Since either a Delta 36-717 or 36-720 hybrid saw is in the works,
how about a gentle discussion of pros and cons of each. Other
than the tendency to bind being eliminated on a left tilt, anything else?

tia
Nigel

"Nigel Burnett" wrote in message
...
Since either a Delta 36-717 or 36-720 hybrid saw is in the works,
how about a gentle discussion of pros and cons of each. Other
than the tendency to bind being eliminated on a left tilt, anything else?

tia
Nigel
Isn't that enough?
Jim

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.w...rch+this+group
Tom
Nigel Burnett wrote:
Since either a Delta 36-717 or 36-720 hybrid saw is in the works,
how about a gentle discussion of pros and cons of each. Other
than the tendency to bind being eliminated on a left tilt, anything else?

tia
Nigel

If you search the achieves of this group, you will find more discussion on
that topic than you will likely be able to read today. Not only has that
dead horse been beaten, it has been totally mutilated here.

"Nigel Burnett" wrote in message
...
Since either a Delta 36-717 or 36-720 hybrid saw is in the works,
how about a gentle discussion of pros and cons of each. Other
than the tendency to bind being eliminated on a left tilt, anything else?

tia
Nigel

Jim wrote:
"Nigel Burnett" wrote in message
...
Since either a Delta 36-717 or 36-720 hybrid saw is in the works,
how about a gentle discussion of pros and cons of each. Other
than the tendency to bind being eliminated on a left tilt, anything else?

tia
Nigel
Isn't that enough?
Jim


Why should it bind?
Just move the fence to the other side - or is there a reason to prefer
the fence on the right?

I don't really have a preference - my saw *table* tilts, so I tend to
use an angled sled on the rare occasions I make an angled cut, or even
cut square and then use the jointer (which has a tilting fence)



--
BigEgg
Hack to size. Hammer to fit. Weld to join. Grind to shape. Paint to cover.
http://www.workshop-projects.com -
Plans and free books - *Now with forum*

On Sun, 29 Oct 2006 11:39:52 -0500, Nigel Burnett
wrote:

Since either a Delta 36-717 or 36-720 hybrid saw is in the works,
how about a gentle discussion of pros and cons of each. Other
than the tendency to bind being eliminated on a left tilt, anything else?

You might check to be sure either of these are available in right
tilt. It seems some of the new models are not.
I've used a right tilt for 25 years and I think it's just a matter of
preference. It would take me a while to get used to a left tilt but
I'm sure I could adjust.

Mike O.

In article , wrote:
Since either a Delta 36-717 or 36-720 hybrid saw is in the works,
how about a gentle discussion of pros and cons of each.

The only real advantage I see in one or the other is caused by the tendency of
saw manufacturers to put their long extension tables on the right-hand side,
regardless of which way the arbor tilts. Since the longest side is the side
where the fence will spend most of its time, that should be the side away from
the tilt: to the right on a left-tilt saw, to the left on a right-tilt saw.

Other
than the tendency to bind being eliminated on a left tilt, anything else?

There's no inherent "tendency to bind" on a right-tilt saw if used properly,
which means not tilting the blade toward the fence. Unfortunately, on a
right-tilt saw, typically the long side of the extension table (and by
implication the fence) will be to the right.

So... given the way saw manufacturers typically put saws together, I'd go for
left-tilt. But as far as I can see, the only reason for favoring a left-tilt
saw with the long table and the fence on the right, over a right-tilt saw with
the long table and fence on the *left* (or the other way around) is simply
personal preference.



--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

"bigegg" wrote in message
...
Jim wrote:
"Nigel Burnett" wrote in message
...
Since either a Delta 36-717 or 36-720 hybrid saw is in the works,
how about a gentle discussion of pros and cons of each. Other
than the tendency to bind being eliminated on a left tilt, anything
else?

tia
Nigel
Isn't that enough?
Jim


Why should it bind?
Of course, it shouldn't if the fence is aligned correctly. Every now and
then, though, things are not as correct as they should be. Having the blade
tilt away from the wide part of the work helps avoid the situation where the
work gets trapped between the blade and the fence. Of course, I am assuming
that the table extensions are on the right hand side of the saw. Lefties
would prefer them on the left hand side, and for them, the argument falls
apart. Eventually, most of the discussions come down to what the operator
is most comfortable with.
Jim
Just move the fence to the other side - or is there a reason to prefer
the fence on the right?

I don't really have a preference - my saw *table* tilts, so I tend to
use an angled sled on the rare occasions I make an angled cut, or even
cut square and then use the jointer (which has a tilting fence)



--
BigEgg
Hack to size. Hammer to fit. Weld to join. Grind to shape. Paint to cover.
http://www.workshop-projects.com -
Plans and free books - *Now with forum*Jim

"Jim" wrote in message
. net...

"bigegg" wrote in message
Why should it bind?
Of course, it shouldn't if the fence is aligned correctly. Every now and
then, though, things are not as correct as they should be. Having the
blade
tilt away from the wide part of the work helps avoid the situation where
the
work gets trapped between the blade and the fence.

Yes, having the blade tilt away from the fence does eliminate the bind
problem if things are a bit out of line. Instead, the stock climbs up the
back of the blade and is pushed away from the fence and back where, if you
are fast and talented, you can easily catch it in your teeth.

Jim wrote:
"bigegg" wrote in message
...
Jim wrote:
"Nigel Burnett" wrote in message
...
Since either a Delta 36-717 or 36-720 hybrid saw is in the works,
how about a gentle discussion of pros and cons of each. Other
than the tendency to bind being eliminated on a left tilt, anything
else?

tia
Nigel
Isn't that enough?
Jim


Why should it bind?
Of course, it shouldn't if the fence is aligned correctly.

Sorry - I actually meant that if the blade tilts to the right, then the
fence should be on the left. I wasn't referring to the possibility the
fence wasn't aligned.


Every now and
then, though, things are not as correct as they should be. Having the blade
tilt away from the wide part of the work helps avoid the situation where the
work gets trapped between the blade and the fence. Of course, I am assuming
that the table extensions are on the right hand side of the saw. Lefties
would prefer them on the left hand side, and for them, the argument falls
apart. Eventually, most of the discussions come down to what the operator
is most comfortable with.

I don't have a permanently attached extension table either - my saw
table is a 3ft wide piece of 1" Worktop with the blade set centrally.
I have a seperate wheeled cabinet at the same height which can be moved
side to side as neccessary.

Surely the blade should tilt toward the fixed extension table,
regardless of which side that actually is?

PS, I'm right handed, but I prefer the extension table on the left.

--
BigEgg
Hack to size. Hammer to fit. Weld to join. Grind to shape. Paint to cover.
http://www.workshop-projects.com -
Plans and free books - *Now with forum*

"Nigel Burnett" wrote in message
...
Since either a Delta 36-717 or 36-720 hybrid saw is in the works,
how about a gentle discussion of pros and cons of each. Other
than the tendency to bind being eliminated on a left tilt, anything else?

tia
Nigel

Man it has been a long time since I have posted this but here goes.
Keep in mind that with a hybrid there may be more differences but here are
the most common reasons to go one way or the other if you are completely
neutral and need a push.

;~) The single most asked question in this group that I paste this rubber
stamp answer to.
Both saws will make all the same cuts. Some easier on the left tilt, some
easier on the right tilt. Strictly personal preference. But if you need to
be steered one way or the other,
Advantages:
Are you right handed?
Get the left tilt.
1. Commonly the Left tilt has the bevel wheel on the right side and is
easily turned with your Right hand.
2. Left tilt can rip a narrow bevel with out having to move the fence to the
left side of the blade.
3. Left tilt allows the blade arbor nut to be removed with your right hand.
4. Left tilt allows your to remove the arbor nut and turn it in the
direction that you would expect.
5. With a Left tilt, when both edges of a board are beveled, the sharp point
of the
bevel is up on the fence when cutting the second bevel as opposed to the
bottom of the fence where it might slip under.
6. RIGHT tilt if you are left handed. The bevel wheel is commonly on the
left side of the saw.
7. RIGHT tilt if you "must" use the fence distance indicator when using a
stacked dado blade set. The blades stack left, away from the fence. The
indicator remains accurate. On the left tilt, the blades stack towards the
fence and makes the indicator inaccurate. In this case use a tape measure to
set the fence distance.
8. RIGHT tilt allows you to remove the arbor nut with your left hand but the
nut must be turned clockwise to loosen. Bassackwards to normalcy.
If considering a cabinet saw, with wide 50" rip capacity.
The Left tilt will most often afford you the most storage room under the
right table extension. The RIGHT tilt has an access door in that location
that will demand room to open. The left tilt allows you to have access to
the motor and or the insides of the cabinet from the more open left side of
the saw with out having to crawl under the right extension table. Very nice
if you ever happen to drop the arbor nut inside the cabinet. If you are
considering getting a replacement saw and considering going to the opposite
tilt this time consider that the miter slots may not be the same distance
from the blade when comparing a left to right tilt saw. This may or may not
be of concern but something to consider.

"bigegg" wrote in message
...
Jim wrote:
"bigegg" wrote in message
...
Jim wrote:
"Nigel Burnett" wrote in message
...
Since either a Delta 36-717 or 36-720 hybrid saw is in the works,
how about a gentle discussion of pros and cons of each. Other
than the tendency to bind being eliminated on a left tilt, anything
else?

tia
Nigel
Isn't that enough?
Jim


Why should it bind?
Of course, it shouldn't if the fence is aligned correctly.

Sorry - I actually meant that if the blade tilts to the right, then the
fence should be on the left. I wasn't referring to the possibility the
fence wasn't aligned.

OK. In addition to putting the fence on the left, you should put the
extensions on the left. Lefties would be very comfortable with such an
arrangement.
Jim

Every now and
then, though, things are not as correct as they should be. Having the
blade
tilt away from the wide part of the work helps avoid the situation where
the
work gets trapped between the blade and the fence. Of course, I am
assuming
that the table extensions are on the right hand side of the saw. Lefties
would prefer them on the left hand side, and for them, the argument falls
apart. Eventually, most of the discussions come down to what the
operator
is most comfortable with.

I don't have a permanently attached extension table either - my saw
table is a 3ft wide piece of 1" Worktop with the blade set centrally.
I have a seperate wheeled cabinet at the same height which can be moved
side to side as neccessary.

Surely the blade should tilt toward the fixed extension table,
regardless of which side that actually is?

PS, I'm right handed, but I prefer the extension table on the left.

--
BigEgg
Hack to size. Hammer to fit. Weld to join. Grind to shape. Paint to cover.
http://www.workshop-projects.com -
Plans and free books - *Now with forum*

On Sun, 29 Oct 2006 23:19:57 GMT, "Leon" wrote:


"Nigel Burnett" wrote in message
.. .
Since either a Delta 36-717 or 36-720 hybrid saw is in the works,
how about a gentle discussion of pros and cons of each. Other
than the tendency to bind being eliminated on a left tilt, anything else?


5. With a Left tilt, when both edges of a board are beveled, the sharp point of the
bevel is up on the fence when cutting the second bevel as opposed to the
bottom of the fence where it might slip under.

That's an excellent point. I remember having this problem years ago. I think this has
tilted me toward a left-tilt since I've been happy with the fence on the right for
almost 30 years.

Thanks to everyone who posted their comments.
btw, the 36-717 is left tlt; the 36-720 is the same saw with right tilt.
Both come with a Biesemeyer BC-30 fence

N.

In article , wrote:
On Sun, 29 Oct 2006 23:19:57 GMT, "Leon" wrote:

5. With a Left tilt, when both edges of a board are beveled, the sharp point
of the
bevel is up on the fence when cutting the second bevel as opposed to the
bottom of the fence where it might slip under.

That's an excellent point.

No, it's not. Whether the sharp corners of the bevels are up or down
has nothing to do with which way the saw tilts. It depends only on whether the
operator puts the fence on the correct side of the tilt, or not.

The correct side is whichever side is away from the tilt: right of the blade
on a left-tilt saw, left of the blade on a right-tilt saw.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

"Doug Miller" wrote in message

The correct side is whichever side is away from the tilt: right of the
blade
on a left-tilt saw, left of the blade on a right-tilt saw.

Considering that the majority of table saws have the panels set up to the
right of the blade, your viewpoint as to the side the fence rests on comes
into question. IF someone wants to spend several hours reversing the rails
and moving the fence, then you might be right, but as it stands, you're not.

Doug Miller wrote:

The correct side is whichever side is away from the tilt: right of the blade
on a left-tilt saw, left of the blade on a right-tilt saw.


Since we're totally picking nits, that's not exactly true.

Using the fence on the short side of the saw changes the way the
operator makes the cut, as well as limiting the capacity (width) of
panels that can be beveled.

In article ,
says...

"Nigel Burnett" wrote in message
...
Since either a Delta 36-717 or 36-720 hybrid saw is in the works,
how about a gentle discussion of pros and cons of each. Other
than the tendency to bind being eliminated on a left tilt, anything else?

tia
Nigel

Man it has been a long time since I have posted this but here goes.
Keep in mind that with a hybrid there may be more differences but here are
the most common reasons to go one way or the other if you are completely
neutral and need a push.

;~) The single most asked question in this group that I paste this rubber
stamp answer to.

Some good advice follows, and some not-so-good advice, follows ...

Both saws will make all the same cuts. Some easier on the left tilt, some
easier on the right tilt. Strictly personal preference. But if you need to
be steered one way or the other,
Advantages:
Are you right handed?
Get the left tilt.
1. Commonly the Left tilt has the bevel wheel on the right side and is
easily turned with your Right hand.

Agreed.

2. Left tilt can rip a narrow bevel with out having to move the fence to the
left side of the blade.

Agreed -- but with a right-tilt saw, the natural position of the fence
should be left of the blade *anyway*.

3. Left tilt allows the blade arbor nut to be removed with your right hand.

And a right-tilt saw allows the blade arbor nut to be removed with your
left hand. Which is natural if you're left-handed. In which case you're
better off with a right-tilt saw.

4. Left tilt allows your to remove the arbor nut and turn it in the
direction that you would expect.

And this differs from a right-tilt saw *how*? "The direction you would
expect" is the direction that the blade spins, in all cases, regardless
of the type of saw.

5. With a Left tilt, when both edges of a board are beveled, the sharp point
of the
bevel is up on the fence when cutting the second bevel as opposed to the
bottom of the fence where it might slip under.

That's a problem with a right-tilt saw *only* if you have the fence on
the wrong side of the blade. Put the fence on the wrong side of the
blade on a left-tilt saw, and you have the same problem. Regardless of
the tilt of the saw, the correct side is away from the tilt, and the
wrong side is toward the tilt.

6. RIGHT tilt if you are left handed. The bevel wheel is commonly on the
left side of the saw.

Agreed.

7. RIGHT tilt if you "must" use the fence distance indicator when using a
stacked dado blade set. The blades stack left, away from the fence. The
indicator remains accurate. On the left tilt, the blades stack towards the
fence and makes the indicator inaccurate.

That isn't a problem for those of us who are able to add and subtract
fractions correctly.

In this case use a tape measure to
set the fence distance.

If you're concernead about accuracy, a steel rule is a better idea than
a tape measure.

8. RIGHT tilt allows you to remove the arbor nut with your left hand but the
nut must be turned clockwise to loosen. Bassackwards to normalcy.

IOW... in the direction that the blade rotates. Never mind CW or CCW,
just remember that the nut loosens in the same direction the blade
rotates, and you'll never have a problem.

If considering a cabinet saw, with wide 50" rip capacity.
The Left tilt will most often afford you the most storage room under the
right table extension. The RIGHT tilt has an access door in that location
that will demand room to open. The left tilt allows you to have access to
the motor and or the insides of the cabinet from the more open left side of
the saw with out having to crawl under the right extension table. Very nice
if you ever happen to drop the arbor nut inside the cabinet.

Of course, on a right-tilt saw, the table extension *and* the fence
belong on the left, so this really shouldn't be an issue.

If you are
considering getting a replacement saw and considering going to the opposite
tilt this time consider that the miter slots may not be the same distance
from the blade when comparing a left to right tilt saw. This may or may not
be of concern but something to consider.

The slots may not be the same distance anyway, even if the tilt *is* the
same. Different manufacturers put them in different places sometimes.

In article ,
says...

"Doug Miller" wrote in message

The correct side is whichever side is away from the tilt: right of the
blade
on a left-tilt saw, left of the blade on a right-tilt saw.

Considering that the majority of table saws have the panels set up to the
right of the blade, your viewpoint as to the side the fence rests on comes
into question. IF someone wants to spend several hours reversing the rails
and moving the fence, then you might be right, but as it stands, you're not.

Yes, I am. My comments applied to one _specific_ type of cut, not to
general use of the saw as you appear to have assumed.

I'll restore the parts that you snipped (but apparently did not read the
first time):

5. With a Left tilt, when both edges of a board are beveled, the
sharp point of the
bevel is up on the fence when cutting the second bevel as opposed to
the bottom of the fence where it might slip under.

That's an excellent point.

No, it's not. Whether the sharp corners of the bevels are up or down
has nothing to do with which way the saw tilts. It depends only on
whether the operator puts the fence on the correct side of the tilt, or
not.

In article ,
says...
Doug Miller wrote:

The correct side is whichever side is away from the tilt: right of the blade
on a left-tilt saw, left of the blade on a right-tilt saw.


Since we're totally picking nits, that's not exactly true.

Perhaps you see pointing out unsafe practices (such as cutting bevels on
the wrong side of the tilt) as "picking nits".

I don't.

Using the fence on the short side of the saw changes the way the
operator makes the cut, as well as limiting the capacity (width) of
panels that can be beveled.

True enough -- which is one reason that I'm completely mystified by
anyone putting the long side of the saw *toward* the tilt.

What? Doug's always right. If you don't believe it, just ask him. He'll tell
you.

"Upscale" wrote in message
...

"Doug Miller" wrote in message

The correct side is whichever side is away from the tilt: right of the
blade
on a left-tilt saw, left of the blade on a right-tilt saw.

Considering that the majority of table saws have the panels set up to the
right of the blade, your viewpoint as to the side the fence rests on comes
into question. IF someone wants to spend several hours reversing the rails
and moving the fence, then you might be right, but as it stands, you're
not.

Doug Miller wrote:
In article ,
says...

4. Left tilt allows your to remove the arbor nut and turn it in the
direction that you would expect.

And this differs from a right-tilt saw *how*? "The direction you would
expect" is the direction that the blade spins, in all cases, regardless
of the type of saw.

To most people, "the direction you would expect" is
counterclockwise--ie, a standard nut/bolt arrangement. Yes, there is a
reason why you'd turn it in the direction that the blade spins, and you
*should* expect to turn it that way. But many don't.


5. With a Left tilt, when both edges of a board are beveled, the sharp point
of the
bevel is up on the fence when cutting the second bevel as opposed to the
bottom of the fence where it might slip under.


That's a problem with a right-tilt saw *only* if you have the fence on
the wrong side of the blade. Put the fence on the wrong side of the
blade on a left-tilt saw, and you have the same problem. Regardless of
the tilt of the saw, the correct side is away from the tilt, and the
wrong side is toward the tilt.

Makes sense to me, but not it seems to most manufacturers. Take a look
at Delta's website. (Or General, or Grizzly...) All the
instructions/pictures have the extension tables to the right of the
blade...whether left or right tilt.

Chris

In article , Chris Friesen wrote:
Doug Miller wrote:
In article ,
says...

4. Left tilt allows your to remove the arbor nut and turn it in the
direction that you would expect.

And this differs from a right-tilt saw *how*? "The direction you would
expect" is the direction that the blade spins, in all cases, regardless
of the type of saw.

To most people, "the direction you would expect" is
counterclockwise--ie, a standard nut/bolt arrangement. Yes, there is a
reason why you'd turn it in the direction that the blade spins, and you
*should* expect to turn it that way. But many don't.

Well, that's the way saws work. :-)


5. With a Left tilt, when both edges of a board are beveled, the sharp point
of the
bevel is up on the fence when cutting the second bevel as opposed to the
bottom of the fence where it might slip under.


That's a problem with a right-tilt saw *only* if you have the fence on
the wrong side of the blade. Put the fence on the wrong side of the
blade on a left-tilt saw, and you have the same problem. Regardless of
the tilt of the saw, the correct side is away from the tilt, and the
wrong side is toward the tilt.

Makes sense to me, but not it seems to most manufacturers. Take a look
at Delta's website. (Or General, or Grizzly...) All the
instructions/pictures have the extension tables to the right of the
blade...whether left or right tilt.

Yeah, I know, and I never could figure that out. A good way to illustrate the
insanity of that setup is to picture your left-tilt saw with the long
extension tables, rail, and fence on the left side of the blade. Makes just as
much sense -- that is, none at all -- to put them all on the right side of a
right-tilt saw.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

In article et, "CW" wrote:
What? Doug's always right. If you don't believe it, just ask him. He'll tell
you.

Not always. More often than not, though -- and more often than you. Sod off.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

"CW" wrote in message news:x4p1h.1366
What? Doug's always right. If you don't believe it, just ask him. He'll
tell
you.

He's certainly arrogant enough to be always right. Which means that it's a
waste of time arguing with him because even if you are right and Doug's
wrong, he will be right anyway.

Upscale wrote:
"CW" wrote in message news:x4p1h.1366
What? Doug's always right. If you don't believe it, just ask him. He'll
tell
you.

He's certainly arrogant enough to be always right. Which means that it's a
waste of time arguing with him because even if you are right and Doug's
wrong, he will be right anyway.


Nothing at all to do with Doug, but this reminds me of the 2 rules for
being a successful employee:

Rule #1 - The boss is always right.

Rule #2 - If the boss is wrong, refer to Rule #1.

"Charlie M. 1958" wrote in message
2 rules for being a successful employee:
Rule #1 - The boss is always right.
Rule #2 - If the boss is wrong, refer to Rule #1.

Probably why I never was a great employee.

"Charlie M. 1958" wrote in message
...

Rule #1 - The boss is always right.

Unless he's wrong.

Rule #2 - If the boss is wrong, refer to Rule #1.

If he's wrong, tell him so.

Look, guys, my saw is a right tilt, and I'm very pleased with it, but
honestly, I haven't seen any cut it can make that couldn't also be
made with a left tilt saw.


--
For every complicated, difficult problem, there is a simple, easy
solution that does not work.

Larry Wasserman - Baltimore Maryland -