I've read all the posts in response to "Are you supposed tip the truck
driver", about 90 so far.

I would like to ask a question.

First of all let me clarify a couple of things things. A freight
company is a business to business operation, that is based on the
premiss that each location has a freight dock. That is the way their
tariffs are structured. The freight is loaded onto the truck at point
A. buy the shipper, and offloaded at point B by the consignee. That is
why a trailer is at the height of a standard freight dock. This applies
if the freight is 1 lb. or a truckload. If no dock is available at
either end, a charge may be applied if it is necessary to use other
mechanical means(lift-gate,forklift) that the shipper or consignee do
not provide.

A freight company makes its money by selling service. It has no
tangible product to sell. It has different levels of service just like
a table saw has a number of levels of options you may purchase, and are
priced accordingly. These levels being, if it's a residence, if the
freight requires a lift-gate,or requires being moved to a location
other that adjacent to the trailer. These are three different options
that may be purchased by the shipper or consignee, just like a upgraded
fence or mobile base on a table saw. These extra services come with
costs involved and charges are assessed to recover them and make a
profit. Thats why they are in business

Question.
If you were an employer and your employee gave away a upgraded fence,
mobile base, or some other item that you did not authorize, would you
consider that theft? An if so would you consider a truck driver who
performed a service that was not authorized, or paid for; theft ?

Vidkid26 wrote:
I've read all the posts in response to "Are you supposed tip the truck
driver", about 90 so far.

I would like to ask a question.

First of all let me clarify a couple of things things. A freight company
is a business to business operation, that is based on the premiss that
each location has a freight dock. That is the way their tariffs are
structured. The freight is loaded onto the truck at point A. buy the
shipper, and offloaded at point B by the consignee. That is why a
trailer is at the height of a standard freight dock. This applies if the
freight is 1 lb. or a truckload. If no dock is available at either end,
a charge may be applied if it is necessary to use other mechanical
means(lift-gate,forklift) that the shipper or consignee do not provide.

A freight company makes its money by selling service. It has no tangible
product to sell. It has different levels of service just like a table
saw has a number of levels of options you may purchase, and are priced
accordingly. These levels being, if it's a residence, if the freight
requires a lift-gate,or requires being moved to a location other that
adjacent to the trailer. These are three different options that may be
purchased by the shipper or consignee, just like a upgraded fence or
mobile base on a table saw. These extra services come with costs
involved and charges are assessed to recover them and make a profit.
Thats why they are in business

Question.
If you were an employer and your employee gave away a upgraded fence,
mobile base, or some other item that you did not authorize, would you
consider that theft? An if so would you consider a truck driver who
performed a service that was not authorized, or paid for; theft ?




What would it be a theft OF? considering that no one who works for a
living is 100% productive 100% of the time, I suppose you could say
everyone who's drawing a paycheck is guilty of some sort of "theft" by
not working their full shift. Part of the day for office workers is
spent gossiping and cruising the 'net. Retail workers gab with their
customers or sit in the break room longer than their alloted time.

However, in the strictest sense of the word, I wouldn't classify some
as-yet-undefined "unathorized service" for a customer as "theft". What
if traffic holds up the trucker from making his rounds in minimum time?
Is he guilty of theft for not having a traffic monitor for locating
any and all possible traffic tie ups? This is not a perfect world. A
sensible adult working as a trucker should no the limitations of his
duties and should be able to work generally within those guidelines. If
he strays from them from time to time in the interest of good will,
lighten up!

Nothing is black and white. Your hypothetical is sure to elicit tons of
arguments on both sides of your question.

Dave

would you consider a truck driver who
performed a service that was not authorized, or paid for; theft ?

Only if it was a service that was normally offered and, if provided, the
company would generally charge extra for.

Lee

--
To e-mail, replace "bucketofspam" with "dleegordon"

_________________________________
Lee Gordon
http://www.leegordonproductions.com

So, his time is free?

"Lee Gordon" wrote in message
...
would you consider a truck driver who
performed a service that was not authorized, or paid for; theft ?

Only if it was a service that was normally offered and, if provided, the
company would generally charge extra for.

"Vidkid26" video city@my video.com wrote in message
Question.
If you were an employer and your employee gave away a upgraded fence,
mobile base, or some other item that you did not authorize, would you
consider that theft?

Probably, but it depends on circumstances. If I still made a profit, and
woujld have lost the sale otherwise, it would have been "authorized" in my
absence. Thee shold be some sort of policy, written or lossly communicated
to cover situations like that. If it was a pure give away, then it could be
theft.


An if so would you consider a truck driver who
performed a service that was not authorized, or paid for; theft ?

No. Drivers offer service. They are trained to give good service, make
customers happy. I see it often with drivers that service our company.
Many do little extra things in their pickups and deliveries that are not
required by the company. Often, it saves them time instead of waiting for
one of our guys to take that pallet off.

You can make the argument that it is a home delivery, so no big deal. What
you never know though, is who that homeowner is. He may just happen to be
the traffic manager for a large warehouse. He may specify carriers. A
little goodwill is always a good thing. At the end of the day, if all the
deliveries and pickups are made in a timely manner, customers are happy,
then the driver did a good job.

"Vidkid26" video city@my video.com wrote in message
news:2006081318053616807-videocity@myvideocom...


Snip


Question.
If you were an employer and your employee gave away a upgraded fence,
mobile base, or some other item that you did not authorize, would you
consider that theft?

Absolutely NOT. I would consider it a good will gesture. I would also
further question the reason for giving away the merchandise.


An if so would you consider a truck driver who
performed a service that was not authorized, or paid for; theft ?



The same applies. When dealing with the public and your customer, you deed
to treat him as you would treat yourself.

"CW" wrote in message
So, his time is free?

It may be. All drivers are allowed breaks and lunch times. If he takes
ten minutes to help a customer, but cuts a break short, the company is at no
loss. It has, though, gained some good will and who knows what business in
the future.

I often tell the story about Richard.

I was a production supervisor and Richard was the operator of a Pines tubing
bending machine. All the jobs had a rate and you had to achieve 85% or you
could be written up. Richard was the only person running this machine that
could do 95% to 110% of the rate. NO ONE else ever did more that 75%.
Richard was always the guy that went to the store room for gloves, went for
the coffee, etc. The plant manager gave me hell for letting him wander, yet
he was the top producing guy on that machine. So, I had to stop him from
wandering.

OK, now there is a new job on a new tool on the machine. Richard said he
did not know how to set it up and he wanted the engineer. The engineer
spent three hours with him and not a part was made. The engineer got the
tooling designer and they both spend a few more hours and still did not make
a part. Next day, they were at it again. . After a couple of hours, they
took a break. Ten minutes later, Richard brought me a part from the
machine, perfectly made.. He dropped it on the desk and asked if he could go
to the store room. After that fiasco, no one ever questioned why Richard
was wandering around the plant and at the end of the day, he out produced
everyone else.

My point is, happy workers are productive workers. Time spend doing an
extra service may not be a cost at all at the end of the day. We all have
different work patterns and the guy that never leaves his work station is
not always the most productive. Not allowing some freedom can be
counter-productive.

On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 01:05:36 GMT, Vidkid26 video city@my video.com
wrote:

Question.
If you were an employer and your employee gave away a upgraded fence,
mobile base, or some other item that you did not authorize, would you
consider that theft? An if so would you consider a truck driver who
performed a service that was not authorized, or paid for; theft ?

I've been an employer once or twice, and when it comes to services,
I'd fire a guy for not doing what the customer requested, as long as
it's within reason- even if that service wasn't specifically in the
contract. I've done plenty of little things for customers on contract
like hanging birdhouses, cleaning gutters for old folks, or shoveling
a driveway that paid off far more in goodwill and word of mouth than
any drain on my time was worth. I've also been on the other side of
it, and have seen the customer get really ****ed off when the
contractor told us not to do some minor thing would have taken 10
minutes that should have been in the contract anyway, but was not
specifically itemized. Those folks tend to talk about things like
that, and cause no end of trouble.

When it comes to materials, that can be a different story- I usually
try to include a couple extra pieces when I do millwork, but I
wouldn't toss in a free kitchen table with the purchase of a bar
stool. It's a matter of degree, like anything. If I was making a
bookshelf with adjustable shelving, and a customer wanted extra pegs,
there would be no question. If I were making a car, I'd toss in A/C
and a steering wheel cover, no problem. But I wouldn't toss in a free
bookcase or an extra car. Sometimes just making the customer feel
like they got a little extra goes a long way.

On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 01:05:36 GMT, Vidkid26 video city@my video.com
wrote:

I've read all the posts in response to "Are you supposed tip the truck
driver", about 90 so far.

I would like to ask a question.

First of all let me clarify a couple of things things. A freight
company is a business to business operation, that is based on the
premiss that each location has a freight dock. That is the way their
tariffs are structured. The freight is loaded onto the truck at point
A. buy the shipper, and offloaded at point B by the consignee. That is
why a trailer is at the height of a standard freight dock. This applies
if the freight is 1 lb. or a truckload. If no dock is available at
either end, a charge may be applied if it is necessary to use other
mechanical means(lift-gate,forklift) that the shipper or consignee do
not provide.

A freight company makes its money by selling service. It has no
tangible product to sell. It has different levels of service just like
a table saw has a number of levels of options you may purchase, and are
priced accordingly. These levels being, if it's a residence, if the
freight requires a lift-gate,or requires being moved to a location
other that adjacent to the trailer. These are three different options
that may be purchased by the shipper or consignee, just like a upgraded
fence or mobile base on a table saw. These extra services come with
costs involved and charges are assessed to recover them and make a
profit. Thats why they are in business

Question.
If you were an employer and your employee gave away a upgraded fence,
mobile base, or some other item that you did not authorize, would you
consider that theft? An if so would you consider a truck driver who
performed a service that was not authorized, or paid for; theft ?



In your hypotheitical - yes.
However, when New Penn called to say that my latest shipment was ready
for delivery I asked if the driver could help me get it to the garage.
The shipper responded with something like....*sure as long as he is
not running behind schedule....*
Thus, at least in NP's case, they know that a delivery going to a
non-freight-dock location will require help.
Further, I assume that the management of the shipping Co's knows the
drivers perform this service at non-dock locations, and, that they
pick up a few bucks for it.

Well, 'Vidkid26' . . . {Which is a very telling appellation, I might add},

I've read all the responses to your billet-doux. Rather then an 'answer', my
first thoughts were 'questions'. Has this person ever 'worked for a living -
especially anything that required manual labor, or any kind of actual
physical labor ? Has this person ever bought anything that required 'truck
delivery' and read the 'fine print' on the advert, documents, or 'on-line' ?

While I can only surmise at the first, I'm a little more confident about the
second. Most physically large & heavy items that I purchase . . . I try to
get, locally. I will go and get them, myself. Baring 'home appliances', I
have only had to purchase two items that were 'Common Carrier' shipments -
the 'Grizzly' Table-Top Drill Press {purchased direct from them}, and the
'JET' Bandsaw {purchased from Amazon}. Due to their advertising, plus having
no specific indication of separation between 'Commercial' and 'Retail'
sales, the preponderance of their sales are to residences. Unless YOU go to
THEIR facility {sometimes not even allowed, as in 'Drop Ship' orders} YOU
WILL pay for 'truck shipment'. Without getting into the nuances of the
legalities of 'F.O.B.', . . . 'Shipment shall be via Common Carrier' means
the trucking company, or companies - the item can be 'trans-shipped' through
several before it reaches you, most convenient to THEM. There is also some
little wording like 'Curb Delivery' to indicate where their responsibility
ends.

In one of the cases, the truck didn't even have a 'lift gate'. {Which was
actually an advantage - I didn't have to bend over and pick-up the crate } I
squatted with my back to the trailer, the driver slid the carton onto my
shoulder, and I 'humped it' up the drive to my shop behind the house. In the
second case, the Bandsaw, the driver lowered the pallet to the street. After
he left, I cut the steel banding, and used my 'Harbor Freight Handtruck' to
move the individual cartons to the shop. Agreed, that was a couple of years
ago . . . I was only 60 at the time.

Just as a 'by-the-by', I remember ordering something, many years ago, that
had to be delivered by truck. When it arrived, I was notified that I had to
go to the trucking terminal {from the suburbs, all the way across, to the
'other side' of Philadelphia}to pick it up.

No matter what they call that mind-numbing crap on TV . . . your LIVING in
REALITY.

Regards,
Ron Magen
Backyard Boatshop

"Vidkid26" video city@my video.com wrote in message
news:2006081318053616807-videocity@myvideocom...
I've read all the posts in response to "Are you supposed tip the truck
driver", about 90 so far.

SNIP

"Vidkid26" video city@my video.com wrote in message
news:2006081318053616807-videocity@myvideocom...
I've read all the posts in response to "Are you supposed tip the truck
driver", about 90 so far.



Question.
If you were an employer and your employee gave away a upgraded fence,
mobile base, or some other item that you did not authorize, would you
consider that theft? An if so would you consider a truck driver who
performed a service that was not authorized, or paid for; theft ?




Another situation to consider. If the freight company driver helps you
unload into your garage that is often going to be cheaper for the freight
company rather than have to return it to the shipper or to take it back to
the terminal. Until the freight has been signed for, the package is still
the freight company's responsibility. The sooner they get rid of the
package the sooner they get to move on to the next customer.

Another consideration, I worked for a wholesale distributor and we often
would receive 2 full trailers from the freight company and one truck would
be waiting for the other to leave. The trailers would be so full that there
would be no room for a pallet jack. We would lift the first 2 skids off of
the truck with a fork lift then we sat OUR pallet jack on the trailer so
that the driver could move the load to the end of the trailer. With out the
use of our pallet jack the driver would have to break down the pallets as
very often they would weigh well over 1,000 pounds. Lending out the pallet
jack to move the skids saved the freight company time and effort.
Basically it is a two way street situation. Sometimes the freight company
gets help and some times they should go the extra step for that residential
customer that paid premium charges to get his freight.

It should boil down to common since however I realize that some labor unions
take that out of the equation as company profits are not of their concern.