I'm making a simple little low table/bench for my deck, and I'm trying to
toe screw the 2x4 side rails to very heavy 4x4 legs (just leftover cedar
from my deck....I wanted a "heavy" look). I'm toe screwing from the inside
to hopefully hide the screws entirely.

To position and countersink the screws I've been (starting with a wide bit)
drilling at 90 degrees for a quick 1/4" depth to give me a place to hold the
bit, and then redrilling that hole at 45 degrees for another quick 1/4" to
make a 45 degree hole ready for the smaller bore drilling and then the
screw.

It always seems that this is a harsh way to treat the wood....no matter how
careful I am, the bit at 45 degrees likes to much up the grain. Now this is
hidden anyway, but...is there another way to "seat" a 45 degree toe screw?

Jeepers I hope I explained this well enough.

"Thomas G. Marshall" . com
wrote in message news:ZZFri.1088$Uu4.84@trndny04...

I'm making a simple little low table/bench for my deck, and I'm trying to
toe screw the 2x4 side rails to very heavy 4x4 legs (just leftover cedar
from my deck....I wanted a "heavy" look). I'm toe screwing from the
inside to hopefully hide the screws entirely.

To position and countersink the screws I've been (starting with a wide
bit) drilling at 90 degrees for a quick 1/4" depth to give me a place to
hold the bit, and then redrilling that hole at 45 degrees for another
quick 1/4" to make a 45 degree hole ready for the smaller bore drilling
and then the screw.

It always seems that this is a harsh way to treat the wood....no matter
how careful I am, the bit at 45 degrees likes to much up the grain. Now
this is hidden anyway, but...is there another way to "seat" a 45 degree
toe screw?

Jeepers I hope I explained this well enough.

Perhaps it helps to point out that I'm tow screwing on the flat side of the
end of the 2x4...2 screws. I want to seat th screw to keep from tearing an
angled chunk out, but not too far seated because I'll run out of wood if I
go too deep.

Thanks!

Thomas G. Marshall wrote:
Now this is
hidden anyway, but...is there another way to "seat" a 45 degree toe screw?

You could pick up, or make a copy of something like this:

http://www.kregtool.com/products/pht/product.php?PRODUCT_ID=30

Thomas G. Marshall wrote:

| Now this is hidden anyway, but...is there another way to
| "seat" a 45 degree toe screw?

Drill your 45 degree hole through a piece of scrap to make a drill
guide, then clamp that to your apron and use a brad point bit turning
at high speed (2500-3000RPM) to drill to the depth you want. You'll
probably find a stop collar for the bit helpful.

You might find that a Kreg "Rocket" jig (which drills at 15 degrees)
works even better. I'm inclined to see your 45 degrees as a _lot_ of
angle...

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/

You might find that a Kreg "Rocket" jig (which drills at 15 degrees)
works even better. I'm inclined to see your 45 degrees as a _lot_ of
angle...

I agree.

Let me add, however, that I would drill pocket holes at a subtle incline, so
that the pockets do not collect and hold water.

-Steve


--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

As everyone else indicated the real answer is a pocket screw using a
pocket hole jig of some sort. The other option if you have a drill
press is to build a cradle to hold the rails at the right angle.

BTW, pocket holes are not at 45 degrees but more along the lines of 15
degrees so the the strength direction of the screw is more closely
aligned to the axis of the part (rail). So I think you could\should go
go for a more shallow angle.


On Jul 31, 5:32 am, "Thomas G. Marshall"
. com wrote:
I'm making a simple little low table/bench for my deck, and I'm trying to
toe screw the 2x4 side rails to very heavy 4x4 legs (just leftover cedar
from my deck....I wanted a "heavy" look). I'm toe screwing from the inside
to hopefully hide the screws entirely.

To position and countersink the screws I've been (starting with a wide bit)
drilling at 90 degrees for a quick 1/4" depth to give me a place to hold the
bit, and then redrilling that hole at 45 degrees for another quick 1/4" to
make a 45 degree hole ready for the smaller bore drilling and then the
screw.

It always seems that this is a harsh way to treat the wood....no matter how
careful I am, the bit at 45 degrees likes to much up the grain. Now this is
hidden anyway, but...is there another way to "seat" a 45 degree toe screw?

Jeepers I hope I explained this well enough.

"SonomaProducts.com" wrote in message
ups.com...

On Jul 31, 5:32 am, "Thomas G. Marshall"
. com wrote:
I'm making a simple little low table/bench for my deck, and I'm trying to
toe screw the 2x4 side rails to very heavy 4x4 legs (just leftover cedar
from my deck....I wanted a "heavy" look). I'm toe screwing from the
inside
to hopefully hide the screws entirely.

To position and countersink the screws I've been (starting with a wide
bit)
drilling at 90 degrees for a quick 1/4" depth to give me a place to hold
the
bit, and then redrilling that hole at 45 degrees for another quick 1/4"
to
make a 45 degree hole ready for the smaller bore drilling and then the
screw.

It always seems that this is a harsh way to treat the wood....no matter
how
careful I am, the bit at 45 degrees likes to much up the grain. Now this
is
hidden anyway, but...is there another way to "seat" a 45 degree toe
screw?

Jeepers I hope I explained this well enough.

As everyone else indicated the real answer is a pocket screw using a
pocket hole jig of some sort. The other option if you have a drill
press is to build a cradle to hold the rails at the right angle.

BTW, pocket holes are not at 45 degrees but more along the lines of 15
degrees so the the strength direction of the screw is more closely
aligned to the axis of the part (rail). So I think you could\should go
go for a more shallow angle.

Thanks everyone for their replies. This was hugely helpful. I had no idea
that such jigs were so inexpensive. Further, it never occurred to me that
45° was far too steep an angle. It also didn't occur to me to make my own
jig and clamp it....dunno why....makes me feel fairly stupid not having
thought of it.

Thomas G. Marshall wrote:

| Thanks everyone for their replies. This was hugely helpful. I had
| no idea that such jigs were so inexpensive. Further, it never
| occurred to me that 450 was far too steep an angle. It also didn't
| occur to me to make my own jig and clamp it....dunno why....makes
| me feel fairly stupid not having thought of it.

Well, isn't that what friends are for? :-D

We all end up saying "Duh!" at some point. It was just your turn.

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/

"How to toe-screw properly."

----must be a page missing from my Kama Sutra...-----

Robatoy wrote:
"How to toe-screw properly."

----must be a page missing from my Kama Sutra...-----



Trim the nail first.

"Robatoy" wrote in message

"How to toe-screw properly."

----must be a page missing from my Kama Sutra...-----

It's a footnote in the chapter on hot tubs.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 6/1/07
KarlC@ (the obvious)