HELP!

When I bought my TS a few months ago, I removed all the grease from the iron
surfaces as specified in the manual and put 2 coats of Johnson wax on..

That's worked for years on all my tools when we were in Calif., but I guess the
humidity in Baja is a lot different, because the table rusted right through the
wax...

I removed it with fine steel wool (artificial plastic stuff) and mineral
spirits, followed my 2 more coats of wax but I'm wondering if anyone uses
something better?

We're going into a couple of real humid months here and cleaning the rust off
once a week is gonna be a major bummer... any advice appreciated...



mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

mac davis wrote:
HELP!

When I bought my TS a few months ago, I removed all the grease from
the iron surfaces as specified in the manual and put 2 coats of
Johnson wax on..

That's worked for years on all my tools when we were in Calif., but
I guess the humidity in Baja is a lot different, because the table
rusted right through the wax...


I doubt that humidity is the problem, not all that humid in Baja
anyway, about like Alta California...not even close to that of
Honolulu or Veracruz where I used to live or central Florida where I
live now. Do you live near the beach? If so, salt spray is the
culprit.


--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

mac davis wrote:
HELP!

When I bought my TS a few months ago, I removed all the grease from the iron
surfaces as specified in the manual and put 2 coats of Johnson wax on..

That's worked for years on all my tools when we were in Calif., but I guess the
humidity in Baja is a lot different, because the table rusted right through the
wax...

I removed it with fine steel wool (artificial plastic stuff) and mineral
spirits, followed my 2 more coats of wax but I'm wondering if anyone uses
something better?

We're going into a couple of real humid months here and cleaning the rust off
once a week is gonna be a major bummer... any advice appreciated...



mac

Please remove splinters before emailing
Just move it outside during the day. Probably hot enough to boil ANYthing off
of it. :-)

Wayne

"mac davis" wrote in message
I removed it with fine steel wool (artificial plastic stuff) and mineral
spirits, followed my 2 more coats of wax but I'm wondering if anyone uses
something better?

We're going into a couple of real humid months here and cleaning the rust
off
once a week is gonna be a major bummer... any advice appreciated...


To prevent rust,the best I've use ate Top Cote and Boeshield T-9. Both work
well.

For removing rust and some protection, Top Saver is fantastic. Spray it on,
wipe it off. I was amazed at how well it worked. All of these are
available from your favorite suppliers, like Lee Valley.

On Tue, 03 Jul 2007 08:47:37 -0700, mac davis
wrote:

HELP!

When I bought my TS a few months ago, I removed all the grease from the iron
surfaces as specified in the manual and put 2 coats of Johnson wax on..

That's worked for years on all my tools when we were in Calif., but I guess the
humidity in Baja is a lot different, because the table rusted right through the
wax...

I removed it with fine steel wool (artificial plastic stuff) and mineral
spirits, followed my 2 more coats of wax but I'm wondering if anyone uses
something better?

We're going into a couple of real humid months here and cleaning the rust off
once a week is gonna be a major bummer... any advice appreciated...



mac

Please remove splinters before emailing


My chance to, once again, endorse Empire Manufacturings products
including Top Saver, and Top Cote.

When a number of my machines where submerged during Katrina and sat
there for two weeks before I could get to them, I called the people
from Empire for advice. On there own and without my asking, they sent
me a "care package" at no charge, a box of their various products to
help with my recovery effort.

The people are nice and the product works well.

Frank

"mac davis" wrote in message
...
HELP!

When I bought my TS a few months ago, I removed all the grease from the
iron
surfaces as specified in the manual and put 2 coats of Johnson wax on..

That's worked for years on all my tools when we were in Calif., but I
guess the
humidity in Baja is a lot different, because the table rusted right
through the
wax...

I removed it with fine steel wool (artificial plastic stuff) and mineral
spirits, followed my 2 more coats of wax but I'm wondering if anyone uses
something better?

We're going into a couple of real humid months here and cleaning the rust
off
once a week is gonna be a major bummer... any advice appreciated...


Once again, buy the stuff that is make to prevent rust and slick up the top
at the same time.

TopCote and or the Empire products.

Wax is not a good protestant against moisture on wood, it is no different on
iron.

In almost 30 years of cast iron tops and having tried almost every thing I
always go back to TopCote and or the Empire products in Humid Houston.

"Frank Boettcher" wrote in message
news


My chance to, once again, endorse Empire Manufacturings products
including Top Saver, and Top Cote.

When a number of my machines where submerged during Katrina and sat
there for two weeks before I could get to them, I called the people
from Empire for advice. On there own and without my asking, they sent
me a "care package" at no charge, a box of their various products to
help with my recovery effort.

The people are nice and the product works well.

Frank

;~) Do you remember far back enough when Empire owned TopCote?

Leon wrote:

Wax is not a good protestant against moisture on wood, it is no different on
iron.

Must be Catholic :-).

I live in an area of relatively low humidity in summer and high in winter.
When I first set up my workshop 20 or so years ago, I used Trewax floor wax
on all the cast iron. The first year or so I had to rewax about every month,
especially in the wet season. Over time, that diminished to about once a
quarter and, for the last several years, once or twice a year.

Unless I set green wood on the iron - yes, I've done that :-).

So my opinion is that over time wax fills the pores of the cast iron and does
prevent rust quite well.

--
It's turtles, all the way down

Larry Blanchard wrote:
Leon wrote:

Wax is not a good protestant against moisture on wood, it is no different on
iron.

Must be Catholic :-).

I live in an area of relatively low humidity in summer and high in winter.
When I first set up my workshop 20 or so years ago, I used Trewax floor wax
on all the cast iron. The first year or so I had to rewax about every month,
especially in the wet season. Over time, that diminished to about once a
quarter and, for the last several years, once or twice a year.

Unless I set green wood on the iron - yes, I've done that :-).

So my opinion is that over time wax fills the pores of the cast iron and does
prevent rust quite well.

Similar experience (over 30+ years) -- it's far the cheapest/simplest
and an actually somewhat pleasant chore occasionally imo...

--

On Tue, 03 Jul 2007 12:53:05 -0500, Frank Boettcher
wrote:

When a number of my machines where submerged during Katrina and sat
there for two weeks before I could get to them, I called the people
from Empire for advice. On there own and without my asking, they sent
me a "care package" at no charge, a box of their various products to
help with my recovery effort.

Outstanding!

A bunch of our local technicians went down to help Bell South clean up
and sent photos and video back. It was unreal! I also recently saw
the "Dirty Jobs" episode with the post-Katrina house gutters.

We like to think that in modern times we're not susceptible to this
stuff, but Mother Nature always wins. After 9/11 and Katrina, I'm
still blown away by the adaptability and toughness of humans.

Katrina also made me realize just how underappreciated the US Coast
Guard is.

---------------------------------------------
** http://www.bburke.com/woodworking.html **
---------------------------------------------

On Tue, 3 Jul 2007 17:16:10 -0500, "Leon"
wrote:


"Frank Boettcher" wrote in message
news


My chance to, once again, endorse Empire Manufacturings products
including Top Saver, and Top Cote.

When a number of my machines where submerged during Katrina and sat
there for two weeks before I could get to them, I called the people
from Empire for advice. On there own and without my asking, they sent
me a "care package" at no charge, a box of their various products to
help with my recovery effort.

The people are nice and the product works well.

Frank

;~) Do you remember far back enough when Empire owned TopCote?



I stand corrected, Top Saver and Table Top Lubricant. Despite my
misquote they are still nice people and the products do work well, and
after the way they treated my I love to endorse, (no matter how
inaccurately) their products. :~)

Frank

"Frank Boettcher" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 3 Jul 2007 17:16:10 -0500, "Leon"
wrote:


I stand corrected, Top Saver and Table Top Lubricant. Despite my
misquote they are still nice people and the products do work well, and
after the way they treated my I love to endorse, (no matter how
inaccurately) their products. :~)

Frank



Heck Frank, I was not trying to correct you. ;~)
TopCote was originally made by the people that make Empire products, back
in the 80's.

I use both brand products.

On Wed, 04 Jul 2007 02:51:31 GMT, "Leon"
wrote:


"Frank Boettcher" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 3 Jul 2007 17:16:10 -0500, "Leon"
wrote:


I stand corrected, Top Saver and Table Top Lubricant. Despite my
misquote they are still nice people and the products do work well, and
after the way they treated my I love to endorse, (no matter how
inaccurately) their products. :~)

Frank



Heck Frank, I was not trying to correct you. ;~)
TopCote was originally made by the people that make Empire products, back
in the 80's.

I didn't know that.


I use both brand products.

On Tue, 03 Jul 2007 16:10:41 GMT, "dadiOH" wrote:

mac davis wrote:
HELP!

When I bought my TS a few months ago, I removed all the grease from
the iron surfaces as specified in the manual and put 2 coats of
Johnson wax on..

That's worked for years on all my tools when we were in Calif., but
I guess the humidity in Baja is a lot different, because the table
rusted right through the wax...


I doubt that humidity is the problem, not all that humid in Baja
anyway, about like Alta California...not even close to that of
Honolulu or Veracruz where I used to live or central Florida where I
live now. Do you live near the beach? If so, salt spray is the
culprit.

hmm... yesterday, the temp was 95 with 63% humidity... for me, that's humid...
lol

The beach is 3 miles away, so I don't think that's a factor....

For the last week, the truck windows are wet in the morning and the desert
foliage is getting green... and unfortunately, my TS is turning red... *g*


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

On Tue, 03 Jul 2007 16:12:24 GMT, NoOne N Particular
wrote:


Please remove splinters before emailing
Just move it outside during the day. Probably hot enough to boil ANYthing off
of it. :-)

Wayne

Good point, Wayne.. I should have mentioned that it lives in a covered RV
carport...

It gets morning sun and a nice breeze, so I really didn't expect rust..


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

On Tue, 03 Jul 2007 17:33:31 GMT, "Edwin Pawlowski" wrote:


To prevent rust,the best I've use ate Top Cote and Boeshield T-9. Both work
well.

For removing rust and some protection, Top Saver is fantastic. Spray it on,
wipe it off. I was amazed at how well it worked. All of these are
available from your favorite suppliers, like Lee Valley.

Thanks, Ed... I saw the top cote, didn't see top saver..

I'll have to see if any of my friends in the States are coming down soon.. as I
remember, those are aerosol products, right?
(can't be sent air, which means no US Mail)


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

On Tue, 03 Jul 2007 12:53:05 -0500, Frank Boettcher
wrote:

My chance to, once again, endorse Empire Manufacturings products
including Top Saver, and Top Cote.

When a number of my machines where submerged during Katrina and sat
there for two weeks before I could get to them, I called the people
from Empire for advice. On there own and without my asking, they sent
me a "care package" at no charge, a box of their various products to
help with my recovery effort.

The people are nice and the product works well.

Frank


THAT'S where I heard of them, from your posts at the time, Frank..


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

On Tue, 3 Jul 2007 17:13:43 -0500, "Leon" wrote:

Once again, buy the stuff that is make to prevent rust and slick up the top
at the same time.

TopCote and or the Empire products.

Wax is not a good protestant against moisture on wood, it is no different on
iron.

In almost 30 years of cast iron tops and having tried almost every thing I
always go back to TopCote and or the Empire products in Humid Houston.

Thanks, Leon... and I won't be a smart ass about your spelling...

Real OT: Since you mention Houston, Have you ever been to Arne's party supply on
Hicks St.?
I've been doing his web page for years but haven't been there , but it's
supposed to be HUGE...

http://www.arneswarehouse.com/


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

mac davis wrote:
On Tue, 03 Jul 2007 16:10:41 GMT, "dadiOH" wrote:

mac davis wrote:
HELP!

When I bought my TS a few months ago, I removed all the grease from
the iron surfaces as specified in the manual and put 2 coats of
Johnson wax on..

That's worked for years on all my tools when we were in Calif., but
I guess the humidity in Baja is a lot different, because the table
rusted right through the wax...

I doubt that humidity is the problem, not all that humid in Baja
anyway, about like Alta California...not even close to that of
Honolulu or Veracruz where I used to live or central Florida where I
live now. Do you live near the beach? If so, salt spray is the
culprit.

hmm... yesterday, the temp was 95 with 63% humidity... for me, that's humid...
lol

The beach is 3 miles away, so I don't think that's a factor....

Oh, it definitely _is_ a factor at that distance...I think it actually
is both and if you're in a season w/ prevailing onshore winds, it'll
make a big difference as opposed to offshore.

....

mac davis wrote:
On Tue, 03 Jul 2007 16:12:24 GMT, NoOne N Particular
wrote:


Please remove splinters before emailing
Just move it outside during the day. Probably hot enough to boil ANYthing off
of it. :-)

Wayne

Good point, Wayne.. I should have mentioned that it lives in a covered RV
carport...

It gets morning sun and a nice breeze, so I really didn't expect rust..

As above, if that breeze is onshore, it's damp and probably condensing
even w/ the covered roof. Might try one of the semi-permeable covers
and see if it helps.

--

"mac davis" wrote in message
...


Thanks, Leon... and I won't be a smart ass about your spelling...

Wats wrong with my spellen? ;~)
My information is just too important to waste any time proof reading and
spell check. LOL


If you decide to try either of the products that I mentioned, you should put
down 2 to 3 initial coats to ensure total coverage.


Real OT: Since you mention Houston, Have you ever been to Arne's party
supply on
Hicks St.?

I have never been there but I have seen their TV ad's on numerous occasions.
I remember the "dog" that walks the isles on TV.

I've been doing his web page for years but haven't been there , but it's
supposed to be HUGE...

http://www.arneswarehouse.com/

I'll check that out, I was totally unaware that they had a web site. If
they advertise that fact on their TV ad's I do not recall. Then again, I
only remember the dog walking the isles. ;~)

"Larry Blanchard" wrote in message
...
Leon wrote:

Wax is not a good protestant against moisture on wood, it is no different
on
iron.

Must be Catholic :-).

"Protectant" Thank you very much. LOL I think my spell checker is
illiterate and I know that it cannot read my mind.

"mac davis" wrote in message
...

hmm... yesterday, the temp was 95 with 63% humidity... for me, that's
humid...
lol

LOL, In Houston that is kinda dry. Several weeks ago before the monsoone
season started the humidity was down in the 30's and I thought I was going
to dry out and blow away. ;~)


The beach is 3 miles away, so I don't think that's a factor....

Well, it probably is a factor if you get a breeze from that direction. My
house in Houston is approximately 50 miles form the Gulf of Mexico. The
screen wire covering the attic vent on the south side of my house has long
rusted away. The same screen on the north side of the house looks brand
new.


For the last week, the truck windows are wet in the morning and the desert
foliage is getting green... and unfortunately, my TS is turning red... *g*

If your shop experiences drastic temperature changes quickly you may be
getting condensation from that.

"mac davis" wrote in message
...


Thanks, Ed... I saw the top cote, didn't see top saver..

I'll have to see if any of my friends in the States are coming down soon..
as I
remember, those are aerosol products, right?
(can't be sent air, which means no US Mail)


TopCote is an aerosol but TopSaver by Empire is in a pump bottle, not
aerosol. You may be able to order direct.

On Tue, 03 Jul 2007 19:46:39 -0500, Frank Boettcher
wrote:

I stand corrected, Top Saver and Table Top Lubricant. Despite my
misquote they are still nice people and the products do work well, and
after the way they treated my I love to endorse, (no matter how
inaccurately) their products. :~)

We've been using Top-Cote for a few years now but recently bought a
bottle of the Table Top Lubricant to try. Since the TTL can be
purchased in large amounts we thought it might save a little money in
the long run.
Following their instructions (spray on, let dry, wipe off, spray
again) I don't seem to be able to get as slick a top as with TC. Am
I doing something wrong or is there a special technique you like to
use with the TTL?

Mike O.

On Tue, 03 Jul 2007 08:47:37 -0700, mac davis
wrote:

When I bought my TS a few months ago, I removed all the grease from the iron
surfaces as specified in the manual and put 2 coats of Johnson wax on..

That's worked for years on all my tools when we were in Calif., but I guess the
humidity in Baja is a lot different, because the table rusted right through the
wax...

We're going into a couple of real humid months here and cleaning the rust off
once a week is gonna be a major bummer... any advice appreciated...

I have a saw in the garage here in Kansas where 60-70% humidity and
95 degree days in August are pretty common.
People think I'm nuts (I might be) but I have a folded over cabinet
box sitting on the saw top and I do not get rust. I discovered this
by accident when I left a piece of cardboard sitting on the extension
table and a part of it was hanging over the iron top. The part of the
saw top where the cardboard was hanging over was smooth and shiny and
the exposed part of the top had that roughness of rust that you can't
quite see yet. I cleaned everything up and since then keep the
cardboard just sitting there. I do use Top-Cote when working on the
saw and before I put it up but I did that before using the cardboard
and still got rust.

My theory (I told you I might be nuts) is that the two layers of very
heavy cardboard traps the moisture before it gets to the top and it's
thick enough to dry out before becoming saturated. I don't set
anything on the cardboard, it just lays there.

I'm not saying this will work where you are but it's a pretty cheap
and easy thing to test. BTW, the cardboard will also keep your wife
from putting her coffee cup on your nice shiny saw top...

Mike O.

Mike O. wrote:
....
I have a saw in the garage here in Kansas where 60-70% humidity and
95 degree days in August are pretty common.

You're obviously east of Wichita if that's "common" (other than this
year, anyway). I'm on the opposite end and while temperatures are easily
that, we start complaining when summer humidities approach 35-40%.

People think I'm nuts (I might be) but I have a folded over cabinet
box sitting on the saw top and I do not get rust. ...
My theory (I told you I might be nuts) is that the two layers of very
heavy cardboard traps the moisture before it gets to the top and it's
thick enough to dry out before becoming saturated. I don't set
anything on the cardboard, it just lays there.
....

Basically, it's functioning like any other semi-permeable cover would --
it prevents direct air contact and condensation.

--

On Wed, 04 Jul 2007 12:10:07 -0500, Mike O. wrote:

On Tue, 03 Jul 2007 19:46:39 -0500, Frank Boettcher
wrote:

I stand corrected, Top Saver and Table Top Lubricant. Despite my
misquote they are still nice people and the products do work well, and
after the way they treated my I love to endorse, (no matter how
inaccurately) their products. :~)

We've been using Top-Cote for a few years now but recently bought a
bottle of the Table Top Lubricant to try. Since the TTL can be
purchased in large amounts we thought it might save a little money in
the long run.
Following their instructions (spray on, let dry, wipe off, spray
again) I don't seem to be able to get as slick a top as with TC. Am
I doing something wrong or is there a special technique you like to
use with the TTL?

Mike O.


No, that's what I do.

On my in use Unisaw (not the Katrina soaked unit, that is an
"heirloom" so to speak), I generally have to clean it about once a
quarter because of rust spots from dropped glue, sweat, or just
humidity. I put a little top saver on, then use an RO sander with 30
micron (that's 30 micron, not 30 grit) paper. finish up with table
top lubricant as directed. It finishes fairly slick but, with those
years of sanding, not with a high gloss sheen.

I personally like to have a little resistance on feed. And that it be
uniform, even across the insert. I think that is safer. I don't want
to start slick and hit a rough patch or vice versa on a feed.

Frank

On Wed, 04 Jul 2007 16:25:25 GMT, "Leon" wrote:


"mac davis" wrote in message
.. .


Thanks, Ed... I saw the top cote, didn't see top saver..

I'll have to see if any of my friends in the States are coming down soon..
as I
remember, those are aerosol products, right?
(can't be sent air, which means no US Mail)


TopCote is an aerosol but TopSaver by Empire is in a pump bottle, not
aerosol. You may be able to order direct.

thanks, Leon...
I called a friend and he's coming "home" in 2 weeks, so I'll order a supply of
both today and have it shipped to his house in AZ so he can bring it across the
border..


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

On Wed, 04 Jul 2007 09:32:58 -0500, dpb wrote:

The beach is 3 miles away, so I don't think that's a factor....

Oh, it definitely _is_ a factor at that distance...I think it actually
is both and if you're in a season w/ prevailing onshore winds, it'll
make a big difference as opposed to offshore.

good point... All the houses here face the Sea to take advantage of the "Baja
Breeze" off the water...
I wouldn't have known that the salt air would travel that far... thanks!


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

On Wed, 04 Jul 2007 16:23:12 GMT, "Leon" wrote:


For the last week, the truck windows are wet in the morning and the desert
foliage is getting green... and unfortunately, my TS is turning red... *g*

If your shop experiences drastic temperature changes quickly you may be
getting condensation from that.

Well, the SHOP does because I run the AC sometimes, but the rv carport where the
TS is doesn't vary that much... maybe a high of 100f or so, and a low of 85 or
88f...


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

On Wed, 04 Jul 2007 12:42:48 -0500, Mike O. wrote:


My theory (I told you I might be nuts) is that the two layers of very
heavy cardboard traps the moisture before it gets to the top and it's
thick enough to dry out before becoming saturated. I don't set
anything on the cardboard, it just lays there.

I'm not saying this will work where you are but it's a pretty cheap
and easy thing to test. BTW, the cardboard will also keep your wife
from putting her coffee cup on your nice shiny saw top...

Mike O.


It makes sense to me, Mike....
I noticed that there was a noticeably less-rusted spot on the wing where a
cutoff of 1x4 was sitting...
I laid a piece of 1/2" foam board over the saw for now, but it wouldn't absorb
moisture like the cardboard would..


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

On Wed, 04 Jul 2007 12:54:37 -0500, dpb wrote:

I have a saw in the garage here in Kansas where 60-70% humidity and
95 degree days in August are pretty common.

You're obviously east of Wichita if that's "common" (other than this
year, anyway). I'm on the opposite end and while temperatures are easily
that, we start complaining when summer humidities approach 35-40%.

Well I had to go look it up.
From NOAA for Wichita....
30 year average temps in August.... 91.6 F.
49 year average relative humidity in August....
morning 87% afternoon 62%.
Believe it or not, those numbers are just about the same a Miami.

Makes for a nice summer on the job!

Mike O.