OK, this has absolutely nothing to do with woodworking or the wreck, but
I had to share it with someone and the audio groups all officially suck.

Test-riding a new bike yeseterday, when I happened to go past a house which
had put out its recycling for pickup the next morning.

On top of the plastic nut buckets (Costco things--recognise 'em a mile away)
and the carefully washed tin cans was a chunk of audio gear. Pulled out a
shiny, clean, VERY well-kept Marantz 2238B receiver, circa 1978.

Works a treat--not even a burnt out bulb. Hmm. Maybe I'll put it in the
shop--that would almost make this an official woodworking gloat.

Colin

On top of the plastic nut buckets (Costco things--recognise 'em a mile away)
and the carefully washed tin cans was a chunk of audio gear. Pulled out a
shiny, clean, VERY well-kept Marantz 2238B receiver, circa 1978.

Yeah! I remember Marantz. Nice quality stuff. Too bad they didn't
throw out some of those big ole humongous speakers we were prone to
use in the 70's to go with it.

Colin B. wrote:

On top of the plastic nut buckets (Costco things--recognise 'em a mile away)
and the carefully washed tin cans was a chunk of audio gear. Pulled out a
shiny, clean, VERY well-kept Marantz 2238B receiver, circa 1978.

You suck!

"Colin B." wrote in message
news:sp2nk.120382$kx.53102@pd7urf3no...
OK, this has absolutely nothing to do with woodworking or the wreck, but
I had to share it with someone and the audio groups all officially suck.

Test-riding a new bike yeseterday, when I happened to go past a house
which
had put out its recycling for pickup the next morning.

On top of the plastic nut buckets (Costco things--recognise 'em a mile
away)
and the carefully washed tin cans was a chunk of audio gear. Pulled out a
shiny, clean, VERY well-kept Marantz 2238B receiver, circa 1978.

Works a treat--not even a burnt out bulb. Hmm. Maybe I'll put it in the
shop--that would almost make this an official woodworking gloat.

Colin

Damn!

That would bring hundreds of bucks at the local retro stereo store.

Colin B. wrote:

OK, this has absolutely nothing to do with woodworking or the wreck, but
I had to share it with someone and the audio groups all officially suck.

Test-riding a new bike yeseterday, when I happened to go past a house
which had put out its recycling for pickup the next morning.

On top of the plastic nut buckets (Costco things--recognise 'em a mile
away) and the carefully washed tin cans was a chunk of audio gear. Pulled
out a shiny, clean, VERY well-kept Marantz 2238B receiver, circa 1978.

Works a treat--not even a burnt out bulb. Hmm. Maybe I'll put it in the
shop--that would almost make this an official woodworking gloat.

Colin
Wow havent heard that name in ions. Kinda brings me back to my 1200 watt
Harmon Kardon Amp. What a beauty.
--
"You can lead them to LINUX
but you can't make them THINK"
Running Mandriva release 2008.0 free-i586 using KDE on i586
Website Address http://rentmyhusband.co.nr/

Colin B. wrote:

Works a treat--not even a burnt out bulb. Hmm. Maybe I'll put it in
the shop--that would almost make this an official woodworking gloat.

Colin

Cool, although by this time it might need some caps replaced. However if it
works then that's a score for sure.

Pulled out a shiny, clean, VERY well-kept Marantz 2238B receiver, circa 1978.


COOL!! (As I sit listening to the Saturday morning show on KVMR, on my
Fisher 220).

-Zz

Zz Yzx wrote:
Pulled out a shiny, clean, VERY well-kept Marantz 2238B receiver,
circa 1978.


COOL!! (As I sit listening to the Saturday morning show on KVMR, on
my
Fisher 220).

One does wonder what they replaced it with.

--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

J. Clarke wrote:
Zz Yzx wrote:
Pulled out a shiny, clean, VERY well-kept Marantz 2238B receiver,
circa 1978.


COOL!! (As I sit listening to the Saturday morning show on KVMR, on
my
Fisher 220).

One does wonder what they replaced it with.

Probably a Sony 7.1 surround sound "800 Watt" (really less than 10WPC RMS)
do-everything-poorly home theatre receiver.

Or maybe I'm being cynical, and they've replaced it with something more
like my main stereo.

Colin

On Aug 8, 4:55*pm, "Colin B." wrote:
OK, this has absolutely nothing to do with woodworking or the wreck, but
I had to share it with someone and the audio groups all officially suck.

Test-riding a new bike yeseterday, when I happened to go past a house which
had put out its recycling for pickup the next morning.

On top of the plastic nut buckets (Costco things--recognise 'em a mile away)
and the carefully washed tin cans was a chunk of audio gear. Pulled out a
shiny, clean, VERY well-kept Marantz 2238B receiver, circa 1978.

Works a treat--not even a burnt out bulb. Hmm. Maybe I'll put it in the
shop--that would almost make this an official woodworking gloat.

Colin

I love old audio gear like that. But I like TOOOBS!

I'll bet his wife made him throw it out....

Colin B. wrote:
OK, this has absolutely nothing to do with woodworking or the wreck, but
I had to share it with someone and the audio groups all officially suck.

Test-riding a new bike yeseterday, when I happened to go past a house which
had put out its recycling for pickup the next morning.

On top of the plastic nut buckets (Costco things--recognise 'em a mile away)
and the carefully washed tin cans was a chunk of audio gear. Pulled out a
shiny, clean, VERY well-kept Marantz 2238B receiver, circa 1978.

Works a treat--not even a burnt out bulb. Hmm. Maybe I'll put it in the
shop--that would almost make this an official woodworking gloat.

Colin

"Robatoy" wrote in message
I love old audio gear like that. But I like TOOOBS!

Knowing your warped mind, you may be thinking of something else when you say
"TOOOBS!", but my first thought when I was his message was to wonder what
the tubes would sell for.

DGDevin wrote:
Colin B. wrote:

Works a treat--not even a burnt out bulb. Hmm. Maybe I'll put it in
the shop--that would almost make this an official woodworking gloat.

Colin

Cool, although by this time it might need some caps replaced. However if it
works then that's a score for sure.

Yeah, I'll give it a quick once over, clean the pots as necessary, but if
it's been used regularly, the caps should still be in good shape. From what
I remember (and it's been a while!), electrolytics die mostly through disuse.

Colin

On Aug 10, 6:27*am, "Upscale" wrote:
"Robatoy" wrote in message
I love old audio gear like that. But I like TOOOBS!

Knowing your warped mind, you may be thinking of something else when you say
"TOOOBS!", but my first thought when I was his message was to wonder what
the tubes would sell for.

Nope, nothing sinister. Just a kick-in-the-nuts-grade reminder that
trading a Marantz 7C for a pair of Bryston 4B's wasn't the best move I
ever made, but HAD to as the 7C wouldn't give me adequate sound levels
through the electrostatics I was using at the time. Collectors pay
silly money for TOOOBS from justabout any manufacturer of that
vintage.

Do you recall Ring Audio on Irwin, there, Dave?

"Robatoy" wrote in message
Do you recall Ring Audio on Irwin, there, Dave?

Irwin Ave is only four blocks from where I live. I can't remember ever
seeing a Ring Audio there, but there is a Ring Audio near Queen and
Broadview. I've been in there before, but never had the money to buy. It was
always fun to window shop though.

On Aug 11, 5:44*am, "Upscale" wrote:
"Robatoy" wrote in message
Do you recall Ring Audio on Irwin, there, Dave?

Irwin Ave is only four blocks from where I live. I can't remember ever
seeing a Ring Audio there, but there is a Ring Audio near Queen and
Broadview. I've been in there before, but never had the money to buy. It was
always fun to window shop though.

Ring moved from Irwin and Bay to Queen and Spadina (approx. across
from that big fire) in the early 80's. Then closed shop and the repair
department moved to Queen & Broadview. The whole CD generation kinda
wiped out those fringe lunatic audiophiles who needed to spend $
1800.00 on a phono cartridge made out of solid piece of unobtanium
hand rubbed with the vaginal juices of a young Newfoundland virgin, a
rare commodity indeed.

Robatoy wrote:
On Aug 10, 6:27?am, "Upscale" wrote:
"Robatoy" wrote in message
I love old audio gear like that. But I like TOOOBS!

Knowing your warped mind, you may be thinking of something else when you say
"TOOOBS!", but my first thought when I was his message was to wonder what
the tubes would sell for.

Nope, nothing sinister. Just a kick-in-the-nuts-grade reminder that
trading a Marantz 7C for a pair of Bryston 4B's wasn't the best move I
ever made, but HAD to as the 7C wouldn't give me adequate sound levels
through the electrostatics I was using at the time. Collectors pay
silly money for TOOOBS from justabout any manufacturer of that
vintage.

Whew. Still holding out for the 4B in my system.

On Aug 11, 1:02*pm, "Colin B." wrote:
Robatoy wrote:
On Aug 10, 6:27?am, "Upscale" wrote:
"Robatoy" wrote in message
I love old audio gear like that. But I like TOOOBS!

Knowing your warped mind, you may be thinking of something else when you say
"TOOOBS!", but my first thought when I was his message was to wonder what
the tubes would sell for.

Nope, nothing sinister. Just a kick-in-the-nuts-grade reminder that
trading a Marantz 7C for a pair of Bryston 4B's wasn't the best move I
ever made, but HAD to as the 7C wouldn't give me adequate sound levels
through the electrostatics I was using at the time. Collectors pay
silly money for TOOOBS from justabout any manufacturer of that
vintage.

Whew. Still holding out for the 4B in my system.

I shared some manufacturing space with the Russell brothers (Bryston)
for a while and got to know them well. Bryston builds one the finest
transistor amps in the business and they're just a great bunch of
people who are a role model for anybody who wants to build an
electronic equipment business. Value for money and superb service.

http://www.bryston.ca/4bsst_m.html

From Abbey Road Studios to Lucasfilm and everyone in between...
http://www.bryston.ca/user1.html

Robatoy wrote:

I shared some manufacturing space with the Russell brothers (Bryston)
for a while and got to know them well. Bryston builds one the finest
transistor amps in the business and they're just a great bunch of
people who are a role model for anybody who wants to build an
electronic equipment business. Value for money and superb service.

http://www.bryston.ca/4bsst_m.html

From Abbey Road Studios to Lucasfilm and everyone in between...
http://www.bryston.ca/user1.html

Yep. I've alwayas liked the fact that they're one of the very very
few audiophile gear manufacturers who don't rely on unstable electronics,
secret parts, fairy dust, or outright magic to create their mystique.
Instead, they massively over-design, over-engineer, build precisely, and
then publish their schematics! Gotta love it.

Colin

On Aug 11, 4:35*pm, "Colin B." wrote:
Robatoy wrote:
I shared some manufacturing space with the Russell brothers (Bryston)
for a while and got to know them well. Bryston builds one the finest
transistor amps in the business and they're just a great bunch of
people who are a role model for anybody who wants to build an
electronic equipment business. Value for money and superb service.

http://www.bryston.ca/4bsst_m.html

From Abbey Road Studios to Lucasfilm and everyone in between...
http://www.bryston.ca/user1.html

Yep. I've alwayas liked the fact that they're one of the very very
few audiophile gear manufacturers who don't rely on unstable electronics,
secret parts, fairy dust, or outright magic to create their mystique.
Instead, they massively over-design, over-engineer, build precisely, and
then publish their schematics! Gotta love it.

Colin

A lot of the philosophy behind their designs was confirmed by the
findings of Dr. Floyd E. Toole.
All well designed POWER amplifiers sound the same, until driven into
distraction. Input over-load, complex impedance on the output drivers,
output overload etc. Some manufacturers stabilise their shoddy
amplifiers by applying gobs of feedback resulting in odd-order
harmonic distortion (a component of THD).
Properly designed amplifiers all sound the same when operating in
their envelope.

Colin B. wrote:
: Robatoy wrote:

: I shared some manufacturing space with the Russell brothers (Bryston)
: for a while and got to know them well. Bryston builds one the finest
: transistor amps in the business and they're just a great bunch of
: people who are a role model for anybody who wants to build an
: electronic equipment business. Value for money and superb service.
:
: http://www.bryston.ca/4bsst_m.html
:
: From Abbey Road Studios to Lucasfilm and everyone in between...
: http://www.bryston.ca/user1.html

: Yep. I've alwayas liked the fact that they're one of the very very
: few audiophile gear manufacturers who don't rely on unstable electronics,
: secret parts, fairy dust, or outright magic to create their mystique.
: Instead, they massively over-design, over-engineer, build precisely, and
: then publish their schematics! Gotta love it.

But since all amps these days sound the same (when properly matched for output level),
why would one want to spend $2650 for their entry-level amp?
Why not get a $250 Onkyo, and spend the rest on a killer set of speakers?


-- Andy Barss

On Aug 8, 8:37*pm, "Lee Michaels" wrote:
"Colin B." wrote in message

news:sp2nk.120382$kx.53102@pd7urf3no...



OK, this has absolutely nothing to do with woodworking or the wreck, but
I had to share it with someone and the audio groups all officially suck..

Test-riding a new bike yeseterday, when I happened to go past a house
which
had put out its recycling for pickup the next morning.

On top of the plastic nut buckets (Costco things--recognise 'em a mile
away)
and the carefully washed tin cans was a chunk of audio gear. Pulled out a
shiny, clean, VERY well-kept Marantz 2238B receiver, circa 1978.

Works a treat--not even a burnt out bulb. Hmm. Maybe I'll put it in the
shop--that would almost make this an official woodworking gloat.

Colin

Damn!

That would bring hundreds of bucks at the local retro stereo store.

He'd get $150 or so for it on eBay...not bad for trash! I bet some
kid advised grandma to get rid of the junk that doesn't even play MP3s
or get satellite.

R

Andrew Barss wrote:
Colin B. wrote:
: Robatoy wrote:

: I shared some manufacturing space with the Russell brothers (Bryston)
: for a while and got to know them well. Bryston builds one the finest
: transistor amps in the business and they're just a great bunch of
: people who are a role model for anybody who wants to build an
: electronic equipment business. Value for money and superb service.
:
: http://www.bryston.ca/4bsst_m.html
:
: From Abbey Road Studios to Lucasfilm and everyone in between...
: http://www.bryston.ca/user1.html

: Yep. I've alwayas liked the fact that they're one of the very very
: few audiophile gear manufacturers who don't rely on unstable electronics,
: secret parts, fairy dust, or outright magic to create their mystique.
: Instead, they massively over-design, over-engineer, build precisely, and
: then publish their schematics! Gotta love it.

But since all amps these days sound the same (when properly matched for output level),
why would one want to spend $2650 for their entry-level amp?
Why not get a $250 Onkyo, and spend the rest on a killer set of speakers?

Well, Robatoy summed it up in one sentence:
"Properly designed amplifiers all sound the same when
operating in their envelope."

Those two conditions aren't trivial to achieve. (But neither are they
impossible, as some would have you believe.)

The nice thing about Bryston et al is that they are SO well designed (and
implemented) that they are going to be operating within their envelope
no matter what you throw at them. Reactive loads, impedance mismatches
or capacitive loading on the input, Brystons just don't care. Signal in,
bigger signal out. That's what they do. Onkyo makes (or at least, used
to make) decent gear, but I'm not sure I'd count on it to drive
electrostatics. In fact, my B&W would probably have a hard time with them.

Colin

On Aug 12, 11:11*am, "Colin B." wrote:
Andrew Barss wrote:
Colin B. wrote:
: Robatoy wrote:

: I shared some manufacturing space with the Russell brothers (Bryston)
: for a while and got to know them well. Bryston builds one the finest
: transistor amps in the business and they're just a great bunch of
: people who are a role model for anybody who wants to build an
: electronic equipment business. Value for money and superb service.
:
:http://www.bryston.ca/4bsst_m.html
:
: From Abbey Road Studios to Lucasfilm and everyone in between...
:http://www.bryston.ca/user1.html

: Yep. I've alwayas liked the fact that they're one of the very very
: few audiophile gear manufacturers who don't rely on unstable electronics,
: secret parts, fairy dust, or outright magic to create their mystique.
: Instead, they massively over-design, over-engineer, build precisely, and
: then publish their schematics! Gotta love it.

But since all amps these days sound the same (when properly matched for output level),
why would one want to spend $2650 for their entry-level amp?
Why not get a $250 Onkyo, and spend the rest on a killer set of speakers?

Well, Robatoy summed it up in one sentence:
* * * * "Properly designed amplifiers all sound the same when
* * * * *operating in their envelope."

Those two conditions aren't trivial to achieve. (But neither are they
impossible, as some would have you believe.)

The nice thing about Bryston et al is that they are SO well designed (and
implemented) that they are going to be operating within their envelope
no matter what you throw at them. Reactive loads, impedance mismatches
or capacitive loading on the input, Brystons just don't care. Signal in,
bigger signal out. That's what they do. Onkyo makes (or at least, used
to make) decent gear, but I'm not sure I'd count on it to drive
electrostatics. In fact, my B&W would probably have a hard time with them..

Colin

And the Brystons do it with minimal internal feedback. A simple Zobel
network on a cross-over won't alter the linearity of the frequency
response, but yet it is audible mostly because it makes the load to
the amplifier a lot friendlier (resistive at low impedance.)

Onkyo, for a short while, was an upscale product with some of the
right ideas. It became a 'brand' and like so many others, the 'brand'
was slapped on anything being spewed forth by the chiwainese
electronics monster. There are very few brands that stayed the course
in terms of integrity. Harman Kardon, Denon come to mind. In fact all
things handled by Harman International.

That's my opinion about consumer electronics, loudspeakers are a whole
different kettle of fish.
A pair of Muons would look nice at my house. As soon as I gather up an
unused $ 140,000
http://www.kef.com/products/muon/

r

"Robatoy" wrote in message
...
On Aug 12, 11:11 am, "Colin B." wrote:
Andrew Barss wrote:
Colin B. wrote:
: Robatoy wrote:

: I shared some manufacturing space with the Russell brothers (Bryston)
: for a while and got to know them well. Bryston builds one the finest
: transistor amps in the business and they're just a great bunch of
: people who are a role model for anybody who wants to build an
: electronic equipment business. Value for money and superb service.
:
:http://www.bryston.ca/4bsst_m.html
:
: From Abbey Road Studios to Lucasfilm and everyone in between...
:http://www.bryston.ca/user1.html

: Yep. I've alwayas liked the fact that they're one of the very very
: few audiophile gear manufacturers who don't rely on unstable
electronics,
: secret parts, fairy dust, or outright magic to create their mystique.
: Instead, they massively over-design, over-engineer, build precisely,
and
: then publish their schematics! Gotta love it.

But since all amps these days sound the same (when properly matched for
output level),
why would one want to spend $2650 for their entry-level amp?
Why not get a $250 Onkyo, and spend the rest on a killer set of
speakers?

Well, Robatoy summed it up in one sentence:
"Properly designed amplifiers all sound the same when
operating in their envelope."

Those two conditions aren't trivial to achieve. (But neither are they
impossible, as some would have you believe.)

The nice thing about Bryston et al is that they are SO well designed (and
implemented) that they are going to be operating within their envelope
no matter what you throw at them. Reactive loads, impedance mismatches
or capacitive loading on the input, Brystons just don't care. Signal in,
bigger signal out. That's what they do. Onkyo makes (or at least, used
to make) decent gear, but I'm not sure I'd count on it to drive
electrostatics. In fact, my B&W would probably have a hard time with them.

Colin

And the Brystons do it with minimal internal feedback. A simple Zobel
network on a cross-over won't alter the linearity of the frequency
response, but yet it is audible mostly because it makes the load to
the amplifier a lot friendlier (resistive at low impedance.)

Onkyo, for a short while, was an upscale product with some of the
right ideas. It became a 'brand' and like so many others, the 'brand'
was slapped on anything being spewed forth by the chiwainese
electronics monster. There are very few brands that stayed the course
in terms of integrity. Harman Kardon, Denon come to mind. In fact all
things handled by Harman International.

That's my opinion about consumer electronics, loudspeakers are a whole
different kettle of fish.
A pair of Muons would look nice at my house. As soon as I gather up an
unused $ 140,000
http://www.kef.com/products/muon/

r

--

this is a ww group. i'm holding out for a pair of these
http://www.genesisloudspeakers.com/g1p1.html

charlie wrote:

"Robatoy" wrote in message

And the Brystons do it with minimal internal feedback. A simple Zobel
network on a cross-over won't alter the linearity of the frequency
response, but yet it is audible mostly because it makes the load to
the amplifier a lot friendlier (resistive at low impedance.)

Onkyo, for a short while, was an upscale product with some of the
right ideas. It became a 'brand' and like so many others, the 'brand'
was slapped on anything being spewed forth by the chiwainese
electronics monster. There are very few brands that stayed the course
in terms of integrity. Harman Kardon, Denon come to mind. In fact all
things handled by Harman International.

That's my opinion about consumer electronics, loudspeakers are a whole
different kettle of fish.
A pair of Muons would look nice at my house. As soon as I gather up an
unused $ 140,000
http://www.kef.com/products/muon/


this is a ww group. i'm holding out for a pair of these
http://www.genesisloudspeakers.com/g1p1.html

Nah. From a pure woodworking perspect, Moth wins hands down:
http://www.mothmuseum.com/mothaudio/products2.html

"Robatoy" wrote in message
A pair of Muons would look nice at my house. As soon as I gather up an
unused $ 140,000
http://www.kef.com/products/muon/

I don't know. After coming home from a long hard day at work and seeing a
pair of those, I'd think I was experiencing an acid flashback.

On Aug 12, 2:08*pm, "Colin B." wrote:
charlie wrote:

"Robatoy" wrote in message
And the Brystons do it with minimal internal feedback. A simple Zobel
network on a cross-over won't alter the linearity of the frequency
response, but yet it is audible mostly because it makes the load to
the amplifier a lot friendlier (resistive at low impedance.)

Onkyo, for a short while, was an upscale product with some of the
right ideas. It became a 'brand' and like so many others, the 'brand'
was slapped on anything being spewed forth by the chiwainese
electronics monster. There are very few brands that stayed the course
in terms of integrity. Harman Kardon, Denon come to mind. In fact all
things handled by Harman International.

That's my opinion about consumer electronics, loudspeakers are a whole
different kettle of fish.
A pair of Muons would look nice at my house. As soon as I gather up an
unused $ 140,000
http://www.kef.com/products/muon/

this is a ww group. i'm holding out for a pair of these
http://www.genesisloudspeakers.com/g1p1.html

Nah. From a pure woodworking perspect, Moth wins hands down:http://www.mothmuseum.com/mothaudio/products2.html

Wow... now THAT is fringe.
I have listened to the zero feed-back tube stuff from others (Stax) on
a pair of Lamda headphones (Earspeakers) and it is enough to kaka your
drawers. Scary as ol' hell.

The most realistic reproduction of a recorded piece I ever heard, was
a Kunstkopf (Sennheiser) recording of a harpsichord (built by a
friend) on a Nagra and then played back through a pair of Stax
Earspeakers, whilst sitting on a M&K subwoofer.

I refuse to admit that the Thai-Stick smoke coming from the musicians'
quarters had anything to do with my experience.

On Aug 12, 1:32*pm, "charlie"
wrote:
"Robatoy" wrote in message

...
On Aug 12, 11:11 am, "Colin B." wrote:



Andrew Barss wrote:
Colin B. wrote:
: Robatoy wrote:

: I shared some manufacturing space with the Russell brothers (Bryston)
: for a while and got to know them well. Bryston builds one the finest
: transistor amps in the business and they're just a great bunch of
: people who are a role model for anybody who wants to build an
: electronic equipment business. Value for money and superb service.
:
:http://www.bryston.ca/4bsst_m.html
:
: From Abbey Road Studios to Lucasfilm and everyone in between...
:http://www.bryston.ca/user1.html

: Yep. I've alwayas liked the fact that they're one of the very very
: few audiophile gear manufacturers who don't rely on unstable
electronics,
: secret parts, fairy dust, or outright magic to create their mystique.
: Instead, they massively over-design, over-engineer, build precisely,
and
: then publish their schematics! Gotta love it.

But since all amps these days sound the same (when properly matched for
output level),
why would one want to spend $2650 for their entry-level amp?
Why not get a $250 Onkyo, and spend the rest on a killer set of
speakers?

Well, Robatoy summed it up in one sentence:
"Properly designed amplifiers all sound the same when
operating in their envelope."

Those two conditions aren't trivial to achieve. (But neither are they
impossible, as some would have you believe.)

The nice thing about Bryston et al is that they are SO well designed (and
implemented) that they are going to be operating within their envelope
no matter what you throw at them. Reactive loads, impedance mismatches
or capacitive loading on the input, Brystons just don't care. Signal in,
bigger signal out. That's what they do. Onkyo makes (or at least, used
to make) decent gear, but I'm not sure I'd count on it to drive
electrostatics. In fact, my B&W would probably have a hard time with them.

Colin

And the Brystons do it with minimal internal feedback. A simple Zobel
network on a cross-over won't alter the linearity of the frequency
response, but yet it is audible mostly because it makes the load to
the amplifier a lot friendlier (resistive at low impedance.)

Onkyo, for a short while, was an upscale product with some of the
right ideas. It became a 'brand' and like so many others, the 'brand'
was slapped on anything being spewed forth by the chiwainese
electronics monster. There are very few brands that stayed the course
in terms of integrity. Harman Kardon, Denon come to mind. In fact all
things handled by Harman International.

That's my opinion about consumer electronics, loudspeakers are a whole
different kettle of fish.
A pair of Muons would look nice at my house. As soon as I gather up an
unused $ 140,000http://www.kef.com/products/muon/

r

--

this is a ww group. i'm holding out for a pair of thesehttp://www.genesisloudspeakers.com/g1p1.html

Those look a lot like Infinity IRS speakers. I'm not a big fan of
interrupted line-sources.