I make wire brushes from KD Beech. It is a problem when we ship to
California because 5% of the brushes split by the time they get there. I'm
thinking it's due to pressure changes when crossing the mountains. One
thought I have is to let the blocks sit for a month to let them normalize
then drill and fill them. I tried to talk to the tree designer about the
warrantee.

In article , "Tom Gardner" wrote:
I make wire brushes from KD Beech. It is a problem when we ship to
California because 5% of the brushes split by the time they get there. I'm
thinking it's due to pressure changes when crossing the mountains. One
thought I have is to let the blocks sit for a month to let them normalize
then drill and fill them. I tried to talk to the tree designer about the
warrantee.

More likely, it's due to humidity changes.

You might talk to your supplier about drying the lumber to a lower moisture
content. That will drive up your lumber costs, though, and probably by more
than your current five percent loss rate.

Do you have to use beech? Birch might be a better choice.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

"Doug Miller" wrote in message
news
In article , "Tom
Gardner" wrote:
I make wire brushes from KD Beech. It is a problem when we ship to
California because 5% of the brushes split by the time they get there.
I'm
thinking it's due to pressure changes when crossing the mountains. One
thought I have is to let the blocks sit for a month to let them normalize
then drill and fill them. I tried to talk to the tree designer about the
warrantee.

More likely, it's due to humidity changes.

You might talk to your supplier about drying the lumber to a lower
moisture
content. That will drive up your lumber costs, though, and probably by
more
than your current five percent loss rate.

Do you have to use beech? Birch might be a better choice.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

Birch is too soft. I can use Maple but the cost...

In article , "Tom Gardner" wrote:

"Doug Miller" wrote in message
news

Do you have to use beech? Birch might be a better choice.

Birch is too soft. I can use Maple but the cost...

You'd better check that again. Yellow birch is only about four percent less
hard than beech -- and sweet birch is about ten percent *harder*.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

On Feb 16, 9:43 am, "Tom Gardner" wrote:
I make wire brushes from KD Beech. It is a problem when we ship to
California because 5% of the brushes split by the time they get there. I'm
thinking it's due to pressure changes when crossing the mountains. One
thought I have is to let the blocks sit for a month to let them normalize
then drill and fill them. I tried to talk to the tree designer about the
warrantee.

Have you looked at steamed beech. My supplier has it for about the
same cost and if I remember right he said that the steaming not only
evens out the color it also relieves the internal pressure created by
drying and makes the wood less likely to split. At least that's what
he told me. Hope that helps. bc

Humidity is usually the cause of splitting, specifically changes in
humidity that are not even within the wood. One part dries faster than
another and this stresses the wood and can lead to cracks.
I am guessing these items are not finished or have a very porous
finish. A better finish will slow down humidity changes and reduce
cracking.
Brad
====
trim==

I suspect it is the drilling. I assume you have a 4/4 thick piece of
stock and you drill a bunch of holes 1/2 to 3/4 of the way through in
a very tight patten. Then those are then filled with some bristles.
Drilling all those holes opens the wood up to some incredible
absorbtion and exhaustion (is that a word) so the speed at which this
wood will start to dry out or absorbe is radically accelerated with
all that new surface area and path to internal zones.

I think maybe not drilling so deep, drilling and letting set for a
month or making the handle thicker or devising some pattern of kerfs
to help equalize the stress on the non drilled side mught be the
ticket.

Another possibility might be to dunk the whole wood piece in shellac
before gluing in the bristles. This also might minimize the
absorbtion.

BW


On Feb 16, 7:43 am, "Tom Gardner" wrote:
I make wire brushes from KD Beech. It is a problem when we ship to
California because 5% of the brushes split by the time they get there. I'm
thinking it's due to pressure changes when crossing the mountains. One
thought I have is to let the blocks sit for a month to let them normalize
then drill and fill them. I tried to talk to the tree designer about the
warrantee.

On Fri, 16 Feb 2007 15:43:57 GMT, "Tom Gardner"
wrote:

I make wire brushes from KD Beech. It is a problem when we ship to
California because 5% of the brushes split by the time they get there. I'm
thinking it's due to pressure changes when crossing the mountains. One
thought I have is to let the blocks sit for a month to let them normalize
then drill and fill them. I tried to talk to the tree designer about the
warrantee.

If everything else is fine, ie if you could magically teleport the
brushes to the destination they would acclimate fine without cracking,
then I would look into how to package them to insulate them from the
changes they see in shipping rather than how to change the product.


-Leuf

In article , Leuf wrote:
On Fri, 16 Feb 2007 15:43:57 GMT, "Tom Gardner"
wrote:

I make wire brushes from KD Beech. It is a problem when we ship to
California because 5% of the brushes split by the time they get there. I'm
thinking it's due to pressure changes when crossing the mountains. One
thought I have is to let the blocks sit for a month to let them normalize
then drill and fill them. I tried to talk to the tree designer about the
warrantee.

If everything else is fine, ie if you could magically teleport the
brushes to the destination they would acclimate fine without cracking,
then I would look into how to package them to insulate them from the
changes they see in shipping rather than how to change the product.

Perhaps -- but I think substituting yellow birch for beech should be the first
try. The large difference in hardness imagined by the OP just doesn't exist,
and birch is more stable.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

"Tom Gardner" wrote in message
. net...
I make wire brushes from KD Beech. It is a problem when we ship to
California because 5% of the brushes split by the time they get there.
I'm
thinking it's due to pressure changes when crossing the mountains. One
thought I have is to let the blocks sit for a month to let them normalize
then drill and fill them. I tried to talk to the tree designer about the
warrantee.



Some items like ice cream and potato chips are shipped via the southern
route to avoid the pressure problem. I suppose that you could make up a
test batch and place them in a vacuum chamber to simulate the atmospheric
change.

As a side story when I was driving a truck, I had a pint size bottle of
Clorox In my laundry bag and when I got to Wyoming I smelled bleach and
found that the pressure in the bottle had broken the cap and the stuff had
leaked all over my bunk. Punched some nice holes in my sleeping bag and my
jeans. Also once when I stopped to make my self a sandwich, I twisted the
top on the mustard bottle and the pressure inside sprayed my face and shirt
with mustard.

--

Roger Shoaf

About the time I had mastered getting the toothpaste back in the tube, then
they come up with this striped stuff.

In article ,
Tom Gardner wrote:
I make wire brushes from KD Beech. It is a problem when we ship to
California because 5% of the brushes split by the time they get there...
...snipped...

5% loss? Man, what a beech.



--
When the game is over, the pawn and the king are returned to the same box.

Larry Wasserman - Baltimore Maryland - lwasserm(a)sdf.lonestar.org

"SonomaProducts.com" wrote in message
oups.com...
I suspect it is the drilling. I assume you have a 4/4 thick piece of
stock and you drill a bunch of holes 1/2 to 3/4 of the way through in
a very tight patten. Then those are then filled with some bristles.
Drilling all those holes opens the wood up to some incredible
absorbtion and exhaustion (is that a word) so the speed at which this
wood will start to dry out or absorbe is radically accelerated with
all that new surface area and path to internal zones.

That's true!


I think maybe not drilling so deep, drilling and letting set for a
month or making the handle thicker or devising some pattern of kerfs
to help equalize the stress on the non drilled side mught be the
ticket.

Another possibility might be to dunk the whole wood piece in shellac
before gluing in the bristles. This also might minimize the
absorbtion.

BW

Hole depth must be to spec, dimmentions must be to spec. The brush goes
into food service and no chemicals are allowed. Unfortunatly, there's no
room to increase cost or raise price.

"Doug Miller" wrote in message
t...
In article , "Tom
Gardner" wrote:

"Doug Miller" wrote in message
news

Do you have to use beech? Birch might be a better choice.

Birch is too soft. I can use Maple but the cost...

You'd better check that again. Yellow birch is only about four percent
less
hard than beech -- and sweet birch is about ten percent *harder*.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

I talked to my supplier and the cost shocked me!

"Tom Gardner" wrote in message
et...
Hole depth must be to spec, dimmentions must be to spec. The brush goes
into food service and no chemicals are allowed. Unfortunatly, there's no
room to increase cost or raise price.



Well, easy solution is to climate-control the trip. Assuming that it's not
the wonderful dry heat of the interior of CA that's doing you in on arrival.
Beech isn't the nicest wood, and the rays are a built-in point of weakness
which your QS methods might be putting at even greater risk.

Beech sure splits easily for the furnace.

In article , "Tom Gardner" wrote:

Hole depth must be to spec, dimmentions must be to spec. The brush goes
into food service and no chemicals are allowed. Unfortunatly, there's no
room to increase cost or raise price.

Shellac is food-safe. For that matter, pretty much any cured finish is
food-safe, but I'm pretty sure that shellac already has FDA approval
(considering that it's used to coat candy and pills).

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

In article , "Tom Gardner" wrote:

"Doug Miller" wrote in message
et...
In article , "Tom
Gardner" wrote:

"Doug Miller" wrote in message
news

Do you have to use beech? Birch might be a better choice.

Birch is too soft. I can use Maple but the cost...

You'd better check that again. Yellow birch is only about four percent less
hard than beech -- and sweet birch is about ten percent *harder*.

I talked to my supplier and the cost shocked me!

Maybe you need to talk to another supplier.

Here's another option for you, too: buy birch, but in a lower grade.

Presumably, these brush handles are fairly small items; I'm guessing that you
could probably cut one from a blank about a foot long by an inch or so square,
no?

You don't have to buy FAS or Select lumber to get clear cuttings that small;
#2 or #3 COM will work just fine. Sure, there's more work involved in cutting
the stock, but the difference in the cost of material is *huge*. And the waste
material can be burned to help heat your building.

Whether that difference in material cost is big enough to compensate for the
extra cost in preparation is something that only you can decide. But I think
it's worth considering.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

Maybe you need to talk to another supplier.

Here's another option for you, too: buy birch, but in a lower grade.

Presumably, these brush handles are fairly small items; I'm guessing that
you
could probably cut one from a blank about a foot long by an inch or so
square,
no?

You don't have to buy FAS or Select lumber to get clear cuttings that
small;
#2 or #3 COM will work just fine. Sure, there's more work involved in
cutting
the stock, but the difference in the cost of material is *huge*. And the
waste
material can be burned to help heat your building.

Whether that difference in material cost is big enough to compensate for
the
extra cost in preparation is something that only you can decide. But I
think
it's worth considering.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

Valid points, all. However, this is surely a twisty road. I've discovered
that low grades of lumber have huge hidden costs of labor per good block,
electricity, handling costs and disposal costs. I know it doesn't make
sence but our studies over the past 20 years or so show it. I think that
with a huge decree of computer controlled automation, it could work but
we're not there.

"Tom Gardner" wrote:

Unfortunatly, there's no
room to increase cost or raise price.

If you have a 5% loss from damage, there is at least 4 1/2% room in the
price to correct it. .

"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
et...

"Tom Gardner" wrote:

Unfortunatly, there's no
room to increase cost or raise price.

If you have a 5% loss from damage, there is at least 4 1/2% room in the
price to correct it. .


Good point! My first experiment will only cost inventory expences to age
the blocks for a month or so. I'll keep records and lot# and every part has
a date of Mfg, stamped when it gets made into a brush. I only have beech
with no finish approved, this customer took 6 months to approve a change in
handle screw head from Philips to square, and they freaked about that...I
had to beg.

On Feb 16, 11:20 am, (Doug Miller) wrote:
In article , "Tom Gardner" wrote:
I make wire brushes from KD Beech. It is a problem when we ship to
California because 5% of the brushes split by the time they get there. I'm
thinking it's due to pressure changes when crossing the mountains. One
thought I have is to let the blocks sit for a month to let them normalize
then drill and fill them. I tried to talk to the tree designer about the
warrantee.

More likely, it's due to humidity changes.

I'd say it's certain. People fly airplanes made with
wood. They experience much larger pressure changes
applied much more rapidly and they do not (usually)
fall apart at altitude.

(To Mr Gardner)
Are you up on the North Coast?
Is there a difference in 'survival' rate between
brushes made in the (dry) winter vs those made
in the (humid) summer?

--

FF

On Feb 17, 5:45 am, "Tom Gardner" wrote:
"Doug Miller" wrote in message

t...



In article , "Tom
Gardner" wrote:

"Doug Miller" wrote in message
news

Do you have to use beech? Birch might be a better choice.

Birch is too soft. I can use Maple but the cost...

You'd better check that again. Yellow birch is only about four percent
less
hard than beech -- and sweet birch is about ten percent *harder*.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

I talked to my supplier and the cost shocked me!

No surprise. There is a lot of beech in Ohio, not
much birch. A big part of the cost of wood is
transportation cost. There is also a lot less
demand for beech, it's primary use seems to
be for making fake maple furniture.

--

FF

On Feb 17, 1:51 am, "Tom Gardner" wrote:

...

Another possibility might be to dunk the whole wood piece in shellac
before gluing in the bristles. This also might minimize the
absorbtion.

BW

Hole depth must be to spec, dimmentions must be to spec. The brush goes
into food service and no chemicals are allowed. Unfortunatly, there's no
room to increase cost or raise price.

Beech is tight grained and has a reputation for being
difficult to kiln dry without a lot of waste. A local
sawyer will not even try to kiln dry it in thicknesses,
over 4/4. Probably your supplier needs to dry
it on a schedule that holds it at temperature longer,
which will raise the cost.

Shellac would probably help too, but you've
indicated that it would have to go through a
long approval process, despite being approved
in other food applications.

--

FF

(To Mr Gardner)
Are you up on the North Coast?
Is there a difference in 'survival' rate between
brushes made in the (dry) winter vs those made
in the (humid) summer?

--

FF


It comes in spurts. Sometime we see fine checking in a batch and know there
will be trouble. We try to weed out the worst and pray for the best. We've
got the kilning conditions, the weather and the trees themselves to deal
with. What can you say...it's wood!

Beech is tight grained and has a reputation for being
difficult to kiln dry without a lot of waste. A local
sawyer will not even try to kiln dry it in thicknesses,
over 4/4. Probably your supplier needs to dry
it on a schedule that holds it at temperature longer,
which will raise the cost.

Shellac would probably help too, but you've
indicated that it would have to go through a
long approval process, despite being approved
in other food applications.

--

FF



If you ever want to hear a good belly laugh, order a bunk or two of 6/4
beech FAS.

Fri, Feb 16, 2007, 3:43pm (EST+5) (Tom*Gardner) doth
sayeth:
I make wire brushes from KD Beech. It is a problem when we ship to
California snip

Who can blaim 'em? I wouldn't want to live their either.



JOAT
When in doubt, go to sleep.
- Mully Small