I just returned from this year's show in San Mateo, CA and am completely
disappointed. I've gone to this show for many years and always looked
forward to a wide range of demonstrations and interesting deals. Last
year the show was obviously much smaller than in the past and this year
it was almost comatose. What once overfilled an exhibit hall was now so
small that much of the hall was blocked off with curtains. Almost none
of the large machines where there. Delta, Bosch, Jet, Powermatic,
Dewalt, Makita and others who always had a strong presence in the past
were nowhere to be found. Not even Leigh was there to do their jig
demos. The biggest displays were a few walls filled with cheap Chinese
router bits.

The $7 parking plus $9 show entrance fee was a complete rip-off for
chance to look over the wares of a few dozen exhibitors. I can't
believe I paid that much money to have the privilege of buying a few
rolls of sandpaper and some glue. For $9 my ticket lets me get in all
three days! What good is that when it took less than two hours to get
a good look at everything there. It is pretty sad when a trip to a
large Home Depot yields more interesting stuff to look at than a
Woodworking Show does. At least Home Depot and other retailers don't
charge me a fee to walk in the front door.

Apparently the show has gone through a change of owners. Maybe it will
improve, but if you do go, don't get your hopes up. Personally I hope
they get their act together as I really enjoyed going in the past and
have taken some useful classes at those shows, but it sure isn't even a
shadow of what it once was.

Yes, the show is under new management. There was mention of this
by Ellis Wallentine, the host of WoodCentral.com. If I recall
correctly,
he knows and has worked with the new person and holds him in high
regard. The hope is the show under new management (ownership)
would start to turn things around. I've gotten to know several of
the demonstrators and the last show I was at they were all pretty
unhappy with the old management/owners. Several said they were
having their worst year ever - and the schedule was crazy, jumping
back and forth acrossed the country, shows scheduled 100 miles
apart and one week apart, space fees climbing while advertising
- and attendance was dropping. They WERE NOT happy campers
by any means.

The hope is that the new guy, who is apparently a woodworker
and has written for various woodworking magazines, will turn
things around. But it may get worse while the changes get put
in place.

So I'm going to go Saturday AND Sunday. Saturday I'll take the
Miata so I don't make any large impulse buys (always good to
Sleep On It first when it comes to laying out a chunk of change,
though I haven't regretted getting the Festool DOMINO on the
way out the door on the last day of the show). Then, if I need
to, I'll go up in the trusty old, haul all kinds of stuff, Aerostar.

Now some questions:

Was Glenn Drake's Tite-Mark there?

How about Woodturners?

Micro-Fence show up?

Lee Valley?

Laguna Tools? They're shown as doing 3 Bandsaw Clinics each day.
Was it Torben doing the demos?

What about Marc Sommerfield's cabinet making demos?

Mesa Design there with their magnetic featherboards?

Any Festool stuff out and/or demonstrated?

Was the wood burning/pyrography guy there demonstrating
Razer pens etc.?

Anyone selling shellac flakes?

Were the veneer packet folks there?

Who the hell is "3D Saw Blades Sales"?

Was Forrest there?

charlie b

A couple of years ago, I went with a freind as we have done
every year. At that time we had a chance to talk to someone who
worked for the show. He told us that at that time the owners of the
show and one of the retailers (who happened to be the biggest of
the shows) had parted ways. This made the show loose several of
the big booths. Since then a bunch have jumped ship. I'll be going
in Febuary, but my freind and I have already start talking about
canceling.
Lou

I went to several, but the last one I went was in 1999. I took a day
vacation to go to the big Woodworker's Show in Cleveland, paid $10 to
park, bought nothing, and was disappointed. I should have gone
fishing that day.

I will answer as best I can from memory. The ones I note that I didn't
see does not for sure mean they were not there.



Was Glenn Drake's Tite-Mark there?

Didn't see.


How about Woodturners?

Didn't see.


Micro-Fence show up?

I think so, but it might have been another gaggle of fences company.



Lee Valley?

Yes, they had one of the nicer booths.


Laguna Tools? They're shown as doing 3 Bandsaw Clinics each day.
Was it Torben doing the demos?

Laguna was there with a smaller display than in years gone by. I didn't
stay for a clinic, so I'm not sure who might have been doing them.



What about Marc Sommerfield's cabinet making demos?

I saw the sign but didn't see a demo.


Mesa Design there with their magnetic featherboards?


Didn't see.

Any Festool stuff out and/or demonstrated?

They had a booth. A bit pricey for my taste. I didn't notice them
doing any demos, but I wasn't in the market. I'm waiting for someone
bringing a domino-like system down to near biscuit joinery machine prices.


Was the wood burning/pyrography guy there demonstrating
Razer pens etc.?

Didn't see.



Anyone selling shellac flakes?

Didn't see.



Were the veneer packet folks there?

I'm pretty sure they were not there as I've bought from them before and
was looking for them.


Who the hell is "3D Saw Blades Sales"?

Probably one of the vendors with truck loads of Chinese cutting tools.
I saw more Chinese saw blades, drill bits and router bits than I ever
want to see in one place again. I can go to Harbor Freight if I'm
looking for the really cheap junk.


Was Forrest there?

Yes, they had a small booth doing their typical demo.

John

charlieb wrote:
Yes, the show is under new management. There was mention of this
by Ellis Wallentine, the host of WoodCentral.com. If I recall
correctly,
he knows and has worked with the new person and holds him in high
regard.

Oddly enough, the "official" web page doesn't work. I've tried for two
days to get into http://www.thewoodworkingshows.com/ and get a server
not found message.

They handed out flyers at the show encouraging people to go to the
website and gave an email address for feedback. My email bounced and
the website is stone cold dead.

On Nov 10, 12:24 am, charlieb wrote:
Yes, the show is under new management. There was mention of this
by Ellis Wallentine, the host of WoodCentral.com. If I recall
correctly,
he knows and has worked with the new person and holds him in high
regard. The hope is the show under new management (ownership)
would start to turn things around. I've gotten to know several of
the demonstrators and the last show I was at they were all pretty
unhappy with the old management/owners. Several said they were
having their worst year ever - and the schedule was crazy, jumping
back and forth acrossed the country, shows scheduled 100 miles
apart and one week apart, space fees climbing while advertising
- and attendance was dropping. They WERE NOT happy campers
by any means.

The hope is that the new guy, who is apparently a woodworker
and has written for various woodworking magazines, will turn
things around. But it may get worse while the changes get put
in place.

So I'm going to go Saturday AND Sunday. Saturday I'll take the
Miata so I don't make any large impulse buys (always good to
Sleep On It first when it comes to laying out a chunk of change,
though I haven't regretted getting the Festool DOMINO on the
way out the door on the last day of the show). Then, if I need
to, I'll go up in the trusty old, haul all kinds of stuff, Aerostar.

Now some questions:

Was Glenn Drake's Tite-Mark there?

No I think he was at Japan Woodworker sales tax free event on Saturday

How about Woodturners?

No

Micro-Fence show up?

Yes

Lee Valley?

Yes they had a really nice booth.

Laguna Tools? They're shown as doing 3 Bandsaw Clinics each day.

Yes a fairly large booth.

Was it Torben doing the demos?

What about Marc Sommerfield's cabinet making demos?

Yes it was large booth and Marc was doing great demos as always.

Mesa Design there with their magnetic featherboards?

Dont think so.

Any Festool stuff out and/or demonstrated?

Yes and they had a really good representative

Was the wood burning/pyrography guy there demonstrating
Razer pens etc.?

Dont recall.


Anyone selling shellac flakes?

Dont think so.

Were the veneer packet folks there?

Dont think so

Who the hell is "3D Saw Blades Sales"?

Dont know

Was Forrest there?

Yes and had some really good prices (79.95 for Forrest II)

charlie b

On Sat, 10 Nov 2007 22:21:36 GMT, Phisherman wrote:

I went to several, but the last one I went was in 1999. I took a day
vacation to go to the big Woodworker's Show in Cleveland, paid $10 to
park, bought nothing, and was disappointed. I should have gone
fishing that day.

Same here. Last show I went to was probably 2003, spent too much to
park and get in, bought nothing, saw nothing I couldn't see online for
free, said the hell with it and never went back again.

After going to the San Mateo show both Saturday afternoon and
most of today (Sunday), here are some of my observations and
comments about the show.

Yes, the show was a lot smaller than even the one here 6 months
ago.

No Mike of Mesa Design (the magnetic featherboards) doing his
Everything You SHOULD NOT DO When Ripping On A Table Saw
high wire, daredevil act. (People in the "audience" who have never
experienced or never saw a kickback, nor even heard the word
"kickback" looking on wondering what MIke is selling and seeming
a bit confused and bored while the "rest of us" are running for
cover or finding a big dude to hide behind.)

No Wood Turners Supply or the Razer pyrography and carver
guy.

No JoinTech booth but I did see an Incra.

I didn't see Leigh with their DT jigs and FMT jig - but did talk
with a guy on the way out who bought a 24" Leigh DT Jig.

Didn't see any books, videos and DVD booths,

Ridgid was there but no
Delta
Dewalt
Porter Cable
General
etc.

No Rockler or WoodCraft booth and no booth for
The Saw Dust Shop or CB Tools (local tools and supplies
outfits)

Festool was there with a small corner booth, with all
their stuff - but no demos and damn few samples.
I talked to two guys attending the show about the
DOMINO, did a quick tour of the DOMINO with them
at the Festool booth, gave them the url to the
DOMINO stuff on my WWing site and wandered on.
Ran into both of them later. Both had bought the
DOMINO full package. Stopped by the both later
and helped a guy who'd brought his wife get their
Plunge Saw (TS55?) after I asked the Festool
guy to turn on the Dust Extractor to demonstrate
how quiet it is and pointed out the variable vac
force feature. After she listened to the speal
about the dust extractor - quiet, variable suction,
wet/dry, double filtering and so on - she noted
it was a LOT quieter than her vacuum cleaner,
and had a LOT more suction. When she saw the
accessories for "vacuum cleaner" mode she was
sold - AND - if he got the saw (and guide) it was
on the condition that she get to use the "dust
extractor". THAT put a smile on his face. I
left my silver bullet, mounted up and rode off
with with a parting Hi Ho Silver! - AWAY!

Annie was doing her Jool Tool demo, and as usual
guys were looking at her and not at what she was
sharpening - or what she was saying. She's a pretty
lady and it's understandable that I initially thought
she was one of those pretty ladies at the car shows
who stand around and just look attractive. Passed
up her demo at two different shows before actually
stopping to pay attention to what she was saying
and what she was doing. Having gotten into turning,
and not having a fast easy way to sharpen curved
edges and some of the "unusual" grinds common to
bowl gouges and spindle gouges, I wanted a Jool Tool.
She was pretty busy so I talked with her kids 'til
things quieted down and she had some time to make
out my order. Today she had me work on an Ellsworth type
grind bow gouge and show that this thing does a great job
AND is easy as hell to use. I think I persuaded at least
two guys to get a Jool Tool - AND picked up a few sharp-
ening tips from Annie. (she really should wear a MuMu
and wear curlers in her hair so guys will listen to
what she's saying, and look at what she's doing.

Marc Sommerfeld did almost continuous Making Kitchen
Cabinets demo, sometimes to just two people. The guy's
a demonstrator work horse and has somehow kept his
enthusiasm for cabinet building.

The inventor of the Micro-Fence System was there and
pretty discouraged with the turn out and his sales. I
bought something for my "system" and happened to have
a hundred dollar bill on me. The total came to $102 and
change so it perked him up just a little bit. He noted as
he wrote the receipt that this was his EIGHTH sale - of
the entire 3 day show. He's decided to give up on the
show and go back to making furniture - the show being
about 50% of his Micro-Fence business. He'll keep his
web and mail order Micro-Fence business up, but not
spend time and energy sitting alone in a booth at a
woodworking show. That's a real pity because being able
to do a Hands On with the Micro-Fence really makes you
appreciate this precision tool system.

The Lee Valley / Veritas booth was big and well stocked
with plenty of knowledgeable people to help you - but
nothing you could purchase and take with you. Now I get
to wait for their pair of little Squirrel-Tail Plam Planes
(they're so CUTE!) and their cam clamp bench hold down
thing. Played with a couple of their Low Angle planes
and there's something to all the hype. Leave if to Veritas
to through away all the "rules" and actually improve on
some of the old Tried and True designs (witness their
shoulder planes - subtle changes - but significant only
when you've used one - AFTER using a Tried & True
version (I had a Clifton before getting the Veritas
"medium" shoulder plane. The Clifton now rests queitly
and seldom used in the tool cabinet)

And I must admit I spent some time drooling at the
Lie Nielsen booth - and making some see through
curlies off a gnarly piece of highly figured maple.
While I appreciate the look, quality and quality of
cut Lie Nielsen is famous for, Veritas equivalents
do just as good a job - for my money - and for an
appreciably less amount of my money. Your mileage
(and bank account) may vary.

I learned that WoodLine and the outfit that drills holes
in files have bought the show and the hand over has
gone - well let's just say "less than smoothly" - witness
the Woodworkingshow site being down, glitch with the
e-mail list and late show reminder Post Cards (mine
came two or three days before the show). But the
show has been on the decline for the last two years
at least and the new owners have a daunting task
ahead of them - sort of like trying to turn an oil
tanker around. I'm going to give them a couple more
shows and see what happens. I'd hate to lose the
Twice A Year Woodworking Show - with new things
to see and try, stuff to lust after - and the opportunity
to talk woodworking with other woodworkers I'm not
apt to encounter except at The Show.

SO - if it isn't a REALLY BIG hassle for you - give
'em another chance or two before tossing in the
towel. Internet shopping is often cheaper and easier
- for sure - but Hands On and getting to ask questions,
exchange ideas with vendors and show attendees
can't be done from a keyboard. Face To Face is
what made this country's business go. Somehow
htting "send" just ain't the same as a handshake
and a smile - from both parties in the transaction.

charlie b

charlieb wrote:
......

I learned that WoodLine and the outfit that drills holes
in files have bought the show and the hand over has
gone - well let's just say "less than smoothly" - witness
the Woodworkingshow site being down, glitch with the
e-mail list and late show reminder Post Cards (mine
came two or three days before the show). But the
show has been on the decline for the last two years
at least and the new owners have a daunting task
ahead of them - sort of like trying to turn an oil
tanker around.

.....

SO - if it isn't a REALLY BIG hassle for you - give
'em another chance or two before tossing in the
towel.


I really hope they pull it back together, but from what I saw it was a
terrible disappointment. Handing out a flyer to everyone at the
entrance asking for feedback and then having the email address on said
flyer be dead is Not Good!

If they are going to bring this thing back from the dead they need to
offer free entrance fees the next time around along with a plea to give
'em one more try. Their mailing list must be fool of people who used
to go but don't plan to go again.

John

Unfortunatly, we here in central America (Oklahoma) don't seem to get
woodworking shows. I've never even seen one advertised down in the DFW
area. I might make a weekend trip down to a sibling's house if I heard of
one there. What I've heard described on this newsgroup reminds me I've
seen as a trend in gun shows. For a while they're great - good prices,
lots of vendors, lots of stuff to go through. Then the tide yurns and the
junk dealers come out. The shows fill up with people wanting the sky for
trash. Stalls are full of people selling beanie babies, perfume and pens
(this is a *gun* show!). Attendance drops off to nothing then the
organizers turn over mgmt and start over.

"Smaug Ichorfang" wrote:

Then the tide yurns and the
junk dealers come out. The shows fill up with people wanting the sky for
trash. Stalls are full of people selling beanie babies, perfume and pens


What?

Nobody selling Jerky or antifog sheep dip for your eye glasses.

Standard items at the boat shows these days.

Lew

On Nov 9, 10:22 pm, John Horner wrote:

When I go to those Home Shows, Bat Shows and such, I look for the
Outdoor Exhibit area. Often one can access that area at no charge and
get into the rest of the exhibit (indoor area) by "returning." All
these "shows" are advertising. With or without the demonstrations. I
even did this in the Jamestown thing in VA on at least two different
occasions by going in the Exit instead of the entrance - never paid a
dime.

On Sat, 10 Nov 2007 03:22:41 GMT, John Horner wrote:
I just returned from this year's show in San Mateo, CA and am completely
disappointed.

I spent this past weekend at the "WoodWorks!" show in York PA. I went
primarily for a few of the seminars. You see, I'm relatively new to
this, and I am thinking about taking some real classes. I have not had
any formal training in woodworking aside from one year of "wood shop" in
high school 40 years ago. I figured that seeing the likes of Garrett
Hack teach a seminar would help me decide what to do.

The display area was tiny, and _very_ underpopulated relative to what
I'd seen at this show two years ago when it was in Ft. Washington PA. In
York, except for the laser engraving folks, none of the large tool
manufacturers were present. The only catalog/mail order retailer of note
present was Lee Valley. Frank Klausz was there showing how he makes
dovetails by hand, and mouldings using custom built wooden planes. There
was one local brick & mortar machinery store represented, and it looked
like they were doing a brisk business selling Jet and Powermatic stuff.
One local lumber dealer was represented, and I took advantage of the
opportunity to get some ebony and holly for inlays. The ladder, gutter
guard, and bath refitting folks were there, but to me, they don't really
have a place in a woodworking show. At any rate, I found the small size
of the show to be depressing; I can't imagine it can sustain itself
(financially) this way.

In the past, I've found both "WoodWorks!" and "The Woodworking Shows" to
be a great place to see tools and machinery up close. All of my
stationary machinery purchase decisions were made after seeing the
machines at one of these shows. But in general, both seem to have been
shrinking. The "Woodworking Shows" version is due in Somerset NJ in
February. Last February it was still a very nice show. My fingers are
crossed. I'd be very disappointed if these shows shut down.

--
Art Greenberg
artg at eclipse dot net

In article ,
says...
I went to several, but the last one I went was in 1999. I took a day
vacation to go to the big Woodworker's Show in Cleveland, paid $10 to
park, bought nothing, and was disappointed. I should have gone
fishing that day.

The woodworking show in Portland, Or., a while back, was the worst I
have ever seen, less than half its usual size, and not even worth the
price of what it cost to park the car.

I was told, on what I think is pretty reliable authority, that the
owners of the show just ran it to the ground, but the new owners are
bringing it back to what it was. Obviously I don't want to name my
source, but I think it is good information, for what it is worth.

I was at the same show and wasn't too happy with the size. If I had the
funds I would have pick up a sawdust collector ( I need one pretty bad)

"Art Greenberg" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 10 Nov 2007 03:22:41 GMT, John Horner wrote:
I just returned from this year's show in San Mateo, CA and am completely
disappointed.

I spent this past weekend at the "WoodWorks!" show in York PA. I went
primarily for a few of the seminars. You see, I'm relatively new to
this, and I am thinking about taking some real classes. I have not had
any formal training in woodworking aside from one year of "wood shop" in
high school 40 years ago. I figured that seeing the likes of Garrett
Hack teach a seminar would help me decide what to do.

The display area was tiny, and _very_ underpopulated relative to what
I'd seen at this show two years ago when it was in Ft. Washington PA. In
York, except for the laser engraving folks, none of the large tool
manufacturers were present. The only catalog/mail order retailer of note
present was Lee Valley. Frank Klausz was there showing how he makes
dovetails by hand, and mouldings using custom built wooden planes. There
was one local brick & mortar machinery store represented, and it looked
like they were doing a brisk business selling Jet and Powermatic stuff.
One local lumber dealer was represented, and I took advantage of the
opportunity to get some ebony and holly for inlays. The ladder, gutter
guard, and bath refitting folks were there, but to me, they don't really
have a place in a woodworking show. At any rate, I found the small size
of the show to be depressing; I can't imagine it can sustain itself
(financially) this way.

In the past, I've found both "WoodWorks!" and "The Woodworking Shows" to
be a great place to see tools and machinery up close. All of my
stationary machinery purchase decisions were made after seeing the
machines at one of these shows. But in general, both seem to have been
shrinking. The "Woodworking Shows" version is due in Somerset NJ in
February. Last February it was still a very nice show. My fingers are
crossed. I'd be very disappointed if these shows shut down.

--
Art Greenberg
artg at eclipse dot net

On Sat, 10 Nov 2007 03:22:41 GMT, John Horner
wrote:

I just returned from this year's show in San Mateo, CA and am completely
disappointed.
-snip-

Went in March to Chantilly show. Some recollections:

The good:
got married so got in for $3 (divorced just inside the gate) .
free parking
got a Great! deal on the Makita Li-Ion set (LXT600), plus extra
battery, plus I got them to throw in a nifty florescent (ML183?)
flashlight (and hat).

The bad:
did not find any of the specific items I went for (nevertheless, spent
too much on stuff I didn't know I needed ;-)
yes, the number of vendors is diminishing each year. The shows are a
far, far cry from those of ~6-7 years ago.
there were only 2 large tool vendors (Delta and Steel City)
lots of vendors didn't have stuff on hand (though free shipping was
offered)
many fewer demos.
many fewer smaller vendors.


Since it's a 50 mile drive to either Baltimore or Chantilly, and I'm
hearing a lot of negatives, it remains to be seen whether I succumb to
temptation this time around.

Renata

"noreaster" noreaster1athotmaildotcom wrote in
t:

I was at the same show and wasn't too happy with the size. If I had
the funds I would have pick up a sawdust collector ( I need one pretty
bad)


Well, brooms only cost a few dollars. ;-)

Puckdropper
--
Wise is the man who attempts to answer his question before asking it.

To email me directly, send a message to puckdropper (at) fastmail.fm