Excellent! I like all your ideas; esp make the stiles the legs.
That'll work! For approximately 20" of length, how much of that should
be M & T? Two or three each 3" long tenons? Or could they be shorter?
Are tenons 1/2 or 1/3 the thickness of board?

Thank you, thank you...I am not worthy...(bowing down).

dave

Swingman wrote:

"Bay Area Dave" wrote in message


1) Best way to secure ply top (overhanging style) to side panels.


Cleats screwed and glued to the inside and flush with the top of the top
aprons. Predrill vertical holes to attach the top with wood screws through
the cleats. Advantage is simplicity and use of project scraps. Plywood top
is stable enough to not have to worry about movement and you can even use
glue if you feel it will be an advantage to do so.


2) Best joinery for side to back panel


Best and strongest is M & T


3) Should back panel's lower edge be at same height as bottom of drawer

box?

4) Should the back panel be joined to right panel, or left face of
drawer box.


Consider the concept of making the drawer box, in essence, a floor sitting
"cabinet", with the top attached to it and extending to appropriate back and
one side panel.

Joinery becomes less of an issue with this method, although I would still
use rail, stile and panel for the side, and the back of the desk (if it is
not going up against a wall).

For the side panel, and the one corner where the back and side panel join,
consider using the stiles as legs. This way you only need two legs to cut M
& T and the groove for side and back panels.

Take a look at a many roll top desk designs and you will see that they use a
similar structural approach (drawer cabinets, joined by top structure) ...
in your case you will only use one side "cabinet".

Just one of many approaches.

Swingman, thanks for the primer on the M&T's!

even though my rail/stile router bits are for 3/4" material only, I'm
getting interested in doing 1" thick r/s because I like the look of that
thickness (I am sitting at my pc desk, which has 1" thick sides made up
of r/s / panels.) Since I can't run a proper profile on the R/S with my
router bits, I was thinking of just grooving them and using some other
bit for the edge treatment around the panel sides of the r/s. As a
matter of fact, on the desk I'm sitting at, they didn't run any edge
detail around the panel. That's a bit plain, though, for my taste.

The depth of the mortise in 1" would be around 13/16", right? and then
make the tenons 1/16" to 1/8" shallower? Like I mentioned earlier, I've
got the DP mortiser kit, BUT I don't have any mortising chisels. Isn't
it imperative that I clean up the mortises with those types of chisels?
I'm not Neander equipped yet. I've got one simple 3/4" wide chisel.


Did I miss where you remarked on how MANY of these M&T's I should use
along approximately 20" of joint length?

I'm always open to suggestions, and Leon has given me some food for
thought on this project. I'll have to consider my ability to accomplish
a particular joinery method before I decide to go for it. Maybe it's
time to pick up some decent (not TOO expensive, and something with large
handles) chisels...

dave



Swingman wrote:

"Bay Area Dave" wrote in message

Excellent! I like all your ideas; esp make the stiles the legs.


That'll work! For approximately 20" of length, how much of that should
be M & T? Two or three each 3" long tenons?
Or could they be shorter?
Are tenons 1/2 or 1/3 the thickness of board?


For planning purposes, and if you like this concept, I would think of the
back and side panel assemblies as a 'frame and panel door', with the stiles
extending down and acting as legs.

Any techniques that can be used to capture a panel between frames will work.
Just damn near every ww mag on the stands will have a project with frame and
panels of some type. Simply extend the stiles to floor and you have legs.

Also, thinking this way may make your planing the postion of the mortises
and panel capturing grooves a bit easier. You will benefit by drawing it out
first ... DAMHIKT.

IME, it is best to always plan, layout and cut your motises first, then cut
your tenons to fit the mortises.

Base the M&T joints (in this particular case, what is known as a
"Grooved-Frame Mortise and Tenon Joint) on the dimension AND postion of the
aprons or rails on the leg, on the dimension of your stock for both legs
(stiles) and rails, as well as on the dado/groove your're going to need to
capture the side and back panels.

With regard to M&T dimensions: My personal preference is try to keep single,
non through tenons narrower than roughly 4" in width and generally about
13/16" in length, for a 1" deep mortise ... anything over that width and you
may face dimensional stability problems unless you "double" them.

On wide tenons, I often cut the haunch (NOT THE SHOULDERS) short to give a
bit of room for expansion. You will want to leave some glue room with regard
to depth, thus the shorter length of the tenon for the deeper mortise.

Match your tenon thickness to your mortises. In thicker leg stock you may
want a 3/8" wide mortise ... although I often use 1/4" on smaller tables.
Either works well with 3/4" apron/rail stock IME.

For the racking forces involved in moving a desk around, 3/8" would allow
you to err on the cautious side.


Thank you, thank you...I am not worthy...(bowing down).


LOL ... I am sure that many others will come up with equal or better
options, so keep 'em open for now.

"Bay Area Dave" wrote in message
Swingman, thanks for the primer on the M&T's!

The depth of the mortise in 1" would be around 13/16", right? and then
make the tenons 1/16" to 1/8" shallower?

In this case, make your mortises 1" deep and your tenons a little less,
13/16" +/- ... gives you some room for excess glue to pool and not push the
tenon back out.

Like I mentioned earlier, I've
got the DP mortiser kit, BUT I don't have any mortising chisels. Isn't
it imperative that I clean up the mortises with those types of chisels?
I'm not Neander equipped yet. I've got one simple 3/4" wide chisel.

I usually use a 1/2" and 1/4" chisel to clean them up .. hell, even a rasp
will work if you're careful.

Did I miss where you remarked on how MANY of these M&T's I should use
along approximately 20" of joint length?

I like Leon's suggestion of a "modesty" panel as the back ... that would
make your M&T joints exactly 4, two on the inside face of each leg for the
end panel and simplify your joinery even more. The "modesty panel" can be
mounted any number of ways, including metal brackets that would make removal
very easy. Leon's "pins" would work well also.


I'm always open to suggestions, and Leon has given me some food for
thought on this project. I'll have to consider my ability to accomplish
a particular joinery method before I decide to go for it. Maybe it's
time to pick up some decent (not TOO expensive, and something with large
handles) chisels...

The best deal on inexpensive chisels, IMO, are the blue handle Marples, made
in Sheffield, England. A set of six will run you about $60 and they are
readily available. You can generally buy them one at a time, even at the
Borgs.

Good luck ...

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 8/24/03

I'm still confused on one thing:

If the stiles are 1" thick, and I don't want the mortises to show, they
would have to be SOME dimension LESS than an inch. I must have used the
wrong terms in my previous post...

dave

Swingman wrote:

"Bay Area Dave" wrote in message

Swingman, thanks for the primer on the M&T's!

The depth of the mortise in 1" would be around 13/16", right? and then
make the tenons 1/16" to 1/8" shallower?


In this case, make your mortises 1" deep and your tenons a little less,
13/16" +/- ... gives you some room for excess glue to pool and not push the
tenon back out.


Like I mentioned earlier, I've
got the DP mortiser kit, BUT I don't have any mortising chisels. Isn't
it imperative that I clean up the mortises with those types of chisels?
I'm not Neander equipped yet. I've got one simple 3/4" wide chisel.
snip

Sorry if I confused you ... yes, your mortise would certainly be less than
1" wide in the leg.

Tradition calls for 1/3 the width of the piece in which the tenon is cut ...
in your example, this would equate to 1/3".

In actual practice these days you generally base it on the size of one of
your mortising chisels.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 8/24/03


"Bay Area Dave" wrote in message

I'm still confused on one thing:

If the stiles are 1" thick, and I don't want the mortises to show, they
would have to be SOME dimension LESS than an inch. I must have used the
wrong terms in my previous post...

Bay Area Dave wrote:

even though my rail/stile router bits are for 3/4" material only, I'm
getting interested in doing 1" thick r/s because I like the look of that
thickness (I am sitting at my pc desk, which has 1" thick sides made up
of r/s / panels.) Since I can't run a proper profile on the R/S with my
router bits, I was thinking of just grooving them and using some other
bit for the edge treatment around the panel sides of the r/s. As a
matter of fact, on the desk I'm sitting at, they didn't run any edge
detail around the panel. That's a bit plain, though, for my taste.


Dave,

Swingman & Leon have given you some great ideas for the construction. As
for a profile on the rail & stile portions what would you think of just
doing a chamfer cut, say beginning & ending 1-1/2 to 2" from each
intersection? It would definitely break up the "plain" look.

Scott
--
An unkind remark is like a killing frost. No matter how much it warms
up later, the damage remains.

good idea, Scott! thanks.

dave

Scott Brownell wrote:
snip
Dave,

Swingman & Leon have given you some great ideas for the construction. As
for a profile on the rail & stile portions what would you think of just
doing a chamfer cut, say beginning & ending 1-1/2 to 2" from each
intersection? It would definitely break up the "plain" look.

Scott