8-1
she'll have learned a tremendous amount of technique at low risk, low
cost, and on a small scale. It's not really a "teach yourself"
book--if you can give her some coaching it will go a long way, and if
you have a bandsaw and a planer to rip 2x6s into project wood then the
materials cost becomes practically nothing.

--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

"J. Clarke" wrote in message
...
MikeWhy wrote:
I wonder if there isn't a market for
a CNC router with a limited work envelope, just large enough to cut
the end of a board. Sort of like a Leigh jig, but without the
fingers, and the router moves itself.

Such a thing exists. http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/Projects/JBot/

Excellent. It's worth pursuing then.


I think I'll push her gently toward hand cutting the dovetails.
(Talk
about spiralling into the toolbin black hole.) I just wanted her to
have a quick success on a first project. Maybe she's right. The side
table has larger details, more room to hide slight misalignments.
What was I thinking anyway with gas tight dovetails for the newbie.

If you want her to achieve quick success with a first project it might
be best to start small and simple. If she can work all the way
through "Box by Box"
http://www.amazon.com/Box-Popular-Wo...2381376&sr=8-1
she'll have learned a tremendous amount of technique at low risk, low
cost, and on a small scale. It's not really a "teach yourself"
book--if you can give her some coaching it will go a long way, and if
you have a bandsaw and a planer to rip 2x6s into project wood then the
materials cost becomes practically nothing.

For sure. Even good clear pine is plenty cheap too. But I don't mind the
expense so much. You'll use up paint when you're learning to paint, so we
laid in 20 bdf of 1/2" hardwoods for her, figuring she could work her way
through the Incra box book. No dice on that, though. She got spooked when
her first practice cuts came out less than perfect.