dpb wrote:
J. Clarke wrote:
dpb wrote:
J. Clarke wrote:
David Starr wrote:
...
pull out the Allen wrenches and adjust my RAS maybe once a year,
when
the square tells me I have a problem.
Cutting square isn't so much an issue. It's cutting angles and
then
returning to square that gets to be problematical.
That again is a function of quality -- no problem w/ mine.

So how much would one of these wonders that you have cost today?

Don't know--haven't looked recently. New, out-of-the-box, probably
$2-3k. But, I bought this at auction 20+ years ago for about $250.
It did take adding a 3-phase converter for another $150 so overall I
have something like $500 in it...

However, one can almost always find them for essentially throwaway
prices if looking seriously because too many uninformed have been
given such propaganda as is bandied about here so they have become
unpopular.

Of course, like anything else the "get what you pay for" mantra
holds;
the cheap Craftsmans and some of the small DeWalts and similar
were/are simply too lightly built and deserve their reputation.

Again, as I told somebody else banging on RAS, they're two different
tools for differing purposes. I'm not denigrating the SCMS for its
place; simply standing up for the RAS in its place.

What do you see as "its place"?

--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

J. Clarke wrote:
dpb wrote:
J. Clarke wrote:
dpb wrote:
J. Clarke wrote:
David Starr wrote:
...
pull out the Allen wrenches and adjust my RAS maybe once a year,
when
the square tells me I have a problem.
Cutting square isn't so much an issue. It's cutting angles and
then
returning to square that gets to be problematical.
That again is a function of quality -- no problem w/ mine.
So how much would one of these wonders that you have cost today?

Don't know--haven't looked recently. New, out-of-the-box, probably
$2-3k. But, I bought this at auction 20+ years ago for about $250.
It did take adding a 3-phase converter for another $150 so overall I
have something like $500 in it...

However, one can almost always find them for essentially throwaway
prices if looking seriously because too many uninformed have been
given such propaganda as is bandied about here so they have become
unpopular.

Of course, like anything else the "get what you pay for" mantra
holds;
the cheap Craftsmans and some of the small DeWalts and similar
were/are simply too lightly built and deserve their reputation.

Again, as I told somebody else banging on RAS, they're two different
tools for differing purposes. I'm not denigrating the SCMS for its
place; simply standing up for the RAS in its place.

What do you see as "its place"?

It sits in its dedicated long bench awaiting its calling when required
-- just like the cabinet saw, the miter saw in its bench, the jointer,
the shaper, the planer, ... All/any can serve in a pinch to do some of
the tasks of the others--which is most convenient/best is dependent on
the size of the work and the specific task at hand.

For the most part, the RAS is the "rough/heavy work" guy, of course;
now. However, for the first 5 years or so, it was the _only_ stationary
power tool and it served for all of the above on everything I did. The
jointer was the second, and those two served for almost another five.
At that point, I began to have sufficient resources to expand, adding
the planer and shaper next, ...

--

dpb wrote:
J. Clarke wrote:
....

What do you see as "its place"?

....
...it was the _only_ stationary power tool ...

I'll add that if I were to start over again, I'd go at it the same way
-- the heavily-built 12" or larger RAS would be the first thing I would
buy, and build as long a worksurface bench for it to sit in as I had
room for.

The only difference in progression now vs then would probably be the
addition of a heavy plunge router as early on as could--back then was
before their time...

--

dpb wrote:
J. Clarke wrote:
dpb wrote:
J. Clarke wrote:
dpb wrote:
J. Clarke wrote:
David Starr wrote:
...
pull out the Allen wrenches and adjust my RAS maybe once a
year,
when
the square tells me I have a problem.
Cutting square isn't so much an issue. It's cutting angles and
then
returning to square that gets to be problematical.
That again is a function of quality -- no problem w/ mine.
So how much would one of these wonders that you have cost today?

Don't know--haven't looked recently. New, out-of-the-box,
probably
$2-3k. But, I bought this at auction 20+ years ago for about
$250.
It did take adding a 3-phase converter for another $150 so overall
I
have something like $500 in it...

However, one can almost always find them for essentially throwaway
prices if looking seriously because too many uninformed have been
given such propaganda as is bandied about here so they have become
unpopular.

Of course, like anything else the "get what you pay for" mantra
holds;
the cheap Craftsmans and some of the small DeWalts and similar
were/are simply too lightly built and deserve their reputation.

Again, as I told somebody else banging on RAS, they're two
different
tools for differing purposes. I'm not denigrating the SCMS for
its
place; simply standing up for the RAS in its place.

What do you see as "its place"?

It sits in its dedicated long bench awaiting its calling when
required
-- just like the cabinet saw, the miter saw in its bench, the
jointer,
the shaper, the planer, ... All/any can serve in a pinch to do some
of the tasks of the others--which is most convenient/best is
dependent on the size of the work and the specific task at hand.

For the most part, the RAS is the "rough/heavy work" guy, of course;
now. However, for the first 5 years or so, it was the _only_
stationary power tool and it served for all of the above on
everything I did. The jointer was the second, and those two served
for almost another five. At that point, I began to have sufficient
resources to expand, adding the planer and shaper next, ...

Why do you have a miter saw if you have an RAS that adjusts precisely
and stays in tune?

--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

mac davis wrote:
On Mon, 5 Nov 2007 10:12:03 -0500, "J. Clarke"
wrote:

dpb wrote:
J. Clarke wrote:
...

While the radial saw will do any cut that a SCMS will do, the
SCMS,
if it's a good one, is a lot less finicky about tuning.

And the same could be said simply reversing the two...

Not really. A radial arm saw has more degrees of freedom and a
larger range of motion, hence more attention to alignment is
required. That's the price you pay to have a tool with greater
capability.

--
I hear that... When I was living in the states and my shop was the
neighborhood gathering spot, I'd always catch someone leaning on the
RAS table... there goes the tuning again.. *sigh*

Yeah, that's one thing that's bugged me about mine--the table being
held in alignment by friction. IOne of these days I've got to do
something about that.


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

"David Starr" wrote in message
...
Max wrote:
"David Starr" wrote

Finicky? A good RAS (in my case a second hand 1960's Craftsman) stays
in alignment for a long long time. I slap a square on the occasional
fresh cut just to be sure the tool is still cutting square, but I only
pull out the Allen wrenches and adjust my RAS maybe once a year, when
the square tells me I have a problem.

David Starr

My Craftsman RAS is about the same age. I check it any time I'm starting
on an important project but my experience is that it only needs tweaking
about every 2 years.
I should add, though, that I only use it for 90 degree cuts.

Max
Surely the great majority of my cuts are plain crosscuts, I don't do
all that many miters. Last picture frame I cut on it was many years ago.
But I can set the tool to rip, or set the blade horizontal for grooving or
molding head work, and have the autostops get the tool back to crosscut
position and cutting square again.
And yeah, I too put a square on a test cut before cutting that nice
fresh wood for that new project. Measure twice, cut once....

Strictly crosscuts for my RAS. I have a shaper for molding and a router
table for grooving.
I will soon have a SCMS for ......................miters.
I once used my RAS for ripping and my immediate thought was......... only in
an emergency. I don't have an opinion as to whether it's dangerous or not.
it's just that there are other easier ways.
I would rather mount a circular saw underneath a table and clamp a guide for
ripping. As a matter of fact that's what I did before the purchase of a
table saw.

Max

J. Clarke wrote:
dpb wrote:
J. Clarke wrote:
dpb wrote:
J. Clarke wrote:
dpb wrote:
J. Clarke wrote:
David Starr wrote:
...
pull out the Allen wrenches and adjust my RAS maybe once a
year,
when
the square tells me I have a problem.
Cutting square isn't so much an issue. It's cutting angles and
then
returning to square that gets to be problematical.
That again is a function of quality -- no problem w/ mine.
So how much would one of these wonders that you have cost today?

Don't know--haven't looked recently. New, out-of-the-box,
probably
$2-3k. But, I bought this at auction 20+ years ago for about
$250.
It did take adding a 3-phase converter for another $150 so overall
I
have something like $500 in it...

However, one can almost always find them for essentially throwaway
prices if looking seriously because too many uninformed have been
given such propaganda as is bandied about here so they have become
unpopular.

Of course, like anything else the "get what you pay for" mantra
holds;
the cheap Craftsmans and some of the small DeWalts and similar
were/are simply too lightly built and deserve their reputation.

Again, as I told somebody else banging on RAS, they're two
different
tools for differing purposes. I'm not denigrating the SCMS for
its
place; simply standing up for the RAS in its place.
What do you see as "its place"?
It sits in its dedicated long bench awaiting its calling when
required
-- just like the cabinet saw, the miter saw in its bench, the
jointer,
the shaper, the planer, ... All/any can serve in a pinch to do some
of the tasks of the others--which is most convenient/best is
dependent on the size of the work and the specific task at hand.

For the most part, the RAS is the "rough/heavy work" guy, of course;
now. However, for the first 5 years or so, it was the _only_
stationary power tool and it served for all of the above on
everything I did. The jointer was the second, and those two served
for almost another five. At that point, I began to have sufficient
resources to expand, adding the planer and shaper next, ...

Why do you have a miter saw if you have an RAS that adjusts precisely
and stays in tune?

To upset you, apparently...

If you can't understand specialty usage, then I don't know I can explain it.

I actually bought the miter saw when doing interior trimwork so I could
set it up on remote job sites. Having once gotten it, could see no
reason not to keep it.

Again I'll reiterate -- if one is pressed for space or doesn't ever do
large, heavy work and has other ways to accomplish their objectives,
sure one can do without the RAS. Same can be said for any other
tool--the 18th century masters and earlier did without any of it and
managed somehow...

At this point I'm done. There are reasons for both -- whether any
particular person/shop has justifiable reasons is up to them.

--

dpb wrote:
J. Clarke wrote:
dpb wrote:
....
So how much would one of these wonders that you have cost today?

Don't know--... New, out-of-the-box, probably $2-3k. ...

Should have known I'd be living in the past...

New looks like about $5k for nearest to what I have that is currently
being manufactured...

Last auction I went to about two/three years ago now, however, the same
saw as I have went for roughly $750 iirc at a surplus auction of stuff
from several government facilities. I believe this saw came from a Navy
facility --

I went because of the old Oliver 24" jointer, but the auction was in TN
and had only that one weekend to remove items from the site and didn't
have enough of a vehicle w/ me to be able to move it. Being 1100 miles,
it was essentially impossible to get to KS and back in time to get
it...the killer is it sold for $150. Needed new bearings, motor, and
some other work, but was complete w/ fence, etc., ...

--


--

dpb wrote:
dpb wrote:
J. Clarke wrote:
dpb wrote:
...
So how much would one of these wonders that you have cost today?

Don't know--... New, out-of-the-box, probably $2-3k. ...

Should have known I'd be living in the past...

New looks like about $5k for nearest to what I have that is currently
being manufactured...
....

And, just to flog a dead horse, curiousity got to me---there are at
least two similar machines on eBay currently although one is 12" rather
than 14" that were at $200 current bid when I looked. Both single-phase
which is somewhat unusual but probably more convenient for most...

--

On Tue, 6 Nov 2007 14:23:05 -0500, "J. Clarke" wrote:

I hear that... When I was living in the states and my shop was the
neighborhood gathering spot, I'd always catch someone leaning on the
RAS table... there goes the tuning again.. *sigh*

Yeah, that's one thing that's bugged me about mine--the table being
held in alignment by friction. IOne of these days I've got to do
something about that.


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

I think I'm about to... lol

A friend talked me into NOT selling the RAS and is drawing up plans for a new
table and fence that will have solid, allen screw adjustable, supports and
things.. Don't know the specifics, but sounds promising..
He said it would be "infinitely adjustable" and keep in tune..
I guess now I'm going to have take the covers off and clean/adjust/oil the
rollers on the arm..

It might also help that everything but the lathes and band saw are out of the
shop and in the carport now, so less chance of visitors leaning or leaving
coffee rings on it..


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing