I just read an article by Glen D Huey of Popular Woodworking and he advises
not using push stick or pads when using ht jointer. He advises to use
rubber coated gloves. While I partially subscribe to not using push stick
and or pads when using the jointer to straighten the "edge" of a wide board,
the photographs show him wearing rubber coated cloves while surfacing the
face of a board on the jointer. He claims it gives him more feel for
knowing when the knives are hitting high spots. Personally I use my ears
and push pads.
What feel is he going to have after the board he is surfacing, shatters?

http://blogs.popularwoodworking.com/...903ef9479.aspx

IMHO this is just plain stupid. I do not care who you are and what safety
measures you take, the odds are against you and sooner or later you can or
will have an accident. While he does warn of certain dangerous practices
while wearing gloves, those concerns are a moot point if you are using a
push pad.

Leon said:

I just read an article by Glen D Huey of Popular Woodworking and he advises
not using push stick or pads when using ht jointer. He advises to use
....
IMHO this is just plain stupid. I do not care who you are and what safety
measures you take, the odds are against you and sooner or later you can or
will have an accident. While he does warn of certain dangerous practices
while wearing gloves, those concerns are a moot point if you are using a
push pad.

Wow. I concur. Not that it matters... Convenience is hardly a
consideration in lieu of the possible loss of digits/flesh.


Greg G.

"Leon" wrote

IMHO this is just plain stupid. I do not care who you are and what
safety
measures you take, the odds are against you and sooner or later you can or
will have an accident. While he does warn of certain dangerous practices
while wearing gloves, those concerns are a moot point if you are using a
push pad.

One of my supplier's reps has the first joints of three fingers on one hand
basically nonexistent from just such an accident on a jointer (aptly named
in this unfortunate instance).

The "thickness" of the work piece, regardless of how thick when 'face
jointing', is something I personally NEVER rely upon to protect me from the
jointer blades. That specific task on the jointer is one of the reason why I
own two, count'em - 2, Grrrippers ... and use them.

PW, although having some good stuff between its pages, is just another
example of not believing/taking at face value what you read, see, or hear in
this, the age of the idiocracy.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 12/14/07
KarlC@ (the obvious)

Swingman said:

"Leon" wrote

IMHO this is just plain stupid. I do not care who you are and what
safety
measures you take, the odds are against you and sooner or later you can or
will have an accident. While he does warn of certain dangerous practices
while wearing gloves, those concerns are a moot point if you are using a
push pad.

One of my supplier's reps has the first joints of three fingers on one hand
basically nonexistent from just such an accident on a jointer (aptly named
in this unfortunate instance).

The "thickness" of the work piece, regardless of how thick when 'face
jointing', is something I personally NEVER rely upon to protect me from the
jointer blades. That specific task on the jointer is one of the reason why I
own two, count'em - 2, Grrrippers ... and use them.

PW, although having some good stuff between its pages, is just another
example of not believing/taking at face value what you read, see, or hear in
this, the age of the idiocracy.

IIRC, Sam Maloof had a similar accident with a jointer that resulted
in the loss of several fingertips to the joint. Although watching him
work, would have guessed the accident occurred at the bandsaw.


Greg G.

"Greg G." wrote in message
...
Swingman said:

"Leon" wrote

IMHO this is just plain stupid. I do not care who you are and what
safety
measures you take, the odds are against you and sooner or later you can
or
will have an accident. While he does warn of certain dangerous
practices
while wearing gloves, those concerns are a moot point if you are using a
push pad.

One of my supplier's reps has the first joints of three fingers on one
hand
basically nonexistent from just such an accident on a jointer (aptly named
in this unfortunate instance).

The "thickness" of the work piece, regardless of how thick when 'face
jointing', is something I personally NEVER rely upon to protect me from
the
jointer blades. That specific task on the jointer is one of the reason why
I
own two, count'em - 2, Grrrippers ... and use them.

PW, although having some good stuff between its pages, is just another
example of not believing/taking at face value what you read, see, or hear
in
this, the age of the idiocracy.

IIRC, Sam Maloof had a similar accident with a jointer that resulted
in the loss of several fingertips to the joint. Although watching him
work, would have guessed the accident occurred at the bandsaw.


Greg G.

Doesn't Maloof freehand on the bandsaw? That's an operation that makes me
shudder just thinking about it. I guess it comes down to what's comfortable
for one, may/will not be comfortable for all.

Jc

On Thu, 17 Jan 2008 16:28:52 GMT, "Joe" wrote:

Doesn't Maloof freehand on the bandsaw? That's an operation that makes me
shudder just thinking about it.

It's very hard to screw up on a bandsaw in a way that will take your
fingers off. I guess Maloof can afford to crimp a blade now and then.

Andy Dingley wrote:
On Thu, 17 Jan 2008 16:28:52 GMT, "Joe" wrote:

Doesn't Maloof freehand on the bandsaw? That's an operation that
makes me shudder just thinking about it.

It's very hard to screw up on a bandsaw in a way that will take your
fingers off. I guess Maloof can afford to crimp a blade now and then.

True, if all you have is a toy bandsaw. You don't know your stump from
a hole in the ground, dingle-berry.

On Jan 17, 10:56 am, "Swingman" wrote:
"Leon" wrote



IMHO this is just plain stupid. I do not care who you are and what
safety
measures you take, the odds are against you and sooner or later you can or
will have an accident. While he does warn of certain dangerous practices
while wearing gloves, those concerns are a moot point if you are using a
push pad.

One of my supplier's reps has the first joints of three fingers on one hand
basically nonexistent from just such an accident on a jointer (aptly named
in this unfortunate instance).

The "thickness" of the work piece, regardless of how thick when 'face
jointing', is something I personally NEVER rely upon to protect me from the
jointer blades. That specific task on the jointer is one of the reason why I
own two, count'em - 2, Grrrippers ... and use them.

PW, although having some good stuff between its pages, is just another
example of not believing/taking at face value what you read, see, or hear in
this, the age of the idiocracy.


If humans were meant to face joint, they wouldn't have evolved the
capacity to make thickness planers...

"Jeff" wrote in message
...


If humans were meant to face joint, they wouldn't have evolved the
capacity to make thickness planers...




Care to support that comment, keeping in mind 1 face of the board should be
flattened before the other is introduced to the thickness planer?

On Thu, 17 Jan 2008 22:35:08 -0600, "Leon"
wrote:

Care to support that comment, keeping in mind 1 face of the board should be
flattened before the other is introduced to the thickness planer?

Just throw 'em straight into the thicknesser. Anythign too warped to
come out was too warped to be much use anyway 8-)

Andy Dingley wrote:
On Thu, 17 Jan 2008 22:35:08 -0600, "Leon"
wrote:

Care to support that comment, keeping in mind 1 face of the board
should be flattened before the other is introduced to the thickness
planer?

Just throw 'em straight into the thicknesser. Anythign too warped to
come out was too warped to be much use anyway 8-)

If it's cupped then you can flatten it in the thickness planer if you
know what you're about, but if it's bowed or twisted going into the
thicknesser it will still be bowed or twisted coming out of the
thicknesser. For some purposes this is acceptable, for others it
isn't.

--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

Jeff wrote:

If humans were meant to face joint, they wouldn't have evolved the
capacity to make thickness planers...


At this point, I'm going to step away from this thread, pour a drink,
and observe. G

"Jeff" wrote

If humans were meant to face joint, they wouldn't have evolved the
capacity to make thickness planers...

.... strictly for the benefit of those unsure of the difference between the
machines/operations.

Two machines/operations with very different purposes: one used to flatten an
edge or face (jointer); the other to mill opposite surfaces parallel
(planer).

A jointer won't necessarily mill opposite faces/edges parallel; and a planer
won't necessarily mill stock flat.

Both machines, used in conjunction, in a methodical manner, and in the
proper order (along with other tools like table saws/hand planes) will allow
a woodworker to mill straight, flat, and dimensioned, project stock from
rough lumber.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 12/14/07
KarlC@ (the obvious)

On Jan 18, 8:17 am, "Swingman" wrote:
"Jeff" wrote

If humans were meant to face joint, they wouldn't have evolved the
capacity to make thickness planers...

... strictly for the benefit of those unsure of the difference between the
machines/operations.

Two machines/operations with very different purposes: one used to flatten an
edge or face (jointer); the other to mill opposite surfaces parallel
(planer).

A jointer won't necessarily mill opposite faces/edges parallel; and a planer
won't necessarily mill stock flat.

Both machines, used in conjunction, in a methodical manner, and in the
proper order (along with other tools like table saws/hand planes) will allow
a woodworker to mill straight, flat, and dimensioned, project stock from
rough lumber.


For flat parallel sides, I go from rough cut to planer, to jointer
(edge) to table saw (opposite edge). Feel free to expound the virtues
of face jointing. I've never had a need. Unless we're dealing with
conceptual differences. I have jointed right angles on stock cut for
legs, then finished it to size on the jointer. A piece like that would
have finished at 1-1/2 x 1-1/2. I suppose technically I face jointed
although it felt like I jointed two edges.

Jeff

"Jeff" wrote in message
On Jan 18, 8:17 am, "Swingman" wrote:
"Jeff" wrote

If humans were meant to face joint, they wouldn't have evolved the
capacity to make thickness planers...

... strictly for the benefit of those unsure of the difference between
the
machines/operations.

Two machines/operations with very different purposes: one used to
flatten an
edge or face (jointer); the other to mill opposite surfaces parallel
(planer).

A jointer won't necessarily mill opposite faces/edges parallel; and a
planer
won't necessarily mill stock flat.

Both machines, used in conjunction, in a methodical manner, and in the
proper order (along with other tools like table saws/hand planes) will
allow
a woodworker to mill straight, flat, and dimensioned, project stock from
rough lumber.


For flat parallel sides, I go from rough cut to planer, to jointer
(edge) to table saw (opposite edge). Feel free to expound the virtues
of face jointing. I've never had a need.

Never mind sigh ... just go buy us both lottery tickets while your luck's
still holding.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 12/14/07
KarlC@ (the obvious)

Jeff wrote:

For flat parallel sides, I go from rough cut to planer, to jointer
(edge) to table saw (opposite edge). Feel free to expound the virtues
of face jointing. I've never had a need.

If the board starts out twisted or bowed, the planer will make a smooth
board of even thickness--but it will still be twisted or bowed.

Chris

Jeff wrote:

On Jan 18, 8:17 am, "Swingman" wrote:
"Jeff" wrote

If humans were meant to face joint, they wouldn't have evolved the
capacity to make thickness planers...

... strictly for the benefit of those unsure of the difference between the
machines/operations.

Two machines/operations with very different purposes: one used to flatten an
edge or face (jointer); the other to mill opposite surfaces parallel
(planer).

A jointer won't necessarily mill opposite faces/edges parallel; and a planer
won't necessarily mill stock flat.

Both machines, used in conjunction, in a methodical manner, and in the
proper order (along with other tools like table saws/hand planes) will allow
a woodworker to mill straight, flat, and dimensioned, project stock from
rough lumber.


For flat parallel sides, I go from rough cut to planer, to jointer
(edge) to table saw (opposite edge).

Then you've never removed twist from a board.

Just for jollies, go to a big box and buy an 8' 2x8 with twist that
you can see. The follow your procedure on one 4' length of that board
with noticeable twist, until you are not able to discern any twist
with your winding sticks.

For comparison, face joint one face of the other board before
thicknessing the opposite face.

What are the thicknesses of the two resulting dressed, non-twisted
boards?
--
Alex -- Replace "nospam" with "mail" to reply by email. Checked infrequently.

"Swingman" wrote:

"Jeff" wrote

If humans were meant to face joint, they wouldn't have evolved the
capacity to make thickness planers...

... strictly for the benefit of those unsure of the difference between the
machines/operations.

Two machines/operations with very different purposes: one used to flatten an
edge or face (jointer); the other to mill opposite surfaces parallel
(planer).

A jointer won't necessarily mill opposite faces/edges parallel; and a planer
won't necessarily mill stock flat.

Both machines, used in conjunction, in a methodical manner, and in the
proper order (along with other tools like table saws/hand planes) will allow
a woodworker to mill straight, flat, and dimensioned, project stock from
rough lumber.

And to further confuse things, our English brethren have the right
(IMHO) names for these machines: A planer (Am. "jointer") creates a
surface or edge in a single plane, while a thicknesser (Am. "Planer")
creates a board of uniform thickness (NOT one in a single plane).
--
Alex -- Replace "nospam" with "mail" to reply by email. Checked infrequently.

On Mon, 21 Jan 2008 09:26:43 -0500, alexy wrote:

And to further confuse things, our English brethren have the right
(IMHO) names for these machines: A planer (Am. "jointer") creates a
surface or edge in a single plane, while a thicknesser (Am. "Planer")
creates a board of uniform thickness (NOT one in a single plane).

American English *always* confuses things


--

Thu, Jan 17, 2008, 3:12pm (EST+5) (Leon)
doth sayeth:
I just read an article by Glen D Huey of Popular Woodworking and he
advises not using push stick or pads when using ht jointer. snip

Well, you know,if stupid was a crime, half the population would be
in jain. Just a shame he's trying to convert people to being stupid
too. I'm with you, on edge no push stick (unless it's very narrow), and
push sticks and/or push pad otherwise.



JOAT
10 Out Of 10 Terrorists Prefer Hillary For President
- Bumper Sticker
I don't have a problem with a woman president - just not Hillary.

On Jan 17, 10:07 am, (J T) wrote:
Thu, Jan 17, 2008, 3:12pm (EST+5) (Leon)
doth sayeth:
I just read an article by Glen D Huey of Popular Woodworking and he
advises not using push stick or pads when using ht jointer. snip

Well, you know,if stupid was a crime, half the population would be
in jain. Just a shame he's trying to convert people to being stupid
too. I'm with you, on edge no push stick (unless it's very narrow), and
push sticks and/or push pad otherwise.

A few weekends ago the TV was on DIY network or something like that
while I was eating lunch. I watched some "carpenter" cross cutting
using the rip fence as a guide. They even showed the cut piece get
thrown about 30 feet.

Way to educate!

On Thu, 17 Jan 2008 15:12:08 GMT, "Leon"
wrote:

I just read an article by Glen D Huey of Popular Woodworking and he advises
not using push stick or pads when using ht jointer. He advises to use
rubber coated gloves. While I partially subscribe to not using push stick
and or pads when using the jointer to straighten the "edge" of a wide board,
the photographs show him wearing rubber coated cloves while surfacing the
face of a board on the jointer. He claims it gives him more feel for
knowing when the knives are hitting high spots. Personally I use my ears
and push pads.
What feel is he going to have after the board he is surfacing, shatters?

http://blogs.popularwoodworking.com/...903ef9479.aspx

IMHO this is just plain stupid. I do not care who you are and what safety
measures you take, the odds are against you and sooner or later you can or
will have an accident. While he does warn of certain dangerous practices
while wearing gloves, those concerns are a moot point if you are using a
push pad.


Face jointing without push pads? Why that's just plain dumb. And
why does one need to know when the knives are hitting the high spots?
You run it through, turn it over and if it hasn't cleaned up you go
again. You're trying to create a flat plane, not find high spots.

Frank

I stand convicted. I got used to doing just that exact manuever for
that exact reason after I started using rubber faced gloves. I really
like using them on the table saw too. I must admit my balls do crawl
up inside a bit at the jointer whenever I do it. I have had others in
the shop comment and I just shrugged it off.

Now that I think about it, one of my main saftey teaching statements
is to say"Always think about what would happen if the board suddenly
vanished. Where are your hands? What would happen?" This keeps me from
pushing behind the TS or bandsaw blade, that's where I've seen the
most problems. But this thread just convinced me... I'm an idiot.
Never again.

ThanKs all.


On Jan 17, 7:12*am, "Leon" wrote:
I just read an article by Glen D Huey of Popular Woodworking and he advises
not using push stick or pads when using ht jointer. *He advises to use
rubber coated gloves. *While I partially subscribe to not using push stick
and or pads when using the jointer to straighten the "edge" of a wide board,
the photographs show him wearing rubber coated cloves while surfacing the
face of a board on the jointer. *He claims it gives him more feel for
knowing when the knives are hitting high spots. *Personally I use my ears
and push pads.
What feel is he going to have after the board he is surfacing, shatters?

http://blogs.popularwoodworking.com/...nk%2Cguid%2C21...

IMHO *this is just plain stupid. *I do not care who you are and what safety
measures you take, the odds are against you and sooner or later you can or
will have an accident. *While he does warn of certain dangerous practices
while wearing gloves, those concerns are a moot point if you are using a
push pad.

Leon wrote:

IMHO this is just plain stupid.

Maybe.

I've jointed stock that way with a major difference, no effort is
exerted on the infeed side once at least 6" clears the cutterhead.

Most of the time, I use push blocks. The times I don't are when the
stock is thick and heavy.

With or without blocks, once the stock passes the blades, both of my
hands are on the outfeed side of the machine. I'm PULLING the work
across the cutterhead. If my hand slips it goes AWAY from the blades.

A side benefit to pulling stock over a jointer is that the stock is
always referenced to the outfeed surfaces, and the operator can't
unintentionally rock the board as it moves.

"B A R R Y" wrote in message
news
Leon wrote:

IMHO this is just plain stupid.

Maybe.

I've jointed stock that way with a major difference, no effort is exerted
on the infeed side once at least 6" clears the cutterhead.

Most of the time, I use push blocks. The times I don't are when the stock
is thick and heavy.

With or without blocks, once the stock passes the blades, both of my hands
are on the outfeed side of the machine. I'm PULLING the work across the
cutterhead. If my hand slips it goes AWAY from the blades.

A side benefit to pulling stock over a jointer is that the stock is always
referenced to the outfeed surfaces, and the operator can't unintentionally
rock the board as it moves.


BUT that is if every thing goes well. If every thing goes well no
precautions would need to be observed. What happens if the board you are
running through shatters or the cutters hit an embedded nail or a knot?

The article provides pictures of thin stock.

You really need something and more than a glove between your hand the
jointer cutters should the board not remain in tact.

Having destroyed a number of pushsticks on a table saw, I find it cheap
insurance to make or buy more if they save my fingers. I always try to keep
fingers away from sharp edges, particularly powered sharp edges. I still
have all 10 after over 30 years as a woodworker.

"Leon" wrote in message
t...

"B A R R Y" wrote in message
news
Leon wrote:

IMHO this is just plain stupid.

Maybe.

I've jointed stock that way with a major difference, no effort is exerted
on the infeed side once at least 6" clears the cutterhead.

Most of the time, I use push blocks. The times I don't are when the
stock is thick and heavy.

With or without blocks, once the stock passes the blades, both of my
hands are on the outfeed side of the machine. I'm PULLING the work
across the cutterhead. If my hand slips it goes AWAY from the blades.

A side benefit to pulling stock over a jointer is that the stock is
always referenced to the outfeed surfaces, and the operator can't
unintentionally rock the board as it moves.


BUT that is if every thing goes well. If every thing goes well no
precautions would need to be observed. What happens if the board you are
running through shatters or the cutters hit an embedded nail or a knot?

The article provides pictures of thin stock.

You really need something and more than a glove between your hand the
jointer cutters should the board not remain in tact.

On Thu, 17 Jan 2008 12:55:28 -0500, "EXT"
wrote:

Having destroyed a number of pushsticks on a table saw, I find it cheap
insurance to make or buy more if they save my fingers. I always try to keep
fingers away from sharp edges, particularly powered sharp edges. I still
have all 10 after over 30 years as a woodworker.

Pushsticks are disposable, make them by the dozens because they will
come into contact with the spinning blade. That's what they're there
for, to get closer to the blade than any rational person would ever
allow their fingers to be.



Blog Me! http://BitchSpot.JadeDragonOnline.com

Brian Henderson wrote:
On Thu, 17 Jan 2008 12:55:28 -0500, "EXT"
wrote:

Having destroyed a number of pushsticks on a table saw, I find it cheap
insurance to make or buy more if they save my fingers. I always try to keep
fingers away from sharp edges, particularly powered sharp edges. I still
have all 10 after over 30 years as a woodworker.

Pushsticks are disposable, make them by the dozens because they will
come into contact with the spinning blade.

Right on! Make lots! It's also great practice in pattern routing,
shaping, and curved sawing to a line.

However, I like hooks and blocks much better than sticks:

http://www.bburke.com/woodworking/shopmadejigsandtools.html

Some sticks can be dangerous and provide a false sense of security in
respect to the hand's direction of travel and application of force.

For example: The standard "push stick" has the user providing force at
about a 45 degree angle to the stock travel, with the hand moving
towards the cutter and a small contact patch all the way out at the tip.
If the stock sticks, jams, starts to kick back, etc... the stick goes
away, and the hand moves directly at the cutter!

I always like to think of leaning on a door. If someone opens the door,
I'll fall in. So... I don't lean on doors. G

Leon wrote:

BUT that is if every thing goes well. If every thing goes well no
precautions would need to be observed. What happens if the board you are
running through shatters or the cutters hit an embedded nail or a knot?

My hands would move away from the blades.


The article provides pictures of thin stock.

You really need something and more than a glove between your hand the
jointer cutters should the board not remain in tact.

I think his pictures are dangerous. My hands are on the outfeed side,
moving away from the cutter. I don't know how many more times I should
type that my hands are moving away from the cutter, and are not over the
blades.

Basic safety = the natural momentum of the motion takes the flesh
towards safety, not danger.

"B A R R Y" wrote in message
...

I think his pictures are dangerous. My hands are on the outfeed side,
moving away from the cutter. I don't know how many more times I should
type that my hands are moving away from the cutter, and are not over the
blades.

Basic safety = the natural momentum of the motion takes the flesh towards
safety, not danger.

Agreed, and I do not have so much problem with your hands on the out feed
side but they are on the in feed side for a period of time.

On Jan 17, 1:06*pm, B A R R Y wrote:
Leon wrote:

BUT that is if every thing goes well. *If every thing goes well no
precautions would need to be observed. *What happens if the board you are
running through shatters or the cutters hit an embedded nail or a knot?

My hands would move away from the blades.



The article provides pictures of thin stock.

You really need something and more than a glove between your hand the
jointer cutters should the board not remain in tact.

I think his pictures are dangerous. *My hands are on the outfeed side,
moving away from the cutter. *I don't know how many more times I should
type that my hands are moving away from the cutter, and are not over the
blades.

Basic safety = the natural momentum of the motion takes the flesh
towards safety, not danger.

I am in agreement with regard to face planing on the jointer. I don't
want my hands anywhere near those cutters, so push pads are the
answer. I do wear mechanic's gloves that have rubber gripping
surfaces, but I only use gloved hands for edge jointing, not face
planing. It is amazing to me how often publications illustrate unsafe
shortcuts. The worst examples I see are on the DYI shows on
television. On occasion they actually wear safety glasses, but I
seldom see them wearing hearing protection. I saw a show recently
where they are building a log home. The "Star" was helping screen in
the porch. He was ripping a board on a contractor saw without the blad
guard when the host approached. He looked up and was talking while
ripping. I could see the board rise up and start to kick back. He just
caught it in time.

Regards,
Dave G.

Dave wrote:


It is amazing to me how often publications illustrate unsafe
shortcuts. The worst examples I see are on the DYI shows on
television.

That's why they refer to these particular shows as DYI (Do Yourself
In) shows rather than DIY (Do It Yourself)! g, d, &r
--
Alex -- Replace "nospam" with "mail" to reply by email. Checked infrequently.

Leon wrote:
"B A R R Y" wrote in message
news
Leon wrote:
IMHO this is just plain stupid.
Maybe.

I've jointed stock that way with a major difference, no effort is exerted
on the infeed side once at least 6" clears the cutterhead.

Most of the time, I use push blocks. The times I don't are when the stock
is thick and heavy.

With or without blocks, once the stock passes the blades, both of my hands
are on the outfeed side of the machine. I'm PULLING the work across the
cutterhead. If my hand slips it goes AWAY from the blades.

A side benefit to pulling stock over a jointer is that the stock is always
referenced to the outfeed surfaces, and the operator can't unintentionally
rock the board as it moves.


BUT that is if every thing goes well. If every thing goes well no
precautions would need to be observed. What happens if the board you are
running through shatters or the cutters hit an embedded nail or a knot?

The article provides pictures of thin stock.

You really need something and more than a glove between your hand the
jointer cutters should the board not remain in tact.



I don't own a jointer, and I've never
used one.

But this has me curious. Pulling stock
through makes sense after a point. But
you have to get to that point where
there is some stock on the outfeed table.

I would assume that with a piece that's
4' long, you'd push from a safe distance
until you have enough wood on the
outfeed to be able to shift your grip
and pull from there.

Would that be a correct and safe way to
do it?

--
Tanus

This is not really a sig.

http://www.home.mycybernet.net/~waugh/shop/

"Tanus" wrote in message ...

I don't own a jointer, and I've never used one.

But this has me curious. Pulling stock through makes sense after a point.
But you have to get to that point where there is some stock on the outfeed
table.

I would assume that with a piece that's 4' long, you'd push from a safe
distance until you have enough wood on the outfeed to be able to shift
your grip and pull from there.

Would that be a correct and safe way to do it?

Yes

On Jan 17, 11:33 pm, "Leon" wrote:
"Tanus" wrote in ...

I don't own a jointer, and I've never used one.

But this has me curious. Pulling stock through makes sense after a point.
But you have to get to that point where there is some stock on the outfeed
table.

I would assume that with a piece that's 4' long, you'd push from a safe
distance until you have enough wood on the outfeed to be able to shift
your grip and pull from there.

Would that be a correct and safe way to do it?

Yes

No. Your hands may be in front of the blade, but you're still pushing.

Jointing well, both edge and face, is a learned art. The machine looks
so bulky and basic but the slightest differences in technique make a
huge difference. You want to get some down pressure on the outfeed
side shortly after the material passess onto that side. For face joint
outfeed is the reference surface that controls the plane of the cut if
things are working correctly. In edge jointing, it and the fence are
equally important.

Everyone develops their own technique and the length and heft of the
material makes a difference too.

Yes, pulling can kind of be effective but the real key is consistency
in pressure and speed across the entire span of the cut.

If you switch from a push to a pull at the cost of loosing consistency
you will be able to find the wave (or worse) in the face surface.

The strangest thing for me is if you push too hard down into the table
you will taper the board, even on a perfectly configured machine. A
smooth fine touch is really needed for excellent jointing. Sharp
blades, a feel for the cut and a few hundred cuts under your belt to
find your chi.

On Jan 17, 6:19*pm, Tanus wrote:
Leon wrote:
"B A R R Y" wrote in message
news
Leon wrote:
IMHO *this is just plain stupid.
Maybe.

I've jointed stock that way with a major difference, no effort is exerted
on the infeed side once at least 6" clears the cutterhead.

Most of the time, I use push blocks. *The times I don't are when the stock
is thick and heavy.

With or without blocks, once the stock passes the blades, both of my hands
are on the outfeed side of the machine. *I'm PULLING the work across the
cutterhead. *If my hand slips it goes AWAY from the blades.

A side benefit to pulling stock over a jointer is that the stock is always
referenced to the outfeed surfaces, and the operator can't unintentionally
rock the board as it moves.

BUT that is if every thing goes well. *If every thing goes well no
precautions would need to be observed. *What happens if the board you are
running through shatters or the cutters hit an embedded nail or a knot?

The article provides pictures of thin stock.

You really need something and more than a glove between your hand the
jointer cutters should the board not remain in tact.

I don't own a jointer, and I've never
used one.

But this has me curious. Pulling stock
through makes sense after a point. But
you have to get to that point where
there is some stock on the outfeed table.

I would assume that with a piece that's
4' long, you'd push from a safe distance
until you have enough wood on the
outfeed to be able to shift your grip
and pull from there.

Would that be a correct and safe way to
do it?

--
Tanus

This is not really a sig.

http://www.home.mycybernet.net/~waugh/shop/- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

SonomaProducts.com wrote:
Jointing well, both edge and face, is a learned art. The machine looks
so bulky and basic but the slightest differences in technique make a
huge difference. You want to get some down pressure on the outfeed
side shortly after the material passess onto that side. For face joint
outfeed is the reference surface that controls the plane of the cut if
things are working correctly. In edge jointing, it and the fence are
equally important.

Everyone develops their own technique and the length and heft of the
material makes a difference too.

Yes, pulling can kind of be effective but the real key is consistency
in pressure and speed across the entire span of the cut.

If you switch from a push to a pull at the cost of loosing consistency
you will be able to find the wave (or worse) in the face surface.

The strangest thing for me is if you push too hard down into the table
you will taper the board, even on a perfectly configured machine. A
smooth fine touch is really needed for excellent jointing. Sharp
blades, a feel for the cut and a few hundred cuts under your belt to
find your chi.

On Jan 17, 6:19 pm, Tanus wrote:
Leon wrote:
"B A R R Y" wrote in message
news Leon wrote:
IMHO this is just plain stupid.
Maybe.
I've jointed stock that way with a major difference, no effort is exerted
on the infeed side once at least 6" clears the cutterhead.
Most of the time, I use push blocks. The times I don't are when the stock
is thick and heavy.
With or without blocks, once the stock passes the blades, both of my hands
are on the outfeed side of the machine. I'm PULLING the work across the
cutterhead. If my hand slips it goes AWAY from the blades.
A side benefit to pulling stock over a jointer is that the stock is always
referenced to the outfeed surfaces, and the operator can't unintentionally
rock the board as it moves.
BUT that is if every thing goes well. If every thing goes well no
precautions would need to be observed. What happens if the board you are
running through shatters or the cutters hit an embedded nail or a knot?
The article provides pictures of thin stock.
You really need something and more than a glove between your hand the
jointer cutters should the board not remain in tact.
I don't own a jointer, and I've never
used one.

But this has me curious. Pulling stock
through makes sense after a point. But
you have to get to that point where
there is some stock on the outfeed table.

I would assume that with a piece that's
4' long, you'd push from a safe distance
until you have enough wood on the
outfeed to be able to shift your grip
and pull from there.

Would that be a correct and safe way to
do it?

--
Tanus

This is not really a sig.

http://www.home.mycybernet.net/~waugh/shop/- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


Thanks. I'm getting an idea on how this
works now. It may be a tool I use in the
future, and knowing that it requires
more of a "feel" for it than other tools
is valuable.

--
Tanus

This is not really a sig.

http://www.home.mycybernet.net/~waugh/shop/

Tanus wrote:
I would assume that with a piece that's 4' long, you'd push from a safe
distance until you have enough wood on the outfeed to be able to shift
your grip and pull from there.

Would that be a correct and safe way to do it?

That's exactly what I'm talking about for bare handed or gloved face
jointing. My "short limit" is ~24". That allows my hand to be 12"
from the infeed side, and 6" from the outfeed. Shorter than that,
and I use pads.

Remember, the whole reason for skipping the pads is because certain
wood is more difficult to move with the pads. Shorter and thinner
boards are easier to begin with.

I have "danger zones" taped, painted, or marked, on all of my flesh
eaters and the sleds and jigs I use with them. For example, my jointer
has red tape on the top of the fence. If my hands will go into the red
area, I rethink the cut.

When edge jointing, I never, ever, use blocks or sticks. After ~ 8" of
stock has been cut, my right hand "pulls" the stock along the fence, and
my left is on the table, acting like a featherboard. The entire cut is
referenced to the outfeed table and fence for great accuracy, and my
hands apply no pressure that would send them towards danger in case of
unwanted adventure.

B A R R Y wrote:
....
and my hands apply no pressure that would send them towards
danger in case of unwanted adventure.

Bingo; them's the magic words. After one gets used to it, it's as
natual as writing with a pencil or riding a bike.

On Thu, 17 Jan 2008 15:12:08 GMT, "Leon"
wrote:

I just read an article by Glen D Huey of Popular Woodworking and he advises
not using push stick or pads when using ht jointer. He advises to use
rubber coated gloves.

So now you know that's a magazine that's not worth reading. Neither the
writer nor the editor ought to be working there.