My wife wanted a sink in her laundry room. OK, NP...I made lower and
upper cabinets, made and fitted the doors in my shop, all was well.

I then removed the doors, brought the cabinets inside and we hung
them. A day or so later I rehung the doors. The upper cabinet doors
didn't fit well. There are two cabinet sections, each with two doors,
each door is approximately 15" x 39". The problem is that one inside
corner of each door stood off from the face frame by 1/2" or so. That
standoff has now worsened...in some cases to more than an inch. The
cabinet is quite solid, wasn't wracked when hung.

The rails and stiles for the doors are 1 1/2" x 3/4" and were ripped
off of "whitewood" 2x4s; the panels are 1/4" birch ply. Rails/stiles
are hooked together with 1/2 x 1/4 tongues and grooves, panels set in
the groove. I've made many doors in a similar fashion before with
nary a problem.

WHAT WARPED?
There are two possibilities...the stile(s) or the plywood panels. I'm
leaning toward it being the ply. What do you think? Any way to tell
for sure?

HOW TO FIX?
1. I've thought of misting a bit of water along the groove where
the ply is and then clamping the door flat for a week or two.

2. I've thought of ripping off 3/4" along the inside stile and
then afixing a 3/4 x 1 1/2 or so strip along it so that it stands
proud of the outside door edge by 3/4". My thinking is that the 1 1/2
width would better resist effort by the ply panel to bend but I have
no idea if it would be sufficient.

Any other ideas? All are welcome, I really don't want to remake the
doors and I can't stand them as they are.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

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dadiOH wrote:
....
The rails and stiles for the doors are 1 1/2" x 3/4" and were ripped
off of "whitewood" 2x4s; the panels are 1/4" birch ply. ...
WHAT WARPED?
There are two possibilities...the stile(s) or the plywood panels. I'm
leaning toward it being the ply. What do you think? ...

I'd bet about 100% other way -- 1/4" ply isn't strong enough and is
well-dried, stable material.

The "whitewood" 2x are construction-grade lumber which is rarely dried
to anything close to really dry.

I don't see much other than making a new set of doors of stable material
being likely to be a long-term solution.

--

dpb wrote:
dadiOH wrote:
...
The rails and stiles for the doors are 1 1/2" x 3/4" and were ripped
off of "whitewood" 2x4s; the panels are 1/4" birch ply. ...
WHAT WARPED?
There are two possibilities...the stile(s) or the plywood panels. I'm
leaning toward it being the ply. What do you think? ...

I'd bet about 100% other way -- 1/4" ply isn't strong enough and is
well-dried, stable material.

The "whitewood" 2x are construction-grade lumber which is rarely dried
to anything close to really dry.

And, I'd guess it's the top and bottom rails that twisted, not the stiles.

--

Hi dadiOH

Condolences on a fine project going to he!!.

I used white wood a year ago to make some boxes for a grandchilds toy
train, and I was disgusted. It warped when it looked at it, it dented
and just plain wasn't stable. Not sure if it was moisture, or what,
but I felt like I wasted all my care and (semi-) skill.

For my next project I used aspen from a local sawmill and have been
much happier. I'd have used poplar but they didn't have any.

I'll NEVER use whitewood for anything important again.

Old Guy



On Jan 5, 7:35*am, "dadiOH" wrote:
My wife wanted a sink in her laundry room. *OK, NP...I made lower and
upper cabinets, made and fitted the doors in my shop, all was well.

I then removed the doors, brought the cabinets inside and we hung
them. *A day or so later I rehung the doors. The upper cabinet doors
didn't fit well. *There are two cabinet sections, each with two doors,
each door is approximately 15" x 39". *The problem is that one inside
corner of each door stood off from the face frame by 1/2" or so. *That
standoff has now worsened...in some cases to more than an inch. *The
cabinet is quite solid, wasn't wracked when hung.

The rails and stiles for the doors are 1 1/2" x 3/4" and were ripped
off of "whitewood" 2x4s; the panels are 1/4" birch ply. *Rails/stiles
are hooked together with 1/2 x 1/4 tongues and grooves, panels set in
the groove. *I've made many doors in a similar fashion before with
nary a problem.

WHAT WARPED?
There are two possibilities...the stile(s) or the plywood panels. *I'm
leaning toward it being the ply. *What do you think? *Any way to tell
for sure?

HOW TO FIX?
* * 1. *I've thought of misting a bit of water along the groove where
the ply is and then clamping the door flat for a week or two.

* * 2. *I've thought of ripping off 3/4" along the inside stile and
then afixing a 3/4 x 1 1/2 or so strip along it so that it stands
proud of the outside door edge by 3/4". *My thinking is that the 1 1/2
width would better resist effort by the ply panel to bend but I have
no idea if it would be sufficient.

Any other ideas? *All are welcome, I really don't want to remake the
doors and I can't stand them as they are.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it athttp://mysite.verizon.net/xico

Old Guy wrote:
Hi dadiOH

Condolences on a fine project going to he!!.

I used white wood a year ago to make some boxes for a grandchilds
toy train, and I was disgusted. It warped when it looked at it, it
dented and just plain wasn't stable. Not sure if it was moisture,
or what, but I felt like I wasted all my care and (semi-) skill.

For my next project I used aspen from a local sawmill and have been
much happier. I'd have used poplar but they didn't have any.

I'll NEVER use whitewood for anything important again.

I don't like it either. Unfortunately, it is just about the only
thing available locally, no lumber yards within an hour's drive and I
didn't want to deplete my smallish on hand supply of white oak. The
improvement stores have a (limited) supply of over priced red oak and
(sometimes) poplar but since I had used it previously for identical
purpose I went with the $$ saver

--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

"dadiOH" wrote in message
news:nILfj.236$Z61.154@trnddc07...

The rails and stiles for the doors are 1 1/2" x 3/4" and were ripped
off of "whitewood" 2x4s; the panels are 1/4" birch ply. Rails/stiles
are hooked together with 1/2 x 1/4 tongues and grooves, panels set in
the groove. I've made many doors in a similar fashion before with
nary a problem.

WHAT WARPED?
There are two possibilities...the stile(s) or the plywood panels. I'm
leaning toward it being the ply. What do you think? Any way to tell
for sure?

Yeah, it would be the construction grade material you used, the Whitewood
2x4's.


HOW TO FIX?
1. I've thought of misting a bit of water along the groove where
the ply is and then clamping the door flat for a week or two.

2. I've thought of ripping off 3/4" along the inside stile and
then afixing a 3/4 x 1 1/2 or so strip along it so that it stands
proud of the outside door edge by 3/4". My thinking is that the 1 1/2
width would better resist effort by the ply panel to bend but I have
no idea if it would be sufficient.

Any other ideas? All are welcome, I really don't want to remake the
doors and I can't stand them as they are.

If you want to do it right, I suggest rebuilding and use Poplar as a cheapo
paintable wood for the frames. Leave the construction grade lumber for
stuff that does not matter.



--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

dadiOH said:


WHAT WARPED?
There are two possibilities...the stile(s) or the plywood panels. I'm
leaning toward it being the ply. What do you think? Any way to tell
for sure?

Take them apart. The ply will spring back into shape unless it's been
a long while. Plywood is extremely resistant to warping - there is no
consistant grain structure to cause it. Your problem was in using
using construction grade wood which is not only too wet, but is
generally veneer cores which contain a lot of twisting annular grain.

You CAN use construction grade wood, but it has to be selected for cut
by looking at the ring pattern on the ends. Around here, 1 out of 20
sticks will usually contain usable WWing wood. Then it has to be dried
further before machining. I have made a lot of shop cabinets,
moldings and such out of generic 2x4s with these guidelines. The
problem then becomes "why am I spending so much time working with this
crap wood when labor is by far the largest cost factor. Availability
is the major reason for me.

HOW TO FIX?
1. I've thought of misting a bit of water along the groove where
the ply is and then clamping the door flat for a week or two.

It won't stay that way. You have now reached the wood's natural state
at household moisture levels. But due to the annular grain, it is far
more susceptable to warping with each minor seasonal moisture change.

2. I've thought of ripping off 3/4" along the inside stile and
then afixing a 3/4 x 1 1/2 or so strip along it so that it stands
proud of the outside door edge by 3/4". My thinking is that the 1 1/2
width would better resist effort by the ply panel to bend but I have
no idea if it would be sufficient.

The ply is actually resisting the frame's effort at warping further.

Any other ideas? All are welcome, I really don't want to remake the
doors and I can't stand them as they are.

Unfortunately, you have just answered your own quandry.
The only lasting fix is to remake the doors. It can be done with
matching wood, as long as you select it carefully.

Here is an example of a bench I built out of construction grade SYP
five years ago:
http://webpages.charter.net/videodoc...es/Bench1l.jpg

It lives in a sporadically heated garage shop and is still rock solid,
the top is still flat, and it is truly a tank that has withstood
pounding, welding, transmission overhauls, as well as woodworking.

http://webpages.charter.net/videodoc...es/Bench21.jpg

Moldings:
http://webpages.charter.net/videodoc...abinets_3l.jpg

Anyway, good luck!


Greg G.

Greg G. wrote:
dadiOH said:


WHAT WARPED?
There are two possibilities...the stile(s) or the plywood panels.
I'm leaning toward it being the ply. What do you think? Any way
to tell for sure?

Take them apart.

Can't
____________

Plywood is extremely resistant to warping -
there is no consistant grain structure to cause it.

One would think so but in my experience it frequently wants to wind.
Usually NP as it is either screwed/nailed/glued to something or is
contained within stout lumber pieces.
_________________

Your problem
was in using using construction grade wood which is not only too
wet, but is generally veneer cores which contain a lot of twisting
annular grain.

You lost me here with "veneer cores". You're talking about the ply?
I used to use a lot of lumber core ply but have never seen it where I
live now and have never even heard of it in 1/4" ply. The ply I used
was probably BC, lower limits of each, never heard of other ply
designations other than core, faces, glue. The whitewood was #2
common which - around here at least - is AKA "construction grade".
_________________

HOW TO FIX?
1. I've thought of misting a bit of water along the groove
where the ply is and then clamping the door flat for a week or two.

It won't stay that way. You have now reached the wood's natural
state at household moisture levels. But due to the annular grain,
it is far more susceptable to warping with each minor seasonal
moisture change.

I don't think so either. But I still think it is the ply bending, not
the frame. All lumber frame elements are still nice and straight.
The rails *have* to be twisted in order for the door to warp as
described but that twist is too little to see with a straight edge.
________________

Anyway, good luck!

Thanks

--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

dadiOH said:

Greg G. wrote:

Your problem
was in using using construction grade wood which is not only too
wet, but is generally veneer cores which contain a lot of twisting
annular grain.

You lost me here with "veneer cores". You're talking about the ply?

Veneer cores are the wood left over when peeling a tree for veneer
which is then used in plywood. If you will note at your local lumber
store, most of the 2x4s are from at or near the center of the tree.


Greg G.

Greg G. wrote:
dadiOH said:

Greg G. wrote:

Your problem
was in using using construction grade wood which is not only too
wet, but is generally veneer cores which contain a lot of twisting
annular grain.

You lost me here with "veneer cores". You're talking about the
ply?

Veneer cores are the wood left over when peeling a tree for veneer
which is then used in plywood. If you will note at your local
lumber store, most of the 2x4s are from at or near the center of
the tree.


Greg G.

OK, gotcha. Thanks.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico