On Sat, 10 Feb 2007 12:10:37 +0000 (UTC), Bruce Barnett
wrote:

Lew Hodgett writes:

The attention span of a 5.5 year old is limited at best when it comes
to building things.

Find a decent hobby shop, buy a SIMPLE model ship kit, and assemble it.

One option is to "wing it" - make a solid pine hull using a bandsaw or
belt sander. Do this ahead of time, as it's not something you want
him to attempt.

No reason he can't saw it out with a jeweler's saw.

You present the kid with the hull, and then ask hom
what should we do next. You can add masts, sails, strong, life
preservers, or whatever you want. Let him paint it and add whatever he
likes on the deck. Maybe add an additional "layer" in the aft (IANAS)
with ladders, the wheel for steering, portholes, lifeboats,
etc. etc. etc. Suggest things to add if he's not sure.

Let the kid decorate it. Buy some miniatures and let him paint them, and glue them on.

And then - try floating the thing in a bathtub. It may not be stable -
never tried. May have to add some weights to the bottom to keep it
bottom heavy.

The point is, once you make the hull - the rest of the design is left up to the kid.
It lets him use his imagination - and he can be as silly as he wants to be, or as serious.
He wants a four-poster bed on top, and a hot tub with a TV. Sure.

It's unstructured, and open-ended. He might be done with it soon, or may keep going.
Let him decide when it's done.

If he had fun, then perhaps take him to a hobby shop and look at the
easy models. See if he wants to do something more "sophisticated."

You will have the memories of the first model, and every model he makes
afterwords can only get better. I bet you will have memories of the "first model"
for a long time - even if it's the only one he makes.

"Ignoramus8098" wrote in
message ...
My 5.5 year old son wants to make a model ship. I made
something with
my dad when I was about same age, from plywood, and he wants to
have
his own. I do not want to get into "show quality" esoteric
stuff. I
want to have a project where he can participate meaningfully.
Any
suggestions as to the choice of materials etc.

Ideally, I am hoping to be able to find some sort of "dense
cardboard"
type material that is easy to work with, etc. In the end I
would epoxy
it.

any suggestions.


A chunk of 2 x 6 he can use a small back saw to cut a bow on. Add
a couple of staggered decks using 1 x 4, 1 x 3, and 1 x 2. A
couple of 3" lengths of 1/2" dowel for smoke stacks, and your son
has the start of a fleet that floats. Let him bang in nails to
fasten things together (predrilling starter holes will make it
easier for him to keep them straight), and use the exterior
colors of his choice to paint it up.

I remember building one of these with my Dad when I was about
that age, and being so proud when it was done I could bust. I was
also the envy of the neighbor kids, because I had a "Navy" to
carry my toy soldiers around.

If you want to keep it simpler, use a quart or half gallon waxed
milk or juice container. Lay it on it's side so the spout is up.
Starting just below the spout, mark a line all the way around the
carton. Use a sharp knife, or heavy shears, to cut the spout side
of the carton away. Assist your son in using a small saw to cut a
piece of 1/2" - 3/4" thick balsa wood to fit inside the carton
hull. This is to poke dowels into for making masts that can be
glued in place and smaller dowel "yard arms" fastened to with
twine and glue.

With a 5 year old, keep it simple and have fun.

Len

Thanks for the criticism Mr Clarke, its always usefull to have another
well thought out perspective.

J. Clarke wrote:
On Sat, 10 Feb 2007 11:19:56 +0000, Ian Malcolm
wrote:
snip

Next you want a large block of balsa wood. I see its possible to get
2"x4" a foot long for about $6 or so. You *really* *really* want balsa
wood because its so soft its easy to work with hand tools which means
far far more of it will be his project rather than Daddy's project. A
selection of smaller pieces as well for the superstructure and some pine
dowels for masts etc. should also be got.


I'm not sure he really wants balsa. The stuff is easy to cut but it's
hard to cut _precisely_. It's so soft that unless the knife is
absoluely razor sharp it crushes instead of cutting. Doesn't saw very
well either, tends to clog up the saw teeth with fuzz. It's main
strength is light weight, not workability. Basswood might be a better
bet.

OTOH a decent *sharp* saw will cut it well enough. We arent trying for
accuracy here, all the fine shaping will be done with 40 grit sandpaper
glued to a stick. If he wants to get it flatter than he can cut it, Iggy
should tape a sheet of 40 grit down on a board with plenty of double
sided tape and show him how to lap the work against a flat surface. We
are'nt trying for fine woodworking here and Iggy is going to be
'improving' it a little in the evenings anyway. My childhood experience
with large balsa blocks was they were quite a bit harder than the thin
sections. I guess they select the lightest wood for the model airplane
stuff and the rest is cut for modelmaking. IMHO he should work his way
up onto tougher woods as his desire for strength and accuracy inmroves.


It would be a good idea to get a small saw and hammer, You may need to
take a few inches off the handle for the hammer so it balances in a
kid's hand. These will be *his* tools and you ask before YOU borrow
them. (with what you have around the place, teaching respect for other
peoples tools ASAP would be smart)


A caution--there is a tendency to give kids cheap tools. Resist that
temptation. Kids aren't very strong and they aren't necessarily all
that coordinated--you don't want them fighting a tool that doesn't
work very well besides.
AMEN. *GOOD* tools, preferably good enough so you *will* be asking him
if you can borrow them sometimes.

If you give him a saw make sure it's a saw
that actually _saws_ without much force. A jeweler's saw or fretsaw
might be a good bet--they aren't horribly expensive, they cut just
about anything, downside is that the blades are very fragile--also
it's a very narrow blade so learning to cut straight can be a problem.
Decent fretsaw and a *good* supply of a selection of blades.

In a wide bladed saw bite the bullet and spend the 35 bucks for a 6
inch dozuki. He'll see how a saw is _supposed_ to work.
One of my favorite small saws is a 6" power saw blade mounted to a small
pear-shaped boxwood handle I had lying around. I am not saying its
anywhere near equal to the japanese saws but it cuts better and is
handier than anything else I've seen at the budget to middling end of
the market, I doubt I've got more than £5 and an hours work invested in
it but I'd be seriously upset if it went walkabout. It would be perfect
for cutting balsa. I tend to use it for anything from rigid foam, via
soft and hardwoods to tufnol laminate.

My parents were weird--they turned me loose with an Ex-acto knife at
an early age but wouldn't spring for the jeweler's saw, so I was
forced try cuts that the knife just plain wasn't enough tool to do and
ended up cutting myself regularly as a result.

7 is about the right age to introduce a bright kid to sharp knives,
chisels etc and also a decent hand drill. Power tools even closely
supervised should wait till they've got a good safety record with sharp
edged tools.


With hammers it's harder--he's not strong enough to be accurate with a
hammer that will actually drive a nail of any size. The question is
whether to give him a hammer that he can control but that is going to
take a lot of pounding to drive anything bigger than a brad, or one
that can drive a fair sized nail if he chokes up on it but that is
going to have him missing more than he hits.

Control first. Bending nails and beating the wood to death is
*frustrating*. I was hammering whatever nails I could scrounge off my
dad into offcuts from an early age. Same nails would get extracted, I'd
hammer them streight again and knock them into another offcut. If Iggy
sticks to balsawood etc. this year, the kid wont need to drive big nails
till he's accurate with a light hammer.


--
Ian Malcolm. London, ENGLAND. (NEWSGROUP REPLY PREFERRED)
ianm[at]the[dash]malcolms[dot]freeserve[dot]co[dot]uk [at]=@, [dash]=- &
[dot]=.
*Warning* SPAM TRAP set in header, Use email address in sig. if you must.

On Feb 10, 5:14 am, wrote:
On Fri, 09 Feb 2007 10:32:34 -0600, Ignoramus8098

wrote:
My 5.5 year old son wants to make a model ship. I made something with
my dad when I was about same age, from plywood, and he wants to have
his own. I do not want to get into "show quality" esoteric stuff. I
want to have a project where he can participate meaningfully. Any
suggestions as to the choice of materials etc.

Ideally, I am hoping to be able to find some sort of "dense cardboard"
type material that is easy to work with, etc. In the end I would epoxy
it.

any suggestions.

thanks

Foam insulation - the rigid kind.

Cuts with a sharp knife (good lessons there for the kid) or a hot
wire. You can getnichromefrom a hobby shop and make a simple wooden
U-shaped frame with a hook and spring to tension the wire. It's _fun_
to carve with this setup, and foam is cheap, & will float.

see http://www.pnjresources.com/Nichrome_page.htm for nichrome wire.

On Fri, 09 Feb 2007 12:59:40 -0600, Ignoramus8098 wrote:


You might try some "mat board" from an art supply store or a picture
framing shop. It's a little thicker than 1 mm, maybe 2 mm or so. Pretty
hard to cut it cleanly with scissors; best to use an x-acto knife or
utility knife or a razor blade.

Dan in Wyoming

Dan, that's interesting. Is is easy to glue?

i

Yes. Mat board is basically very thick paper. Can be glued with plain old
white "Elmer's" glue, or superglue (maybe not the best choice for a
5-yr-old!), or epoxy, or rubber cement, or almost any glue you can think of
using. I could foresee you doing the cutting and your small assistant
doing the glue work.
RicodJour mentioned stitch-and-glue, and mat board would lend itself to
that. If you were to drill the holes with a very small drill bit, then
maybe your boy could stitch it together with one of those round-pointed
yarn needles.
Hmmmm.... my 5-yr-old niece is coming to visit one of these months.
Thanks for giving me some ideas- as grandma and grandpa have a pond behind
their house, maybe we will build a little boat when Katie is here.

Dan

"Ignoramus8098" wrote in message
...
My 5.5 year old son wants to make a model ship. I made something with
my dad when I was about same age, from plywood, and he wants to have
his own. I do not want to get into "show quality" esoteric stuff. I
want to have a project where he can participate meaningfully. Any
suggestions as to the choice of materials etc.

Ideally, I am hoping to be able to find some sort of "dense cardboard"
type material that is easy to work with, etc. In the end I would epoxy
it.

any suggestions.

thanks

I would suggest a kit like this

http://tinyurl.com/yvsj6j


it makes a nice display, or if you leave the stands off, would probably
float pretty well.

On 10 Feb 2007 03:35:21 -0800, "Andy Dingley"
wrote:

On 10 Feb, 11:14, wrote:

Foam insulation - the rigid kind.

Cuts with a sharp knife (good lessons there for the kid) or a hot
wire. You can get nichrome from a hobby shop and make a simple wooden
U-shaped frame with a hook and spring to tension the wire.

Don't carve foam insulation with a hot wire. The old polystyrene
insulation was unpleasant for fumes, the modern isocyanate foams cut
much better (no beads) but the fumes from those are really pretty
toxic. As they don't break down into loose beads anyway, they can
sand to shape very quickly.

Hm, didn't know that.

I've been using the blue foam that comes in 2x8 sheets - will have to
check if it is isocyanate. It cuts really nice with the wire (I built
a regulated V and A power supply to get the wire just right) so if it
is maybe I'll cut outside with me upwind...

"Tom S" wrote:


"Ignoramus8098" wrote in message
...
My 5.5 year old son wants to make a model ship. I made something with
my dad when I was about same age, from plywood, and he wants to have
his own. I do not want to get into "show quality" esoteric stuff. I
want to have a project where he can participate meaningfully. Any
suggestions as to the choice of materials etc.

Ideally, I am hoping to be able to find some sort of "dense
cardboard" type material that is easy to work with, etc. In the end I
would epoxy it.

any suggestions.

thanks

I would suggest a kit like this

http://tinyurl.com/yvsj6j


it makes a nice display, or if you leave the stands off, would
probably float pretty well.




For a 5 year old?! I buggered up that one when I was 35.

On Fri, 09 Feb 2007 14:53:14 -0600, Ignoramus8098
wrote:

On Fri, 09 Feb 2007 20:44:43 GMT, Jerry wrote:
Does he expect the play with the model on the local lake, river,
waterbut? be a shame making a kit that didn't float. you might be better
off with a some blocks of wood and a few simple hand tools for the first
one....

I think that my plan with plywood bulkheads is a sensible one. It will
float with enough epoxying and a sensible sized keel. If the deck is
removable, which seems to make sense, it can be later enhanced with
LEDs etc. I will try to make it big enough so that it can be messed
with later (1.5 ft or so).

i


If you are going to that size..how about making a RC controlled sail or
power boat?

They are more than simple enough, you can put a receiver and a couple
servos on a chunk of 2x4 and get it to manuever around a pool or pond.

Rather cheap if you look for an older rc setup. Ive spent as much as $25
on a transmitter, receiver and 1-2 servos G

Gunner

Political Correctness

A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical liberal minority and
rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media,
which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible
to pick up a turd by the clean end.

On 10 Feb 2007 03:35:21 -0800, "Andy Dingley"
wrote:

On 10 Feb, 11:14, wrote:

Foam insulation - the rigid kind.

Cuts with a sharp knife (good lessons there for the kid) or a hot
wire. You can get nichrome from a hobby shop and make a simple wooden
U-shaped frame with a hook and spring to tension the wire.

Don't carve foam insulation with a hot wire. The old polystyrene
insulation was unpleasant for fumes, the modern isocyanate foams cut
much better (no beads) but the fumes from those are really pretty
toxic. As they don't break down into loose beads anyway, they can
sand to shape very quickly.

A bread knife with a wiggly edge, not fine serrations, is the best
tool for slabbing out blanks.

Cheap electric carving knife from the Goodwill/thrift stores work very
well

Gunner

Political Correctness

A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical liberal minority and
rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media,
which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible
to pick up a turd by the clean end.

Ignoramus8098 wrote:
My 5.5 year old son wants to make a model ship. I made something with
my dad when I was about same age, from plywood, and he wants to have
his own. I do not want to get into "show quality" esoteric stuff. I
want to have a project where he can participate meaningfully. Any
suggestions as to the choice of materials etc.

Ideally, I am hoping to be able to find some sort of "dense cardboard"
type material that is easy to work with, etc. In the end I would epoxy
it.

any suggestions.

thanks

I vaguely recall an interview with a chap who ran a cabinet-making shop
(might have been viscount Lindley) and talking about some formative
memories. He described building a submarine with his dad (ok, not
exactly a ship) - it sounded simple but stimulating - cut out basic
shape from a lump of wood, some kind of open hook on the bottom with an
iron ring - it'd "dive" to the bottom, the ring would land on the bottom
& fall off and the sub would rise again. Lots of scope for keeping it
very simple or getting fancy, & sounds like fun. Though I suppose you
could only use it in one of those special boat ponds you see around from
time to time, where it's not going to get tangled up in weed or a
shopping trolley.

g.

Try to use those small flat wood ice cream sticks they sell by bags (use strait short
ones). Put them flat building the shape as by long flat bricks. White glue will do very
well. Lay out the skull profiles and may be build some simple staple. Some supervision
will help to maintain the shape (white glue easy to fix for quite a time). As the last
touch for ready scull some sandpaper or even sand belt will do.

Arcady

Ignoramus8098 wrote:
My 5.5 year old son wants to make a model ship. I made something with
my dad when I was about same age, from plywood, and he wants to have
his own. I do not want to get into "show quality" esoteric stuff. I
want to have a project where he can participate meaningfully. Any
suggestions as to the choice of materials etc.

Ideally, I am hoping to be able to find some sort of "dense cardboard"
type material that is easy to work with, etc. In the end I would epoxy
it.

any suggestions.

thanks

Talk to the family doctor. He buys bags of them to mash down on tongues!

I bet his supplier would love to peak his delivery for the month!

Perhaps a medical supply in town ? Or large pharmacy that deals with
everything...

Martin

Martin H. Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
TSRA, Life; NRA LOH & Endowment Member, Golden Eagle, Patriot"s Medal.
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder
IHMSA and NRA Metallic Silhouette maker & member.
http://lufkinced.com/


Arcady wrote:
Try to use those small flat wood ice cream sticks they sell by bags (use
strait short ones). Put them flat building the shape as by long flat
bricks. White glue will do very well. Lay out the skull profiles and may
be build some simple staple. Some supervision will help to maintain the
shape (white glue easy to fix for quite a time). As the last touch for
ready scull some sandpaper or even sand belt will do.

Arcady

Ignoramus8098 wrote:

My 5.5 year old son wants to make a model ship. I made something with
my dad when I was about same age, from plywood, and he wants to have
his own. I do not want to get into "show quality" esoteric stuff. I
want to have a project where he can participate meaningfully. Any
suggestions as to the choice of materials etc.

Ideally, I am hoping to be able to find some sort of "dense cardboard"
type material that is easy to work with, etc. In the end I would epoxy
it.
any suggestions.

thanks

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Martin H. Eastburn wrote:
Talk to the family doctor. He buys bags of them to mash down on tongues!


Ask the Dr. to save the used items.

Ewwwwwwwwww! G

Get Un used ones. One doesn't want to play with unknown danger !!

Martin H. Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
TSRA, Life; NRA LOH & Endowment Member, Golden Eagle, Patriot"s Medal.
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder
IHMSA and NRA Metallic Silhouette maker & member.
http://lufkinced.com/


B A R R Y wrote:
Martin H. Eastburn wrote:

Talk to the family doctor. He buys bags of them to mash down on tongues!


Ask the Dr. to save the used items.

Ewwwwwwwwww! G

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