Ok, I had someone come over today and help to setup
my machines. We looked at the 20 yr old joiner that I
bought a couple of years ago and got the bad news.

It's got bad bearings, tho they aren't yet totally shot,
and there's a dish in the in and out tables.

So we were talking about what to do and the
answer was to junk it. The price of new bearings,
fixing the dish and some other work that needs to
be done probably would total close to $200 - 250.

I'm tending to just junk it out, perhaps keeping
the in/out tables for sharpening (the dish isn't really
very large but large enough to cause problems
in joining) and maybe the motor and knives
and that's it.

Anyone have any luck with a similar problem?
What tipped you one way or the other?

MJ Wallace

wrote in message
oups.com...
Ok, I had someone come over today and help to
setup
my machines. We looked at the 20 yr old joiner
that I
bought a couple of years ago and got the bad
news.

It's got bad bearings, tho they aren't yet
totally shot,
and there's a dish in the in and out tables.

So we were talking about what to do and the
answer was to junk it. The price of new
bearings,
fixing the dish and some other work that needs
to
be done probably would total close to $200 -
250.

I'm tending to just junk it out, perhaps keeping
the in/out tables for sharpening (the dish isn't
really
very large but large enough to cause problems
in joining) and maybe the motor and knives
and that's it.

Anyone have any luck with a similar problem?
What tipped you one way or the other?

MJ Wallace

I would rebuild it myself. Old iron will last
forever if taken care of and needed maintenance
done.
Puff

In article , "Puff Griffis" wrote:

wrote in message
roups.com...
Ok, I had someone come over today and help to setup
my machines. We looked at the 20 yr old joiner that I
bought a couple of years ago and got the bad news.

It's got bad bearings, tho they aren't yet totally shot,
and there's a dish in the in and out tables.

So we were talking about what to do and the
answer was to junk it. The price of new bearings,
fixing the dish and some other work that needs to
be done probably would total close to $200 - 250.

I'm tending to just junk it out, perhaps keeping
the in/out tables for sharpening (the dish isn't really
very large but large enough to cause problems
in joining) and maybe the motor and knives and that's it.

Anyone have any luck with a similar problem?
What tipped you one way or the other?

MJ Wallace

I would rebuild it myself. Old iron will last
forever if taken care of and needed maintenance done.
Puff

I agree. Bearings are fairly inexpensive, as long as you buy them from a
bearing supplier instead of from the manufacturer of the tool. If you're in or
near a city of any substantial size, chances are you can find something fairly
easily in the Yellow Pages.

Lack of flatness in the tables is a bigger problem, but any machine shop with
a surface grinder should be able to take care of that for you.

I suspect that a little time spent on the phone will reduce your cost well
below the $200-250 you anticipate.

Finally, you should be able to get a lot of good advice on procedures and
sources of parts at the Old Wood-Working Machines site, www.owwm.com .

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

On Jun 15, 1:39 am, "
wrote:
Ok, I had someone come over today and help to setup
my machines. We looked at the 20 yr old joiner that I
bought a couple of years ago and got the bad news.

It's got bad bearings, tho they aren't yet totally shot,
and there's a dish in the in and out tables.

So we were talking about what to do and the
answer was to junk it. The price of new bearings,
fixing the dish and some other work that needs to
be done probably would total close to $200 - 250.

I'm tending to just junk it out, perhaps keeping
the in/out tables for sharpening (the dish isn't really
very large but large enough to cause problems
in joining) and maybe the motor and knives
and that's it.

Anyone have any luck with a similar problem?
What tipped you one way or the other?

A couple hundred at least and a fair bit of time mucking about with
it...I don't know. Unless it's a larger jointer I'd be tempted to
sell what you have, as is, on Craigslist or some such and trade up.

R

wrote:
Ok, I had someone come over today and help to setup
my machines. We looked at the 20 yr old joiner that I
bought a couple of years ago and got the bad news.

It's got bad bearings, tho they aren't yet totally shot,
and there's a dish in the in and out tables.

So we were talking about what to do and the
answer was to junk it. The price of new bearings,
fixing the dish and some other work that needs to
be done probably would total close to $200 - 250.

I'm tending to just junk it out, perhaps keeping
the in/out tables for sharpening (the dish isn't really
very large but large enough to cause problems
in joining) and maybe the motor and knives
and that's it.

Anyone have any luck with a similar problem?
What tipped you one way or the other?

Can't say what I'd do for sure until know what it is -- other than it's
20 years old, you told us nothing of any real value.

If the tables are dished and you can get a surface grind job for $200 or
less it must be relatively small and a lower end import -- in that case,
I'd not invest any more money in it.

--

On Jun 15, 1:39 am, "
wrote:
Ok, I had someone come over today and help to setup
my machines. We looked at the 20 yr old joiner that I
bought a couple of years ago and got the bad news.

It's got bad bearings, tho they aren't yet totally shot,
and there's a dish in the in and out tables.

So we were talking about what to do and the
answer was to junk it. The price of new bearings,
fixing the dish and some other work that needs to
be done probably would total close to $200 - 250.

I'm tending to just junk it out, perhaps keeping
the in/out tables for sharpening (the dish isn't really
very large but large enough to cause problems
in joining) and maybe the motor and knives
and that's it.

Anyone have any luck with a similar problem?
What tipped you one way or the other?

MJ Wallace

with out knowing the size and manufacturer it hard to tell. If it's 8"
or bigger and a high quaility machine, sure buy the bearing from a
supplier, not the manufacturer, and send the offending iron part to be
machined. lower quaility 6" you can replace fairly cheap, with a newer
better machine. and if possible (read that have the room and money)
consider 8" or better. hope this helps.
Jay Bissonnette
Bissonnette Renovations

"Puff Griffis" wrote in message
...

I would rebuild it myself. Old iron will last forever if taken care of and
needed maintenance done.
Puff


This very well may NOT be the quality of Old iron as it is only 20 years
old.

wrote in message
oups.com...
Ok, I had someone come over today and help to setup
my machines. We looked at the 20 yr old joiner that I
bought a couple of years ago and got the bad news.

What tipped you one way or the other?

What I'd do first is find out what brand and model of jointer I had. That
would greatly help in making the decision.. Some I'd junk, others, I'd
spend $500+ to get it right.

Fri, Jun 15, 2007, 8:56am (EDT-1) (dpb)
snip If the tables are dished and you can get a surface grind job for
$200 or less it must be relatively small and a lower end import -- in
that case, I'd not invest any more money in it.

As usual, prices would depend a lot on location. It would cost a
lot more in say a San Francisco or New York City machine shop then it
would in a small rural town machine shop. If it would cost more than
what I'd be willing to pay, I'd figure how to do it myself.



JOAT
If a man does his best, what else is there?
- General George S. Patton

Thanks to all to have added their comments.

Here's the parts I didn't tell you.

It's a 6" Grizzley. Unknown manufacture date, but
the copyright on the manual is 1983. I don't know
nor did I look up on Grizzley's website to know
if they have a date of production for this machine.

I will get some estimates to
smooth out the tables and if I could get them
BOTH done for about $75 - 100, the joiner might be
useful until I decide to replace it. The bearings,
like I said, are not yet gone and the blades
are in very good shape. The biggest cost I would
think would be resurfacing. If I can get that down,
it would make a diff. Oh, I live NORTH of the Golden Gate,
about 50 miles. Rual yes, but still very suburban.

I think I might need a new belt, but that's minimal dollars
there.

So, it's not an 15" or even 8", grand ole iron (Watkins, Delta, etc.),
it's an earlier 6" Griz.

Does that change your thoughts now?

MJ Wallace

wrote:
Thanks to all to have added their comments.

Here's the parts I didn't tell you.

It's a 6" Grizzley. Unknown manufacture date, but
the copyright on the manual is 1983. I don't know
nor did I look up on Grizzley's website to know
if they have a date of production for this machine.

I will get some estimates to
smooth out the tables and if I could get them
BOTH done for about $75 - 100, the joiner might be
useful until I decide to replace it. The bearings,
like I said, are not yet gone and the blades
are in very good shape. The biggest cost I would
think would be resurfacing. If I can get that down,
it would make a diff. Oh, I live NORTH of the Golden Gate,
about 50 miles. Rual yes, but still very suburban.

I think I might need a new belt, but that's minimal dollars
there.

So, it's not an 15" or even 8", grand ole iron (Watkins, Delta, etc.),
it's an earlier 6" Griz.

Does that change your thoughts now?

Yeah...early Griz ain't what later is, in general, so at least one
strike there.

That said, bearings, assuming they're a standard size and weren't
something OEM-specified, would be pretty inexpensive and a relatively
simple fix. One would assume one can get them from any local bearing
distributor--if so, that's at least an "even"...

The dishing is something else again--my initial inclination is if it is
really badly enough dished to be a visible problem in getting a straight
edge, it's probably too much to take out by surface grinding.

It normally wouldn't be a dish in the table that would be noticeable,
anyway, but a "droop" or "rise" in the tables themselves from either
wear or maladjustment of simply inaccurate ways.

Can you demonstrate the tables overall are co-planar but dished or is
there actually a problem overall in getting the infeed and outfeed
tables aligned w/ each other? That is a far more likely scenario to
cause actual observed problems in operation than some minor fluctuations
in the bed itself.

Also, is the outfeed table adjustable or fixed? Are you sure you have
the knives set at the right height relative to the outfeed table? What
is/are the symptom(s) of the wood run over the jointer? Knowing that we
may be able to diagnose the type of fault(s)...

--

wrote:
....
I will get some estimates to
smooth out the tables and if I could get them
BOTH done for about $75 - 100, ...

I meant to add -- to have the tables reground _correctly_ requires the
whole jointer be surface ground as a unit, not each table individually.
(That's how they do them at the factory after initial fitting.)

Thus, the size of a surface grinder needed to get it done that way is
the length of the overall bed which is a machine a small machine shop
ain't likely to have. Otherwise, they have to do one bed, then remount
the whole thing making sure they have the overall alignment correct from
the previous to within about 3-4 mills over the full length and do the
other table. The setup charges alone will be two-three times what
you're talking, I'm sure...

See my other response for what I think is more likely going on...

--

DPB,

Thanks for your comments. My responses below:


That said, bearings, assuming they're a standard size and weren't
something OEM-specified, would be pretty inexpensive and a relatively
simple fix. One would assume one can get them from any local bearing
distributor--if so, that's at least an "even"...

You're right there. My friends estimate was about $35 for them. But
they aren't shot yet meaning, still good. Might be useable in
the state they are in for 30 or more hours? Who knows, but it
would mean testing them often.

The dishing is something else again--my initial inclination is if it is
really badly enough dished to be a visible problem in getting a straight
edge, it's probably too much to take out by surface grinding.

It normally wouldn't be a dish in the table that would be noticeable,
anyway, but a "droop" or "rise" in the tables themselves from either
wear or maladjustment of simply inaccurate ways.

No, we tested the beds and found them to be even across the
entire machine. So they ways are good. The dishing is not
a whole lot but more than what my friend would recommend
and he's a master woodworker. He teaches woodworking
and has an excellant eye for this work. I trust him completely.

Also, is the outfeed table adjustable or fixed? Are you sure you have
the knives set at the right height relative to the outfeed table? What
is/are the symptom(s) of the wood run over the jointer? Knowing that we
may be able to diagnose the type of fault(s)...

We didn't get a chance to run wood because we ran out of time
and spent a good deal of the remaining hrs of the day talking
about the joiner itself. He pointed out the dishing, etc. He took
out one set of knives and adjusted them, but not completely and
the machine is disassembled at the moment, waiting on my
decision.

The more that I think about it, if it cost me $200 more to fix it
up (I think I spent $200 to buy it 3 years ago and it sat for
all this time), I'd rather pony up another $300 to buy a new
Jet or Delta 6-in, have a warranty, a better motor, flat
tables (I'd test them and have them replaced if not flat). etc.

I appreciated your thoughts on this. I hate to see something
useful go to scrap, but I don't think this machine is
all that useful.

MJ Wallace

wrote:
DPB,

Thanks for your comments. My responses below:


That said, bearings, assuming they're a standard size and weren't
something OEM-specified, would be pretty inexpensive and a relatively
simple fix. One would assume one can get them from any local bearing
distributor--if so, that's at least an "even"...

You're right there. My friends estimate was about $35 for them. But
they aren't shot yet meaning, still good. Might be useable in
the state they are in for 30 or more hours? Who knows, but it
would mean testing them often.

Pardon the expression, but that's bogus BS -- a bearing in a fairly
light-duty application like a 6" jointer isn't going to go from "good"
to "unusable" in 30 hrs. If it's going to fail in 30 hrs, it isn't any
good now.

If there's detectable play, they're already bad and should be replaced.
If it's only that the jointer hasn't been used for a while, they may
be dry and a shot of lube may well quieten them down. Unless you're
going to be doing a whole lot of work, I suspect they could well outlast
you unless they are already discernibly bad enough that there's no question.

The dishing is something else again--my initial inclination is if it is
really badly enough dished to be a visible problem in getting a straight
edge, it's probably too much to take out by surface grinding.

It normally wouldn't be a dish in the table that would be noticeable,
anyway, but a "droop" or "rise" in the tables themselves from either
wear or maladjustment of simply inaccurate ways.

No, we tested the beds and found them to be even across the
entire machine. So they ways are good. The dishing is not
a whole lot but more than what my friend would recommend
and he's a master woodworker. He teaches woodworking
and has an excellant eye for this work. I trust him completely.

That may be, but sounds like he may be one who's more interested in the
machine than in wood. You're not machining metal to mills, here. Specs
on good-quality machine beds (like Delta, Powermatic, etc.) are in the
3-5 mill range so unless yours is much worse than that you could well
find as much or more in a new machine straight off the truck.

Also, is the outfeed table adjustable or fixed? Are you sure you have
the knives set at the right height relative to the outfeed table? What
is/are the symptom(s) of the wood run over the jointer? Knowing that we
may be able to diagnose the type of fault(s)...

We didn't get a chance to run wood because we ran out of time
and spent a good deal of the remaining hrs of the day talking
about the joiner itself. He pointed out the dishing, etc. He took
out one set of knives and adjusted them, but not completely and
the machine is disassembled at the moment, waiting on my
decision.

The more that I think about it, if it cost me $200 more to fix it
up (I think I spent $200 to buy it 3 years ago and it sat for
all this time), I'd rather pony up another $300 to buy a new
Jet or Delta 6-in, have a warranty, a better motor, flat
tables (I'd test them and have them replaced if not flat). etc.

I appreciated your thoughts on this. I hate to see something
useful go to scrap, but I don't think this machine is
all that useful.

You haven't even run a single piece of wood across it to check and
you're getting ready to junk it? Again, not intending to offend, but
that's simply ludicrous. I fully expect that if you were to sharpen the
knives, adjust them properly, and learn technique for jointing, it would
do work good enough to match or exceed the rest of your skill level for
some time to come with no cash outlay (other than perhaps the bearings).

IMO, ymmv, $0.02, etc., etc., etc., ...

--

On Fri, 15 Jun 2007 11:12:06 GMT, (Doug Miller)
wrote:

I suspect that a little time spent on the phone will reduce your cost well
below the $200-250 you anticipate.

Last one-off surface grind job (an anvil face) I saw was $80 for that
alone

I imagine I'd fix it though, if the jointer was basically worth it.
Certainly bearings are an easy swap in most jointers (saws can be
tricky sometimes).

I'm having trouble with this "unacceptable warp" in the tables though.
Just how much are we talking about?

DPB,

Again thanks for the input.

You made some very excellent suggestions and I'm still
"on the fence". Ultimately, I have to consider
what I would like to do and thinking at the minimum,
I could "lube" the bearings and then adjust the knives
and then see where I stand. It's the least I could
do, and your "gentle" prodding is spot on.

Again, thanks for your responses.

MJ Wallace

wrote:
DPB,

Again thanks for the input.

You made some very excellent suggestions and I'm still
"on the fence". Ultimately, I have to consider
what I would like to do and thinking at the minimum,
I could "lube" the bearings and then adjust the knives
and then see where I stand. It's the least I could
do, and your "gentle" prodding is spot on.

Again, thanks for your responses.

MJ Wallace

If nothing else, you quite possibly could get most if not all of the
cost of bearings if you were to sell it if it ran quietly instead of not...

But, as I read, sounds more like you're trying to justify a new machine
and hoping somebody here will back you up. You should know that here we
only say "atta-boy" after the decision has been made and the new iron is
home and off the truck...

Seriously, if you're just starting into woodworking, I strongly
recommend not being unable to "see the forest for the trees". Unless
this dishing is extremely bad (and we're yet to see a single
quantitative measurement or location on the bed of these imperfections),
consider that most cabinet workpieces will be from a minimum of 12-18"
to several feet in length. The length of these will span the overall
length of the bed and wouldn't be able to follow these local high/low
places anyway. Only if the bed is actually concave or convex over it's
entire length is it likely to be a problem at all, and if there were so,
the measurements you say your friend took wouldn't have shown the infeed
and outfeed tables to be coplanar as you have said they are.

Another way to think of it is analogous to the beginning violin student
-- a Strad is a fine instrument, but until the new pupil has mastered a
fair amount of technique and skill, the difference between his "starter"
practice violin and a Strad wouldn't help his sound much at all.

--

--

"dpb" wrote in message ...
wrote:
...
I will get some estimates to
smooth out the tables and if I could get them
BOTH done for about $75 - 100, ...

I meant to add -- to have the tables reground _correctly_ requires the
whole jointer be surface ground as a unit, not each table individually.
(That's how they do them at the factory after initial fitting.)

Thus, the size of a surface grinder needed to get it done that way is the
length of the overall bed which is a machine a small machine shop ain't
likely to have. Otherwise, they have to do one bed, then remount the
whole thing making sure they have the overall alignment correct from the
previous to within about 3-4 mills over the full length and do the other
table. The setup charges alone will be two-three times what you're
talking, I'm sure...


In addition to the above remarks, I would give grizzly a call. They may or
may not be able to help. But they could give you some ideas as to what your
options may be. They do have all the machining capabilities to repair their
machines. I have no idea what the rates (or shipping costs) would be.

Lee Michaels wrote:
"dpb" wrote in message ...
wrote:
...
I will get some estimates to
smooth out the tables and if I could get them
BOTH done for about $75 - 100, ...
I meant to add -- to have the tables reground _correctly_ requires the
whole jointer be surface ground as a unit, not each table individually.
(That's how they do them at the factory after initial fitting.)

Thus, the size of a surface grinder needed to get it done that way is the
length of the overall bed which is a machine a small machine shop ain't
likely to have. Otherwise, they have to do one bed, then remount the
whole thing making sure they have the overall alignment correct from the
previous to within about 3-4 mills over the full length and do the other
table. The setup charges alone will be two-three times what you're
talking, I'm sure...


In addition to the above remarks, I would give grizzly a call. They may or
may not be able to help. But they could give you some ideas as to what your
options may be. They do have all the machining capabilities to repair their
machines. I have no idea what the rates (or shipping costs) would be.

That's a good point -- being set up to do it as opposed to the extensive
setup for a local shop could conceivably offset the shipping costs.

But, it's still foolish to think it needs anything of that magnitude at
all until he's at least tried to set it up and use it unless there's far
more indication of a serious problem than provided so far.

Nothing against his buddy, but he sounds like one of the anal-retentive
types more interested in the machines than in woodworking to me, or else
trying to "show-off" his expertise and getting bogged down in minutiae.
Of course, he may have known and OP misunderstood the significance of
the so-called defects, too. Who knows???

--

wrote in message
So, it's not an 15" or even 8", grand ole iron (Watkins, Delta, etc.),
it's an earlier 6" Griz.

Does that change your thoughts now?


Yes, I'd put the money towards a new one. My limit would be about $100 on
the old one.

You didn't say what kind of jointer but bearings are pretty much standard.
cost about $15.00 for the pair at a bearing supplier. My jointer is 60 years
old and is still good as new so I would fix it..
wrote in message
oups.com...
Ok, I had someone come over today and help to setup
my machines. We looked at the 20 yr old joiner that I
bought a couple of years ago and got the bad news.

It's got bad bearings, tho they aren't yet totally shot,
and there's a dish in the in and out tables.

So we were talking about what to do and the
answer was to junk it. The price of new bearings,
fixing the dish and some other work that needs to
be done probably would total close to $200 - 250.

I'm tending to just junk it out, perhaps keeping
the in/out tables for sharpening (the dish isn't really
very large but large enough to cause problems
in joining) and maybe the motor and knives
and that's it.

Anyone have any luck with a similar problem?
What tipped you one way or the other?

MJ Wallace

I'd look into fixing myself as others have stated, you can likely use
it just fine and not have any issues. Bearings are cheap. You'd be
paying for new metal on things you already have for a new one - like
the stand, the motor, controls, etc and all you need is a little TLC.
I don't proclaim to be an expert, but perhaps if it really bothers you
you could take something that is known to be flat and put some
sandpaper around it and try to scrape the table flatter. Soon it will
either be flatter, or your arms will be tired and then you will be
more likely to accept the small imperfections w/o as many
reservations.

For what its worth, my Griz table saw side tables were not flat when I
got it. I'd align the ends to be flush and middle would be high.
After examining it I compromised on the setting, and although not
worthy of anal-retentive examination, it works fine and I've made some
decent looking projects.

S

wrote:
Ok, I had someone come over today and help to setup
my machines. We looked at the 20 yr old joiner that I
bought a couple of years ago and got the bad news.

It's got bad bearings, tho they aren't yet totally shot,
and there's a dish in the in and out tables.


MJ
Almost certainly the dishing is acceptable. If you continue to have
doubts after making a few test cuts, and if you have a die-maker friend,
have him measure it for you and make his recommendations. The table is a
bearing surface ... having it manually 'spotted in' (by a qualified guy)
would actually help wood move across it more freely than before.

Here's my 'two cents worth'.

Before I did anything else to that machine, I would sharpen the blades,
carefully re-install them (there is a LONG thread in this group about
how to do this at least two different ways), set up the tables as if I
didn't know about the dishing and run a few test cuts. Maybe the
bearings are junk ... maybe they aren't. In any case, unless you are
just itching to own a different jointer, it's worth it to at least give
it a trial and, if you still think they are bad, look into replacing the
old bearings. As others have pointed out, the cost of new bearings is
usually quite manageable.

HTH,

Bill


---
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On Jun 15, 9:56 am, dpb wrote:
wrote:
Ok, I had someone come over today and help to setup
my machines. We looked at the 20 yr old joiner that I
bought a couple of years ago and got the bad news.

It's got bad bearings, tho they aren't yet totally shot,
and there's a dish in the in and out tables.

So we were talking about what to do and the
answer was to junk it. The price of new bearings,
fixing the dish and some other work that needs to
be done probably would total close to $200 - 250.

I'm tending to just junk it out, perhaps keeping
the in/out tables for sharpening (the dish isn't really
very large but large enough to cause problems
in joining) and maybe the motor and knives
and that's it.

Anyone have any luck with a similar problem?
What tipped you one way or the other?

Can't say what I'd do for sure until know what it is -- other than it's
20 years old, you told us nothing of any real value.

If the tables are dished and you can get a surface grind job for $200 or
less it must be relatively small and a lower end import -- in that case,
I'd not invest any more money in it.

For a low-end import, pack the surface with Bondo and
level it, then start saving for a better machine.

Bill,

Before I did anything else to that machine, I would sharpen the blades,
carefully re-install them (there is a LONG thread in this group about
how to do this at least two different ways), set up the tables as if I
didn't know about the dishing and run a few test cuts. Maybe the
bearings are junk ... maybe they aren't. In any case, unless you are
just itching to own a different jointer, it's worth it to at least give
it a trial and, if you still think they are bad, look into replacing the
old bearings. As others have pointed out, the cost of new bearings is
usually quite manageable.

Want to thank you, DPB and others. I have a line on another
"free" joiner that might be better (model, power,etc) than this one.
If that one is better, I'll do a "restore" on it (not sure if it needs
anything
right now). I did measure the dishing of the one I have. It measures
about .004 - .005
over a 6 - 8" span on either bed about 3 - 4 inches from the
cutter. It is possible, like DPB, you and others have suggested
that it won't be big deal. I'd rather get a new one, but I'm also
like to keep this one, if it were worth it. Sounds like for the
price of bearings (when they wear out) it might be fine.

But to all, thanks again. Bottom line, I might keep it
but it depends on this other joiner. Tho SWMBO told
me to go ahead and buy a new one, I'm going to wait
a bit.

BTW: Grizzley says:
We appreciate your interest in our jointers. The flatness is .002"
per
foot.
--
(Asked for their tolerance on their joiners).

MJ Wallace

wrote:
....
... I did measure the dishing of the one I have. It measures
about .004 - .005 over a 6 - 8" span on either bed about 3 - 4 inches from the
cutter. It is possible, like DPB, you and others have suggested
that it won't be big deal. I'd rather get a new one, ...

NOW the story is out!

I don't think there's much chance that will bother significantly for
virtually all cabinet work. Again, on the assumption as you've stated
before that the beds are _overall_ coplanar, then a piece of material
12" long or longer (which is really about the shortest one will normally
consider joining anyway and usually quite a bit longer) will be bridging
those areas most of the time and unless one deliberately pushes down on
the end during the time it is in that low spot (which again, would only
be a few thousandths off perfect anyway) it's still riding on the high
spots. Proper operation of the jointer transfers pressure from the
infeed to the outfeed as the stock passes over the knives, so direct
force on the inward side end of the piece shouldn't be applied anyway.

I repeat -- until you tune this puppy up and use it some, this is all
idle speculation and looking for a justification for the new machine...

If you want it, go for it, but here you're needing a better excuse. (Now
SWMBO may not be quite so savvy so it'll probably work at home).

--

On Jun 27, 5:40 pm, "
wrote:
Bill,

Before I did anything else to that machine, I would sharpen the blades,
carefully re-install them (there is a LONG thread in this group about
how to do this at least two different ways), set up the tables as if I
didn't know about the dishing and run a few test cuts. Maybe the
bearings are junk ... maybe they aren't. In any case, unless you are
just itching to own a different jointer, it's worth it to at least give
it a trial and, if you still think they are bad, look into replacing the
old bearings. As others have pointed out, the cost of new bearings is
usually quite manageable.

Want to thank you, DPB and others. I have a line on another
"free" joiner that might be better (model, power,etc) than this one.
If that one is better, I'll do a "restore" on it (not sure if it needs
anything
right now). I did measure the dishing of the one I have. It measures
about .004 - .005
over a 6 - 8" span on either bed about 3 - 4 inches from the
cutter. It is possible, like DPB, you and others have suggested
that it won't be big deal. I'd rather get a new one, but I'm also
like to keep this one, if it were worth it. Sounds like for the
price of bearings (when they wear out) it might be fine.

But to all, thanks again. Bottom line, I might keep it
but it depends on this other joiner. Tho SWMBO told
me to go ahead and buy a new one, I'm going to wait
a bit.

BTW: Grizzley says:
We appreciate your interest in our jointers. The flatness is .002"
per
foot.
--
(Asked for their tolerance on their joiners).

MJ Wallace

Let me know if you live near Houston, I'd like to try fixing that old
POS you have.

Scott

On Jun 15, 1:39 am, "
wrote:
Ok, I had someone come over today and help to setup
my machines. We looked at the 20 yr old joiner that I
bought a couple of years ago and got the bad news.

It's got bad bearings, tho they aren't yet totally shot,
and there's a dish in the in and out tables.

So we were talking about what to do and the
answer was to junk it. The price of new bearings,
fixing the dish and some other work that needs to
be done probably would total close to $200 - 250.

I'm tending to just junk it out, perhaps keeping
the in/out tables for sharpening (the dish isn't really
very large but large enough to cause problems
in joining) and maybe the motor and knives
and that's it.

Anyone have any luck with a similar problem?
What tipped you one way or the other?

MJ Wallace

Is that dishing from wear, or from shrinkage, which you
should expect from cheap, unseasoned iron. In the
latter case, I've heard you can pop the tables flat by
laying them upside down over a couple of 2x4s and standing
on them.

FH,

Is that dishing from wear, or from shrinkage, which you
should expect from cheap, unseasoned iron. In the
latter case, I've heard you can pop the tables flat by
laying them upside down over a couple of 2x4s and standing
on them.

Got it used from a man who build furniture for a store
he had. Had a full shop and I only wanted the joiner.

He claimed he never used it much. Not much wear
on things but I really can't see how you can pop
cast iron?

Thanks,

MJ Wallace

Scott:

Let me know if you live near Houston, I'd like to try fixing that old
POS you have.


Thanks for the offer. Unfortunately, I live north of the Golden Gate
and Houston is more than a 2 hr drive!

But if you're ever in the area.... let me know.

MJ Wallace

wrote:
FH,

Is that dishing from wear, or from shrinkage, which you
should expect from cheap, unseasoned iron. In the
latter case, I've heard you can pop the tables flat by
laying them upside down over a couple of 2x4s and standing
on them.

Got it used from a man who build furniture for a store
he had. Had a full shop and I only wanted the joiner.

He claimed he never used it much. Not much wear
on things but I really can't see how you can pop
cast iron?

Not likely to happen and even more unlikely to result in a more
desirable configuration afterwards than before even if it did...

It is true that rough castings are "aged" before final finishing and
it's possible (even probable?) an inexpensive table didn't have the
benefit of as good a process in manufacturing as did a more expensive
one (and, of course, there are generally reasons why cheaper products
are so).

It was pretty neat on the tour of the Powermatic facilities in
McMinnville years ago to see the piles of castings "curing" out in the
yard. Some of them were perhaps 10-15 ft high/deep. I forget now how
long the shop foreman told it was before they were brought in and
finished but it was a couple of years I think...it was new knowledge for
me at the time.

--

On Jun 29, 2:02 pm, dpb wrote:
wrote:
FH,

Is that dishing from wear, or from shrinkage, which you
should expect from cheap, unseasoned iron. In the
latter case, I've heard you can pop the tables flat by
laying them upside down over a couple of 2x4s and standing
on them.

Got it used from a man who build furniture for a store
he had. Had a full shop and I only wanted the joiner.

He claimed he never used it much. Not much wear
on things but I really can't see how you can pop
cast iron?

Not likely to happen and even more unlikely to result in a more
desirable configuration afterwards than before even if it did...

UL, I guess, then. Time to burn my old stack of Fine Woodworking
mags.

It is true that rough castings are "aged" before final finishing and
it's possible (even probable?) an inexpensive table didn't have the
benefit of as good a process in manufacturing as did a more expensive
one (and, of course, there are generally reasons why cheaper products
are so).

It's why bench planes in the past 30 years have been cast with ribs,
as
a shortcut to keeping them flat. My vintage Baileys don't have them,
and
don't need them.

It was pretty neat on the tour of the Powermatic facilities in
McMinnville years ago to see the piles of castings "curing" out in the
yard. Some of them were perhaps 10-15 ft high/deep. I forget now how
long the shop foreman told it was before they were brought in and
finished but it was a couple of years I think...it was new knowledge for
me at the time.

One year is standard.

Is it also UL that stock racing engines are machined out of older
blocks to make warpage less likely?

Father Haskell wrote:
On Jun 29, 2:02 pm, dpb wrote:
wrote:
FH,
Is that dishing from wear, or from shrinkage, which you
should expect from cheap, unseasoned iron. In the
latter case, I've heard you can pop the tables flat by
laying them upside down over a couple of 2x4s and standing
on them.
Got it used from a man who build furniture for a store
he had. Had a full shop and I only wanted the joiner.
He claimed he never used it much. Not much wear
on things but I really can't see how you can pop
cast iron?
Not likely to happen and even more unlikely to result in a more
desirable configuration afterwards than before even if it did...

UL, I guess, then. Time to burn my old stack of Fine Woodworking
mags.

I've read virtually every issue of FWW since about mid-year of V I with
the exception of a couple of years I let subscription lapse back 15
years or so ago. I remember lots of tips & techniques but I don't
recall ever reading of this one there....not to say it wasn't there, but
I surely don't remember it and I've read a lot of 'em...

I can't imagine it being feasible at all and certainly not anything
reproducible.

It is true that rough castings are "aged" before final finishing and
it's possible (even probable?) an inexpensive table didn't have the
benefit of as good a process in manufacturing as did a more expensive
one (and, of course, there are generally reasons why cheaper products
are so).

It's why bench planes in the past 30 years have been cast with ribs,
as
a shortcut to keeping them flat. My vintage Baileys don't have them,
and
don't need them.

It was pretty neat on the tour of the Powermatic facilities in
McMinnville years ago to see the piles of castings "curing" out in the
yard. Some of them were perhaps 10-15 ft high/deep. I forget now how
long the shop foreman told it was before they were brought in and
finished but it was a couple of years I think...it was new knowledge for
me at the time.

One year is standard.

What any given manufacturer is doing now, I don't know--given costs and
competition these days, wouldn't doubt it.

I don't know what PM had for a minimum for sure but I'm still pretty
sure the shop foreman giving me the "cook's tour" said more like two.
The time was longer than that on average, though -- they had something
otoo 3-4 years' of production in the yard of most major castings at the
time. These weren't just little piles of 10-15 castings here and
there--they were _big_ piles of hundreds and multiple piles of 'em!
Mind-boggling to see. This was in about '79/80 or thereabouts. I moved
to TN in '78 and it was a year or so afterwards I bought the PM-66 and
picked it up on site simply for the opportunity to invite myself in for
a tour...

Is it also UL that stock racing engines are machined out of older
blocks to make warpage less likely?

That I have no information but my first guess would be "not"...but it is
only that.

--

On Jun 29, 5:28 pm, dpb wrote:
Father Haskell wrote:
On Jun 29, 2:02 pm, dpb wrote:
wrote:
FH,
Is that dishing from wear, or from shrinkage, which you
should expect from cheap, unseasoned iron. In the
latter case, I've heard you can pop the tables flat by
laying them upside down over a couple of 2x4s and standing
on them.
Got it used from a man who build furniture for a store
he had. Had a full shop and I only wanted the joiner.
He claimed he never used it much. Not much wear
on things but I really can't see how you can pop
cast iron?
Not likely to happen and even more unlikely to result in a more
desirable configuration afterwards than before even if it did...

UL, I guess, then. Time to burn my old stack of Fine Woodworking
mags.

I've read virtually every issue of FWW since about mid-year of V I with
the exception of a couple of years I let subscription lapse back 15
years or so ago. I remember lots of tips & techniques but I don't
recall ever reading of this one there....not to say it wasn't there, but
I surely don't remember it and I've read a lot of 'em...

Must have been between years I and IV then. I've still
got the wooden jointer plane I made from the plans in
volume I, issue I. ;-)

I can't imagine it being feasible at all and certainly not anything
reproducible.

Every metal has a Young's modulus, aka yield point. Cast iron's YM
might be near immeasurable, but it's there. IIRC, once you get the
table popped, it stays popped.

It is true that rough castings are "aged" before final finishing and
it's possible (even probable?) an inexpensive table didn't have the
benefit of as good a process in manufacturing as did a more expensive
one (and, of course, there are generally reasons why cheaper products
are so).

It's why bench planes in the past 30 years have been cast with ribs,
as
a shortcut to keeping them flat. My vintage Baileys don't have them,
and
don't need them.

It was pretty neat on the tour of the Powermatic facilities in
McMinnville years ago to see the piles of castings "curing" out in the
yard. Some of them were perhaps 10-15 ft high/deep. I forget now how
long the shop foreman told it was before they were brought in and
finished but it was a couple of years I think...it was new knowledge for
me at the time.

One year is standard.

What any given manufacturer is doing now, I don't know--given costs and
competition these days, wouldn't doubt it.

I don't know what PM had for a minimum for sure but I'm still pretty
sure the shop foreman giving me the "cook's tour" said more like two.
The time was longer than that on average, though -- they had something
otoo 3-4 years' of production in the yard of most major castings at the
time. These weren't just little piles of 10-15 castings here and
there--they were _big_ piles of hundreds and multiple piles of 'em!
Mind-boggling to see. This was in about '79/80 or thereabouts. I moved
to TN in '78 and it was a year or so afterwards I bought the PM-66 and
picked it up on site simply for the opportunity to invite myself in for
a tour...

Shoprat paradise.

PM's finish is among the best. Did you check out their
grinding department? Must be impressive to see rows upon
rows of tops being Blancharded, 3 at a time per machine.

Is it also UL that stock racing engines are machined out of older
blocks to make warpage less likely?

That I have no information but my first guess would be "not"...but it is
only that.

If a used block is going to warp under sustained near-redline
driving,
it probably already has.

Father Haskell wrote:
....

I can't imagine it being feasible at all and certainly not anything
reproducible.

Every metal has a Young's modulus, aka yield point. Cast iron's YM
might be near immeasurable, but it's there. IIRC, once you get the
table popped, it stays popped.

Of course, but if you look at the ribbing on the bottom of a typical
jointer table, they're ain't enough room between to stand on anything
except rib and it would certainly take more than a couple hundred pounds
to move it.

I peronally think it's wishful thinking at best and just plain hokum at
worst...

imo, ymmv, etc.,, ...

--