Gents (and ladies, too) I have had the terribly brilliant and incredibly
original idea of laying a router on its side in a table to cut mortices.
This was brought on by a lack of a dedicated mortising machine, the fact
that Woodcraft will not let me borrow theirs (no one else I know owns one)
and a healthy respect for a dollar that will not let me buy top-end
equipment for isolated or even single uses.

I found a couple sets of plans already and have made the adjustments to
match the available stock and even cut the wood. I'm good to go on that
score.

What I need now is the opinion of others as to the sizes and styles and
manufacturers of bits for mortising with a horizontal router. The router
in question is a single speed HF 2.5hp - 1/2" collet machine that I
bought too quickly (I was ticked at Woodcraft for advertising the PC 7518
on sale but not having even one I could hold to get a sense of it. Dummy
me, I wasn't sceptical enough. I just assumed that any router with that
much hp would have some way of varying the speed. [Note to self:
Bill, READ the steenkin' box!] Nope. Not this one.) clocking in at a
claimed 23,000 rpm. WAAAY too fast for the raised panel bits I had in mind
for it. WAAAY too fast.

(C=pi x D)x 23,000 x 60 / 5,280 = suicide

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=37793

So ... it is going to become my official mortise & tenon router. But I am
in desperate need of a clue.

What I THINK I need is a straight cut up-spiral bit (to pull the wood
toward the router fence) that comes on a 1/2" shank in a few sizes (1/4,
5/16, 3/8, 7/16, 1/2) with the greatest depth of cut I can buy through
normal channels. Probably carbide inserts or brazed carbide faced.

But then, I THOUGHT I needed that HF router, too.

Sign me:

Clueless in Detroit.

Bill (in ) said:

| What I need now is the opinion of others as to the sizes and styles
| and manufacturers of bits for mortising with a horizontal router.
| The router in question is a single speed HF 2.5hp - 1/2" collet
| machine that I bought too quickly (I was ticked at Woodcraft for
| advertising the PC 7518 on sale but not having even one I could
| hold to get a sense of it. Dummy me, I wasn't sceptical enough. I
| just assumed that any router with that much hp would have some way
| of varying the speed. [Note to self:
| Bill, READ the steenkin' box!] Nope. Not this one.) clocking in at a
| claimed 23,000 rpm. WAAAY too fast for the raised panel bits I had
| in mind for it. WAAAY too fast.

I don't think you did as badly as you think. HF also sells a router
speed control that /may/ work with that router - I bought a pair of
'em on sale at $20 each and mine work with the routers I bought 'em
for. Try the speed control out with your router at HF before you buy
it.

| What I THINK I need is a straight cut up-spiral bit (to pull the
| wood toward the router fence) that comes on a 1/2" shank in a few
| sizes (1/4, 5/16, 3/8, 7/16, 1/2) with the greatest depth of cut I
| can buy through normal channels. Probably carbide inserts or brazed
| carbide faced.

Check prices on solid carbide end mills. I favor 3-fluted end mills
from KBC Tools (because they're sharp, they hold up well, and they're
less expensive than router bts) - which might be of interest to you
because KBC's primary location is in the Detroit area. End mill shanks
are normally the same diameter as the cutting edges, so you may need
to shell out for router bits for sizes that don't match your collets.

The spiral up-cut is the bit you're after.

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto

(SNIP)
| What I THINK I need is a straight cut up-spiral bit (to pull the
| wood toward the router fence) that comes on a 1/2" shank in a few
| sizes (1/4, 5/16, 3/8, 7/16, 1/2) with the greatest depth of cut I
| can buy through normal channels. Probably carbide inserts or brazed
| carbide faced.

Check prices on solid carbide end mills. I favor 3-fluted end mills
from KBC Tools (because they're sharp, they hold up well, and they're
less expensive than router bts) - which might be of interest to you
because KBC's primary location is in the Detroit area. End mill shanks
are normally the same diameter as the cutting edges, so you may need
to shell out for router bits for sizes that don't match your collets.

The spiral up-cut is the bit you're after.

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto

Morris I am interested in trying to use endmills to cut mortises. What
clearance angle do you use? Can you provide a link to the specific endmills
or a stock number of a KBC Tool endmill you find works well?
Earl Creel

Earl Creel (in l7q_g.4641$uJ2.860@dukeread03) said:

| Morris I am interested in trying to use endmills to cut mortises.
| What clearance angle do you use? Can you provide a link to the
| specific endmills or a stock number of a KBC Tool endmill you find
| works well?

Here are the end mills from my next most recent KBC order:

1-330-008 1/8" 3-Flute Std Length Center Cutting Carbide $5.00
1-330-016 1/4" 3-Flute Std Length Center Cutting Carbide 9.50
1-326-008B 1/8" 2-Flute Std Length Center Cutting Carbide 7.25

I'd be happy to provide links; but the KBC web site (www.kbctools.com)
doesn't allow. Go to their index (main) page, select Canada or USA,
and plug in a part number corresponding to the type. Once you have the
item listing, you can call up the entire catalog page to see the other
sizes. The "B" at the end of the third item's P/N indicates a ball end
mill (round-nose bit).

I hate KBC's web site - but the good news is that they have a /much/
easier to use hardcopy catalog which, for me, is almost as
pornographic as the LV catalog. The catalog is, of course, free for
the asking...

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto

"Bill" wrote:




(C=pi x D)x 23,000 x 60 / 5,280 = suicide
Make sure to express D in feet rather than inches so you stay
subsonic. g

--
Alex -- Replace "nospam" with "mail" to reply by email. Checked infrequently.

"Morris Dovey" wrote in message
...
Earl Creel (in l7q_g.4641$uJ2.860@dukeread03) said:

| Morris I am interested in trying to use endmills to cut mortises.
| What clearance angle do you use? Can you provide a link to the
| specific endmills or a stock number of a KBC Tool endmill you find
| works well?

Here are the end mills from my next most recent KBC order:

1-330-008 1/8" 3-Flute Std Length Center Cutting Carbide $5.00
1-330-016 1/4" 3-Flute Std Length Center Cutting Carbide 9.50
1-326-008B 1/8" 2-Flute Std Length Center Cutting Carbide 7.25

I'd be happy to provide links; but the KBC web site (www.kbctools.com)
doesn't allow. Go to their index (main) page, select Canada or USA,
and plug in a part number corresponding to the type. Once you have the
item listing, you can call up the entire catalog page to see the other
sizes. The "B" at the end of the third item's P/N indicates a ball end
mill (round-nose bit).

I hate KBC's web site - but the good news is that they have a /much/
easier to use hardcopy catalog which, for me, is almost as
pornographic as the LV catalog. The catalog is, of course, free for
the asking...

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto

Thanks Morris
EC

In article , Morris Dovey
wrote:

the good news is that they have a /much/
easier to use hardcopy catalog which, for me, is almost as
pornographic as the LV catalog. The catalog is, of course, free for
the asking...

You *******... Of *course* I requested it.

Oh well, the kids could stand to lose a bit of weight.

Dave Balderstone (in
a) said:

| In article , Morris Dovey
| wrote:
|
|| the good news is that they have a /much/
|| easier to use hardcopy catalog which, for me, is almost as
|| pornographic as the LV catalog. The catalog is, of course, free for
|| the asking...
|
| You *******... Of *course* I requested it.
|
| Oh well, the kids could stand to lose a bit of weight.

g When it arrives, take a bit of time to look at the cover photo (it
shows a ball end mill protruding from a collet over a rough-cut piece
of aluminum) and ponder the question: "If I had that (not visible
machine) in my shop, what might I use it to make?"

Then choose some arbitrary weight threshold (anything under 1000
pounds would be good) and rip out every page with an item exceeding
that weight. Burn the pages without looking at them a second time
(there will still be 1000 or so pages left). Do not breathe the smoke.

If you're not a machinist, there'll be a _lot_ of stuff there that you
won't recognize. By the time you wear out the second or third catalog,
you'll probably have nearly all of it figured out. That's the point at
which you should ask them to stop sending you the catalog - but, of
course, you won't.

--
Morris Dovey
(33 days and nine hours since my last tool order)

On Fri, 20 Oct 2006 23:17:37 -0500, Morris Dovey wrote:

Check prices on solid carbide end mills. I favor 3-fluted end mills
from KBC Tools (because they're sharp, they hold up well, and they're
less expensive than router bts) - which might be of interest to you
because KBC's primary location is in the Detroit area. End mill shanks
are normally the same diameter as the cutting edges, so you may need
to shell out for router bits for sizes that don't match your collets.

The spiral up-cut is the bit you're after.


Good suggestion, Morris. I have a Production Tool within walking distance.
I probably have one of their catalogs around. A couple miles further away
is a J & L Industrial. And I KNOW I have their catalog!

Bill ustawas a machinist/diemaker

I kept my Kennedy 3-high and my calipers / mikes & indicators along with a
whole host of odd little pieces of metal I may never have use for again. :-))))

And, of course, my Machinery Manual.

On Fri, 20 Oct 2006 23:17:37 -0500, Morris Dovey wrote:

The spiral up-cut is the bit you're after.


Like this?
http://www.jlindustrial.com/web_grap.../HAL-95020.jpg

Or with a shallower spiral? This one is meant for aluminum ... but then, I
really don't expect to find an end mill specced for wood. It seems like
the standard lead angle is about 15 degrees but I'm too long from the
trade to remember for certain.

Also, what sort of chip load do you aim for?

I may have to wander up to Production or J & L to bend the ear of the
counterman.

Bill

Bill (in ) said:

| On Fri, 20 Oct 2006 23:17:37 -0500, Morris Dovey wrote:
|
|| The spiral up-cut is the bit you're after.
|
| Like this?
|
http://www.jlindustrial.com/web_grap...ha/HAL-95020.j
pg

I usually look for plain-shanked bits. That bit would probably cut
well; but I'd worry about the effects of inbalance on my bearings at
wood-routing spindle speeds.

| Or with a shallower spiral? This one is meant for aluminum ... but
| then, I really don't expect to find an end mill specced for wood.
| It seems like the standard lead angle is about 15 degrees but I'm
| too long from the trade to remember for certain.

I would suspect that the high-angle aluminum bits might clear chips a
little faster at the cost of increased tear-out at the top of the cut.
I doubt they're worth the extra cost unless you're cutting aluminum.
Too much heat when routing is a signal to increase feed rate, not to
buy more expensive bits...

| Also, what sort of chip load do you aim for?

I haven't done chip load calculations. Most of my routing has been in
wood; and there's so much variation in hardness/density that I tend to
set feed and spindle speeds by listening to the bit and looking at the
cut. My usual starting point is 14k RPM and 1.5 in/sec horizontal with
3/4 in/sec plunge feeds with a 3-flute center-cutting end mill. With a
2-flute end mill I usually start out at 18-24k RPM and same feeds.

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto

On Sun, 22 Oct 2006 04:30:52 -0000, "Bill" wrote:

On Fri, 20 Oct 2006 23:17:37 -0500, Morris Dovey wrote:

Check prices on solid carbide end mills. I favor 3-fluted end mills
from KBC Tools (because they're sharp, they hold up well, and they're
less expensive than router bts) - which might be of interest to you
because KBC's primary location is in the Detroit area. End mill shanks
are normally the same diameter as the cutting edges, so you may need
to shell out for router bits for sizes that don't match your collets.

The spiral up-cut is the bit you're after.


Good suggestion, Morris. I have a Production Tool within walking distance.
I probably have one of their catalogs around. A couple miles further away
is a J & L Industrial. And I KNOW I have their catalog!

Yeah, hard to forget a catalog that takes up a whole shelf by itself.

On Wed, 25 Oct 2006 15:20:31 -0500, Prometheus wrote:

Yeah, hard to forget a catalog that takes up a whole shelf by itself.

Kind of like the IRS tax codes ... and just about as expensive. However,
with J & L you get to keep the tool. ;-)

(That, by the way, was my justification for buying the tools needed to
hand-build some needed cabinets for our house. "Cost about the same but
keep the tools".

It's also how I justify most of my 'working on the car' tools.)

Bill