Hi,

I am making a cherry dining table. It will have five 2x4ft panels.
most will have 3 boards, one will have 5...I plan to scrape all of it
for the finished surface, no sanding if I can help it...They are all
planed to 7/8"...

If I glue up the panels first, they will be on the large side for hand
scraping. If i scrape them first i can reach them better. Then I could
scrape and clean up the joints, etc... Is there any reason why I
shouldn't scrape the individual boards first? One thing I thought of
was damaging the edge somehow, which would be avoided by gluing up
first... does it even matter? Am I imagining a problem (scraping wide
panels) that doesn't exist? This will be my first glue-up project with
such wide panels...

thanks for any comments....

david

david blumberg wrote:

I am making a cherry dining table. It will have five 2x4ft panels. most
will have 3 boards, one will have 5...I plan to scrape all of it for the
finished surface, no sanding if I can help it...They are all planed to
7/8"...

If I glue up the panels first, they will be on the large side for hand
scraping. If i scrape them first i can reach them better. Then I could
scrape and clean up the joints, etc... Is there any reason why I
shouldn't scrape the individual boards first? One thing I thought of
was damaging the edge somehow, which would be avoided by gluing up
first... does it even matter? Am I imagining a problem (scraping wide
panels) that doesn't exist? This will be my first glue-up project with
such wide panels...

Glue up the panels, then head for the contract drum sander.

Have them leave you 1/32" proud, then scrape for final finish.

Lew

lew,

thanks for the reply....I have considered that option. I am concerned
about the dulling effects of the grit on the scraping process...

david

Lew Hodgett wrote:
david blumberg wrote:

I am making a cherry dining table. It will have five 2x4ft panels. most
will have 3 boards, one will have 5...I plan to scrape all of it for the
finished surface, no sanding if I can help it...They are all planed to
7/8"...

If I glue up the panels first, they will be on the large side for hand
scraping. If i scrape them first i can reach them better. Then I could
scrape and clean up the joints, etc... Is there any reason why I
shouldn't scrape the individual boards first? One thing I thought of
was damaging the edge somehow, which would be avoided by gluing up
first... does it even matter? Am I imagining a problem (scraping wide
panels) that doesn't exist? This will be my first glue-up project with
such wide panels...

Glue up the panels, then head for the contract drum sander.

Have them leave you 1/32" proud, then scrape for final finish.

Lew

In article . net,
david blumberg wrote:

lew,

thanks for the reply....I have considered that option. I am concerned
about the dulling effects of the grit on the scraping process...

The scraper will remove any grit, that's why you're scraping.

Your scraper is a consumable. Why worry about using it?

In article . net,
says...
Hi,

I am making a cherry dining table. It will have five 2x4ft panels.
most will have 3 boards, one will have 5...I plan to scrape all of it
for the finished surface, no sanding if I can help it...They are all
planed to 7/8"...

If I glue up the panels first, they will be on the large side for hand
scraping. If i scrape them first i can reach them better. Then I could
scrape and clean up the joints, etc... Is there any reason why I
shouldn't scrape the individual boards first?

Even if you use bisquits or dowels to locate your boards before the glue up you
will quite likely get enough creep to make the first scraping a waste of time.

One thing I thought of
was damaging the edge somehow, which would be avoided by gluing up
first... does it even matter?

Quite possibly. I've done that (albeit by sanding a joint before assembly) -
miserable result. I only do prefinish prior to glue up these days.

Am I imagining a problem (scraping wide
panels) that doesn't exist? This will be my first glue-up project with
such wide panels...

Should not be a problem at all. I've scraped several tables that were 6'x3'
~ish after final assembly (I use an Ulmia finishing plane at its finest
possible setting at 45 degrees to the grain to remove gluing-up ridges before
scraping -- hardly need any scraping at all -- and I have no problem reaching.

h.t.h. -Peter

--
=========================================
firstname dot lastname at gmail fullstop com

In article . net,
says...

lew,

thanks for the reply....I have considered that option. I am concerned
about the dulling effects of the grit on the scraping process...

david


Indeed. Poor cabinet scraper. :-\ You spend more time burnishing and re-
grinding the scraper than scraping after wholesale sanding has taken place ...
although that may partly depend on the quality of the abrasives used.

-P.

--
=========================================
firstname dot lastname at gmail fullstop com

In article 030920061835427944%dave@N_O_T_T_H_I_Sbalderstone. ca,
says...

The scraper will remove any grit, that's why you're scraping.

Your scraper is a consumable. Why worry about using it?


Depends on where you are, I suppose. Took me about a year to find the two
cabinet scrapers I have, here in NZ. I had them for nearly 20 years now. I only
need to regrind every 3rd or 5th project, because I use no abrasives before
scraping. These should see me out ... it'd be very very hard to replace them,
so I do not consider them a consumable, I consider them a prize posession ;-)

-P.

--
=========================================
firstname dot lastname at gmail fullstop com

david blumberg wrote:

thanks for the reply....I have considered that option. I am concerned
about the dulling effects of the grit on the scraping process...

In which case, use a cheap Stanley and don't bother burnishing it.

Peter Huebner wrote:
Even if you use bisquits or dowels to locate your boards before the glue up you
will quite likely get enough creep to make the first scraping a waste of time.

Scrape. Spline. Touch up.

JP

I've never had any problem with scraping after sanding. In any case, if
you do a decent glue up, there is no reason that you need to put it through
a drum sander.
"david blumberg" wrote in message
ink.net...
lew,

thanks for the reply....I have considered that option. I am concerned
about the dulling effects of the grit on the scraping process...

In article , Peter
Huebner wrote:

In article 030920061835427944%dave@N_O_T_T_H_I_Sbalderstone. ca,
says...

The scraper will remove any grit, that's why you're scraping.

Your scraper is a consumable. Why worry about using it?


Depends on where you are, I suppose. Took me about a year to find the two
cabinet scrapers I have, here in NZ. I had them for nearly 20 years now. I
only
need to regrind every 3rd or 5th project, because I use no abrasives before
scraping. These should see me out ... it'd be very very hard to replace them,
so I do not consider them a consumable, I consider them a prize posession ;-)

Ah. I assume you mean a scraper plane, rather than a cabinet scraper? I
have a reasonable collection of scrapers. They're cheap and easy to
obtain. Vis:

http://www.leevalley.com/w ood/page.aspx?c=1&p=32670&cat=1,310,41069

In article 030920062323521707%dave@N_O_T_T_H_I_Sbalderstone. ca,
says...

Ah. I assume you mean a scraper plane, rather than a cabinet scraper? I
have a reasonable collection of scrapers. They're cheap and easy to
obtain. Vis:

http://www.leevalley.com/w ood/page.aspx?c=1&p=32670&cat=1,310,41069


Nope, I meant cabinet scraper
Different country, different 'continent'. 20 years ago it was virtually
impossible to find them in New Zealand. There may be one or two specialist
shops in the country that carry them ... the common or garden hardware stores
don't nor do the building supply stores. 'tis a small country.

-P.

--
=========================================
firstname dot lastname at gmail fullstop com

This thread kind of makes you wonder how anyone in the late 1700's was able
to make today's priceless antiques without the benefit of the power tools we
have at our disposal. Drum sander? Sure, I guess, but why not a #7 and for
smoothing a, well, smoothing plane like a #4? Sure it's more labor
intensive, but it works and works extremely well.

I have a friend who has graduated from RISD, took a year-long
furniture-making course at North Bennett and has 20 years in the business.
His take is this. If you want to be a craftsman, you need to first know how
to work with your hands. His feeling is that electrical power only
increases productivity, not quality. Productivity is only important when
you are paid by the piece. Sure, he uses electrical power, but only to save
time on ripping, cross cutting, initial dimensioning and so on. From that
point it's hand tools all the way.

BTW he is the only person, other than Frank K., that I have seen cut a
through dovetail without measuring. Pretty sick.

Have fun!


"Lew Hodgett" wrote in message
ink.net...
david blumberg wrote:

I am making a cherry dining table. It will have five 2x4ft panels. most
will have 3 boards, one will have 5...I plan to scrape all of it for the
finished surface, no sanding if I can help it...They are all planed to
7/8"...

If I glue up the panels first, they will be on the large side for hand
scraping. If i scrape them first i can reach them better. Then I could
scrape and clean up the joints, etc... Is there any reason why I
shouldn't scrape the individual boards first? One thing I thought of
was damaging the edge somehow, which would be avoided by gluing up
first... does it even matter? Am I imagining a problem (scraping wide
panels) that doesn't exist? This will be my first glue-up project with
such wide panels...

Glue up the panels, then head for the contract drum sander.

Have them leave you 1/32" proud, then scrape for final finish.

Lew

"david blumberg" wrote in message

first... does it even matter?

Not really.

Am I imagining a problem (scraping wide
panels) that doesn't exist? This will be my first glue-up project with
such wide panels...

Simply climb on up and scrape away at the hard to reach spots. I've gotten
old enough that I now need knee pads on big table tops, but still do it when
required. It's how I did this one:

http://www.e-woodshop.net/images/Trestle%20Table11.jpg

One thing that I've found helpful on any panel glue-up, but particularly on
the large ones, is using a replaceable blade paint scraper over the joints
before scraping for a finish. Cheap, fast, and effective for removing the
squeeze out and getting that initial level.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 8/29/06

They are very easily made from any piece of medium hard steel.
"Peter Huebner" wrote in message
t...
In article 030920062323521707%dave@N_O_T_T_H_I_Sbalderstone. ca,
says...
Nope, I meant cabinet scraper
Different country, different 'continent'. 20 years ago it was virtually
impossible to find them in New Zealand. There may be one or two specialist
shops in the country that carry them ... the common or garden hardware
stores
don't nor do the building supply stores. 'tis a small country.

"news.east.cox.net" wrote in message

I have a friend who has graduated from RISD, took a year-long
furniture-making course at North Bennett and has 20 years in the business.
His take is this. If you want to be a craftsman, you need to first know
how
to work with your hands. His feeling is that electrical power only
increases productivity, not quality. Productivity is only important when
you are paid by the piece. Sure, he uses electrical power, but only to
save
time on ripping, cross cutting, initial dimensioning and so on. From that
point it's hand tools all the way.

BTW he is the only person, other than Frank K., that I have seen cut a
through dovetail without measuring. Pretty sick.

Yep ... that is indeed the _real_ measure of a true woodworker. Makes you
wonder how the OP will manage to glue up a table top without the ability to
do that.

"Productivity is only important when you are paid by the piece"?

Gosh ... now that's really astounding in its profundity!

Been nice to hear something pertinent to the question from the practitioner
himself, but we understand that he's probably busy being productive so he
can finally get paid.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 8/29/06

Peter Huebner wrote:
In article 030920062323521707%dave@N_O_T_T_H_I_Sbalderstone. ca,
says...

Ah. I assume you mean a scraper plane, rather than a cabinet
scraper? I have a reasonable collection of scrapers. They're cheap
and easy to obtain. Vis:

http://www.leevalley.com/w
ood/page.aspx?c=1&p=32670&cat=1,310,41069


Nope, I meant cabinet scraper
Different country, different 'continent'. 20 years ago it was
virtually impossible to find them in New Zealand. There may be one
or two specialist shops in the country that carry them ... the
common or garden hardware stores don't nor do the building supply
stores. 'tis a small country.

It has mail?


--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

Thanks to all for your comments and suggestions...

Peter Huebner wrote:


Even if you use bisquits or dowels to locate your boards before the glue up you
will quite likely get enough creep to make the first scraping a waste of time.


That is what I was thinking. I wont use dowels or biscuits, anyway...



Am I imagining a problem (scraping wide
panels) that doesn't exist? This will be my first glue-up project with
such wide panels...


Should not be a problem at all. I've scraped several tables that were 6'x3'
~ish after final assembly (I use an Ulmia finishing plane at its finest
possible setting at 45 degrees to the grain to remove gluing-up ridges before
scraping -- hardly need any scraping at all -- and I have no problem reaching.

h.t.h. -Peter

thanks, I think I will glue one up and then do the scraping on the
whole panel. I hope to avoid sanding if I can...The scraped finish is
so much clearer and deeeper. I have card scrapers, No. 80s, and just
got a Veritas scraper plane, which I am having some trouble fine tuning,
but I will practice on the bottom of the panels first. The table (48"
diameter with three 2 ft extensions)will sit in a bay with windows on 3
sides, so i am sure all the flaws will be highlighted at some point
during the day! Thanks again...

david

On Sun, 03 Sep 2006 23:23:52 -0600, Dave Balderstone
wrote:

In article , Peter
Huebner wrote:

In article 030920061835427944%dave@N_O_T_T_H_I_Sbalderstone. ca,
says...

The scraper will remove any grit, that's why you're scraping.

Your scraper is a consumable. Why worry about using it?


Depends on where you are, I suppose. Took me about a year to find the two
cabinet scrapers I have, here in NZ. I had them for nearly 20 years now. I
only
need to regrind every 3rd or 5th project, because I use no abrasives before
scraping. These should see me out ... it'd be very very hard to replace them,
so I do not consider them a consumable, I consider them a prize posession ;-)

Ah. I assume you mean a scraper plane, rather than a cabinet scraper? I
have a reasonable collection of scrapers. They're cheap and easy to
obtain. Vis:

http://www.leevalley.com/w ood/page.aspx?c=1&p=32670&cat=1,310,41069

I think terminolgy differs quite a bit on scrapers.
To me, a *cabinet scraper* is a #80
Pieces of metal, regarless of shape I call *card scrapers*

Peter Huebner wrote:
In article 030920062323521707%dave@N_O_T_T_H_I_Sbalderstone. ca,
says...

Ah. I assume you mean a scraper plane, rather than a cabinet scraper? I
have a reasonable collection of scrapers. They're cheap and easy to
obtain. Vis:

http://www.leevalley.com/w ood/page.aspx?c=1&p=32670&cat=1,310,41069


Nope, I meant cabinet scraper
Different country, different 'continent'. 20 years ago it was virtually
impossible to find them in New Zealand. There may be one or two specialist
shops in the country that carry them ... the common or garden hardware stores
don't nor do the building supply stores. 'tis a small country.

-P.

Peter,

Aside from Lee Valley which very reliably keeps us Kiwis in tools,
there's always Carbatec in Auckland (www.carbatec.co.nz) 0800-444-329.

Cheers,

Larry

Nice tabletop!

"Swingman" wrote in message
...
"david blumberg" wrote in message

first... does it even matter?

Not really.

Am I imagining a problem (scraping wide
panels) that doesn't exist? This will be my first glue-up project with
such wide panels...

Simply climb on up and scrape away at the hard to reach spots. I've gotten
old enough that I now need knee pads on big table tops, but still do it
when
required. It's how I did this one:

http://www.e-woodshop.net/images/Trestle%20Table11.jpg

One thing that I've found helpful on any panel glue-up, but particularly
on
the large ones, is using a replaceable blade paint scraper over the
joints
before scraping for a finish. Cheap, fast, and effective for removing the
squeeze out and getting that initial level.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 8/29/06