A few months ago(6?) I asked about using CFL's in a shop.

Recommendations were, not a good idea, no reasons given.

So, bought a few 42W, 5100K full spectrum, CRI of 82. Lamp price $12,
porcelain screw in fixture, $3. (Need 45 lamps to reach 2.1 W per sq. ft.)

These few I bought seem to be just fine. Everything seems to line up with
tube type as to output, life, etc. Except tube fixtures cost more then the
whole setup using CFL's. Not HD fixtures. (Lithonia)

May throw in a few 4100K lamps to warm things up a bit, don't know.

What am I missing?

Thanks

"Rick Samuel" wrote:

A few months ago(6?) I asked about using CFL's in a shop.

Recommendations were, not a good idea, no reasons given.

So, bought a few 42W, 5100K full spectrum, CRI of 82. Lamp price $12,
porcelain screw in fixture, $3. (Need 45 lamps to reach 2.1 W per sq. ft.)

These few I bought seem to be just fine. Everything seems to line up with
tube type as to output, life, etc. Except tube fixtures cost more then the
whole setup using CFL's. Not HD fixtures. (Lithonia)

May throw in a few 4100K lamps to warm things up a bit, don't know.

What am I missing?

Maybe the dangers of breaking them and releasing mercury into the air.

http://www.snopes.com/medical/toxins/cfl.asp

Rick Samuel wrote:
A few months ago(6?) I asked about using CFL's in a shop.

Recommendations were, not a good idea, no reasons given.

My shop is full of them.

On a side note, they make great tool mounted lamps, as there is no
filament to fail due to vibration.

"Rick Samuel" wrote in message
...
A few months ago(6?) I asked about using CFL's in a shop.

Recommendations were, not a good idea, no reasons given.

So, bought a few 42W, 5100K full spectrum, CRI of 82. Lamp price $12,
porcelain screw in fixture, $3. (Need 45 lamps to reach 2.1 W per sq.
ft.)

These few I bought seem to be just fine. Everything seems to line up with
tube type as to output, life, etc. Except tube fixtures cost more then
the whole setup using CFL's. Not HD fixtures. (Lithonia)

May throw in a few 4100K lamps to warm things up a bit, don't know.

What am I missing?

Thanks


A couple of problems with a florescent is that they do flicker and they
can at a quick glance make certain tools appear to not be turning. If you
think your saw blade is not turning you might have an accident. This may be
more of a problem with a VS DP or Lathe and if you cannot hear the machine
running. Have you ever noticed how a drill chuck seems to spin backwards
stop and go forward as you raise and lower the speed when using florescent
lighting? As the speed of the chuck goes into and out of phase with the
cycles of the lamp the chuck can appear to be turning at a different speed
or direction.
Another problem is many are very slow to come up to full brightness, cold
makes this situation worse. I currently have 6 florescent flood lights in
my home and all take up to 20 - 40 seconds to put out any usable light and
they are comparable to a 65 watt spot.

On Aug 9, 5:39*pm, Richard Evans wrote:
"Rick Samuel" wrote:
A few months ago(6?) I asked about using CFL's in a shop.

Recommendations were, not a good idea, no reasons given.

So, bought a few 42W, 5100K full spectrum, CRI of 82. *Lamp price $12,
porcelain screw in fixture, $3. *(Need 45 lamps to reach 2.1 W per sq. ft.)

These few I bought seem to be just fine. *Everything seems to line up with
tube type as to output, life, etc. *Except tube fixtures cost more then the
whole setup using CFL's. *Not HD fixtures. *(Lithonia)

May throw in a few 4100K lamps to warm things up a bit, don't know.

What am I missing?

Maybe the dangers of breaking them and releasing mercury into the air.

http://www.snopes.com/medical/toxins/cfl.asp

Aw geeez, not this **** again????
I used to play with mercury when I was a kid... I used to rub it on
silver dimes to make them shiny... and I grew up norbal...geeezzz..

B A R R Y wrote:
Rick Samuel wrote:
A few months ago(6?) I asked about using CFL's in a shop.

Recommendations were, not a good idea, no reasons given.

My shop is full of them.

On a side note, they make great tool mounted lamps, as there is no
filament to fail due to vibration.

The big problem I have with them is that they don't work worth crap
with any kind of electronic control. Not just dimmers, but they have
trouble with any X10 stuff or the like that doesn't use a mechanical
relay.

--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

Robatoy wrote:


Maybe the dangers of breaking them and releasing mercury into the air.

http://www.snopes.com/medical/toxins/cfl.asp

Aw geeez, not this **** again????
I used to play with mercury when I was a kid... I used to rub it on
silver dimes to make them shiny... and I grew up norbal...geeezzz..

When I was a kid, shoe stores used to have X-ray machines you could
stick your foot in just to see what it looked like. We survived lots
of things that have since proved harmful.

On Sat, 09 Aug 2008 20:41:44 -0400, Richard Evans
wrote:

Robatoy wrote:


Maybe the dangers of breaking them and releasing mercury into the air.

http://www.snopes.com/medical/toxins/cfl.asp

Aw geeez, not this **** again????
I used to play with mercury when I was a kid... I used to rub it on
silver dimes to make them shiny... and I grew up norbal...geeezzz..

When I was a kid, shoe stores used to have X-ray machines you could
stick your foot in just to see what it looked like. We survived lots
of things that have since proved harmful.

Like playing with a bowl of mercury as if it were Jello.

On Aug 9, 9:58*pm, Phisherman wrote:
On Sat, 09 Aug 2008 20:41:44 -0400, Richard Evans

wrote:
Robatoy wrote:

Maybe the dangers of breaking them and releasing mercury into the air..

http://www.snopes.com/medical/toxins/cfl.asp

Aw geeez, not this **** again????
I used to play with mercury when I was a kid... I used to rub it on
silver dimes to make them shiny... and I grew up norbal...geeezzz..

When I was a kid, shoe stores used to have X-ray machines you could
stick your foot in just to see what it looked like. We survived lots
of things that have since proved harmful.

Like playing with a bowl of mercury as if it were Jello.

Goodness...I was never lucky enough to have a whole bowl... lucky you!

"J. Clarke" wrote in message

The big problem I have with them is that they don't work worth crap
with any kind of electronic control. Not just dimmers, but they have
trouble with any X10 stuff or the like that doesn't use a mechanical
relay.


I have two on X-10, one on the appliance module, the other on a lamp module.
Works OK but I never need to dim those two. They are good in places that
need night lights or in difficult to reach fixtures as they last a long
time. I'll never convert 100% though, they can't do it all.

What am I missing?

Maybe the dangers of breaking them and releasing mercury into the air.

http://www.snopes.com/medical/toxins/cfl.asp

Same with tube type. Is there more mercury in CFL's? The above said
nothing about a difference.

"J. Clarke" wrote in message
...
B A R R Y wrote:
Rick Samuel wrote:
A few months ago(6?) I asked about using CFL's in a shop.

Recommendations were, not a good idea, no reasons given.

My shop is full of them.

On a side note, they make great tool mounted lamps, as there is no
filament to fail due to vibration.

The big problem I have with them is that they don't work worth crap
with any kind of electronic control. Not just dimmers, but they have
trouble with any X10 stuff or the like that doesn't use a mechanical
relay.

Well, a real, and helpful answer, thanks. I have a few mag. switches.

On Aug 10, 12:41 am, Richard Evans wrote:
Robatoy wrote:

Maybe the dangers of breaking them and releasing mercury into the air.

http://www.snopes.com/medical/toxins/cfl.asp

Aw geeez, not this **** again????
I used to play with mercury when I was a kid... I used to rub it on
silver dimes to make them shiny... and I grew up norbal...geeezzz..

When I was a kid, shoe stores used to have X-ray machines you could
stick your foot in just to see what it looked like. We survived lots
of things that have since proved harmful.

Some of us did.

--

FF

On Aug 9, 5:59 pm, "Leon" wrote:
"Rick Samuel" wrote in message

...



A few months ago(6?) I asked about using CFL's in a shop.

Recommendations were, not a good idea, no reasons given.

So, bought a few 42W, 5100K full spectrum, CRI of 82. Lamp price $12,
porcelain screw in fixture, $3. (Need 45 lamps to reach 2.1 W per sq.
ft.)

These few I bought seem to be just fine. Everything seems to line up with
tube type as to output, life, etc. Except tube fixtures cost more then
the whole setup using CFL's. Not HD fixtures. (Lithonia)

May throw in a few 4100K lamps to warm things up a bit, don't know.

What am I missing?

Thanks

A couple of problems with a florescent is that they do flicker and they
can at a quick glance make certain tools appear to not be turning.

CFLS? I thought the flicker frequency was in kHz range, undetectable.

Another problem is many are very slow to come up to full brightness, cold
makes this situation worse. I currently have 6 florescent flood lights in
my home and all take up to 20 - 40 seconds to put out any usable light and
they are comparable to a 65 watt spot.

Takes my eyes at least that long to focus, so no problem.
Note that the Lexan-encased PAR floods with the CFL tubes
inside offer a solution to the leakage of the trace of mercury
should the tube break.

Robatoy wrote in
:

When I was a kid, shoe stores used to have X-ray machines you could
stick your foot in just to see what it looked like. We survived lots
of things that have since proved harmful.

Like playing with a bowl of mercury as if it were Jello.

Goodness...I was never lucky enough to have a whole bowl... lucky you!

My 10th grade chemistry teacher - Miss Green - dropped a 500 ml beaker
about half full of mercury. We all played with marble-size balls of the
stuff for days.

The next year, she dropped a large sealed flask of chlorine gas. They
evacuated the science wing for the rest of the day.

Scott

"Rick Samuel" wrote:


What am I missing?

Maybe the dangers of breaking them and releasing mercury into the air.

http://www.snopes.com/medical/toxins/cfl.asp

Same with tube type. Is there more mercury in CFL's? The above said
nothing about a difference.

I'm guessing that there is, based on several observations:

- I've never seen dire warnings about the consequences of breaking the
tubes..

- There are not complicated cleanup instructions for broken tubes.

- The landfill accepts tubes but not CFLs.

- I've never seen in the dicusssion of the dangers of CFLs a mention
of similar dangers from tubes.

On Aug 10, 6:55 am, Elrond Hubbard wrote:
Robatoy wrote :

When I was a kid, shoe stores used to have X-ray machines you could
stick your foot in just to see what it looked like. We survived lots
of things that have since proved harmful.

Like playing with a bowl of mercury as if it were Jello.

Goodness...I was never lucky enough to have a whole bowl... lucky you!

My 10th grade chemistry teacher - Miss Green - dropped a 500 ml beaker
about half full of mercury. We all played with marble-size balls of the
stuff for days.

The next year, she dropped a large sealed flask of chlorine gas. They
evacuated the science wing for the rest of the day.

Scott

I set off a thermite bomb in the hood and they evacuated the school -
2500 kids.

On Aug 9, 11:28*pm, "Rick Samuel"
wrote:
What am I missing?

Maybe the dangers of breaking them and releasing mercury into the air.

http://www.snopes.com/medical/toxins/cfl.asp

*Same with tube type. *Is there more mercury in CFL's? *The above said
nothing about a difference.

Here's a comparison mercury quantities in different products:

Product
Amount of Mercury
Number of Equivalent CFLs

Compact
fluorescent lamp
5 milligrams
1

Watch battery
25 milligrams
5

Dental amalgams
500 milligrams
100

Home thermometer
500 milligrams – 2 grams
100 – 400

Float switches in sump pumps
2 grams
400

Tilt thermostat
3 grams
600

Electrical tilt switches and relays
3.5 grams
700

On Aug 10, 11:44 am, Richard Evans wrote:
...

- I've never seen in the dicusssion of the dangers of CFLs a mention
of similar dangers from tubes.

I do, vaguely.

The mercury vapor is needed so that there is a conductive path
between the electrodes when the tube is cold, before the gas is
ionized.

--

FF

On Aug 10, 12:13 pm, Lobby Dosser wrote:
On Aug 10, 6:55 am, Elrond Hubbard wrote:

...

The next year, she dropped a large sealed flask of chlorine gas. They
evacuated the science wing for the rest of the day.

...
I set off a thermite bomb in the hood and they evacuated the school -
2500 kids.

Why?

Oh, it was a high school administrator who made that
decision, right?

--

FF

"Father Haskell" wrote in message
...
On Aug 9, 5:59 pm, "Leon" wrote:
"Rick Samuel" wrote in message


A couple of problems with a florescent is that they do flicker and they
can at a quick glance make certain tools appear to not be turning.

CFLS? I thought the flicker frequency was in kHz range, undetectable.

In many cases it is undetectable but as a bulb begins to go bad and or the
ballast goes bad the flicker can be more evident. I was at a friends house
a few months ago and and the 24" florescent fixture on the ceiling in the
laundry room made you feel like you were in a Disco, it was nauseating.

Additionally the flicker is normally hard to see until you compare it to
something turning slightly out of phase with the kHz. I have some
"dimmable" floresent spot lights in track lighting and when they begin to go
bad they put on a light show.





Another problem is many are very slow to come up to full brightness, cold
makes this situation worse. I currently have 6 florescent flood lights
in
my home and all take up to 20 - 40 seconds to put out any usable light
and
they are comparable to a 65 watt spot.

Takes my eyes at least that long to focus, so no problem.
Note that the Lexan-encased PAR floods with the CFL tubes
inside offer a solution to the leakage of the trace of mercury
should the tube break.

Good to know, is that for all brands or a particular brand?

"J. Clarke" wrote in message
...
B A R R Y wrote:
Rick Samuel wrote:
A few months ago(6?) I asked about using CFL's in a shop.

Recommendations were, not a good idea, no reasons given.

My shop is full of them.

On a side note, they make great tool mounted lamps, as there is no
filament to fail due to vibration.

The big problem I have with them is that they don't work worth crap
with any kind of electronic control. Not just dimmers, but they have
trouble with any X10 stuff or the like that doesn't use a mechanical
relay.


Are you using "Dimmable" Fluorescents? They work well for me but they are
about 4x more expensive.

On Sat, 9 Aug 2008 05:10:49 -0600, Rick Samuel wrote
(in article ):

A few months ago(6?) I asked about using CFL's in a shop.

Recommendations were, not a good idea, no reasons given.

So, bought a few 42W, 5100K full spectrum, CRI of 82. Lamp price $12,
porcelain screw in fixture, $3. (Need 45 lamps to reach 2.1 W per sq. ft.)

These few I bought seem to be just fine. Everything seems to line up with
tube type as to output, life, etc. Except tube fixtures cost more then the
whole setup using CFL's. Not HD fixtures. (Lithonia)

May throw in a few 4100K lamps to warm things up a bit, don't know.

What am I missing?

In my experience, their lifespan is roughly the same as incandescents. This
seems to follow for cheap/expensive and their on/off duty cycle.

-Bruce


Thanks

On Aug 10, 2:57 pm, "Leon" wrote:
"Father Haskell" wrote in message

...

On Aug 9, 5:59 pm, "Leon" wrote:
"Rick Samuel" wrote in message

A couple of problems with a florescent is that they do flicker and they
can at a quick glance make certain tools appear to not be turning.

CFLS? I thought the flicker frequency was in kHz range, undetectable.

In many cases it is undetectable but as a bulb begins to go bad and or the
ballast goes bad the flicker can be more evident. I was at a friends house
a few months ago and and the 24" florescent fixture on the ceiling in the
laundry room made you feel like you were in a Disco, it was nauseating.

T12s flicker at line frequency. Narrower tubes turn on and
off at higher frequencies, same as how the thinner high E
string on a guitar sounds higher than the bass E.

Additionally the flicker is normally hard to see until you compare it to
something turning slightly out of phase with the kHz. I have some
"dimmable" floresent spot lights in track lighting and when they begin to go
bad they put on a light show.



Another problem is many are very slow to come up to full brightness, cold
makes this situation worse. I currently have 6 florescent flood lights
in
my home and all take up to 20 - 40 seconds to put out any usable light
and
they are comparable to a 65 watt spot.

Takes my eyes at least that long to focus, so no problem.
Note that the Lexan-encased PAR floods with the CFL tubes
inside offer a solution to the leakage of the trace of mercury
should the tube break.

Good to know, is that for all brands or a particular brand?

Cheapest works fine for me.

On Aug 10, 11:44 am, Richard Evans wrote:
"Rick Samuel" wrote:

What am I missing?

Maybe the dangers of breaking them and releasing mercury into the air.

http://www.snopes.com/medical/toxins/cfl.asp

Same with tube type. Is there more mercury in CFL's? The above said
nothing about a difference.

I'm guessing that there is, based on several observations:

- I've never seen dire warnings about the consequences of breaking the
tubes..

- There are not complicated cleanup instructions for broken tubes.

- The landfill accepts tubes but not CFLs.

CFLs include PC boards, probably soldered with lead.
Lead amount per CFL is probably the same as for an
incandescent, however.

- I've never seen in the dicusssion of the dangers of CFLs a mention
of similar dangers from tubes.

On Aug 9, 11:28 pm, "Rick Samuel"
wrote:
What am I missing?

Maybe the dangers of breaking them and releasing mercury into the air.

http://www.snopes.com/medical/toxins/cfl.asp

Same with tube type. Is there more mercury in CFL's? The above said
nothing about a difference.

Smaller tube. Less Hg needed.

Robatoy wrote:
: On Aug 9, 11:28?pm, "Rick Samuel"
: wrote:
: What am I missing?
:
: Maybe the dangers of breaking them and releasing mercury into the air.
:
: http://www.snopes.com/medical/toxins/cfl.asp
:
: ?Same with tube type. ?Is there more mercury in CFL's? ?The above said
: nothing about a difference.

: Here's a comparison mercury quantities in different products:



Good to know, but it seems the mercury (as vapor) in CFCs is released
more immediately into the air than in most of the items you listed.
(The air one is breathing while cleaning up a broken CFC).

-- Andy Barss

On Aug 10, 10:49*pm, Andrew Barss wrote:
Robatoy wrote:

: On Aug 9, 11:28?pm, "Rick Samuel" : wrote:

: What am I missing?
:
: Maybe the dangers of breaking them and releasing mercury into the air.

Father Haskell wrote in
:


CFLs include PC boards, probably soldered with lead.
Lead amount per CFL is probably the same as for an
incandescent, however.


I doubt that CFLs would be soldered with lead. There's a witch hunt going
on for lead, so most outfits have switched to a lead-free solder.

Puckdropper
--
If you're quiet, your teeth never touch your ankles.

To email me directly, send a message to puckdropper (at) fastmail.fm

On Aug 11, 12:07 am, Puckdropper puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com wrote:
Father Haskell wrote :



CFLs include PC boards, probably soldered with lead.
Lead amount per CFL is probably the same as for an
incandescent, however.

I doubt that CFLs would be soldered with lead. There's a witch hunt going
on for lead, so most outfits have switched to a lead-free solder.

My next dead appliance to take apart to see
what's inside.

On Aug 10, 11:54 am, Fred the Red Shirt
wrote:
On Aug 10, 12:13 pm, Lobby Dosser wrote:

On Aug 10, 6:55 am, Elrond Hubbard wrote:

...

The next year, she dropped a large sealed flask of chlorine gas. They
evacuated the science wing for the rest of the day.

...
I set off a thermite bomb in the hood and they evacuated the school -
2500 kids.

Why?

Oh, it was a high school administrator who made that
decision, right?


Why did I set off the bomb? I'd done a term paper on thermite bombs -
this was only a dozen or so years post WWII.

Why did they evacuate the school? Hood didn't do a very good job and
somebody panicked.

On Aug 9, 6:10*am, "Rick Samuel"
wrote:
A few months ago(6?) I asked about using CFL's in a shop.

Recommendations were, not a good idea, no reasons given.

So, bought a few 42W, 5100K full spectrum, CRI of 82. *Lamp price $12,
porcelain screw in fixture, $3. *(Need 45 lamps to reach 2.1 W per sq. ft.)

These few I bought seem to be just fine. *Everything seems to line up with
tube type as to output, life, etc. *Except tube fixtures cost more then the
whole setup using CFL's. *Not HD fixtures. *(Lithonia)

May throw in a few 4100K lamps to warm things up a bit, don't know.

What am I missing?

Thanks

The distribution of the light may not be as good with the CFLs in the
porcelain fixtures. With the 4' or 8' fluorescent tubes the light is
very well distributed. Last winter I put in about 40 4' 2 bulb
fluorescent lights into the basement. Each fixture is about a foot or
so from the next in a row with about 6 feet between rows. Used the
cheap bulbs because I could not justify the 4 times cost for the nice
bulbs. Lots of light everywhere in the basement with no spots much
brighter than others. Very even distribution of light. Maybe wth
very high ceilings the porcelain fixtures with CFLs would have an
opportunity to disperse the light well enough. Or you could have
bright spots and dark spots in the room.

Robatoy wrote:
: How long do you think mercury vapour stays airborne? The stuff sinks
: like a stone.


Have a look at what you need to do to cleap up a CFL - requires being
down near the floor.


-- Andy Barss

On Aug 11, 3:49*pm, Andrew Barss wrote:
Robatoy wrote:

: How long do you think mercury vapour stays airborne? The stuff sinks
: like a stone.

Have a look at what you need to do to cleap up a CFL - requires being
down near the floor.

* * * * -- Andy Barss

You mean like Pluto the dog, sniffing a trail?
Who puts their face/nose on the floor when they're cleaning? I suspect
in some cases, some spilt Peruvian Marching Powder might compel some
to 'snort the floor'...

Or does mercury 'hover' on your planet? (hint: it's very heavy)

B A R R Y wrote:
Rick Samuel wrote:
A few months ago(6?) I asked about using CFL's in a shop.

Recommendations were, not a good idea, no reasons given.

My shop is full of them.

On a side note, they make great tool mounted lamps, as there is no
filament to fail due to vibration.

You can get CFLs rated for ceiling fan use. They have higher vibration
tolerance.

Jim Harvey wrote:

You can get CFLs rated for ceiling fan use. They have higher vibration
tolerance.

But do you need them?

"Regular" CFLs have been great for me in tools, ceiling fans, and garage
door openers.

B A R R Y wrote:

Jim Harvey wrote:

You can get CFLs rated for ceiling fan use. They have higher vibration
tolerance.

But do you need them?

"Regular" CFLs have been great for me in tools, ceiling fans, and garage
door openers.

Garage door opener, now that might be a really good application, thanks
for the idea.

Other than that, I haven't been very happy with the quality of light from
CFL's. They're OK for the porch lights since they save some money on
electricity (although they seem to attract more bugs with the extra UV).
The last batches I've bought seem to last a bit better than earlier
versions, such that they may be lasting long enough to actually save money.

--
If you're going to be dumb, you better be tough

On Aug 12, 11:27 pm, Mark & Juanita wrote:
B A R R Y wrote:

Jim Harvey wrote:

You can get CFLs rated for ceiling fan use. They have higher vibration
tolerance.

But do you need them?

"Regular" CFLs have been great for me in tools, ceiling fans, and garage
door openers.

Garage door opener, now that might be a really good application, thanks
for the idea.

Other than that, I haven't been very happy with the quality of light from
CFL's. They're OK for the porch lights since they save some money on
electricity (although they seem to attract more bugs with the extra UV).

High blue output. 15 or 25 watt cool white CFLs make
excellent, inexpensive plant grow lamps. While you
might not like the dead blue spectrum, plants absolutely
flourish under it.

The last batches I've bought seem to last a bit better than earlier
versions, such that they may be lasting long enough to actually save money.

--
If you're going to be dumb, you better be tough

Mark & Juanita wrote:

Garage door opener, now that might be a really good application, thanks
for the idea.

Be aware that they take a while to come up to full brightness in the
cold. I see it as an annoyance, but it's definitely a negative.

Mark & Juanita wrote:
: B A R R Y wrote:

: Jim Harvey wrote:
:
: You can get CFLs rated for ceiling fan use. They have higher vibration
: tolerance.
:
: But do you need them?
:
: "Regular" CFLs have been great for me in tools, ceiling fans, and garage
: door openers.

: Garage door opener, now that might be a really good application, thanks
: for the idea.

: Other than that, I haven't been very happy with the quality of light from
: CFL's. They're OK for the porch lights since they save some money on
: electricity (although they seem to attract more bugs with the extra UV).
: The last batches I've bought seem to last a bit better than earlier
: versions, such that they may be lasting long enough to actually save money.

I've had much the same disappointing experience. Several didn't last long,
and overall the quality and intensity of light doesn't seem up to snuff.
Dimmer (even ones that are supposed to exceed the replaced incandescents in
lumens), and off somehow.


I'm hoping for breakthroughs in LED manufacturing, so we can leapfrog over
the CFLs.


-- Andy Barss