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#1
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Glue Power
For some reason, this morning I was reminded of some of the people
who've asked for stronger wood glue. According to what I've read, the wood glue made today, any brand, is stronger than the wood. You don't actually need "stronger" glue. If you don't believe it, take a couple of scrap chunks of 2X4, glue them edge to edge with the wood glue of your choie, clamp 'em, let 'em sit for a couple of days, and try to get them apart. The first router table I made wasn't doing what I wanted, so decided to recycle the wood, and make a new one. I recyclesd it - after awhile. I had to beat it apart with my baby sledge hammer - a regular sledge hammer with a handle cut down to about 12". It wasn't a matter of a couple of light taps and it fell apart. It was more a matter of a bunch of full strength blows, and then it either split the pieces along the middle, or the food failed along the glue lines. It was the wood that failed, not the glue. The glue was Titebond II. I glued some pieces up at about 55F once. Then for whatever reason, decided that wasn't what I wanted. Used a chisel at the glue line and a couple of taps with a mallet popped it on the glue line neat as can be. That time it was the glue the failed. But the reason for that was it was too cold when I glued it up. I've tried the chisel at the glue line on "good" glue joints too. It usually pops the pieces apart at the glue line too - however, even thos it does part at the glue line, it is the wood that gives, not the glue, it pulls small chunks out of one of the pieces. Don't believe it, try it. I did have a piece I needed to take apart, without destroying it. I figured out I could saw it apart, eventually. Would have taken quite awhile tho, and I would have had to really pay a lot of attention to do a good job. So, called the 1-800 number on the bottle. The glue was Titebond II, as always. The tech guy told me head would do it. So, used hair blower on the joint, on high. Probably took me 10-15 minutes of steady work and twisting and turning before it came loose and a couple more minutes before it actually parted ways. The section was only about 6" long, but about 2" thick, so there was a pretty fair sized glue joint. As I understand it the strength of any of the glues is stronger than the wood. The set-up time can vary, as the losest temperature the glue should b used at. I happen to like Titebond II so I stick with it. It does everything I need a woodworking glue to do and I figure on keeping using it. So if you're worried about what glue to use, I'd suggest buying the smallest bottles of whatever glues you're interested in and testing them. I din't have anything better to do while I drank my cuppa tea before I go to town and check the mail. Got a neat book in t he mail yesterday, and expecting another today. Life is basically good. JOAT When in doubt, go to sleep. - Mully Small |
#2
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Glue Power
On 14 Feb, 16:39, (J T) wrote:
I've tried the chisel at the glue line on "good" glue joints too. It usually pops the pieces apart at the glue line too - however, even thos it does part at the glue line, it is the wood that gives, not the glue, it pulls small chunks out of one of the pieces. There's a reason for why a joint tends to fail at the glue line, and it applies whether the glue or the wood is the strongest. It's the discontinuity of properties that causes the weakness, not the absolute strength of either. Particularly if one material is stiffer (not stronger) than the other. Wood and wood glue are both weak. A localised force applied to them will easily break either -- they're only strong when used in large sections and any sort of prybar (or chisel, you heathen!) is "small" in comparison. The discontinuity merely acts to localise the force applied and that's enough to break it. |
#3
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Glue Power
On Feb 14, 10:39 am, (J T) wrote:
For some reason, this morning I was reminded of some of the people who've asked for stronger wood glue. My good man, The people of this group are well aware that a properly made glue joint is stronger than the surrounding material so you have gained little with your post. I learned this fact in high school shop class when we performed a similar demostration where you glue up jointed material and then take a chisel to it. It's a classic that probably every beginning woodworking class does. Now a glue that will last longer that's another question. Most of the wood glues we use will not adhere forever and most any glue joint will fail eventually unless the piece is very carefully stored. Stronger glues are available but have drawbacks. Fifty years is good service for a glue joint in my mind however. By the time it fails it's someones else problem, haha. One theory is that you don't wan't a permanent joint that will never come apart. That takes into consideration future generations of crafsmen who will be asked to repair the object. Work with furniture repair has taught me that it is always best to perform repairs that are reversable and that is the highest standard for valuable pieces like antiques. Regular wood glue can be coaxed into failure if necessary for the purposes of the crafsman. Epoxies and the like cannot. I like my epoxy but regular wood glue is a better all around adhesive for woodworking. |
#5
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Glue Power
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#6
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Glue Power
On 14 Feb, 17:29, "lwhaley" wrote:
Work with furniture repair has taught me that it is always best to perform repairs that are reversable Strength doesn't necessarily imply irreversibility (and thus reversibility doesn't require the joint to be weak). If you can dismantle the joint chemically (by solvents or hot steam) such that you don't need to lever it apart, then you can have it as strong as you like in the meantime. |
#7
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Glue Power
J T wrote:
7) Work with furniture repair has taught me that it is always best to perform repairs that are reversable and that is the highest standard for valuable pieces like antiques. snip 7) We weren' talking antiques.**Anyway,*for*antiques*I'd*go*to*an accredited antique restorer. It's not just for antiques. Surely you've made something for your chikdren or grandchildren with the hope (by them or you) that it will be passed on to future generations. A cradle, a crib, a dresser, etc.. If so, it will eventually need repair. It's nice to be able to replace a component without wrecking the joints. -- It's turtles, all the way down |
#8
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Glue Power
On 15 Feb, 17:27, Larry Blanchard wrote:
It's not just for antiques. I only ever make antiques or workshop cupboards. It's just not worth making anything _unless_ you're hoping it will survive to be a valued antique and so you put the effort into it. For aanything else, there's Ikea. They do it quicker, cheaper and even sometimes better than an individual can. |
#9
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Glue Power
for antiques I'd go to an
accredited antique restorer. I do not know what is an accredited antique restorer. Could you please point me in the proper direction to learn about them. TIA "Larry Blanchard" wrote in message ... J T wrote: 7) Work with furniture repair has taught me that it is always best to perform repairs that are reversable and that is the highest standard for valuable pieces like antiques. snip 7) We weren' talking antiques. Anyway, for antiques I'd go to an accredited antique restorer. It's not just for antiques. Surely you've made something for your chikdren or grandchildren with the hope (by them or you) that it will be passed on to future generations. A cradle, a crib, a dresser, etc.. If so, it will eventually need repair. It's nice to be able to replace a component without wrecking the joints. -- It's turtles, all the way down |
#11
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Glue Power
On Feb 15, 10:18 am, "Andy Dingley" wrote:
On 14 Feb, 17:29, "lwhaley" wrote: Work with furniture repair has taught me that it is always best to perform repairs that are reversable Strength doesn't necessarily imply irreversibility (and thus reversibility doesn't require the joint to be weak). If you can dismantle the joint chemically (by solvents or hot steam) such that you don't need to lever it apart, then you can have it as strong as you like in the meantime. We are in agreement and didn't mean to imply that reversable repairs are weak. They can be stronger than the surrounding wood. I just meant to say that they can be desirable compared to less reversable repairs like epoxy but you have explaned it well. Epoxy is, however, difficult to repair, that's the downside. I never try to coax apart any epoxy. I use a syringe with a solvent, starting with warm water, that I inject in to stubborn joints that are glued normally. In a well constructed piece the joint does most of the work and will out last the glue by far. Many older pieces no longer have good glue but the quality of the joints will hold it together. Even a well constructed dowel joint can last a long time. Where I live up north we have an extreme of temperature and humidity that is hard on furnitrue and I see a lot of failed glue joints even on relatively new chairs. |
#12
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Glue Power
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#13
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Glue Power
Interesting. I just watched an episode of How It's Made. Among
several, they showed making violins. The only fastener used is glue, and they expect it to last a long time. It also showed how toilet paper is made, perhaps the single most important thing in the galaxy. They use glue to make the cardboard rolls, and to glue the end down. JOAT When in doubt, go to sleep. - Mully Small |
#14
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Glue Power
"J T" wrote in message ... It also showed how toilet paper is made, perhaps the single most important thing in the galaxy. They use glue to make the cardboard rolls, and to glue the end down. JOAT And to think I had you pegged as a corn cob (cheap) kinda guy...will wonders ever ceaseG?...Rod |
#15
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Glue Power
Rod & Betty Jo wrote:
And to think I had you pegged as a corn cob (cheap) kinda guy...will wonders ever ceaseG? Which begs the question: Why are there both red and white corn cobs found in an outhouse? Answer: First you use a red one, Then you use a white one, To see if you need to use another red one. (A little Chic Sales humor there) Lew |
#16
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Glue Power
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#17
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Glue Power
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