Hello,

I am thinking of building a bookcase. I am wanting it to be done
rather nicely(ie. dovetailed tops, wooden standards, sliding
dovetails, ect.). However, I do not know what to do for the
backing ,and I do not want plywood backing on it. Any suggestions?

On May 29, 9:55 am, wrote:
Hello,

I am thinking of building a bookcase. I am wanting it to be done
rather nicely(ie. dovetailed tops, wooden standards, sliding
dovetails, ect.). However, I do not know what to do for the
backing ,and I do not want plywood backing on it. Any suggestions?

One of the best reasons to use an engineered wood for something like
this is it's stability when the relative humidity changes with the
seasons, and how it helps stop racking forces. I guess you could
tongue and groove some solid wood panels, the wider the better, of
course. Tom

On May 29, 12:55 pm, wrote:
Hello,

I am thinking of building a bookcase. I am wanting it to be done
rather nicely(ie. dovetailed tops, wooden standards, sliding
dovetails, ect.). However, I do not know what to do for the
backing ,and I do not want plywood backing on it. Any suggestions?

Nicolas,

I think Tom is on the right track here. You can easily (and cheaply)
add 2 - 3 pieces of solid wood (1 at the top, 1 at the bottom, and 1
in the middle) that would act as bracing. The remainder of the back of
the bookcase can be open - especially if the bookcase will be against
a wall.

wrote:
Hello,

I am thinking of building a bookcase. I am wanting it to be done
rather nicely(ie. dovetailed tops, wooden standards, sliding
dovetails, ect.). However, I do not know what to do for the
backing ,and I do not want plywood backing on it. Any suggestions?


I'm writing this next to my great grandmother's bookcase, a big old
piece that's gotta be 100 years old if it's a day. It has 1/4" plywood
back panels, set into a rabbet and glued.
The plywood back adds tremendous strength to the finished piece. Set
in a rabbet, or even better a dado, the back stiffens the piece against
racking. I would be very loath to give up the strength of a solid
plywood back for anything. You want the piece to be rugged enough to
withstand getting hauled up two flights of stairs, and then overloaded
with college text books by some yet to be born grandchild.

David Starr

On 29 May 2007 09:55:57 -0700, wrote:

However, I do not know what to do for the
backing ,and I do not want plywood backing on it.

You have two choices: plywood, or lapped boards.

As you probably know, wood shrinks with decreasing moisture. It shrinks
widthways and radially, but not lengthways. A great deal of joinery
isn't just about constructing boxes, it's about constructing boxes that
don't warp or crack when they dry out.

Plywood doesn't shrink. So you can apply it rigidly to the back without
worrying about splitting. This will stiffen up your carcase
substantially. Overall this is the best way to make it -- it's entirely
reasonable to use plywood here. You can of course use a good grade of
veneered cabinetry ply.

If you use solid boards, then you need to deal with them shrinking.
They're width-wise boards (probably the grain running vertically) in a
cabinet built with a top board and shelves that won't shrink when dried
out. So you need to allow for these boards shrinking in service
(assuming you're not building it indoors in a heated workshop!), yetnot
have them split or leave gaps between them.

The usual fix here is to half-lap the boards by cutting a wide, shallow
rebate in the edge of each one and overlapping them. When they shrink,
then move sideways over each other and don't leave a gap. Stain them
before assembly, so that this gap isn't an obvious light stripe.

They're also at risk of splitting, so only fix each board with one nail
at each end (or into each intermediate shelf) and place it in th emiddle
of the board. Also space the boards out evenly.

To accurately estimate shrinkage, read Hoadley's excellent book
"Understanding Wood". It's hard to say how much you might see from
workshop to driest weather, but 5% isn't a bad start. It's about 10%
tops for green wood to fully dry.

Of course fastening the boards with just a single nail means that
they're no longer stiffening the carcase. This is the cost of not using
plywood. You understand _why_ now, so it's your call as to choose which
one.

"Andy Dingley" wrote in message
...
On 29 May 2007 09:55:57 -0700, wrote:

However, I do not know what to do for the
snip

The usual fix here is to half-lap the boards by cutting a wide, shallow
rebate in the edge of each one and overlapping them. When they shrink,
then move sideways over each other and don't leave a gap. Stain them
before assembly, so that this gap isn't an obvious light stripe.

They're also at risk of splitting, so only fix each board with one nail
at each end (or into each intermediate shelf) and place it in th emiddle
of the board. Also space the boards out evenly.

To accurately estimate shrinkage, read Hoadley's excellent book
"Understanding Wood". It's hard to say how much you might see from
workshop to driest weather, but 5% isn't a bad start. It's about 10%
tops for green wood to fully dry.

Of course fastening the boards with just a single nail means that
they're no longer stiffening the carcase. This is the cost of not using
plywood. You understand _why_ now, so it's your call as to choose which
one.

There is a third way, one Chris Beckvoort uses in his Bookcase with Doors.
That is
frame and panel with the panel flush with the frame. The panels are captured
but not
fastened. The shelves cannot be attached to the back. I think its a real
classy look. :-)

You will find the case in the book "In the Shaker Style".

On 30 May, 02:03, "Lowell Holmes" wrote:

There is a third way, one Chris Beckvoort uses in his Bookcase with Doors.
That is frame and panel with the panel flush with the frame.

How many panels does he use across the width?

The shelves cannot be attached to the back.

Couldn't you attach to the frame at least? That would stiffen the
carcase, even if you didn't attach every shelf.

You will find the case in the book "In the Shaker Style".

I'll dig it out tonight, thanks.

"Andy Dingley" wrote in message
oups.com...
On 30 May, 02:03, "Lowell Holmes" wrote:

There is a third way, one Chris Beckvoort uses in his Bookcase with
Doors.
That is frame and panel with the panel flush with the frame.

How many panels does he use across the width?

The shelves cannot be attached to the back.

Couldn't you attach to the frame at least? That would stiffen the
carcase, even if you didn't attach every shelf.

You will find the case in the book "In the Shaker Style".

I'll dig it out tonight, thanks.

The back panel on his book case has top and bottom rails, two outside
stiles, and a center stile. There are two flush panels. The panels float
inside the stiles and rails, held in position by space balls(?).

IIRC, he fastens the shelves to the middle stile with a nail from the back.

I am making the case, but I am using loose adjustable shelves. I think my
back panel turned out pretty good. :-)

"Andy Dingley" wrote in message
oups.com...
On 30 May, 02:03, "Lowell Holmes" wrote:

There is a third way, one Chris Beckvoort uses in his Bookcase with
Doors.
That is frame and panel with the panel flush with the frame.

How many panels does he use across the width?

The shelves cannot be attached to the back.

Couldn't you attach to the frame at least? That would stiffen the
carcase, even if you didn't attach every shelf.

You will find the case in the book "In the Shaker Style".

I'll dig it out tonight, thanks.


There is an article in the August issue of FWW that covers the backs for
cabinets. It includes all that was discussed here as well as the frame and
panel. :-)

A very common old style is lapped slats. Vertical slats, say 4" wide
with lapping joints that allow for expansion and contraction without
causing any visible gaps. Look up some stickley design books for the
exact joint but any simple lap is OK, you only need about 1/4" of play
in in each joint. Just let them float in a channel at top and
bottom.


On May 29, 9:55 am, wrote:
Hello,

I am thinking of building a bookcase. I am wanting it to be done
rather nicely(ie. dovetailed tops, wooden standards, sliding
dovetails, ect.). However, I do not know what to do for the
backing ,and I do not want plywood backing on it. Any suggestions?

Thanks for all the suggestions. Now I will figure out what one I like
best. Thanks again.

Be careful with balance. If you use 1/4" ply in the back you lose a
lot of weight. I've seen the mistake made on a bookcase with a glass
door that didn't have a heavy enough weight in the back back and it
would tip over when the door opened if it wasn't full of books.

I won't say exactly who made the msitake but i do see him in the
mirror every morning.


On May 31, 6:50 am, wrote:
Thanks for all the suggestions. Now I will figure out what one I like
best. Thanks again.

On Thu, 31 May 2007 18:15:31 -0700, "SonomaProducts.com"
wrote:

Be careful with balance. If you use 1/4" ply in the back you lose a
lot of weight. I've seen the mistake made on a bookcase with a glass
door that didn't have a heavy enough weight in the back back and it
would tip over when the door opened if it wasn't full of books.

I won't say exactly who made the msitake but i do see him in the
mirror every morning.


On May 31, 6:50 am, wrote:
Thanks for all the suggestions. Now I will figure out what one I like
best. Thanks again.


Another mistake... I don't live in an earthquake zone anymore, but
tall bookcases should be fastened at the top and into studs using
L-brackets. Filing cabinets can easily tip too.

i just picked up some beaded plywood siding at menards, 4x8 sheet with
i'd guess 2" wide bead
kinda puts you in mind of old fashioned wains coat. oh also it's 3/8
thick. i'm puting it on a vaulted ceiling. might work fo your
application.
ross
www.highislandexport.com
www.sandlakeoutpost.com

On 29 May 2007 09:55:57 -0700, wrote:

Hello,

I am thinking of building a bookcase. I am wanting it to be done
rather nicely(ie. dovetailed tops, wooden standards, sliding
dovetails, ect.). However, I do not know what to do for the
backing ,and I do not want plywood backing on it. Any suggestions?


I used 1/4" ply on my bookcases. It is stable, strong, lightweight
and prevents racking. Nobody can tell I used ply, yet it looks old
because I used cherry sawtooth standards. You could use lapped solid
wood but this will add considerable weight, plus you will need to plan
for the expansion/contraction,

On May 29, 12:55 pm, wrote:
Hello,

I am thinking of building a bookcase. I am wanting it to be done
rather nicely(ie. dovetailed tops, wooden standards, sliding
dovetails, ect.). However, I do not know what to do for the
backing ,and I do not want plywood backing on it. Any suggestions?

Plywood. You won't see it once the bookcase is loaded.

Don't sweat over "crap" grade secondary wood. Some of the finest
antiques had absolute crap backs and drawer bottoms.

Father Haskell wrote:
On May 29, 12:55 pm, wrote:
Hello,

I am thinking of building a bookcase. I am wanting it to be done
rather nicely(ie. dovetailed tops, wooden standards, sliding
dovetails, ect.). However, I do not know what to do for the
backing ,and I do not want plywood backing on it. Any suggestions?

Plywood. You won't see it once the bookcase is loaded.

Don't sweat over "crap" grade secondary wood. Some of the finest
antiques had absolute crap backs and drawer bottoms.

And, some had very fine frame and panel, others used slats, ...

For the "rather nicely" finished, one would presume the use envisioned
doesn't include loading it up completely w/ paperbacks...

--